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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2021 13:22:02 GMT
Very simple Manager tries to boost players confidence Sees that doesn't work and gets rid Nothing odd at all But but but..... .....that’s no fun..... ....we demand conspiracy theories!!! No, not a conspiracy theory. I just think they both really liked him and then he was just the one others wanted to so he left. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's annoying. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2021 13:23:22 GMT
Naive post alert.... Surely to God they can't just cancel it without paying? |
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2021 13:24:27 GMT
I think they basically saw him like Kevin Phillips did - someone with a reasonable goals-per-minute ratio early on at Wolves and MK Dons who we'd spunked £12m on and thought 'Jesus, we're going to have to try and make this work, there must be something to work with'.
Then realised there really wasn't much, so were open to shift him as his early career meant he still had a semblance of a reputation with others who thought there was something to work with.... until they too discovered there wasn't...
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Post by scfc75 on Jan 4, 2021 13:27:02 GMT
What annoys me about Vokes is that he was or he certainly looked it. 8m always seemed insane but there's no way he should have been as much of a disaster as he has been. I would love to have been watching him properly for Burnley to see if this was the bloke we signed. Because is there a redeemable feature? I think two things have changed dramatically with him. The first is positional and awareness, when you watch him off the ball he's not looking for pockets of space and is found routine ambling back from offside positions. He certainly doesn't press or keep in that line as he did at Burnley. Second we are not playing early balls into the near post and he's making fewer runs to that area. When he's central he just gets out defended. He's best either back or near post inside the penalty area in a flat 442 imo. Accounting for age look at the nature of these goals, especially the crosses, running across the flight of the ball and 6yd tap ins. I think he's past running on now, I'll forgive him that. He’s certainly lost what ability he had to find space and get headers on target. A good 70% of those goals were really well placed headers. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 4, 2021 13:28:09 GMT
But but but..... .....that’s no fun..... ....we demand conspiracy theories!!! No, not a conspiracy theory. I just think they both really liked him and then he was just the one others wanted to so he left. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's annoying. I wasn’t referring to you in particular just the general pattern on here where we like to create stuff. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2021 13:28:53 GMT
I think two things have changed dramatically with him. The first is positional and awareness, when you watch him off the ball he's not looking for pockets of space and is found routine ambling back from offside positions. He certainly doesn't press or keep in that line as he did at Burnley. Second we are not playing early balls into the near post and he's making fewer runs to that area. When he's central he just gets out defended. He's best either back or near post inside the penalty area in a flat 442 imo. Accounting for age look at the nature of these goals, especially the crosses, running across the flight of the ball and 6yd tap ins. I think he's past running on now, I'll forgive him that. He’s certainly lost what ability he had to find space and get headers on target. A good 70% of those goals were really well placed headers. Our crossing is woeful though. And we don't do it often enough. Not to defend him but it is something that pisses me off and something we need to improve. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2021 13:29:42 GMT
Naive post alert.... Surely to God they can't just cancel it without paying? Suppose it depends what was agreed? If there isn't a break clause, they can't unilaterally send him back, can they? Notice there was similar talk in Turkey yesterday with Etebo - and Galatasaray supposedly asking his agent to negotiate with us "to end the loan at the lowest financial cost to them possible" |
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Post by scfc75 on Jan 4, 2021 13:30:40 GMT
Naive post alert.... Surely to God they can't just cancel it without paying? Well contractually no, but if we think there’s a chance he can fill a Campbell-sized hole, maybe we would come to some sort of agreement to forego any outstanding fee and have him back? Could be cheaper to get Benny back and lose the fee than have to pay to loan somebody else in?! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2021 13:30:42 GMT
No, not a conspiracy theory. I just think they both really liked him and then he was just the one others wanted to so he left. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's annoying. I wasn’t referring to you in particular just the general pattern on here where we like to create stuff. Maybe. But I remember one I was slated for (shock horror) that Kevin Cruickshank basically backed up in a recent interview about Ramadan. |
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Post by moon on Jan 4, 2021 13:31:31 GMT
What annoys me about Vokes is that he was or he certainly looked it. 8m always seemed insane but there's no way he should have been as much of a disaster as he has been. I would love to have been watching him properly for Burnley to see if this was the bloke we signed. Because is there a redeemable feature? I think two things have changed dramatically with him. The first is positional and awareness, when you watch him off the ball he's not looking for pockets of space and is found routine ambling back from offside positions. He certainly doesn't press or keep in that line as he did at Burnley. Second we are not playing early balls into the near post and he's making fewer runs to that area. When he's central he just gets out defended. He's best either back or near post inside the penalty area in a flat 442 imo. Accounting for age look at the nature of these goals, especially the crosses, running across the flight of the ball and 6yd tap ins. I think he's past running on now, I'll forgive him that. That's a nice highlights reel to be fair. We saw a little bit of his quality in the air when he joined and he seemed to be one of those players who managed to grab a goal given a few chances, he hasn't looked anything like that this season though and he has had plenty of chances.
I think you're right about 4-4-2, partnered with a smaller quicker striker and two decent wide midfielders and we might see something closer to the Vokes of old, but I can't see us playing 4-4-2 any time soon, and I think we're better off finding a replacement rather than changing the way we play to suit an ageing striker who looks to have lost that extra yard of pace and is in terrible form.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jan 4, 2021 13:31:38 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 4, 2021 13:34:04 GMT
He’s certainly lost what ability he had to find space and get headers on target. A good 70% of those goals were really well placed headers. Our crossing is woeful though. And we don't do it often enough. Not to defend him but it is something that pisses me off and something we need to improve. I don't think peak form Pennant and Etherington would make much difference to Sam Vokes production. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 4, 2021 13:50:13 GMT
I wasn’t referring to you in particular just the general pattern on here where we like to create stuff. Maybe. But I remember one I was slated for (shock horror) that Kevin Cruickshank basically backed up in a recent interview about Ramadan. What was that? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2021 13:53:54 GMT
Maybe. But I remember one I was slated for (shock horror) that Kevin Cruickshank basically backed up in a recent interview about Ramadan. What was that? That he wasn't injured, Hughes just didn't rate him and wanted to coach the flamboyancy out of him. 3 days later after he was meant to have been injured, he played for the u23s despite the insistence he was out for weeks. The Cruikshank basically said that Hughes wanted to train shape and what not into him. Which is a farce because that skill was Ramadan and actually worked. Take that away and he became a body. It's a bit like with Verlinden now, I just wish people would say MON doesn't rate him rather than defend the manager at all costs. Because I disagree with him but it makes more sense the shit being spouted and I would say is the truth. |
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Jan 4, 2021 13:56:39 GMT
If Benny the Boy is coming back from Turkey....then who the hell would fancy him on loan instead?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 4, 2021 13:58:42 GMT
Maybe. But I remember one I was slated for (shock horror) that Kevin Cruickshank basically backed up in a recent interview about Ramadan. What was that? But isn’t that what managers do? Coach players? Fit them into a system? Good managers do it well and get more right than wrong. Bad managers don’t. But a player is also a personality. And they’re all different and need managing in different ways. Again some managers are good at that, some aren’t. MON isn’t going to get everything right. But right now I think the evidence suggests he’s getting more right than wrong. I’m happy to trust him on Verlinden even though I’d at least like to see him given a chance. |
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Post by callas12 on Jan 4, 2021 14:07:10 GMT
Some strikers just hit it off at certain clubs and not others, it's bizarre how it happens but sadly it does. Stein came to Stoke from Oxford as they couldn't get a tune out of him & look how he fitted in with us straight away, we never looked back. Fuller came to us after scoring 10x goals in total of 62 games for Pompey & Southampton where he was deemed surplus to requirements. Again look how impacted things at Stoke & became to many a club legend just as Stein was. Torres is another high profile example, firing on all cylinders at Liverpool, went to Chelsea & simply lost his goal scoring ability over night.
Whilst in no way am I directly comparing Vokes or Afobe to either Stein, Fuller or Torres, but it just goes to highlight that as a striker, you can be a star at one club, & deemed a failure at another very quickly. Vokes is still adored by the Burnley fan base, as is Afobe by Wolves & you can appreciate why after looking at their times with them clubs.
It just hasn't worked out with us for either Vokes or Afobe & there comes a time where club & player have to come to terms with this & move on to pastures new.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 14:18:38 GMT
sounds like turkish clubs are running out of money due to the covid19 and they want to weasel out of their contract, so they don't have to pay the players.
fuck 'em.
can't stand a single thing about that country. The place, the clubs, everything, fucking shit hole.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 14:20:30 GMT
Some strikers just hit it off at certain clubs and not others, it's bizarre how it happens but sadly it does. Stein came to Stoke from Oxford as they couldn't get a tune out of him & look how he fitted in with us straight away, we never looked back. Fuller came to us after scoring 10x goals in total of 62 games for Pompey & Southampton where he was deemed surplus to requirements. Again look how impacted things at Stoke & became to many a club legend just as Stein was. Torres is another high profile example, firing on all cylinders at Liverpool, went to Chelsea & simply lost his goal scoring ability over night. Whilst in no way am I directly comparing Vokes or Afobe to either Stein, Fuller or Torres, but it just goes to highlight that as a striker, you can be a star at one club, & deemed a failure at another very quickly. Vokes is still adored by the Burnley fan base, as is Afobe by Wolves & you can appreciate why after looking at their times with them clubs. It just hasn't worked out with us for either Vokes or Afobe & there comes a time where club & player have to come to terms with this & move on to pastures new. I love Fuller but his goal records at Pompey and Southampton are better than they are for us. We certainly got far more of a tune out of him, but he's probably a bad comparison when you're talking about players who score at different rates for different clubs. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2021 14:30:41 GMT
www.fotomac.com.tr/video-haber/videoizle/yunus-emre-sel-afobe-ile-yollar-ayrilacakYunus Emre Sel, correspondent of Fotomaç Newspaper Trabzonspor, evaluated the latest developments in the burgundy-blue club in the Spor Gün Sel said that Afobe was conveyed by the management that she was not considered in the second half. Yunus Emre Sel announced that Afebe's contract would be terminated after negotiations with Stoke City..
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Post by bgreen13 on Jan 4, 2021 14:32:47 GMT
Another spanner in the works for getting players in.
I wish we’d stop dealing with Turkish clubs.
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Post by robscfc on Jan 4, 2021 14:32:59 GMT
www.fotomac.com.tr/video-haber/videoizle/yunus-emre-sel-afobe-ile-yollar-ayrilacakYunus Emre Sel, correspondent of Fotomaç Newspaper Trabzonspor, evaluated the latest developments in the burgundy-blue club in the Spor Gün Sel said that Afobe was conveyed by the management that she was not considered in the second half. Yunus Emre Sel announced that Afebe's contract would be terminated after negotiations with Stoke City.. So she is coming back! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 14:34:18 GMT
I'm desperate enough I'd happily have him back. Probably our best striker, which says more about the alternatives than it does about him tbf.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jan 4, 2021 14:34:23 GMT
So that fucks FFP up even more then if he's coming back?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2021 14:38:28 GMT
Wouldn't have thought we'd lose out financially (unless there was a specific break clause)
Or we could have just left him dangling in Turkey with his wages being paid by them?
If they were contractually obliged to pay X% of his wages until June, can't see why we'd let thm off the hook. So, if he is comnig back, you'd think we'd be extracting the full whack or close to it from them?
Maybe it's just a case of them wanting him off their hands to free up a space for someone else? Think Turkish teams are only allowed a certain number of non-Turkish players on their books?
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Post by neddy on Jan 4, 2021 14:38:46 GMT
Surely they have to pay his contract up to the end of the season! Which would mean if so we get him back at no cost?
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Post by peterpan1 on Jan 4, 2021 14:41:22 GMT
Gotta watch these Turks, not as daft as they look. They will be fully aware that Campbell is out for possibly the rest of the season.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 4, 2021 14:43:34 GMT
Surely they have to pay his contract up to the end of the season! Which would mean if so we get him back at no cost? Yeah - you'd think we wouldn't lose out financially - if it's true. Even we're not stupid enough to voluntarily pay his wages until June when we'd managed to wriggle out of it and someone else was on the hook for it |
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Post by neddy on Jan 4, 2021 14:48:23 GMT
Surely they have to pay his contract up to the end of the season! Which would mean if so we get him back at no cost? Yeah - you'd think we wouldn't lose out financially - if it's true. Even we're not stupid enough to voluntarily pay his wages until June when we'd managed to wriggle out of it and someone else was on the hook for it Not sure we could loan him to anyone else given the circumstance? |
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Post by mamasgloves on Jan 4, 2021 14:52:38 GMT
That he wasn't injured, Hughes just didn't rate him and wanted to coach the flamboyancy out of him. 3 days later after he was meant to have been injured, he played for the u23s despite the insistence he was out for weeks. The Cruikshank basically said that Hughes wanted to train shape and what not into him. Which is a farce because that skill was Ramadan and actually worked. Take that away and he became a body. It's a bit like with Verlinden now, I just wish people would say MON doesn't rate him rather than defend the manager at all costs. Because I disagree with him but it makes more sense the shit being spouted and I would say is the truth. What a load of shite  He was a showpony who could pull it off in Egypt but on arrival here it was painfully obvious he needing coaching in the basics of shape and off the ball movement/duties. If Hughes was the problem why is he currently plyinbg his trade at Pyramids FC and not one of the European giants? |
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