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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 7, 2020 18:16:14 GMT
In 2014 Soleimani was branded an " agent of terror" by a Canadian foreign minister.( see quote below) I'm not defending Trump, Let me make that clear... like most of us I wish that the assassination had not happened. ( and I'm in this post ignoring conspiracy theories, oil, colonial intentions etc) Just a general question.....if a country feels that a member of another country had a history of terrorism and planned further terrorism AND diplomatic efforts/ sanctions/ international " law" had failed is it ever justified for a country to take action similar to the United States? In other words can such action ever be justified ....or should USA have either…........ continued to " put up with it took no decisive action and pursued other solutions"( My question is how long do you do this for?)...Or should the US have declared war...to " legitimise" their action.... I'm NOT advocating anything, just asking the question. ....... Hindsight is a wonderful thing..... Would the assassination if Hitler in 1938 have been justified? "In December 2014 at the Manama Dialogue security summit, there was a sharp exchange of views between Canadian and Iranian participants over the role of Gen Soleimani. Canada's then-foreign minister, John Baird, branded him an "agent of terror in the region disguised as a hero" fighting IS." www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27883162As Kenneth R. Timmerman reveals in his new book, “Dark Forces,” Suleymani was even the shadowy figure behind the killing of Ambassador Christopher Stevens in Benghazi, Libya. He’s the Wizard of Oz of Iranian terror, the most dreaded and most effective terrorist alive nypost.com/2014/06/20/how-irans-spy-chief-paid-for-the-benghazi-attack/amp/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 7, 2020 18:17:43 GMT
Hopefully there aren't too many more killed in the funeral crush.
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Post by serpico on Jan 7, 2020 20:01:52 GMT
I was almost convinced that Trump was different than the others, that he was actually going to extricate the US (and by extension, the UK) out of the middle east quagmire, obviously thats not the case, he's just another military industrial complex stooge, he should have ordered US troops out on day 1! i wish Boris would do the same, bring them all back and put them on OUR border to properly police who's coming in.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 23:25:37 GMT
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 7, 2020 23:47:15 GMT
And there we have it. Iran promised retaliation and they’ve delivered. Will Trump follow through with his 52 targets threat? I think we’re about to find out very soon.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 7, 2020 23:50:55 GMT
It’s hard to see how this works out anything but badly for the US.
Iran will be able to attack with impunity US bases in Iran, because the Iranian Government (at least the Shi’a part of it) is quite happy for that to happen. Even if the US decide to respond, they won’t be able to match what the Iranians will do. Not because they have superior fire power (they don’t of course) but because they value life so much less than the US does. Iran would happily see 10s of thousands of deaths of their people to humiliate the US. The US, same as all democracies, will baulk at tens of deaths.
The US is a right pickle methinks.
Is this finally the moment when Trump’s hubris pulls him down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 23:52:44 GMT
It’s hard to see how this works out anything but badly for the US.Iran will be able to attack with impunity US bases in Iran, because the Iranian Government (at least the Shi’a part of it) is quite happy for that to happen. Even if the US decide to respond, they won’t be able to match what the Iranians will do. Not because they have superior fire power (they don’t of course) but because they value life so much less than the US does. Iran would happily see 10s of thousands of deaths of their people to humiliate the US. The US, same as all democracies, will baulk at tens of deaths. The US is a right pickle methinks. Is this finally the moment when Trump’s hubris pulls him down. And the UK by default if we're not careful.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 23:58:36 GMT
Strap yourself in folks, things could move pretty quickly....
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 8, 2020 0:01:53 GMT
I see apparently our military has been put on 48 hour or less standby after the missile attack, also apparently 5 missiles launched on Taji and Erbil.
It’s just going to get messy isn’t it? As if it isn’t messy enough already.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 8, 2020 0:05:04 GMT
Strap yourself in folks, things could move pretty quickly.... The Iraqis don’t care about how much damage the US do. They know they can do more than enough damage in return. Even if the ratio is 100 - 1 in favour of the US that will still be too high a price for the US.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Jan 8, 2020 0:15:22 GMT
Here we go again! We (the U.S.) will get the shit kicked out of us by farmers. And military contractors will make trillions of dollars off taxpayers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 0:20:52 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 8, 2020 4:58:44 GMT
Here we go again! We (the U.S.) will get the shit kicked out of us by farmers. And military contractors will make trillions of dollars off taxpayers. There's no profit in peace.
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Post by mattador78 on Jan 8, 2020 6:38:58 GMT
And another 737 just fell out of the sky in Iran
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 6:59:03 GMT
I was wondering why Trump hadn't been assassinated yet after all his bluster about opposing the banks and wanting to extricate the US military from the middle east. Now we know why. He's just a good little stooge.
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Post by zerps on Jan 8, 2020 7:47:54 GMT
She’s nice, but more importantly Iran is about to become a car park.
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Post by serpico on Jan 8, 2020 8:07:41 GMT
Such an odd situation, it’s now just a round of tit for tat attacks with neither side wanting a full scale war... whats the sodding point ?
And isn’t it a bit odd that Iran launched an attack with a volley of missiles but apparently nobody got killed ?
There is a theory kicking around that all this is a bit of a show, that trump had back channel talks with the Iranians and part of a deal they came to was the US knocking suliamani off because the Iran regime wanted him gone due to his increasing influence and popularity, probably bunk but let’s see if Iran “suddenly come to the table”
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Post by bathstoke on Jan 8, 2020 8:08:46 GMT
She’s nice, but more importantly Iran is about to become a car park. I don’t think it will. This has all the signs of a choreographed response. I wonder whether Hassan Rouhani phoned Trump to confirm that the missiles were being sent... The car has been parked. Await Trumps confirmation. 2nd term in the bag...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 8, 2020 8:14:41 GMT
Such an odd situation, it’s now just a round of tit for tat attacks with neither side wanting a full scale war... whats the sodding point ? And isn’t it a bit odd that Iran launched an attack with a volley of missiles but apparently nobody got killed ? There is a theory kicking around that all this is a bit of a show, that trump had back channel talks with the Iranians and part of a deal they came to was the US knocking suliamani off because the Iran regime wanted him gone due to his increasing influence and popularity, probably bunk but let’s see if Iran “suddenly come to the table” There's bound to be conspiracy theories Serpico and I don't believe that the general public really know what is going on and what the thinking is. I guess most of us hope that this is the visible end of this particular episode without escalation. But I still think that problems obviously exist moving forward. If Iran is saying that thus " concludes" it fine...and it may be the Trump accepts this as a way out.....but for me the issue is.... what is America supposed to do if Iran ( and others) continue attacks on America, the West and Israel BY PROXY ( it wasn't us). Is the American assassination a form of a marker. And of course Iran will point at the further interference of America in the Middle East.
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Post by zerps on Jan 8, 2020 8:18:28 GMT
She’s nice, but more importantly Iran is about to become a car park. I don’t think it will. This has all the signs of a choreographed response. I wonder whether Hassan Rouhani phoned Trump to confirm that the missiles were being sent... The car has been parked. Await Trumps confirmation. 2nd term in the bag... Yeah, it’s being reported that the bases were warned in advance because they contain iraqi troops.
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Post by serpico on Jan 8, 2020 8:32:14 GMT
Such an odd situation, it’s now just a round of tit for tat attacks with neither side wanting a full scale war... whats the sodding point ? And isn’t it a bit odd that Iran launched an attack with a volley of missiles but apparently nobody got killed ? There is a theory kicking around that all this is a bit of a show, that trump had back channel talks with the Iranians and part of a deal they came to was the US knocking suliamani off because the Iran regime wanted him gone due to his increasing influence and popularity, probably bunk but let’s see if Iran “suddenly come to the table” There's bound to be conspiracy theories Serpico and I don't believe that the general public really know what is going on and what the thinking is. I guess most of us hope that this is the visible end of this particular episode without escalation. But I still think that problems obviously exist moving forward. If Iran is saying that thus " concludes" it fine...and it may be the Trump accepts this as a way out.....but for me the issue is.... what is America supposed to do if Iran ( and others) continue attacks on America, the West and Israel BY PROXY ( it wasn't us). Is the American assassination a form of a marker. And of course Iran will point at the further interference of America in the Middle East. That might be why the Iranian mullahs wanted suliamani knocked off, they couldn’t do a deal with the US whilst he was around as he’d oppose it and then Iran might have had some kind of civil uprising with suliamani heading a coup faction ? ... makes some sense, whether it’s true or not is another matter, probably not. But why was he in Iraq and who told the Americans he was at the airport ? I know the US have some sophisticated surveillance systems but they probably still need on the ground intelligence and informants tracking these people.
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 8, 2020 9:37:24 GMT
I don’t think it will. This has all the signs of a choreographed response. I wonder whether Hassan Rouhani phoned Trump to confirm that the missiles were being sent... The car has been parked. Await Trumps confirmation. 2nd term in the bag... Yeah, it’s being reported that the bases were warned in advance because they contain iraqi troops. That seems plausible as it's been reported Iran was told they can retaliate without escalating if they kept it localised to allow them to save face.
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Post by henry on Jan 8, 2020 10:16:30 GMT
Such an odd situation, it’s now just a round of tit for tat attacks with neither side wanting a full scale war... whats the sodding point ? And isn’t it a bit odd that Iran launched an attack with a volley of missiles but apparently nobody got killed ? There is a theory kicking around that all this is a bit of a show, that trump had back channel talks with the Iranians and part of a deal they came to was the US knocking suliamani off because the Iran regime wanted him gone due to his increasing influence and popularity, probably bunk but let’s see if Iran “suddenly come to the table” How come the missiles weren’t stopped by the Patriot system aswell?
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Post by salopstick on Jan 8, 2020 10:20:51 GMT
There's bound to be conspiracy theories Serpico and I don't believe that the general public really know what is going on and what the thinking is. I guess most of us hope that this is the visible end of this particular episode without escalation. But I still think that problems obviously exist moving forward. If Iran is saying that thus " concludes" it fine...and it may be the Trump accepts this as a way out.....but for me the issue is.... what is America supposed to do if Iran ( and others) continue attacks on America, the West and Israel BY PROXY ( it wasn't us). Is the American assassination a form of a marker. And of course Iran will point at the further interference of America in the Middle East. That might be why the Iranian mullahs wanted suliamani knocked off, they couldn’t do a deal with the US whilst he was around as he’d oppose it and then Iran might have had some kind of civil uprising with suliamani heading a coup faction ? ... makes some sense, whether it’s true or not is another matter, probably not. But why was he in Iraq and who told the Americans he was at the airport ? I know the US have some sophisticated surveillance systems but they probably still need on the ground intelligence and informants tracking these people. My enemy’s enemy is my friend
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Post by thisisouryear on Jan 8, 2020 11:14:08 GMT
No doubt Trump will come pushing his chest out giving it the biggun. He's a prick who has made the world feel much less safe and the sooner he is gone the better.
Which way will it go? Who knows, but if it kicks off you can guarantee all the refugees will be making their way to Europe.
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Post by lordb on Jan 8, 2020 12:12:37 GMT
Here we go again! We (the U.S.) will get the shit kicked out of us by farmers. And military contractors will make trillions of dollars off taxpayers. There's no profit in peace. The Swiss do allright
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 8, 2020 12:39:11 GMT
There's no profit in peace. The Swiss do allright Amongst the neutrality it's only been invaded once ever. If they don't feel threatened how can they whip up nationalistic fervour to cover internal corruption? They must be crackers
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jan 8, 2020 12:39:18 GMT
There's no profit in peace. The Swiss do allright Well somebody has to look after the money made from war.
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Post by lordb on Jan 8, 2020 12:58:58 GMT
Well somebody has to look after the money made from war. indeed
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 8, 2020 14:21:09 GMT
Seems to be calming down a little hopefully. If nothing else happens I reckon Donald will be well pleased with that outcome...one major target down for the cost of a coat of paint.
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