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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 15:11:36 GMT
I’m not sure Davey is saying ignorance. He is saying he failed to meet with Bates until a few months after he first contacted him, which he acknowledges was wrong. He then raised concerns with the Post Office who gave firm rebuttals which turned out to be lies. We know now he shouldn’t have believed the Post Office but as he rightly says, until the whistleblower came forward there was no actual evidence. What Davey is saying in his article is that for a quasi public body like Royal Mail at the time, there should have requirements for a minister on the board. It was set up incorrectly. At least he wasn’t networking with the at fault CEO and Fujitsu directors like the tories were at the time! No he didn't. He just actively worked for the law firm prosecuting the Post Masters at the time. Sorry, are you suggesting that Davey worked on the case against the post masters? Can you provide your source for that? Are you somehow suggesting the law firm instructed by the Post Office should have refused to act for them? On what basis under the SRA code of conduct allows them to discriminate?
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Post by Northy on Feb 1, 2024 16:58:11 GMT
He's a typical legal weasel. His excuses don't wash and Alan Bates' version of this regarding Davey's ignorance and attitude when they met is the version I'm buying. I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal. Simon Blagden wasn't the Fujitsu CEO that is involved in this issue, he was a non executive chairman of Fujitsu Telecommunications a basically different company who did things like rolling out fibre networks and communication hubs around the country, they don't exist anymore. He now works for Nadine Dorris's department in the rollout of super fast broadband.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 1, 2024 17:27:45 GMT
I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal. Simon Blagden wasn't the Fujitsu CEO that is involved in this issue, he was a non executive chairman of Fujitsu Telecommunications a basically different company who did things like rolling out fibre networks and communication hubs around the country, they don't exist anymore. He now works for Nadine Dorris's department in the rollout of super fast broadband. According to PE, Blagden was paid by Fujitsu Services Ltd. which held the Horizon contract.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 17:43:41 GMT
No he didn't. He just actively worked for the law firm prosecuting the Post Masters at the time. Sorry, are you suggesting that Davey worked on the case against the post masters? Can you provide your source for that? Are you somehow suggesting the law firm instructed by the Post Office should have refused to act for them? On what basis under the SRA code of conduct allows them to discriminate? I'm saying in his position in government he should have been more aware of who he was working for. Read the article I linked, it's contained in there.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 18:04:04 GMT
I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal. Simon Blagden wasn't the Fujitsu CEO that is involved in this issue, he was a non executive chairman of Fujitsu Telecommunications a basically different company who did things like rolling out fibre networks and communication hubs around the country, they don't exist anymore. He now works for Nadine Dorris's department in the rollout of super fast broadband. Thanks. Thankfully Nadine Dorries no longer runs a government department!
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 18:06:54 GMT
Sorry, are you suggesting that Davey worked on the case against the post masters? Can you provide your source for that? Are you somehow suggesting the law firm instructed by the Post Office should have refused to act for them? On what basis under the SRA code of conduct allows them to discriminate? I'm saying in his position in government he should have been more aware of who he was working for. Read the article I linked, it's contained in there. Working for!? Ever heard of client confidentiality? Lawyers have loads of different clients. The law firm would be shut down if it revealed all its clients to any third party.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 19:52:07 GMT
I'm saying in his position in government he should have been more aware of who he was working for. Read the article I linked, it's contained in there. Working for!? Ever heard of client confidentiality? Lawyers have loads of different clients. The law firm would be shut down if it revealed all its clients to any third party. In fact the greedy prick shouldn't be working a second job as a minister, he should be serving the public. Disingenuous cunt is the best way I can describe him and his ilk.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 20:43:53 GMT
Working for!? Ever heard of client confidentiality? Lawyers have loads of different clients. The law firm would be shut down if it revealed all its clients to any third party. In fact the greedy prick shouldn't be working a second job as a minister, he should be serving the public. Disingenuous cunt is the best way I can describe him and his ilk. You wouldn’t be saying that if he were a tory or labour politician. If you actually want to know more about the type of person Davey is, read this: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/16/we-didnt-show-we-cared-enough-we-wont-make-that-mistake-twice-ed-davey-on-love-loss-and-the-lib-demsIf after reading that you still think he is a “greedy prick” or “disingenuous cunt” then you have no heart. If you are unhappy about the second job, criticise the rules that allow that, not Davey himself. Most politicians have second jobs. Davey attends Parliament and votes a lot. Others treat being a MP as their second job.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 21:31:29 GMT
In fact the greedy prick shouldn't be working a second job as a minister, he should be serving the public. Disingenuous cunt is the best way I can describe him and his ilk. You wouldn’t be saying that if he were a tory or labour politician. If you actually want to know more about the type of person Davey is, read this: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/16/we-didnt-show-we-cared-enough-we-wont-make-that-mistake-twice-ed-davey-on-love-loss-and-the-lib-demsIf after reading that you still think he is a “greedy prick” or “disingenuous cunt” then you have no heart. If you are unhappy about the second job, criticise the rules that allow that, not Davey himself. Most politicians have second jobs. Davey attends Parliament and votes a lot. Others treat being a MP as their second job. I would. They all are. I'm the heartless cunt, not the bloke who wouldn't do his job and listen to many cogent arguments from Alan Bates, alright then 🙄
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Post by Northy on Feb 2, 2024 7:53:10 GMT
Simon Blagden wasn't the Fujitsu CEO that is involved in this issue, he was a non executive chairman of Fujitsu Telecommunications a basically different company who did things like rolling out fibre networks and communication hubs around the country, they don't exist anymore. He now works for Nadine Dorris's department in the rollout of super fast broadband. According to PE, Blagden was paid by Fujitsu Services Ltd. which held the Horizon contract. They would be the parent company and would pay them, his position would have been focused all on the communications business, most networks and BT centres were installed by them. Most things you do online, banking, shopping etc will go through one of their systems, they used to advertise as 95% of UK business goes through their systems. I can't remember who bought that arm out, may have been Virgin, who are currently digging up all the pavements in our village installing fibre cables.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 2, 2024 7:57:32 GMT
I would. They all are. I'm the heartless cunt, not the bloke who wouldn't do his job and listen to many cogent arguments from Alan Bates, alright then 🙄 He did listen to Alan Bates. Not immediately, but he did. He then wrote to the Post Office who lied in their response. What was he supposed to do then? Accuse the Post Office of lying based entirely on one person’s word and no actual evidence? You have seen how hard it was for the post masters to get any justice and be believed and that is because the Post Office covered it up, as did Fujitsu. To blame Davey and nobody else shows you have a real personal issue with him. You won’t be critical of Tories networking with the conspirators at the Post Office and Fujitsu in 2014, when it was known by many that something wasn’t right. But are quick to be extremely critical of Davey, who ignored a letter in 2010 (a mistake he acknowledges) and then met with Bates, listened and wrote to the Post Office about it a few months later. You are then entirely unfairly critical of Davey because he did work for a law firm who happened to have the Post Office as a client. Davey is part of a large group of MPs that didn’t do enough. Yes, you are heartless (I never said cunt!) if you read that article and still think Davey is the things you say he is.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 2, 2024 8:00:40 GMT
I would. They all are. I'm the heartless cunt, not the bloke who wouldn't do his job and listen to many cogent arguments from Alan Bates, alright then 🙄 He did listen to Alan Bates. Not immediately, but he did. He then wrote to the Post Office who lied in their response. What was he supposed to do then? Accuse the Post Office of lying based entirely on one person’s word and no actual evidence? You have seen how hard it was for the post masters to get any justice and be believed and that is because the Post Office covered it up, as did Fujitsu. To blame Davey and nobody else shows you have a real personal issue with him. You won’t be critical of Tories networking with the conspirators at the Post Office and Fujitsu in 2014, when it was known by many that something wasn’t right. But are quick to be extremely critical of Davey, who ignored a letter in 2010 (a mistake he acknowledges) and then met with Bates, listened and wrote to the Post Office about it a few months later. You are then entirely unfairly critical of Davey because he did work for a law firm who happened to have the Post Office as a client. Davey is part of a large group of MPs that didn’t do enough. Yes, you are heartless (I never said cunt!) if you read that article and still think Davey is the things you say he is. A lot of unnecessary personal hatred here Oggy, in my opinion
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 2, 2024 8:27:38 GMT
I would. They all are. I'm the heartless cunt, not the bloke who wouldn't do his job and listen to many cogent arguments from Alan Bates, alright then 🙄 He did listen to Alan Bates. Not immediately, but he did. He then wrote to the Post Office who lied in their response. What was he supposed to do then? Accuse the Post Office of lying based entirely on one person’s word and no actual evidence? You have seen how hard it was for the post masters to get any justice and be believed and that is because the Post Office covered it up, as did Fujitsu. To blame Davey and nobody else shows you have a real personal issue with him. You won’t be critical of Tories networking with the conspirators at the Post Office and Fujitsu in 2014, when it was known by many that something wasn’t right. But are quick to be extremely critical of Davey, who ignored a letter in 2010 (a mistake he acknowledges) and then met with Bates, listened and wrote to the Post Office about it a few months later. You are then entirely unfairly critical of Davey because he did work for a law firm who happened to have the Post Office as a client. Davey is part of a large group of MPs that didn’t do enough. Yes, you are heartless (I never said cunt!) if you read that article and still think Davey is the things you say he is. Davey is the only one who's trying to excuse himself and has been given a significant platform to do so. If you think I'm not critical of any of the Tories/Labour whoever the bossy, officious twats are then you don't see many of the posts or links I'll add to the odd political thread. I've zero respect for pretty much most of them. With respect to this issue regarding Davey my attitude towards him his attitude and response as a human being to the little man in need, not because he leads the Liberal Democrats. The lack of empathy towards ordinary people, until it suits them to display it for their own purposes, from politicians of all parties is sickening.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 2, 2024 9:43:12 GMT
He did listen to Alan Bates. Not immediately, but he did. He then wrote to the Post Office who lied in their response. What was he supposed to do then? Accuse the Post Office of lying based entirely on one person’s word and no actual evidence? You have seen how hard it was for the post masters to get any justice and be believed and that is because the Post Office covered it up, as did Fujitsu. To blame Davey and nobody else shows you have a real personal issue with him. You won’t be critical of Tories networking with the conspirators at the Post Office and Fujitsu in 2014, when it was known by many that something wasn’t right. But are quick to be extremely critical of Davey, who ignored a letter in 2010 (a mistake he acknowledges) and then met with Bates, listened and wrote to the Post Office about it a few months later. You are then entirely unfairly critical of Davey because he did work for a law firm who happened to have the Post Office as a client. Davey is part of a large group of MPs that didn’t do enough. Yes, you are heartless (I never said cunt!) if you read that article and still think Davey is the things you say he is. A lot of unnecessary personal hatred here Oggy, in my opinion I’m not the one calling a person who lost both his parents before he was a teenager, then his grandfather (who then had raised him) at 18, who has cared for his severely disabled son (after caring for his mother with dementia when he was 10) and then his disabled wife who has MS and fought for support for carers his whole career, a “greedy prick”, a “disingenuous cunt” and who “lacking empathy for ordinary people” though, am I?
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 2, 2024 9:44:32 GMT
He did listen to Alan Bates. Not immediately, but he did. He then wrote to the Post Office who lied in their response. What was he supposed to do then? Accuse the Post Office of lying based entirely on one person’s word and no actual evidence? You have seen how hard it was for the post masters to get any justice and be believed and that is because the Post Office covered it up, as did Fujitsu. To blame Davey and nobody else shows you have a real personal issue with him. You won’t be critical of Tories networking with the conspirators at the Post Office and Fujitsu in 2014, when it was known by many that something wasn’t right. But are quick to be extremely critical of Davey, who ignored a letter in 2010 (a mistake he acknowledges) and then met with Bates, listened and wrote to the Post Office about it a few months later. You are then entirely unfairly critical of Davey because he did work for a law firm who happened to have the Post Office as a client. Davey is part of a large group of MPs that didn’t do enough. Yes, you are heartless (I never said cunt!) if you read that article and still think Davey is the things you say he is. Davey is the only one who's trying to excuse himself and has been given a significant platform to do so. If you think I'm not critical of any of the Tories/Labour whoever the bossy, officious twats are then you don't see many of the posts or links I'll add to the odd political thread. I've zero respect for pretty much most of them. With respect to this issue regarding Davey my attitude towards him his attitude and response as a human being to the little man in need, not because he leads the Liberal Democrats. The lack of empathy towards ordinary people, until it suits them to display it for their own purposes, from politicians of all parties is sickening. He isn’t excusing himself. He admits fault. He apologises. Then he talks about how things should change to help protect against a similar scandal happening again. So the man who has fought harder than anyone else in Parliament for the needs of carers lacks empathy towards ordinary people!? I really think you should read the article about his personal life I posted. Once you do, you would certainly never say he lacks empathy towards ordinary people. Unless you are heartless.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 2, 2024 9:49:15 GMT
A lot of unnecessary personal hatred here Oggy, in my opinion I’m not the one calling a person who lost both his parents before he was a teenager, then his grandfather (who then had raised him) at 18, who has cared for his severely disabled son (after caring for his mother with dementia when he was 10) and then his disabled wife who has MS and fought for support for carers his whole career, a “greedy prick” and a “disingenuous cunt” though, am I? Equally wrong in my opinion. To be honest, it isn't worth getting so aggressive/heated on a message board. I don't think it will affect Davey much.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 2, 2024 10:11:34 GMT
I’m not the one calling a person who lost both his parents before he was a teenager, then his grandfather (who then had raised him) at 18, who has cared for his severely disabled son (after caring for his mother with dementia when he was 10) and then his disabled wife who has MS and fought for support for carers his whole career, a “greedy prick” and a “disingenuous cunt” though, am I? Equally wrong in my opinion. To be honest, it isn't worth getting so aggressive/heated on a message board. I don't think it will affect Davey much. I haven’t been aggressive or heated. But i guess that is subjective.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 10, 2024 23:02:27 GMT
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Post by phileetin on Feb 11, 2024 9:15:00 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Feb 11, 2024 9:29:34 GMT
Am I missing something? I can't see anything in that report that says they were subpostmasters?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 12, 2024 10:01:11 GMT
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Post by deeside2 on Feb 12, 2024 10:11:01 GMT
My wife was watching breakfast TV today and said that the Post Office are still prosecuting subpostmasters for errors due to Horizon.
One subpostmaster was interviewed who said she had recently been in the middle of a sale with a customer when the system crashed and when it rebooted it had completely changed the figures into a far larger amount. She had apparently taken over the post office from her late mother, who had also sold her jewellery to make up a previous shortfall/inaccuracy. She has now been prosecuted and the Post Office spokesperson said they were still confidant the system was "robust" !
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 12, 2024 19:49:05 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Feb 12, 2024 20:55:27 GMT
Shocking but unsurprising.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 13, 2024 7:05:39 GMT
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Post by Northy on Feb 13, 2024 16:33:11 GMT
You'd want them meetings at the appropriate place where it can be recorded/minuted not as a sideshow at some other event
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 14, 2024 14:59:30 GMT
You'd want them meetings at the appropriate place where it can be recorded/minuted not as a sideshow at some other event The meetings were minuted, that's how we know what was (or indeed wasn't) said.
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Post by metalhead on Feb 14, 2024 19:40:32 GMT
This is where Phil figures out that Royal Mail and Post Office aren't the same thing...
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Post by elystokie on Feb 15, 2024 14:53:13 GMT
I'm going to go right out on a limb and suggest that this post would never have been seen on here if the perpetrators names were Smith, Jones and Brown 🤔
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Post by deeside2 on Feb 15, 2024 17:30:16 GMT
I'm going to go right out on a limb and suggest that this post would never have been seen on here if the perpetrators names were Smith, Jones and Brown 🤔 I think it might be more to do with the fact that they've allegedly stolen £70m.
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