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Post by elystokie on Feb 15, 2024 17:32:11 GMT
I'm going to go right out on a limb and suggest that this post would never have been seen on here if the perpetrators names were Smith, Jones and Brown ð€ I think it might be more to do with the fact that they've allegedly stolen £70m. It isn't relevant to the thread, they weren't subpostmasters.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 18, 2024 0:03:55 GMT
Only just finally got round to watching this now. It's getting me so angry ð¡
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Post by maxplonk on Feb 18, 2024 9:19:13 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 9:52:04 GMT
This is an absolute scandal. The tory party actively trying to delay Post Office compensation payments until the next election so they can try and blame labour. Lots of talk on here about who is to blame. Well the tories donât care about any compensation. They want to play politics. In the meantime, the people whose lives have been ruined have to wait even longer for compensation payments if the tories get their way.
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 10:13:54 GMT
This is an absolute scandal. The tory party actively trying to delay Post Office compensation payments until the next election so they can try and blame labour. Lots of talk on here about who is to blame. Well the tories donât care about any compensation. They want to play politics. In the meantime, the people whose lives have been ruined have to wait even longer for compensation payments if the tories get their way. It's an absolute scandal that the Conservative party, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Post Office, Fujitsu, the Civil Service have allowed it to get this far..... apologies to any parties I've missed out.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 11:39:31 GMT
This is an absolute scandal. The tory party actively trying to delay Post Office compensation payments until the next election so they can try and blame labour. Lots of talk on here about who is to blame. Well the tories donât care about any compensation. They want to play politics. In the meantime, the people whose lives have been ruined have to wait even longer for compensation payments if the tories get their way. It's an absolute scandal that the Conservative party, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Post Office, Fujitsu, the Civil Service have allowed it to get this far..... apologies to any parties I've missed out. Yes. Only one party actively trying to delay compensation payments though.
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 11:52:57 GMT
It's an absolute scandal that the Conservative party, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Post Office, Fujitsu, the Civil Service have allowed it to get this far..... apologies to any parties I've missed out. Yes. Only one party actively trying to delay compensation payments though. Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 18, 2024 11:54:52 GMT
It's an absolute scandal that the Conservative party, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Post Office, Fujitsu, the Civil Service have allowed it to get this far..... apologies to any parties I've missed out. Yes. Only one party actively trying to delay compensation payments though. Indeed. And now we know why he was sacked so soon after being given the job, he simply wasn't prepared to play ball. At least there's a few souls left with a moral compass ... A former Post Office chair said he was told by a senior civil servant to stall compensation payouts to post office operators so that the government could âlimp intoâ the general election. Henry Staunton, who was sacked by the business secretary, Kemi Badenoch, last month amid anger over the Horizon scandal, said the request came soon after he took up the role in December 2022. He also alleged that Nick Read, the Post Office chief executive, tried in January to dissuade the government from proceeding with blanket exonerations for operators. In an interview with the Sunday Times, Staunton, 75, said the request to slow down compensation payouts appeared to be an attempt to reduce the governmentâs financial liability before the general election this year. âEarly on, I was told by a fairly senior person to stall on spend on compensation and on the replacement of Horizon, and to limp, in quotation marks â I did a file note on it â limp into the election,â Staunton said. âIt was not an anti-postmaster thing, it was just straight financials. I didnât ask, because I said âIâm having no part of it â Iâm not here to limp into the election, itâs not the right thing to do by postmasters.â The word âlimpâ gives you a snapshot of where they were.â
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 12:00:14 GMT
Yes. Only one party actively trying to delay compensation payments though. Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters Yes. Do you support the tories deliberately delaying compensation payments to those former postmasters? I donât. Thatâs why I commented on it.
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 15:34:42 GMT
Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters Yes. Do you support the tories deliberately delaying compensation payments to those former postmasters? I donât. Thatâs why I commented on it. Fuck the Tories are only a part of this story although like the rest above a major part I'm just trying to point out to you how one-eyed you are. Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 16:10:50 GMT
Yes. Do you support the tories deliberately delaying compensation payments to those former postmasters? I donât. Thatâs why I commented on it. Fuck the Tories are only a part of this story although like the rest above a major part I'm just trying to point out to you how one-eyed you are. Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters Yes, I have posted on multiple occasions about how badly they have been treated by almost everyone in power. They have been completely and utterly let down in so many ways and so many lives have been ruined as a result. It is an absolute travesty. It makes the fact that the tories have been trying to delay paying them compensation payments all the more deplorable. Or donât you care about that?
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 16:25:20 GMT
Fuck the Tories are only a part of this story although like the rest above a major part I'm just trying to point out to you how one-eyed you are. Are you remotely interested in the plight of these former Postmasters Yes, I have posted on multiple occasions about how badly they have been treated by almost everyone in power. They have been completely and utterly let down in so many ways and so many lives have been ruined as a result. It is an absolute travesty. It makes the fact that the tories have been trying to delay paying them compensation payments all the more deplorable. Or donât you care about that? Here's the denial. Hopefully at some point in time there'll be some clarification via the Enquiry of course the Conservative Party won't be in power then it'll be the Labour Party who started this sorry saga. Ed Davey is saying his piece in the article not that that carries any remote amount of gravitas. I suspect all three parties want this to go away sooner rather than later since they've all had their grubby hands on it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68330465
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 16:35:05 GMT
Yes, I have posted on multiple occasions about how badly they have been treated by almost everyone in power. They have been completely and utterly let down in so many ways and so many lives have been ruined as a result. It is an absolute travesty. It makes the fact that the tories have been trying to delay paying them compensation payments all the more deplorable. Or donât you care about that? Here's the denial. Hopefully at some point in time there'll be some clarification via the Enquiry of course the Conservative Party won't be in power then it'll be the Labour Party who started this sorry saga. Ed Davey is saying his piece in the article not that that carries any remote amount of gravitas. I suspect all three parties want this to go away sooner rather than later since they've all had their grubby hands on it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68330465Thanks for posting the denials by the government. The ridiculous thing is that if the tories moved quickly to try and compensate and exonerate then it would be a vote winning move. Everyone has come off badly, I agree. But Badenochâs recent schmoozing with Fujitsu officials directly involved with Horizon (before the ITV show but after she had been briefed of the officials involvement in the scandal) and now this, plus the general âfuck the little peopleâ point of view taken by the tories in almost everything they have done in recent times, makes me very suspicious of them. It seems there is an easy vote winning move. But the tories havenât done it. Will labour when they are in power?
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 16:57:47 GMT
Here's the denial. Hopefully at some point in time there'll be some clarification via the Enquiry of course the Conservative Party won't be in power then it'll be the Labour Party who started this sorry saga. Ed Davey is saying his piece in the article not that that carries any remote amount of gravitas. I suspect all three parties want this to go away sooner rather than later since they've all had their grubby hands on it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68330465Thanks for posting the denials by the government. The ridiculous thing is that if the tories moved quickly to try and compensate and exonerate then it would be a vote winning move. Everyone has come off badly, I agree. But Badenochâs recent schmoozing with Fujitsu officials directly involved with Horizon (before the ITV show but after she had been briefed of the officials involvement in the scandal) and now this, plus the general âfuck the little peopleâ point of view taken by the tories in almost everything they have done in recent times, makes me very suspicious of them. It seems there is an easy vote winning move. But the tories havenât done it. Will labour when they are in power? I'm not proposing to get involved in politics which is what you appear to want to do on this thread. I've spent the last few years avoiding dull politics and the dull one eyed discussions that come with it. My views on all the guilty parties from the Conservative party to those bit part players the Liberal Democrats are there for all to see since day one when I became aware of the issue. I suspect that the only interest you have in this subject is the discomfort of the present government.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 18, 2024 17:52:11 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 18, 2024 18:16:57 GMT
Thanks for posting the denials by the government. The ridiculous thing is that if the tories moved quickly to try and compensate and exonerate then it would be a vote winning move. Everyone has come off badly, I agree. But Badenochâs recent schmoozing with Fujitsu officials directly involved with Horizon (before the ITV show but after she had been briefed of the officials involvement in the scandal) and now this, plus the general âfuck the little peopleâ point of view taken by the tories in almost everything they have done in recent times, makes me very suspicious of them. It seems there is an easy vote winning move. But the tories havenât done it. Will labour when they are in power? I'm not proposing to get involved in politics which is what you appear to want to do on this thread. I've spent the last few years avoiding dull politics and the dull one eyed discussions that come with it. My views on all the guilty parties from the Conservative party to those bit part players the Liberal Democrats are there for all to see since day one when I became aware of the issue. I suspect that the only interest you have in this subject is the discomfort of the present government. Your constant digs at the lib dems contradict your statement that you are ânot proposing to get involved in politicsâ. I have interest in the post office scandal. Compensation for the victims is very much part of it and should be paid tomorrow as far as I am concerned. If you had interest in anything other than defending the tories, you would also be concerned that the victims of the miscarriages of justice are potentially being purposefully delayed in receiving compensation due to the current government.
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Post by felonious on Feb 18, 2024 18:40:02 GMT
I'm not proposing to get involved in politics which is what you appear to want to do on this thread. I've spent the last few years avoiding dull politics and the dull one eyed discussions that come with it. My views on all the guilty parties from the Conservative party to those bit part players the Liberal Democrats are there for all to see since day one when I became aware of the issue. I suspect that the only interest you have in this subject is the discomfort of the present government. Your constant digs at the lib dems contradict your statement that you are ânot proposing to get involved in politicsâ. I have interest in the post office scandal. Compensation for the victims is very much part of it and should be paid tomorrow as far as I am concerned. If you had interest in anything other than defending the tories, you would also be concerned that the victims of the miscarriages of justice are potentially being purposefully delayed in receiving compensation due to the current government. Tell me which leaders of which parties have had their hands on this To repeat myself I've been all over this since I became aware of it and the two real guilty parties are the post Office and Fujitsu. I bumped the thing repeatedly with very little interest from more than a few members of this board. You have only become interested to have a dig at the government at least be a little honest about it. I'm not interested in the Liberal Democrats apart from reminding people like you that they've also got their dirty hands on this whilst being in power.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 18, 2024 18:49:54 GMT
Your constant digs at the lib dems contradict your statement that you are ânot proposing to get involved in politicsâ. I have interest in the post office scandal. Compensation for the victims is very much part of it and should be paid tomorrow as far as I am concerned. If you had interest in anything other than defending the tories, you would also be concerned that the victims of the miscarriages of justice are potentially being purposefully delayed in receiving compensation due to the current government. Tell me which leaders of which parties have had their hands on this To repeat myself I've been all over this since I became aware of it and the two real guilty parties are the post Office and Fujitsu. I bumped the thing repeatedly with very little interest from more than a few members of this board. You have only become interested to have a dig at the government at least be a little honest about it. I'm not interested in the Liberal Democrats apart from reminding people like you that they've also got their dirty hands on this whilst being in power. To be fair, a year ago you posed the question, how long before the government (amongst others) sorted THEIR shit out? I think Oggy is picking up on the story in The Times released today, suggesting that the government are very much and deliberately, attempting to delay sorting their shit out.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 19, 2024 12:42:03 GMT
Badenoch comes out fighting, it will be interesting to see the minutes she claims exonerate her ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 19, 2024 13:00:29 GMT
Mrs. Keegan doesn't sound particularly convincing ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 19, 2024 20:05:07 GMT
Thought exactly the same at the time ...
Oh, who to believe? ð€
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 19, 2024 23:55:20 GMT
This whole case really does highlight the subject of "miscarriage of justice" and what so many must suffer in all walks of life. Its hard enough to win battles when you're 500 strong, what hope has someone with no money on their own got?
Watching the programme really made me think about how id go about such a situation and getting my message of injustice out there. The best I could come up with was radio phone ins, my local mp and hovering around parliament protesting.
Fighting and beating such powerful organisations is just a minefield for ordinary people. It was a truly phenomenal effort from Bates to take on and beat these monsters.
And as someone who works in sales for a big corporate IT company (who ironically provide a significant amount of infrastructure to the Post Office!), my natural thought is, I wonder where the "Account Manager" of the Post Office at Fujitsu is these days? He's not done anything wrong but it must be a surreal case for him/her to watch unfold having earnt hundreds of thousands (maybe more) off the account while lives and livelihoods were being utterly obliterated.
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Post by wannabee on Feb 20, 2024 1:05:41 GMT
This whole case really does highlight the subject of "miscarriage of justice" and what so many must suffer in all walks of life. Its hard enough to win battles when you're 500 strong, what hope has someone with no money on their own got? Watching the programme really made me think about how id go about such a situation and getting my message of injustice out there. The best I could come up with was radio phone ins, my local mp and hovering around parliament protesting. Fighting and beating such powerful organisations is just a minefield for ordinary people. It was a truly phenomenal effort from Bates to take on and beat these monsters. And as someone who works in sales for a big corporate IT company (who ironically provide a significant amount of infrastructure to the Post Office!), my natural thought is, I wonder where the "Account Manager" of the Post Office at Fujitsu is these days? He's not done anything wrong but it must be a surreal case for him/her to watch unfold having earnt hundreds of thousands (maybe more) off the account while lives and livelihoods were being utterly obliterated. I don't often agree with you Bianco but in this instance I wholeheartedly do In the most recent spat between the perennially outraged Kemi Badenoch she wishes to pick a fight with the Government Stooge and Fall Guy Staunton who was sacked by Kemi. Staunton who spent barely a year as Chair of PO and appointed after its scandal was exposed Staunton's crime? he conducted an interview with the Times claiming a Senior Civil Servant had told him to slow down the compensation claims of the wrongly proscecuted Sub Postmasters until the Government could "limp towards" the next GE An easy situation you would think for a competent Minister to deal with. First feign outrage that such a thing could be possible, vow to investigate and "Get back to the House" But simple solutions are not in Kemi's nature when a Culture War can be fought Oh no, she immediately called Staunton a liar, via Twitter/X and doubled down in HoC under privilege. She was able to state this categorically even though she was not present at the meeting between Staunton and the Senior Civil Servant. Staunton now claims he has documented evidence which he shared with others the content of Meeting with Senior Civil Servant - oh Dear What has got lost in this futile exchange is that the promised "Emergency Legislation" to expedite Compensation Claims and Wrongful Convictions have yet to see the light of Day which was prompted by a Public Outcry from an ITV Drama, we'll skip over how it had been dragged out for years beforehand Other Legislation like the Rwanda Bill for instance can miraculously be sped through without delay. Bear in mind that Kemi is the Great Hope of the Conservative Party to lead them out of the Wilderness after the next GE
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 20, 2024 7:40:26 GMT
For anyone to be held accountable an investigation needs to take place.....to see if anyone IS legally accountable ( not an enquiry) and then a case needs to be made, with evidence, against a specific law....dies anyone know if such an investigation is taking place....or will things happen in the " fullness of time"
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Post by chuffedstokie on Feb 20, 2024 7:52:56 GMT
For anyone to be held accountable an investigation needs to take place.....to see if anyone IS legally accountable ( nit an enquiry) and then a case needs to be made, with evidence, against a specific law....dies anyone know if such an investigation is taking place....or will things happen in the " fullness of time" Quite possibly a specialist in corporate law could take a forensic look at the myriad of documents/evidence available and then trying to prove wrongdoing or law breaking. There's clearly been wrongful imprisonment so there must be cases of perjury but nailing any of it down would probably take years.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 20, 2024 7:57:16 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 20, 2024 8:04:19 GMT
For anyone to be held accountable an investigation needs to take place.....to see if anyone IS legally accountable ( nit an enquiry) and then a case needs to be made, with evidence, against a specific law....dies anyone know if such an investigation is taking place....or will things happen in the " fullness of time" Quite possibly a specialist in corporate law could take a forensic look at the myriad of documents/evidence available and then trying to prove wrongdoing or law breaking. There's clearly been wrongful imprisonment so there must be cases of perjury but nailing any of it down would probably take years. It seems to me that prosecutions may never take place or , as you say , will take years. Is there an offence of " Failing to act , or taking action which knowingly results in someone being wrongly convicted of an offence"? ....I doubt it, because the get out clause would be " It's up to the courts to decide " Is there evidence that any of the suspects actually committed perjury in a court leading to a conviction.....I don't know.....They of course would claim that they were acting upon someone else's expert information and , at the time , believed what they said to be true. Then how many decisions were made in the name of the organisations, possibly separate legal entities?.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 20, 2024 8:08:59 GMT
This whole case really does highlight the subject of "miscarriage of justice" and what so many must suffer in all walks of life. Its hard enough to win battles when you're 500 strong, what hope has someone with no money on their own got? Watching the programme really made me think about how id go about such a situation and getting my message of injustice out there. The best I could come up with was radio phone ins, my local mp and hovering around parliament protesting. Fighting and beating such powerful organisations is just a minefield for ordinary people. It was a truly phenomenal effort from Bates to take on and beat these monsters. And as someone who works in sales for a big corporate IT company (who ironically provide a significant amount of infrastructure to the Post Office!), my natural thought is, I wonder where the "Account Manager" of the Post Office at Fujitsu is these days? He's not done anything wrong but it must be a surreal case for him/her to watch unfold having earnt hundreds of thousands (maybe more) off the account while lives and livelihoods were being utterly obliterated. Join a union. That's exactly what they are there for.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 20, 2024 8:15:12 GMT
Quite possibly a specialist in corporate law could take a forensic look at the myriad of documents/evidence available and then trying to prove wrongdoing or law breaking. There's clearly been wrongful imprisonment so there must be cases of perjury but nailing any of it down would probably take years. It seems to me that prosecutions may never take place or , as you say , will take years. Is there an offence of " Failing to act , or taking action which knowingly results in someone being wrongly convicted of an offence"? ....I doubt it, because the get out clause would be " It's up to the courts to decide " Is there evidence that any of the suspects actually committed perjury in a court leading to a conviction.....I don't know.....They of course would claim that they were acting upon someone else's expert information and , at the time , believed what they said to be true. Then how many decisions were made in the name of the organisations, possibly separate legal entities?. It's absolutely clear that people at the very top of the Post Office and in government knew that Fujitsu employees could remotely change the accounts in branches but maintained in court that they couldn't. That is perverting the course of justice. There has to be criminal prosecutions as a result of what has been uncovered.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 20, 2024 8:28:58 GMT
It seems to me that prosecutions may never take place or , as you say , will take years. Is there an offence of " Failing to act , or taking action which knowingly results in someone being wrongly convicted of an offence"? ....I doubt it, because the get out clause would be " It's up to the courts to decide " Is there evidence that any of the suspects actually committed perjury in a court leading to a conviction.....I don't know.....They of course would claim that they were acting upon someone else's expert information and , at the time , believed what they said to be true. Then how many decisions were made in the name of the organisations, possibly separate legal entities?. It's absolutely clear that people at the very top of the Post Office and in government knew that Fujitsu employees could remotely change the accounts in branches but maintained in court that they couldn't. That is perverting the course of justice. There has to be criminal prosecutions as a result of what has been uncovered. I hope so But....playing Devil's advocate With a top Barrister Needing proof beyond reasonable doubt. Basing their evidence on " what we believed at the time" I'm so cynical about this whole affair and other things of recent governments that I can believe that "they" could get away with it , despite what seems blatantly obvious.
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