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Post by Northy on Jan 26, 2024 6:02:20 GMT
A couple more names coming out now, another lawyer and a civil servant in amongst them. The Project Sparrow sub-committee was led by Post Office chair Alice Perkins and included chief executive Paula Vennells, alongside the Post Office's most senior internal lawyer, general counsel Chris Aujard, and Richard Callard, a senior civil servant at UK Government Investments, then a division of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
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Post by deeside2 on Jan 26, 2024 6:23:54 GMT
It just leaves you feeling more and more angry at this seemingly endless labyrinth of lies and cover-ups at the expense of the "small people". The revelations just keep on coming and it becomes ever more incredible and despicable. It seems as though everyone involved on the Post Office side was complicit as they all knew Horizon was faulty.
I don't know if I've missed it but how much longer is this enquiry due to run ? How long till the subpostmasters are exonerated and compensated ? Who determines their compensation ? What will happen to those deemed responsible for this ?
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 26, 2024 6:57:00 GMT
It just leaves you feeling more and more angry at this seemingly endless labyrinth of lies and cover-ups at the expense of the "small people". The revelations just keep on coming and it becomes ever more incredible and despicable. It seems as though everyone involved on the Post Office side was complicit as they all knew Horizon was faulty. I don't know if I've missed it but how much longer is this enquiry due to run ? How long till the subpostmasters are exonerated and compensated ? Who determines their compensation ? What will happen to those deemed responsible for this ? The depths they went to is quite incredible and the complicity of those involved goes beyond anything you thought possible. Every time there was the slightest whiff of problems/fault it was smothered so rapidly. Knitting this fog of duplicity into something coherent that can be used as the basis for any actions against those responsible will make murder investigation look easy.
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Post by felonious on Jan 26, 2024 6:58:05 GMT
The more you hear and read about this case the more the likelihood that the prosecuting lawyers must have known the full facts of these cases. The lack of disclosure to sub postmasters is starting to be revealed gradually by this enquiry. It will be interesting to see the repercussions for the lawyers involved in these cases.
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Post by felonious on Jan 26, 2024 7:29:24 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jan 26, 2024 8:19:59 GMT
The more you hear and read about this case the more the likelihood that the prosecuting lawyers must have known the full facts of these cases. The lack of disclosure to sub postmasters is starting to be revealed gradually by this enquiry. It will be interesting to see the repercussions for the lawyers involved in these cases. Lawyers, civil servants, CEO's, chairman, ministers, if found to be covering up, they should be asset stripped (plus pay, bonuses and pensions recovered) and the proceeds go into the compensation pot, face a custodial sentence and after get to live in social housing.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 26, 2024 9:02:28 GMT
The more you hear and read about this case the more the likelihood that the prosecuting lawyers must have known the full facts of these cases. The lack of disclosure to sub postmasters is starting to be revealed gradually by this enquiry. It will be interesting to see the repercussions for the lawyers involved in these cases. Lawyers, civil servants, CEO's, chairman, ministers, if found to be covering up, they should be asset stripped (plus pay, bonuses and pensions recovered) and the proceeds go into the compensation pot, face a custodial sentence and after get to live in social housing. Can I suggest private rented or a HMO. Social Housing is too good for them.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 26, 2024 9:13:48 GMT
Lawyers, civil servants, CEO's, chairman, ministers, if found to be covering up, they should be asset stripped (plus pay, bonuses and pensions recovered) and the proceeds go into the compensation pot, face a custodial sentence and after get to live in social housing. Can I suggest private rented or a HMO. Social Housing is too good for them. Or a tent 🤔
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 26, 2024 9:16:22 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 26, 2024 9:38:15 GMT
Good grief. This keeps getting worse and worse. Its not a case of heads "should" roll now its a case of how many heads will be rolling when this investigation has concluded. One thing is for fookin sure though, people knew full well innocent people were getting locked up and basically having their lives completely destroyed. Its absolutely sickening...
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 26, 2024 9:43:44 GMT
Good grief. This keeps getting worse and worse. Its not a case of heads "should" roll now its a case of how many heads will be rolling when this investigation has concluded. One thing is for fookin sure though, people knew full well innocent people were getting locked up and basically having their lives completely destroyed. Its absolutely sickening... I think you've got too much faith in the politicians of all party's, lawyers, judges etc not to find a way of exonerating themselves. Ignorance is no defence but it seems to be the one many of them are using.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 26, 2024 9:53:52 GMT
Good grief. This keeps getting worse and worse. Its not a case of heads "should" roll now its a case of how many heads will be rolling when this investigation has concluded. One thing is for fookin sure though, people knew full well innocent people were getting locked up and basically having their lives completely destroyed. Its absolutely sickening... I think you've got too much faith in the politicians of all party's, lawyers, judges etc not to find a way of exonerating themselves. Ignorance is no defence but it seems to be the one many of them are using. I'm hoping that the weight of public outrage following the itv programme will ensure justice prevails. If not then public protest should follow. This could happen to any of us in this digital age...
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 26, 2024 10:06:59 GMT
I think you've got too much faith in the politicians of all party's, lawyers, judges etc not to find a way of exonerating themselves. Ignorance is no defence but it seems to be the one many of them are using. I'm hoping that the weight of public outrage following the itv programme will ensure justice prevails. If not then public protest should follow. This could happen to any of us in this digital age... It's imperative (in my opinion) that this remains at the top of the itinerary of all news broadcasters and not reduced to a sub story at the end of a programme.
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 26, 2024 10:44:44 GMT
I'm hoping that the weight of public outrage following the itv programme will ensure justice prevails. If not then public protest should follow. This could happen to any of us in this digital age... It's imperative (in my opinion) that this remains at the top of the itinerary of all news broadcasters and not reduced to a sub story at the end of a programme. My concern is that, as with everything else, there is an initial explosion of public outrage that fuels a major news story. But as the drudgery of the inquiry proceeds, public interest recedes and likewise, the issues gets less column inches in the press. This inquiry has been running for nearly 4 years, and only now have people been paying attention. Unless something major comes out, the press will only report what their readership want to hear and interest in the inquiry will revert back to how it was before the drama was broadcast.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 26, 2024 12:26:28 GMT
It's imperative (in my opinion) that this remains at the top of the itinerary of all news broadcasters and not reduced to a sub story at the end of a programme. My concern is that, as with everything else, there is an initial explosion of public outrage that fuels a major news story. But as the drudgery of the inquiry proceeds, public interest recedes and likewise, the issues gets less column issues in the press. This inquiry has been running for nearly 4 years, and only now have people been paying attention. Unless something major comes out, the press will only report what their readership want to hear and interest in the inquiry will revert back to how it was before the drama was broadcast. You're absolutely right of course. 😟
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 27, 2024 16:10:03 GMT
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 27, 2024 17:25:54 GMT
If anyone has a spare few hours they should listen to this examination. It starts badly and gets worse and worse. If the consequences weren't so tragic it would almost be laughable how badly prepared the goof is. First 10 is his CV being demolished by Mr Beer. Likens having a second job to a hobby like collecting stamps. Those blaming horizon are jumping on the bandwagon and once we have a few wins they'll drift away like midnight snow. Admits to barely lifting a finger and adhering to the prosecutor code. Ends with him having to take legal advice. This chap needs seriously looking at. This is a good written summary of what occurred. www.postofficescandal.uk/post/more-singhd-against-than-singh-ing/
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 27, 2024 18:42:08 GMT
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 27, 2024 21:34:10 GMT
Not quite sure why he’s taken a fall. He’s only been in post (pardon the pun) for little over a year. This whole fiasco unfurled well before his time.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 27, 2024 21:59:44 GMT
Not quite sure why he’s taken a fall. He’s only been in post (pardon the pun) for little over a year. This whole fiasco unfurled well before his time. The Government know that they need a Whitehall malleable, loyalist in there, to keep them at arms length from too much scrutiny in the coming months? Keep an eye on who they replace him with ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 27, 2024 22:16:03 GMT
Very quietly resigned yesterday, I hope this doesn't mean he get's off from having to appear at the enquiry ...
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Post by Northy on Jan 30, 2024 9:29:24 GMT
Very quietly resigned yesterday, I hope this doesn't mean he get's off from having to appear at the enquiry ... It is a statutory inquiry rather than non-statutory, so hopefully he should have to give evidence.
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Post by deeside2 on Feb 1, 2024 6:52:38 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 13:04:21 GMT
He's a typical legal weasel. His excuses don't wash and Alan Bates' version of this regarding Davey's ignorance and attitude when they met is the version I'm buying.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 13:28:23 GMT
He's a typical legal weasel. His excuses don't wash and Alan Bates' version of this regarding Davey's ignorance and attitude when they met is the version I'm buying. I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 13:32:35 GMT
He's a typical legal weasel. His excuses don't wash and Alan Bates' version of this regarding Davey's ignorance and attitude when they met is the version I'm buying. I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal. Back to Davey, here's a suitable riposte to that woe is me tripe the Guardian have published to try and exonerate him. labourheartlands.com/ed-davey-vs-mr-bates-post-office-scandal-from-ministerial-neglect-to-consultants-payday/Ignorance is no defence.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 1, 2024 13:39:11 GMT
I also trust Bates more than a politician. This week’s Private Eye has a remarkable photo from the Tories’ 2014 Carlton Political Dinner, where Fujitsu boss Simon Blagden hosted a table and Post Office chief Paula Vennells attended, at the height of its battle with sub-postmasters over dodgy Horizon software. What’s remarkable is the Conservatives on the same table. They included Liz Truss, Lucy Frazer, Andrea Jenkyns and now-minister for the Post Office Kevin Hollinrake. So at least Davey’s mistakes were comparatively early in the whole scandal. Back to Davey, here's a suitable riposte to that woe is me tripe the Guardian have published to try and exonerate him. labourheartlands.com/ed-davey-vs-mr-bates-post-office-scandal-from-ministerial-neglect-to-consultants-payday/Ignorance is no defence. I’m not sure Davey is saying ignorance. He is saying he failed to meet with Bates until a few months after he first contacted him, which he acknowledges was wrong. He then raised concerns with the Post Office who gave firm rebuttals which turned out to be lies. We know now he shouldn’t have believed the Post Office but as he rightly says, until the whistleblower came forward there was no actual evidence. What Davey is saying in his article is that for a quasi public body like Royal Mail at the time, there should have requirements for a minister on the board. It was set up incorrectly. At least he wasn’t networking with the at fault CEO and Fujitsu directors like the tories were at the time!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 1, 2024 13:45:44 GMT
I’m not sure Davey is saying ignorance. He is saying he failed to meet with Bates until a few months after he first contacted him, which he acknowledges was wrong. He then raised concerns with the Post Office who gave firm rebuttals which turned out to be lies. We know now he shouldn’t have believed the Post Office but as he rightly says, until the whistleblower came forward there was no actual evidence. What Davey is saying in his article is that for a quasi public body like Royal Mail at the time, there should have requirements for a minister on the board. It was set up incorrectly. At least he wasn’t networking with the at fault CEO and Fujitsu directors like the tories were at the time! No he didn't. He just actively worked for the law firm prosecuting the Post Masters at the time.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 1, 2024 13:56:07 GMT
The only figure mentioned in that article, is one of £600,000 to be awarded to every PM who has their conviction overturned.
Are they suggesting that Bates has asked for £3.5 million, or am I missing something?
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