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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 19:58:50 GMT
The House of Lords needs a massive reform In my opinion it needs abolishing , not reform. In the modern era. Whether we need a second chamber, that is up for debate. I'm not sure. But if we do I think we need a good debate about it and come up with the best model, starting from a blank piece of paper. What is certain is we would not come up with the current model of cronyism etc. In the modern era, if we need scrutiny of legislation by " experts ", stakeholders, interested parties that could easily be done online....no need for travel, expenses, buildings
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 20:24:16 GMT
The House of Lords needs a massive reform For me: Reality check FACTS The ONLY way the HoL could be abolished is if we do something different than we have done for the last 100 years. It is already decided that the next government will be either Tory or Labour. Most likely it will be Labour. No one ( or very few) on the Oatcake want Labour ( the Left have been clear that Labour are not Socialist) Words fail me to describe the Tories......without writing five or six pages So What I find sad is that the only party that is trying to address the problem....Reform....is ...the Reform party. Clearly they will not win any seats and the" Left" won't support them because of association with the right , BUT if we really want change....we need to change the system. I don't particularly like Tice, but at least Reform is talking about change. He who dares wins. You reap what you sow. And those on the Left.....remember what you have voted for!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 20:45:45 GMT
The House of Lords needs a massive reform For me: Reality check FACTS The ONLY way the HoL could be abolished is if we do something different than we have done for the last 100 years. It is already decided that the next government will be either Tory or Labour. Most likely it will be Labour. No one ( or very few) on the Oatcake want Labour ( the Left have been clear that Labour are not Socialist) Words fail me to describe the Tories......without writing five or six pages So What I find sad is that the only party that is trying to address the problem....Reform....is ...the Reform party. Clearly they will not win any seats and the" Left" won't support them because of association with the right , BUT if we really want change....we need to change the system. I don't particularly like Tice, but at least Reform is talking about change. He who dares wins. You reap what you sow. And those on the Left.....remember what you have voted for! The only 2 Green Party peers have been campaigning to scrap the HOL for years, the Greens have also pledged to adopt PR. There's another option for you right there BJR, if that is your key criteria for getting your vote.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 12, 2024 20:52:00 GMT
The House of Lords needs a massive reform In my opinion it needs abolishing , not reform. In the modern era. Whether we need a second chamber, that is up for debate. I'm not sure. But if we do I think we need a good debate about it and come up with the best model, starting from a blank piece of paper. What is certain is we would not come up with the current model of cronyism etc. In the modern era, if we need scrutiny of legislation by " experts ", stakeholders, interested parties that could easily be done online....no need for travel, expenses, buildings You need a second chamber But it needs to work not be full of old cunts older than oldstokie who turn up for a nap and £300
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 20:57:07 GMT
For me: Reality check FACTS The ONLY way the HoL could be abolished is if we do something different than we have done for the last 100 years. It is already decided that the next government will be either Tory or Labour. Most likely it will be Labour. No one ( or very few) on the Oatcake want Labour ( the Left have been clear that Labour are not Socialist) Words fail me to describe the Tories......without writing five or six pages So What I find sad is that the only party that is trying to address the problem....Reform....is ...the Reform party. Clearly they will not win any seats and the" Left" won't support them because of association with the right , BUT if we really want change....we need to change the system. I don't particularly like Tice, but at least Reform is talking about change. He who dares wins. You reap what you sow. And those on the Left.....remember what you have voted for! The only 2 Green Party peers have been campaigning to scrap the HOL for years, the Greens have also pledged to adopt PR. There's another option for you right there BJR, if that is your key criteria for getting your vote. Pragmatically and realistically I don't think the Greens nor Reform will have any impact whatsoever....which is probably my main point....the Left are content, narrow minded enough to simply play the two party game. No change there. If I thought the Greens had any chance of effecting Constitutional change , I would 200% back them. Unlike the Greens, Reform are making "reform" their central policy, which I think is the main thing that is needed....those " socialists" who vote Labour are conformists voting for the status quo.....I hope they remember this when they have to complain post election
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 20:59:02 GMT
In my opinion it needs abolishing , not reform. In the modern era. Whether we need a second chamber, that is up for debate. I'm not sure. But if we do I think we need a good debate about it and come up with the best model, starting from a blank piece of paper. What is certain is we would not come up with the current model of cronyism etc. In the modern era, if we need scrutiny of legislation by " experts ", stakeholders, interested parties that could easily be done online....no need for travel, expenses, buildings You need a second chamber But it needs to work not be full of old cunts older than oldstokie who turn up for a nap and £300 I think it is £342 now. I'm not particularly bothered how old they are, just how good they are.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 21:01:40 GMT
The only 2 Green Party peers have been campaigning to scrap the HOL for years, the Greens have also pledged to adopt PR. There's another option for you right there BJR, if that is your key criteria for getting your vote. Pragmatically and realistically I don't think the Greens nor Reform will have any impact whatsoever....which is probably my main point....the Left are content, narrow minded enough to simply play the two party game. No change there. If I thought the Greens had any chance of effecting Constitutional change , I would 200% back them. Unlike the Greens, Reform are making "reform" their central policy, which I think is the main thing that is needed....those " socialists" who vote Labour are conformists voting for the status quo.....I hope they remember this when they have to complain post election Why do you think Reform will have any more ability to effect constitutional change than the Greens?
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2024 21:05:01 GMT
Fujitsu need to be hung out to dry on this...... They are in the enquiry next week but it will be people who had nothing to do with it and have been left to pick up the pieces, it's the ones who were involved at the time which should be interesting to watch, and see how culpable they are and what ramifications they will face
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 21:11:19 GMT
Pragmatically and realistically I don't think the Greens nor Reform will have any impact whatsoever....which is probably my main point....the Left are content, narrow minded enough to simply play the two party game. No change there. If I thought the Greens had any chance of effecting Constitutional change , I would 200% back them. Unlike the Greens, Reform are making "reform" their central policy, which I think is the main thing that is needed....those " socialists" who vote Labour are conformists voting for the status quo.....I hope they remember this when they have to complain post election Why do you think Reform will have any more ability to effect constitutional change than the Greens? I don't. I've said, it's already a forgone conclusion that we will have a Labour , Conservative or Coalition government. But I've said I prefer Reform because they make Reform their main policy position, which I would like to see. proportional representation would allow the Greens more voice, which I am in favour of. Also I think Reform represents something different, the Greens have been around for a while.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 21:13:10 GMT
Fujitsu need to be hung out to dry on this...... They are in the enquiry next week but it will be people who had nothing to do with it and have been left to pick up the pieces, it's the ones who were involved at the time which should be interesting to watch, and see how culpable they are and what ramifications they will face Is that for certain Northy? I only found out today (and was surprised) that the Carwright King lawyers (at the time) were interviewed by the enquiry in December.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 21:16:08 GMT
Why do you think Reform will have any more ability to effect constitutional change than the Greens? I don't. I've said, it's already a forgone conclusion that we will have a Labour , Conservative or Coalition government. But I've said I prefer Reform because they make Reform their main policy position, which I would like to see. proportional representation would allow the Greens more voice, which I am in favour of. Also I think Reform represents something different, the Greens have been around for a while. I'd argue that there isn't any difference between the policies of the two party's on constitutional reform. If there are other Reform policies that you prefer over the Greens, then fair enough.
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2024 21:20:34 GMT
They are in the enquiry next week but it will be people who had nothing to do with it and have been left to pick up the pieces, it's the ones who were involved at the time which should be interesting to watch, and see how culpable they are and what ramifications they will face Is that for certain Northy? I only found out today (and was surprised) that the Carwright King lawyers (at the time) were interviewed by the enquiry in December. Yes I think so, thought I heard it earlier and they are also up in front of the select committee as well. Not sure which days.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2024 21:26:37 GMT
I don't. I've said, it's already a forgone conclusion that we will have a Labour , Conservative or Coalition government. But I've said I prefer Reform because they make Reform their main policy position, which I would like to see. proportional representation would allow the Greens more voice, which I am in favour of. Also I think Reform represents something different, the Greens have been around for a while. I'd argue that there isn't any difference between the policies of the two party's on constitutional reform. If there are other Reform policies that you prefer over the Greens, then fair enough. As I say Reform have Reform as their USP. Greens have GREEN issues as their USP. I believe most people vote on ONE main determining issue...the economy, social justice/ equality, the quality of the leader, trust, . For me, pragmatically, Reform is the only issue which will effect change. I've got nothing whatsoever against the Greens, much prefer them to Labour and Tory, perhaps if we are talking about issues not personalities, change not conformity , the Greens are closer to Reform than you'd imagine......of course it takes courage to support change
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 21:31:10 GMT
Is that for certain Northy? I only found out today (and was surprised) that the Carwright King lawyers (at the time) were interviewed by the enquiry in December. Yes I think so, thought I heard it earlier and they are also up in front of the select committee as well. Not sure which days. Fingers crossed ...
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Post by henry on Jan 12, 2024 21:35:07 GMT
Think he probably means post office Horizon IT scandal transcends the current government as it started as early as 1995 with its trials and Blair’s Labour signed the post office contract with Fujitsu in 1999 "overseeing" it for next 11 years. Right on cue who'd a thought. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495Tony Blair was warned Horizon IT system could be flawed, documents show I suspect this is why Labour are not making any political capital out of this sorry mess because their fingers are all over it even the Liberal democrats have managed to muscle in on the action. The cunt and his lawyer missus have sat back watching innocent people go to prison. This country is fucking rancid.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 22:00:43 GMT
Good grief, who saw this coming?
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Post by ChesterStokie on Jan 12, 2024 22:07:09 GMT
Think he probably means post office Horizon IT scandal transcends the current government as it started as early as 1995 with its trials and Blair’s Labour signed the post office contract with Fujitsu in 1999 "overseeing" it for next 11 years. Right on cue who'd a thought. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495Tony Blair was warned Horizon IT system could be flawed, documents show I suspect this is why Labour are not making any political capital out of this sorry mess because their fingers are all over it even the Liberal democrats have managed to muscle in on the action. That BBC article says Tony Blair 'gave it the go-ahead' as if he signed-off the Horizon IT System himself!!! That's surely got to be really lazy journalism? We can blame Tony Blair for many things but we can't blame him for the Post Office computer system, that's surely the responsibility of the Directors of the Post Office.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 12, 2024 22:26:10 GMT
Good grief, who saw this coming? Just seen it on the news, they're in it up to their necks and then some!.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2024 23:07:48 GMT
Oh dear.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Jan 13, 2024 1:07:26 GMT
Don't believe the news. Make your own mind up [Chuffed]
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 13, 2024 3:53:33 GMT
Don't believe the news. Make your own mind up [Chuffed] It was a nice reporter with the beeb so it *must* be credible, mustn't it.
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Post by Northy on Jan 13, 2024 6:55:16 GMT
Good grief, who saw this coming? Just seen it on the news, they're in it up to their necks and then some!. Clucking bells, no doubt us taxpayers will be funding that if the PO has to keep going. There's got to be jail term for these people at the top, and reclaiming bonuses if it can be done.
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Post by felonious on Jan 13, 2024 8:17:36 GMT
Right on cue who'd a thought. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495Tony Blair was warned Horizon IT system could be flawed, documents show I suspect this is why Labour are not making any political capital out of this sorry mess because their fingers are all over it even the Liberal democrats have managed to muscle in on the action. That BBC article says Tony Blair 'gave it the go-ahead' as if he signed-off the Horizon IT System himself!!! That's surely got to be really lazy journalism? We can blame Tony Blair for many things but we can't blame him for the Post Office computer system, that's surely the responsibility of the Directors of the Post Office. Well you can have a read here directly from the Enquiry warts and all Labour party in government committing the nation to Horizon for more than a decade to keep Fujitsu sweet. Not a Fuck the Tory in sight and there's no "lazy journalism" in sight just plain common or garden factual reporting and it's not a tweet either. www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/evidence/cbo00100001072-letter-geoff-mulgan-prime-minister-cc-lord-falconer-jonathan-powell-andAn exhibit from the continuing Enquiry attached to the BBC article.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 13, 2024 8:41:55 GMT
That BBC article says Tony Blair 'gave it the go-ahead' as if he signed-off the Horizon IT System himself!!! That's surely got to be really lazy journalism? We can blame Tony Blair for many things but we can't blame him for the Post Office computer system, that's surely the responsibility of the Directors of the Post Office. Well you can have a read here directly from the Enquiry warts and all Labour party in government committing the nation to Horizon for more than a decade to keep Fujitsu sweet. Not a Fuck the Tory in sight and there's no "lazy journalism" in sight just plain common or garden factual reporting and it's not a tweet either. www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/evidence/cbo00100001072-letter-geoff-mulgan-prime-minister-cc-lord-falconer-jonathan-powell-andAn exhibit from the continuing Enquiry attached to the BBC article. That handwriting is dreadful, but boy, they were warned.
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Post by deeside2 on Jan 13, 2024 9:13:40 GMT
Every day you hear more revelations about this, you think it just can't get any worse, but it always does. How ever long will it take to sort all this out. It's shocking beyond belief.
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Post by Davef on Jan 13, 2024 18:20:17 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 13, 2024 18:49:59 GMT
Apologies if already posted
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Post by Davef on Jan 13, 2024 20:15:15 GMT
Apologies if already posted No need to apologise BJR. It's staggering that that Panorama documentary is nearly a decade old!
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Post by felonious on Jan 13, 2024 20:58:48 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 21:03:26 GMT
From that hardcore lefty rag, erm ... The Sunday Times
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