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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2020 6:22:58 GMT
Lisa Nandy on Corbyn's Labour Party. Pretty damning stuff. "We've had four years, not just of infighting within the Labour Party and a factional war, waged from the frontbenches and the backbenches that showed the public we were more interested in ourselves, than we were in them, but we'd also had Brexit which was really, really devastating." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51752969
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 8:19:06 GMT
Lisa Nandy on Corbyn's Labour Party. Pretty damning stuff. "We've had four years, not just of infighting within the Labour Party and a factional war, waged from the frontbenches and the backbenches that showed the public we were more interested in ourselves, than we were in them, but we'd also had Brexit which was really, really devastating." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51752969Most of it is made up bollocks to be fair. She along with several other colleagues systematically resigned to try and force Corbyn out, then when they failed they spent the next few years telling everyone how the shadow cabinet wasn’t a “broad enough church”
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2020 18:27:07 GMT
Lisa Nandy on Corbyn's Labour Party. Pretty damning stuff. "We've had four years, not just of infighting within the Labour Party and a factional war, waged from the frontbenches and the backbenches that showed the public we were more interested in ourselves, than we were in them, but we'd also had Brexit which was really, really devastating." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51752969Most of it is made up bollocks to be fair. She along with several other colleagues systematically resigned to try and force Corbyn out, then when they failed they spent the next few years telling everyone how the shadow cabinet wasn’t a “broad enough church” Keep telling yourself that it's a happy united party with no infighting and no factional war.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 19:41:55 GMT
Most of it is made up bollocks to be fair. She along with several other colleagues systematically resigned to try and force Corbyn out, then when they failed they spent the next few years telling everyone how the shadow cabinet wasn’t a “broad enough church” Keep telling yourself that it's a happy united party with no infighting and no factional war. I don’t need to keep telling myself that as it’s clearly not what I said and I’m pretty sure you can read. I said the infighting was caused by Nandy and her cronies, which is why what she was saying was just bollocks.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 8, 2020 19:53:55 GMT
International women's day.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 8, 2020 23:50:36 GMT
WTF regardless of whether the context mentioned is true just how the fuck does racist grandpa suspend Trevor Phillips for alleged racism....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 6:53:51 GMT
WTF regardless of whether the context mentioned is true just how the fuck does racist grandpa suspend Trevor Phillips for alleged racism.... Just too inward looking. Everybody's a racist and no one is worthy.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 7:36:13 GMT
International women's day. Being separate here does not translate as inequality. They have chairs are not at the back. One could argue that they even have a better view of the speaker. I'm not a fan of segregation but in this instance it's not relevant to international womens day as they're treated the same as the men here.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 7:40:23 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 8:10:34 GMT
Yes I did recall it from the past. I also remember you referring to one of my posts in which I question whether Labour may come to regret its close association with Islam. And now Trvor Phillips has been suspended, basically for wanting to acknowledge and discuss the culture clash between Islam and the West/Mainstream UK culture.Same issue....... 2015, 2020, 2025 ( I don't think that we will have a Labour party that resembles the current one by then). You can wonder away....separate seating, however well intentioned and " justified" is a small illustration of the point.
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Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2020 8:15:08 GMT
International women's day. Being separate here does not translate as inequality. They have chairs are not at the back. One could argue that they even have a better view of the speaker. I'm not a fan of segregation but in this instance it's not relevant to international womens day as they're treated the same as the men here. Surely segregation is relevant to women's rights to equality in modern day UK. They appear to have been told where they have to sit and have no choice in the matter. I regularly drive past a mosque in the back streets of Tunstall past a door labelled "Sisters entrance" presumably it's the door where women are forced to enter by because they have no choice to use the main entrance under the instruction of men. The above photo has absolutely no place in modern day Britain and any man with a wife, daughter, sister, etc should object to it especially on International Women's Day when injustices are highlighted.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 8:15:57 GMT
Yes I did recall it from the past. I also remember you referring to one of my tweets in which I question whether Labour may come to regret its close association with Islam. And now Trvor Phillips has been suspended, basically for wanting to acknowledge and discuss the culture clash between Islam and the West/Mainstream UK culture.Same issue....... 2015, 2020, 2025 ( I don't think that we will have a Labour party that resembles the current one by then). You can wonder away....separate seating, however well intentioned and " jystified" is a small illustration of the point. Do you? Because I don't. In any case, you may well have some decent points to make, but if you don't want to be seen as having an agenda then I recommend using more recent and relevant examples.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 9, 2020 8:17:44 GMT
International women's day. Why worry about them, haven’t we enough to deal with already...
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Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2020 8:18:42 GMT
WTF regardless of whether the context mentioned is true just how the fuck does racist grandpa suspend Trevor Phillips for alleged racism.... Just too inward looking. Everybody's a racist and no one is worthy. Here's the BBC reporting the news. The paper said many of his statements are years-old but that Labour's general secretary Jennie Formby suspended him as a matter of urgency to "protect the party's reputation". What reputation? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51797316
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 9, 2020 8:19:34 GMT
WTF regardless of whether the context mentioned is true just how the fuck does racist grandpa suspend Trevor Phillips for alleged racism.... Just too inward looking. Everybody's a racist and no one is worthy. I am pretty sure if one person is not racist its Trevor Phillips I just wonder are Labour cynical enough to do this and then say the EHCR report is payback for this the answer is probably yes, it seems his real crime was to criticise the messiah.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 8:23:24 GMT
Yes I did recall it from the past. I also remember you referring to one of my tweets in which I question whether Labour may come to regret its close association with Islam. And now Trvor Phillips has been suspended, basically for wanting to acknowledge and discuss the culture clash between Islam and the West/Mainstream UK culture.Same issue....... 2015, 2020, 2025 ( I don't think that we will have a Labour party that resembles the current one by then). You can wonder away....separate seating, however well intentioned and " jystified" is a small illustration of the point. Do you? Because I don't. In any case, you may well have some decent points to make, but if you don't want to be seen as having an agenda then I recommend using more recent and relevant examples. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll take it on board. I think it is still ok to post what we want within the rules though.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 8:24:04 GMT
Being separate here does not translate as inequality. They have chairs are not at the back. One could argue that they even have a better view of the speaker. I'm not a fan of segregation but in this instance it's not relevant to international womens day as they're treated the same as the men here. Surely segregation is relevant to women's rights to equality in modern day UK. They appear to have been told where they have to sit and have no choice in the matter. I regularly drive past a mosque in the back streets of Tunstall past a door labelled "Sisters entrance" presumably it's the door where women are forced to enter by because they have no choice to use the main entrance under the instruction of men. The above photo has absolutely no place in modern day Britain and any man with a wife, daughter, sister, etc should object to it especially on International Women's Day when injustices are highlighted. I don't like or accept segregation (incidentally the men in the picture are also segregated and have been told to sit on their side). I'm simply pointing out that the photo is a) from 2015 and b) not really an example in itself of inequality. Also, inequality isn't only a muslim thing. I was asked by a jewish guy on a flight to swap places with my ex because he didn't want to sit next to a woman. I'm sure that in a lot of communities it's the culture that plays a big part in inequality. Pretty much every culture other than that of most westernised nations will have more gender inequality than here.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 8:27:29 GMT
Surely segregation is relevant to women's rights to equality in modern day UK. They appear to have been told where they have to sit and have no choice in the matter. I regularly drive past a mosque in the back streets of Tunstall past a door labelled "Sisters entrance" presumably it's the door where women are forced to enter by because they have no choice to use the main entrance under the instruction of men. The above photo has absolutely no place in modern day Britain and any man with a wife, daughter, sister, etc should object to it especially on International Women's Day when injustices are highlighted. I don't like or accept segregation (incidentally the men in the picture are also segregated and have been told to sit on their side). I'm simply pointing out that the photo is a) from 2015 and b) not really an example in itself of inequality. Also, inequality isn't only a muslim thing. I was asked by a jewish guy on a flight to swap places with my ex because he didn't want to sit next to a woman. I'm sure that in a lot of communities it's the culture that plays a big part in inequality. Pretty much every culture other than that of most westernised nations will have more gender inequality than here. Saying it's from 2015 it has certainly stimulated your response. It is simply a small example of cultural clash between Islam and the West...something Trevor Phillips wished to acknowledge....and then to try to come to some understanding/ accommodation.....as a religious not a racial practice.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 9, 2020 8:39:12 GMT
Surely segregation is relevant to women's rights to equality in modern day UK. They appear to have been told where they have to sit and have no choice in the matter. I regularly drive past a mosque in the back streets of Tunstall past a door labelled "Sisters entrance" presumably it's the door where women are forced to enter by because they have no choice to use the main entrance under the instruction of men. The above photo has absolutely no place in modern day Britain and any man with a wife, daughter, sister, etc should object to it especially on International Women's Day when injustices are highlighted. I don't like or accept segregation (incidentally the men in the picture are also segregated and have been told to sit on their side). I'm simply pointing out that the photo is a) from 2015 and b) not really an example in itself of inequality. Also, inequality isn't only a muslim thing. I was asked by a jewish guy on a flight to swap places with my ex because he didn't want to sit next to a woman. I'm sure that in a lot of communities it's the culture that plays a big part in inequality. Pretty much every culture other than that of most westernised nations will have more gender inequality than here. I think you will find it was the men who did the segregating if they didnt want it they could tell other men to do one but seating arrangements however weird is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 9, 2020 8:39:33 GMT
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 8:44:01 GMT
I don't like or accept segregation (incidentally the men in the picture are also segregated and have been told to sit on their side). I'm simply pointing out that the photo is a) from 2015 and b) not really an example in itself of inequality. Also, inequality isn't only a muslim thing. I was asked by a jewish guy on a flight to swap places with my ex because he didn't want to sit next to a woman. I'm sure that in a lot of communities it's the culture that plays a big part in inequality. Pretty much every culture other than that of most westernised nations will have more gender inequality than here. Saying it's from 2015 it has certainly stimulated your response. It is simply a small example of cultural clash between Islam and the West...something Trevor Phillips wished to acknowledge....and then to try to come to some understanding/ accommodation.....as a religious not a racial practice. You know how some posters accuse others of needlessly bashing Boris no matter what he does and no matter who else is just as bad. Well that's exactly how you are with Islam. It doesn't matter how many bad examples there are from other religions, cultures, etc, you only ever really highlight the Islamic version, like it's the only one. It's the lack of impartiality that detracts from your credibility. Incidentally, I agree with strict Islam not being compatible, but I think the same about strict Judaism. It's just something you see less, but the segregation is there, as is the ritual slaughter of animals (Kosher).
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 8:44:56 GMT
I don't like or accept segregation (incidentally the men in the picture are also segregated and have been told to sit on their side). I'm simply pointing out that the photo is a) from 2015 and b) not really an example in itself of inequality. Also, inequality isn't only a muslim thing. I was asked by a jewish guy on a flight to swap places with my ex because he didn't want to sit next to a woman. I'm sure that in a lot of communities it's the culture that plays a big part in inequality. Pretty much every culture other than that of most westernised nations will have more gender inequality than here. I think you will find it was the men who did the segregating if they didnt want it they could tell other men to do one but seating arrangements however weird is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. Tell that to the one who brought it up then.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 9:23:13 GMT
Saying it's from 2015 it has certainly stimulated your response. It is simply a small example of cultural clash between Islam and the West...something Trevor Phillips wished to acknowledge....and then to try to come to some understanding/ accommodation.....as a religious not a racial practice. You know how some posters accuse others of needlessly bashing Boris no matter what he does and no matter who else is just as bad. Well that's exactly how you are with Islam. It doesn't matter how many bad examples there are from other religions, cultures, etc, you only ever really highlight the Islamic version, like it's the only one. It's the lack of impartiality that detracts from your credibility. Incidentally, I agree with strict Islam not being compatible, but I think the same about strict Judaism. It's just something you see less, but the segregation is there, as is the ritual slaughter of animals (Kosher). I don't object to being judged as not credible by you. I do indeed think that there is a problem of cultural clash between Islam and other values of freedom...worldwide, in Europe in the UK. It isn't balanced , it's a real problem....that's what Phillips takes issue with...the idea that we can just ignore the issue. I'm very interested in how religion and politics control people. There's an extremely big difference in Judaism and Islam...in terms of direction of travel , pure numbers and growth , influence in local communities. One major difference is how , at heart, Islam is on a mission for everyone to submit , to become believers....Kafir are to be opposed. Islamic law is a direct challenge to " western" law and values ( including attitudes to women and homosexuals).Judaism sees itself as the religion of the chosen people...they are not trying to proselytise...quite the opposite....to try to truly become a Jew in the Reform side of Judaism isn't easy and not recognised by Orthodoxy.Jews have integrated into western society ( whether you like their influence or not is a different issue)...and are NOT challenging the mainstream. Also Christianity has more directly come out of Judaism....Jesus being a Jew for example. Islam is indeed a threat to Western values and a threat to the Labour party as an inclusive party.Which isn't the same as hating Muslims, many of whom are victims of the control of thinking and action in the religion themselves. In my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 10:56:59 GMT
You know how some posters accuse others of needlessly bashing Boris no matter what he does and no matter who else is just as bad. Well that's exactly how you are with Islam. It doesn't matter how many bad examples there are from other religions, cultures, etc, you only ever really highlight the Islamic version, like it's the only one. It's the lack of impartiality that detracts from your credibility. Incidentally, I agree with strict Islam not being compatible, but I think the same about strict Judaism. It's just something you see less, but the segregation is there, as is the ritual slaughter of animals (Kosher). I don't object to being judged as not credible by you. I do indeed think that there is a problem of cultural clash between Islam and other values of freedom...worldwide, in Europe on the UK. It isnt balanced , it's a real problem....that's what Phillips takes issue with...the idea that we can just ignore the issue. I'm very interested in how religion and politics control people. There's an extremely big difference in Judsism and Islam...in terms of direction of travel , pure numbers and growth , influence in local communities. One major difference is how , at heart Islam is on a mission for everyone to submit , to become believers....Kafir are to be opposed. Islamic law is a direct challenge to " western law" and values ( including attitudes to women and homosexuals).Judaism sees itself as the religion of the chosen people...they are not trying to proselytise...quite the opposite....to try to truly become a Jew in the Reform side of Judaism isn't easy and not recognised by Orthodoxy.Jews have integrated into western society ( whether you like their influence or not is a different issue)...and are NOT challenging the mainstream. Also Christianity has more directly come out of Judaism....Jesus being a Jew example. Islam is indeed a threat to Western values and the Labour party as an inclusive party.Which isn't the same as hating Muslims, many of whom are victims of the control of thinking and action in the religion themselves. In my opinion. Actually John there's a huge increase in Ultra Orthodox Jews caused by the birth rate which is 7 children per family compared to 2 children per family in "mainstream" Jewish families and 3 children per Muslim family. At these current rates by 2031 the majority of Jewish children will be born into Ultra Orthodox families and in 60 years time the majority of British Jews will be Ultra Orthodox. The last major poll by Ipsos MORI shows that British Muslim attitudes are becoming more liberal as they pass through generations. The conclusion was as follows: "This report is an important study as it synthesises many of the surveys that have been done examining the attitudes of British Muslims as well as the attitudes of the British Public towards Muslims. The report highlights that British Muslims are a diverse group of people – much like the public as a whole. They have a strong sense of British identity and while religion does play a greater role in the lives of Muslims than the general population, the vast majority believe that being Muslim and being British is entirely compatible. Yet, the report indicates that there are increasing concerns that religious prejudice towards Muslims is rising. While the British Muslim population has a younger age profile than the population as a whole, the findings shows that younger Muslims are a distinct group; they are more open in their views and have more diverse social networks – this is particularly the case for those who are graduates.The findings also show that public opinion towards Muslims is mixed. Muslims make up just under five percent of the population yet the British public think it’s three times this figure. And while the majority think that Islam is peaceful religion, they believe that most people perceive the religion in a negative way. Again, in the general population we also find that the views of younger people tend to be more positive and open towards Muslims than other age groups." So you may find that as the years pass in terms of "integration" the direction of travel may be the opposite to what you say........
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 13:22:02 GMT
I don't object to being judged as not credible by you. I do indeed think that there is a problem of cultural clash between Islam and other values of freedom...worldwide, in Europe on the UK. It isnt balanced , it's a real problem....that's what Phillips takes issue with...the idea that we can just ignore the issue. I'm very interested in how religion and politics control people. There's an extremely big difference in Judsism and Islam...in terms of direction of travel , pure numbers and growth , influence in local communities. One major difference is how , at heart Islam is on a mission for everyone to submit , to become believers....Kafir are to be opposed. Islamic law is a direct challenge to " western law" and values ( including attitudes to women and homosexuals).Judaism sees itself as the religion of the chosen people...they are not trying to proselytise...quite the opposite....to try to truly become a Jew in the Reform side of Judaism isn't easy and not recognised by Orthodoxy.Jews have integrated into western society ( whether you like their influence or not is a different issue)...and are NOT challenging the mainstream. Also Christianity has more directly come out of Judaism....Jesus being a Jew example. Islam is indeed a threat to Western values and the Labour party as an inclusive party.Which isn't the same as hating Muslims, many of whom are victims of the control of thinking and action in the religion themselves. In my opinion. Actually John there's a huge increase in Ultra Orthodox Jews caused by the birth rate which is 7 children per family compared to 2 children per family in "mainstream" Jewish families and 3 children per Muslim family. At these current rates by 2031 the majority of Jewish children will be born into Ultra Orthodox families and in 60 years time the majority of British Jews will be Ultra Orthodox. The last major poll by Ipsos MORI shows that British Muslim attitudes are becoming more liberal as they pass through generations. The conclusion was as follows: "This report is an important study as it synthesises many of the surveys that have been done examining the attitudes of British Muslims as well as the attitudes of the British Public towards Muslims. The report highlights that British Muslims are a diverse group of people – much like the public as a whole. They have a strong sense of British identity and while religion does play a greater role in the lives of Muslims than the general population, the vast majority believe that being Muslim and being British is entirely compatible. Yet, the report indicates that there are increasing concerns that religious prejudice towards Muslims is rising. While the British Muslim population has a younger age profile than the population as a whole, the findings shows that younger Muslims are a distinct group; they are more open in their views and have more diverse social networks – this is particularly the case for those who are graduates.The findings also show that public opinion towards Muslims is mixed. Muslims make up just under five percent of the population yet the British public think it’s three times this figure. And while the majority think that Islam is peaceful religion, they believe that most people perceive the religion in a negative way. Again, in the general population we also find that the views of younger people tend to be more positive and open towards Muslims than other age groups." So you may find that as the years pass in terms of "integration" the direction of travel may be the opposite to what you say........ I don't think so Prestwich, the Muslim population is still growing, many of the Middle Eastern immigrants happen to be Muslim ....but most importantly Judaism, nor ultra Orthodox Judaism, is not posing a direct threat and challenge to western values, there is no concept that others should change and conform to their belief systems.Pockets of Orthodox Judaism may indeed be separate which may result in different issues in the future. I work with young muslims at Universities and discuss these issues with them There is indeed a feeling/ reality of living in two cultures and generally they seem to be coping with it/ managing it very well..but a great many would swear allegiance to Islam rather than the UK.. ( most people probably give allegiance to their personal belief rather than country of birth)...which isn't a problem until there is a clash of law, belief, practice or local culture/ turf or a perceived clash. I believe that the growth and mission of Islam is a threat to cultural cohesion in this country and at least the differences need to be acknowledged and discussed. If you want to make the case that there is no threat or that Judaism is a bigger threat that's up to you to make.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 13:53:16 GMT
Actually John there's a huge increase in Ultra Orthodox Jews caused by the birth rate which is 7 children per family compared to 2 children per family in "mainstream" Jewish families and 3 children per Muslim family. At these current rates by 2031 the majority of Jewish children will be born into Ultra Orthodox families and in 60 years time the majority of British Jews will be Ultra Orthodox. The last major poll by Ipsos MORI shows that British Muslim attitudes are becoming more liberal as they pass through generations. The conclusion was as follows: "This report is an important study as it synthesises many of the surveys that have been done examining the attitudes of British Muslims as well as the attitudes of the British Public towards Muslims. The report highlights that British Muslims are a diverse group of people – much like the public as a whole. They have a strong sense of British identity and while religion does play a greater role in the lives of Muslims than the general population, the vast majority believe that being Muslim and being British is entirely compatible. Yet, the report indicates that there are increasing concerns that religious prejudice towards Muslims is rising. While the British Muslim population has a younger age profile than the population as a whole, the findings shows that younger Muslims are a distinct group; they are more open in their views and have more diverse social networks – this is particularly the case for those who are graduates.The findings also show that public opinion towards Muslims is mixed. Muslims make up just under five percent of the population yet the British public think it’s three times this figure. And while the majority think that Islam is peaceful religion, they believe that most people perceive the religion in a negative way. Again, in the general population we also find that the views of younger people tend to be more positive and open towards Muslims than other age groups." So you may find that as the years pass in terms of "integration" the direction of travel may be the opposite to what you say........ I don't think so Prestwich, the Muslim population is still growing, many of the Middle Eastern immigrants happen to be Muslim ....but most importantly Judaism, nor ultra Orthodox Judaism, is not posing a direct threat and challenge to western values, there is no concept that others should change and conform to their belief systems.Pockets of Orthodox Judaism may indeed be separate which may result in different issues in the future. I work with young muslims at Universities and discuss these issues with them There is indeed a feeling/ reality of living in two cultures and generally they seem to be coping with it/ managing it very well..but a great many would swear allegiance to Islam rather than the UK.. ( most people probably give allegiance to their personal belief rather than country of birth)...which isn't a problem until there is a clash of law, belief, practice or local culture/ turf or a perceived clash. I believe that the growth and mission of Islam is a threat to cultural cohesion in this country and at least the differences need to be acknowledged and discussed. If you want to make the case that there is no threat or that Judaism is a bigger threat that's up to you to make.I don't think many would dispute your points here BJR. I personally have no qualms with any of it apart from the fact that Prestwich hasn't made either of those claims. All he did was provide some substance to the Jewsish point that you had previously dismissed. But anyway, how does this topic really relate to the OP and subject of this thread? How come every left/right thread on here ends up being hijacked with anti-islam, right wing type posts on it. Don't we have enough other threads to post this stuff on. Surely the purpose of this thread is to focus on the left.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 14:21:28 GMT
I don't think so Prestwich, the Muslim population is still growing, many of the Middle Eastern immigrants happen to be Muslim ....but most importantly Judaism, nor ultra Orthodox Judaism, is not posing a direct threat and challenge to western values, there is no concept that others should change and conform to their belief systems.Pockets of Orthodox Judaism may indeed be separate which may result in different issues in the future. I work with young muslims at Universities and discuss these issues with them There is indeed a feeling/ reality of living in two cultures and generally they seem to be coping with it/ managing it very well..but a great many would swear allegiance to Islam rather than the UK.. ( most people probably give allegiance to their personal belief rather than country of birth)...which isn't a problem until there is a clash of law, belief, practice or local culture/ turf or a perceived clash. I believe that the growth and mission of Islam is a threat to cultural cohesion in this country and at least the differences need to be acknowledged and discussed. If you want to make the case that there is no threat or that Judaism is a bigger threat that's up to you to make.I don't think many would dispute your points here BJR. I personally have no qualms with any of it apart from the fact that Prestwich hasn't made either of those claims. All he did was provide some substance to the Jewsish point that you had previously dismissed. But anyway, how does this topic really relate to the OP and subject of this thread? How come every left/right thread on here ends up being hijacked with anti-islam, right wing type posts on it. Don't we have enough other threads to post this stuff on. Surely the purpose of this thread is to focus on the left. Strictly speaking I have not accused Prestwich of making either of those claims...I said " IF he wants to" ...it is me who is saying that Islam is a greater threat to cultural cohesion and Prestwich raised the possibility that that might not be the case in the future. It is relevant at this point in the thread simply because Trevor Phillips has been suspended from the Labour party almost precisely for the reasons that I am arguing....he has said many times that there is an issue with Islam and how the Labour party relate to Islamaphobia....it is, in my opinion, one of several reasons why the " future of the left"( presuming that Labour is part of the left) is threatened....I think that the Labour party have blindly aligned with Islam, in some cases without realising the consequences of the close association in respect of its traditional ( non Muslim) roots...and of course the sheer numbers of Muslims in the inner cities have become a sizable electorate....and means for Islam to gain more influence in local communities. Someone once said that Labour is in danger of becoming the Islam party.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2020 14:45:46 GMT
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 15:06:47 GMT
Not sure what drugs that guy is on. Allah and God are the same. It is used by Jews, Christians (Christian Arabs) and Muslims alike. Islam has two main branches - Sunni and Shia. Neither of which are particularly fond of the other.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 15:51:22 GMT
Not sure what drugs that guy is on. Allah and God are the same. It is used by Jews, Christians (Christian Arabs) and Muslims alike. Islam has two main branches - Sunni and Shia. Neither of which are particularly fond of the other. The monotheistic religions may share the the same roots for their names for " Jehovah, Allah, Yahweh" but the theologies are completely different ( I know that you are not saying that, I thought I'd just point it out)....
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