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Post by bathstoke on Dec 17, 2019 14:04:02 GMT
Because it happened on their watch Wether it be pensions, gold or NHS PFIs browns’ economic plan left us in a worse state to cope with it 100% if the Tories were in power it would all be their fault, hypocrisy at it's best. 9/11 happened on Labours watch, Was that their fault. You don’t ride the blows of a £1trillion just by not selling off the gold. The propaganda machine has done a great job of laying the World Banking crisis at Labours feet. Its a lie, but if people believe it...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:12:41 GMT
They don’t need to pursue a “hard left” agenda. But then Corbyn’s agenda was pretty much European Democratic Socialism and not “hard left” anyway. They allowed themselves to get carried away on the back of their manifesto launch though, it became a scattergun approach that people could see through..... And apparently a lot of Labour MPs are seeing through it now. Of course, they signed up to the manifesto and hoped NHS horror stories and Labour loyalty would save their seats. All of a sudden its a ridiculous manifesto and Corbyn's neutral stance on Brexit was a joke. The lack of bollocks in the Labour Party is astounding. The same people sticking the knife into Corbyn are the ones who have undermined his tenure from day one. They're an embarrassment.......
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 17, 2019 14:21:44 GMT
He's not thick in reality , do you consider the labour London elite intellectuals? Or just arrogant and stupid. No, not at all, I think Starmer is probably the smartest, and he's done well to come out of this without any real vitriol. Largely because he and Diane abbacus we kept away from the electorate for the whole of the campaign . He isn't a proper Marxist is he
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:28:03 GMT
No, not at all, I think Starmer is probably the smartest, and he's done well to come out of this without any real vitriol. Largely because he and Diane abbacus we kept away from the electorate for the whole of the campaign . He isn't a proper Marxist is he Depends what you mean by Marxist. Marxists are people who believe that the worker class will improve rights consistently by either uprising, protest or democracy (which they have over the past 100 years) until eventually communism is in effect a long way down the line, and life is measured not on 'money' but on your own passions and altruism, which is an unreachable utopia, in all likelihood. It's given a bad name based on the bastardised versions used by Stalin, Mao etc for their own gain. Kier is centre-left. I think Corbyn's 'leftness' is hugely overstated mind. If he believes in Marxism he believes it will be happening very slowly.
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 17, 2019 15:58:56 GMT
100% if the Tories were in power it would all be their fault, hypocrisy at it's best. 9/11 happened on Labours watch, Was that their fault. You don’t ride the blows of a £1trillion just by not selling off the gold. The propaganda machine has done a great job of laying the World Banking crisis at Labours feet. Its a lie, but if people believe it... I'm not saying it's their fault you divvy I'm making a point that if the Tories were in power they would get the blame too stop being paranoid.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 17, 2019 17:00:21 GMT
Which cost the British tax payer £1 trillion pounds. Why the fuck do people keep blaming Labour for it? Brown gave the Bank of England control of Interest rates. That doesn't cause a global financial crash. FFS. 😠 Because it happened on their watch Wether it be pensions, gold or NHS PFIs browns’ economic plan left us in a worse state to cope with it Labour didn't cause the financial crash. Irrespective of their response. If you want to know where it came from you need to look at all the financial rules and regulations that were abandoned in the City of London and Wall Street in the mid to late 1980s. This crash did not happen overnight but had been in the pipeline for years and years. It started in the USA with sub-prime lending and gradually spread throughout the entire Global financial system. But like most things in politics, people believe what they want to believe and don't let facts get in the way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 17:02:13 GMT
RLB and Rayner would usually be a strong ticket, but I have a feeling they wouldn't resonate well with most voters.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 17, 2019 17:40:32 GMT
RLB and Rayner would usually be a strong ticket, but I have a feeling they wouldn't resonate well with most voters. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 17:46:57 GMT
RLB and Rayner would usually be a strong ticket, but I have a feeling they wouldn't resonate well with most voters. Why? Rayner seems a bit too argumentative from the one appearance I've seen of her, and RLB isn't particularly charismatic. Two opposites in the public eye, both a little too far each way. I like them but I can imagine 'the people' may not.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 17, 2019 18:10:42 GMT
Rayner seems a bit too argumentative from the one appearance I've seen of her, and RLB isn't particularly charismatic. Two opposites in the public eye, both a little too far each way. I like them but I can imagine 'the people' may not. RLB isn't very bright either even though (or despite her) being a solicitor. No grasp of economics whatsoever. A terrible choice imo. I think Starmer is the person the Tories fear most. An interesting fact. In the 2019 election 47% of unskilled and unemployed workers voted Conservative. Only 34% voted Labour. That's a very worrying and sobering fact.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 18:26:25 GMT
Rayner seems a bit too argumentative from the one appearance I've seen of her, and RLB isn't particularly charismatic. Two opposites in the public eye, both a little too far each way. I like them but I can imagine 'the people' may not. RLB isn't very bright either even though (or despite her) being a solicitor. No grasp of economics whatsoever. A terrible choice imo. I think Starmer is the person the Tories fear most. An interesting fact. In the 2019 election 47% of unskilled and unemployed workers voted Conservative. Only 34% voted Labour. That's a very worrying and sobering fact. That last point is indeed terrifying. I don't even think the Tory's lies were the main problem either. Labour are going to struggle to gain back an increasingly entrenched public, especially without Scotland's help. Starmer is a strong contender, but he needs to show that he can win over the northern towns again. That said, Boris didn't really do much for them at all and won them, so hopefully some smaller 'real change' policies in the manifesto and a lack of brexit to contend with will mean that people are less likely to turn to Boris again. If he even lasts that long.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 17, 2019 18:30:39 GMT
Rayner seems a bit too argumentative from the one appearance I've seen of her, and RLB isn't particularly charismatic. Two opposites in the public eye, both a little too far each way. I like them but I can imagine 'the people' may not. RLB isn't very bright either even though (or despite her) being a solicitor. No grasp of economics whatsoever. A terrible choice imo. I think Starmer is the person the Tories fear most. An interesting fact. In the 2019 election 47% of unskilled and unemployed workers voted Conservative. Only 34% voted Labour. That's a very worrying and sobering fact. I'm not that knowledgeable of Starmer's political opinions, but he's always come across pretty well. Spoke well in the Brexit debates, and avoided some of the more extreme nonsense that was surrounding the discussion. Seems to have come from relatively humble beginnings and made a success of himself as well. He seems to be able to compromise too - despite not being a Corbynista he took roles in his shadow cabinet. That may bode well in reuniting both sides of the party.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 17, 2019 18:37:39 GMT
RLB isn't very bright either even though (or despite her) being a solicitor. No grasp of economics whatsoever. A terrible choice imo. I think Starmer is the person the Tories fear most. An interesting fact. In the 2019 election 47% of unskilled and unemployed workers voted Conservative. Only 34% voted Labour. That's a very worrying and sobering fact. That last point is indeed terrifying. I don't even think the Tory's lies were the main problem either. Labour are going to struggle to gain back an increasingly entrenched public, especially without Scotland's help. Starmer is a strong contender, but he needs to show that he can win over the northern towns again. That said, Boris didn't really do much for them at all and won them, so hopefully some smaller 'real change' policies in the manifesto and a lack of brexit to contend with will mean that people are less likely to turn to Boris again. If he even lasts that long. It will be interesting to see if our Local Authority budgets continue to be slashed by central government now that we've got 3 Tory MPs. My guess is that they'll be increased giving the impression that the Tory MPs have done 'wonders for Stoke on Trent' improving public services etc etc etc Rinse and repeat across Labour's old industrial heartlands. Those seats will therefore be very difficult to win back. Personally, I think it will be at least a decade before Labour have any realistic chance of getting into Office.. And that will only be as part of a coalition government.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 18:42:45 GMT
That last point is indeed terrifying. I don't even think the Tory's lies were the main problem either. Labour are going to struggle to gain back an increasingly entrenched public, especially without Scotland's help. Starmer is a strong contender, but he needs to show that he can win over the northern towns again. That said, Boris didn't really do much for them at all and won them, so hopefully some smaller 'real change' policies in the manifesto and a lack of brexit to contend with will mean that people are less likely to turn to Boris again. If he even lasts that long. It will be interesting to see if our Local Authority budgets continue to be slashed by central government now that we've got 3 Tory MPs. My guess is that they'll be increased giving the impression that the Tory MPs have done 'wonders for Stoke on Trent' improving public services etc etc etc The reality of course being that local authorities financing by central government was changed in the 1980s purely for that purpose. To destroy Labour controlled authorities. Rinse and repeat across Labour's old industrial heartlands. Those seats will therefore be very difficult to win back. Personally, I think it will be at least a decade before Labour have any realistic chance of getting into Office.. And that will only be as part of a coalition government. Coalition is fine for me. The biggest issue I have with that is climate policy. The tories simply cannot allow themselves to be swayed by business on climate policy. 10 years of 'oh look we said we'll do it by 2050' whilst doing nothing is going to end incredibly badly for us as a species.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 17, 2019 18:47:20 GMT
It will be interesting to see if our Local Authority budgets continue to be slashed by central government now that we've got 3 Tory MPs. My guess is that they'll be increased giving the impression that the Tory MPs have done 'wonders for Stoke on Trent' improving public services etc etc etc The reality of course being that local authorities financing by central government was changed in the 1980s purely for that purpose. To destroy Labour controlled authorities. Rinse and repeat across Labour's old industrial heartlands. Those seats will therefore be very difficult to win back. Personally, I think it will be at least a decade before Labour have any realistic chance of getting into Office.. And that will only be as part of a coalition government. Coalition is fine for me. The biggest issue I have with that is climate policy. The tories simply cannot allow themselves to be swayed by business on climate policy. 10 years of 'oh look we said we'll do it by 2050' whilst doing nothing is going to end incredibly badly for us as a species. I must admit that I didn't know that much about climate change until I spoke to my nephew whose studying theoretical physics at York. I do now. Terrifying.
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Post by hoffgreen on Dec 17, 2019 19:17:22 GMT
Coalition is fine for me. The biggest issue I have with that is climate policy. The tories simply cannot allow themselves to be swayed by business on climate policy. 10 years of 'oh look we said we'll do it by 2050' whilst doing nothing is going to end incredibly badly for us as a species. I must admit that I didn't know that much about climate change until I spoke to my nephew whose studying theoretical physics at York. I do now. Terrifying.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 17, 2019 19:22:13 GMT
I must admit that I didn't know that much about climate change until I spoke to my nephew whose studying theoretical physics at York. I do now. Terrifying. Beam me up Scotty... 😲😄
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 17, 2019 19:26:21 GMT
I must admit that I didn't know that much about climate change until I spoke to my nephew whose studying theoretical physics at York. I do now. Terrifying. I'm astonished by that. I thought he had pointy ears.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 17, 2019 19:28:20 GMT
And apparently a lot of Labour MPs are seeing through it now. Of course, they signed up to the manifesto and hoped NHS horror stories and Labour loyalty would save their seats. All of a sudden its a ridiculous manifesto and Corbyn's neutral stance on Brexit was a joke. The lack of bollocks in the Labour Party is astounding. The same people sticking the knife into Corbyn are the ones who have undermined his tenure from day one. They're an embarrassment....... Is Rachel Reeves one?
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 17, 2019 19:42:31 GMT
I must admit that I didn't know that much about climate change until I spoke to my nephew whose studying theoretical physics at York. I do now. Terrifying. The ice age is coming The sun is zooming in Meltdown expected Twheat is growin' thin Engines stop running But I have no fear
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 17, 2019 19:59:47 GMT
The ice age is coming The sun is zooming in Meltdown expected Twheat is growin' thin Engines stop running But I have no fear 'Cause there's Klingon's off the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow...
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Post by Rick Grimes on Dec 17, 2019 21:50:17 GMT
It will be interesting to see if our Local Authority budgets continue to be slashed by central government now that we've got 3 Tory MPs. My guess is that they'll be increased giving the impression that the Tory MPs have done 'wonders for Stoke on Trent' improving public services etc etc etc The reality of course being that local authorities financing by central government was changed in the 1980s purely for that purpose. To destroy Labour controlled authorities. Rinse and repeat across Labour's old industrial heartlands. Those seats will therefore be very difficult to win back. Personally, I think it will be at least a decade before Labour have any realistic chance of getting into Office.. And that will only be as part of a coalition government. Coalition is fine for me. The biggest issue I have with that is climate policy. The tories simply cannot allow themselves to be swayed by business on climate policy. 10 years of 'oh look we said we'll do it by 2050' whilst doing nothing is going to end incredibly badly for us as a species. Regarding climate change isn’t anything we do ultimately pointless unless we can somehow get India and China to reduce the impact that they are having?
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 17, 2019 21:57:45 GMT
Coalition is fine for me. The biggest issue I have with that is climate policy. The tories simply cannot allow themselves to be swayed by business on climate policy. 10 years of 'oh look we said we'll do it by 2050' whilst doing nothing is going to end incredibly badly for us as a species. Regarding climate change isn’t anything we do ultimately pointless unless we can somehow get India and China to reduce the impact that they are having? And Greta Thunderkid to stop with the bullshit like her doing a "Corbyn" on the train.
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Post by hoffgreen on Dec 17, 2019 22:13:19 GMT
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Post by georgieboy52 on Dec 18, 2019 0:38:51 GMT
With Corbyn seemingly dead in the water I was checking the odds to see who might lead the fight back if you like. Keir Starmer and Rebecca Long-Bailey joint favourites at 3/1 and Angela Rayner a distant third place at 9/1. It's going to be heavy lifting for whoever it is. Got to get more power back in the hands of the MP's who face off to the public at large and wrestle it back from the party fanatics who do not. If they don't I can't see any way forward for them. Yvette has the balls for the job.
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Post by georgieboy52 on Dec 18, 2019 0:46:46 GMT
Head and shoulders better than any of the other female contenders. Tough enough and smart.
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Post by upthefud on Dec 18, 2019 5:19:35 GMT
Needs to be someone who believes in Brexit and democracy if they're to win back areas like ours
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Post by felonious on Dec 18, 2019 6:23:53 GMT
The ice age is coming The sun is zooming in Meltdown expected Twheat is growin' thin Engines stop running But I have no fear Two suns in the sunset Could be the human race is run
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 18, 2019 6:56:56 GMT
The ice age is coming The sun is zooming in Meltdown expected Twheat is growin' thin Engines stop running But I have no fear Two suns in the sunset Could be the human race is run Horsemen on the horizon The pail one says it’s begun
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 18, 2019 8:04:30 GMT
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