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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 17:20:12 GMT
Sanders has surrounded himself with the right allies and has gone on the front foot against critics who have tried to brand him antisemitic and a threat to Americans both domestically and abroad. Everything that Corbyn and the Labour Party didn’t do....
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 23, 2020 17:53:16 GMT
Sanders has surrounded himself with the right allies and has gone on the front foot against critics who have tried to brand him antisemitic and a threat to Americans both domestically and abroad. Everything that Corbyn and the Labour Party didn’t do.... So was it cowardice on Corbyn’s part not to fight or something else...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 18:07:15 GMT
Sanders has surrounded himself with the right allies and has gone on the front foot against critics who have tried to brand him antisemitic and a threat to Americans both domestically and abroad. Everything that Corbyn and the Labour Party didn’t do.... So was it cowardice on Corbyn’s part not to fight or something else... In fighting the antisemitism allegations absolutely. And in letting members of the PLP undermine him from day one yes......
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 23, 2020 22:02:31 GMT
Pay reparations? Who to? What for? Are you mentally I'll? As McDonnell said, sharing green tech would be a good start. As would sharing other tech. Probably to former colonies. And because we as a nation murdered, pillaged, raped, stole and set back a huge portion of the Earth by hundreds of years in their development, alongside setting off the industrial revolution which led to the climate crisis we have today.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 23, 2020 22:09:28 GMT
As McDonnell said, sharing green tech would be a good start. As would sharing other tech. Probably to former colonies. And because we as a nation murdered, pillaged, raped, stole and set back a huge portion of the Earth by hundreds of years in their development, alongside setting off the industrial revolution which led to the climate crisis we have today. And they wonder why no bugger votes for them anymore
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 23, 2020 22:25:03 GMT
And they wonder why no bugger votes for them anymore Certainly no one with an ounce of common sense, politics of the school common room not the real world ! unrealistic pie in the sky ideology of the cosseted and champagne socialists, it seems the minority are destined to be forever losers I wonder why that is
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 20:58:37 GMT
And they wonder why no bugger votes for them anymore Certainly no one with an ounce of common sense, politics of the school common room not the real world ! unrealistic pie in the sky ideology of the cosseted and champagne socialists, it seems the minority are destined to be forever losers I wonder why that is Okay, what's unrealistic, specifically about sharing green tech with commonwealth and old colony nations?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 21:09:40 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least.
It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 24, 2020 21:31:01 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least. It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election. Principles would be telling a racist like this to leave the room but same old same old
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Post by Davef on Feb 24, 2020 21:33:04 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least. It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election. How the hell is she going to deliver a Green Industrial Revolution as leader of the opposition? Or is she going to deliver it to the planet on which she currently resides?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 21:35:47 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least. It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election. Principles would be telling a racist like this to leave the room but same old same old I'd imagine speakers dont control who leaves the room while they're speaking tbh. But hope she was negative in her response.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 21:36:42 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least. It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election. How the hell is she going to deliver a Green Industrial Revolution as leader of the opposition? Or is she going to deliver it to the planet on which she currently resides? She's saying they'll win the next GE and do so, standard stuff for someone wanting to be leader. Seem confident you can win.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 24, 2020 21:47:33 GMT
Principles would be telling a racist like this to leave the room but same old same old I'd imagine speakers dont control who leaves the room while they're speaking tbh. But hope she was negative in her response. No she completely ignored the israeli lobby comment, she could have asked for him to be thrown out or taken it head look on you tube with how the late John Mccain dealt with a woman saying she was scared of Obama and he was a muslim.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 24, 2020 22:32:49 GMT
Certainly no one with an ounce of common sense, politics of the school common room not the real world ! unrealistic pie in the sky ideology of the cosseted and champagne socialists, it seems the minority are destined to be forever losers I wonder why that is Okay, what's unrealistic, specifically about sharing green tech with commonwealth and old colony nations? She can dream up whatever she wants to, the reality is she will never be PM of this country, free beer tomorrow but tomorrow never comes, free unicorns, free university education for all, nationalise everything, unisex toilets, free health service to all comers from wherever, tax the rich to fund the Marxist utopia (until they Fcuck off), much this has been tried before.......... it failed and people know it that is why it will never return, get used to it common room politics is very old hat, you are banging a drum that broke in the 1970's.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 24, 2020 22:34:53 GMT
How the hell is she going to deliver a Green Industrial Revolution as leader of the opposition? Or is she going to deliver it to the planet on which she currently resides? She's saying they'll win the next GE and do so, standard stuff for someone wanting to be leader. Seem confident you can win. I am saying I will win the lottery next year standard stuff for the deluded, next year we will be millionaires Rodney
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 22:37:44 GMT
Okay, what's unrealistic, specifically about sharing green tech with commonwealth and old colony nations? She can dream up whatever she wants to, the reality is she will never be PM of this country, free beer tomorrow but tomorrow never comes, free unicorns, free university education for all, nationalise everything, unisex toilets, free health service to all comers from wherever, tax the rich to fund the Marxist utopia (until they Fcuck off), much this has been tried before.......... it failed and people know it that is why it will never return, get used to it common room politics is very old hat, you are banging a drum that broke in the 1970's. Okay so you've ignored my question. thanks.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 24, 2020 22:38:57 GMT
If you could sum up corbyns labour party in one member its here.......
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 8:41:30 GMT
I'd imagine speakers dont control who leaves the room while they're speaking tbh. But hope she was negative in her response. No she completely ignored the israeli lobby comment, she could have asked for him to be thrown out or taken it head look on you tube with how the late John Mccain dealt with a woman saying she was scared of Obama and he was a muslim. I have no issue with the phrase "Israeli lobby" If he'd have have said "Jewish lobby" than absolutely that is antisemitic. Of the three people he mentions for example, two aren't Jewish although all three are members of the Labour Friends of Israel. There is plenty of documented evidence to show lobbying by various Israeli groups within British politics, it's just a fact. And in America the phrase Israel lobby seems to be absolutely normal, so not sure why it's different on this side of the pond? Whether you agree with his summary or not is a side issue, I wouldn't call it antisemitic. That said I also think the question was inappropriate for the occasion and it's all becoming a tad obsessive. On his comments around Zionism I thought RLB refuted his claim and answered fairly well, I had no issue with it. I expect someone will respond by quoting the IHRA definition of antisemitism, however my argument was clear from the off that the reason it needed to be challenged was purely on the grounds that it makes criticism of the state of Israel antisemitic which is nonsense......
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 8:42:42 GMT
If you could sum up corbyns labour party in one member its here....... Politics is an emotive subject, but she's just embarrassed herself their to be honest.....
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 25, 2020 9:19:06 GMT
If you could sum up corbyns labour party in one member its here....... Politics is an emotive subject, but she's just embarrassed herself their to be honest..... Which one?
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 25, 2020 9:56:11 GMT
Makes a good point about principles needing to be sold rather than solely voting on electability. Would she be torn apart by the public akin to Corbyn? She does seem slightly more likeable and relatable at least. It's a really really difficult decision ahead of Labour members this next week or so, no-one really stands out and all of them will have a big fight on to push the party forward should they win this leadership election. I dont want to piss on yer chips Rebecca love, but the Green Industrial Revolution already started quite a while ago….. Kind of missed the boat there…..
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2020 10:44:46 GMT
No she completely ignored the israeli lobby comment, she could have asked for him to be thrown out or taken it head look on you tube with how the late John Mccain dealt with a woman saying she was scared of Obama and he was a muslim. I have no issue with the phrase "Israeli lobby" If he'd have have said "Jewish lobby" than absolutely that is antisemitic. Of the three people he mentions for example, two aren't Jewish although all three are members of the Labour Friends of Israel. There is plenty of documented evidence to show lobbying by various Israeli groups within British politics, it's just a fact. And in America the phrase Israel lobby seems to be absolutely normal, so not sure why it's different on this side of the pond? Whether you agree with his summary or not is a side issue, I wouldn't call it antisemitic. That said I also think the question was inappropriate for the occasion and it's all becoming a tad obsessive. On his comments around Zionism I thought RLB refuted his claim and answered fairly well, I had no issue with it. I expect someone will respond by quoting the IHRA definition of antisemitism, however my argument was clear from the off that the reason it needed to be challenged was purely on the grounds that it makes criticism of the state of Israel antisemitic which is nonsense...... The implication is that opposition to corbyn was on the basis they were paid to do this by israel so yeah thats antisemitic, it's also nonsense as I dont know a single serious politician that doesn't advocate a two state solution so the idea this is all about Corbyns support for palestine is laughable almost as laughable as the idea their opposition cost the election. The turn around on brexit along with the response to the salisbury poisioning meant people couldn't dismiss his past views as irrelevant as it was pretty clear nothing had changed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 10:49:38 GMT
I have no issue with the phrase "Israeli lobby" If he'd have have said "Jewish lobby" than absolutely that is antisemitic. Of the three people he mentions for example, two aren't Jewish although all three are members of the Labour Friends of Israel. There is plenty of documented evidence to show lobbying by various Israeli groups within British politics, it's just a fact. And in America the phrase Israel lobby seems to be absolutely normal, so not sure why it's different on this side of the pond? Whether you agree with his summary or not is a side issue, I wouldn't call it antisemitic. That said I also think the question was inappropriate for the occasion and it's all becoming a tad obsessive. On his comments around Zionism I thought RLB refuted his claim and answered fairly well, I had no issue with it. I expect someone will respond by quoting the IHRA definition of antisemitism, however my argument was clear from the off that the reason it needed to be challenged was purely on the grounds that it makes criticism of the state of Israel antisemitic which is nonsense...... The implication is that opposition to corbyn was on the basis they were paid to do this by israel so yeah thats antisemitic, it's also nonsense as I dont know a single serious politician that doesn't advocate a two state solution so the idea this is all about Corbyns support for palestine is laughable almost as laughable as the idea their opposition cost the election. The turn around on brexit along with the response to the salisbury poisioning meant people couldn't dismiss his past views as irrelevant as it was pretty clear nothing had changed. How would implying Tom Watson (not Jewish) received money from Israel to gain influence/oppose Corbyn be antisemitic just out of interest?
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2020 11:58:11 GMT
The implication is that opposition to corbyn was on the basis they were paid to do this by israel so yeah thats antisemitic, it's also nonsense as I dont know a single serious politician that doesn't advocate a two state solution so the idea this is all about Corbyns support for palestine is laughable almost as laughable as the idea their opposition cost the election. The turn around on brexit along with the response to the salisbury poisioning meant people couldn't dismiss his past views as irrelevant as it was pretty clear nothing had changed. How would implying Tom Watson (not Jewish) received money from Israel to gain influence/oppose Corbyn be antisemitic just out of interest? Its part of a trope jews want to control the world the idea that the leadership of the labour party is in the top 10,000 issues for the israeli government is laughable, there are also jewish mps mentioned that plays into the dual loyalty trope.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 25, 2020 12:10:31 GMT
The implication is that opposition to corbyn was on the basis they were paid to do this by israel so yeah thats antisemitic, it's also nonsense as I dont know a single serious politician that doesn't advocate a two state solution so the idea this is all about Corbyns support for palestine is laughable almost as laughable as the idea their opposition cost the election. The turn around on brexit along with the response to the salisbury poisioning meant people couldn't dismiss his past views as irrelevant as it was pretty clear nothing had changed. How would implying Tom Watson (not Jewish) received money from Israel to gain influence/oppose Corbyn be antisemitic just out of interest? No he was busy destroying the lives of others with wild accusations of child abuse Powerful thing class envy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 12:11:08 GMT
How would implying Tom Watson (not Jewish) received money from Israel to gain influence/oppose Corbyn be antisemitic just out of interest? Its part of a trope jews want to control the world the idea that the leadership of the labour party is in the top 10,000 issues for the israeli government is laughable, there are also jewish mps mentioned that plays into the dual loyalty trope. I repeat the term "Israel lobby" is perfectly normal in the USA. It was acceptable as recent as 2011 in our mainstream media until the goalposts changed: It's you conflating the "Israel lobby" with Jews.....
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2020 12:45:44 GMT
Its part of a trope jews want to control the world the idea that the leadership of the labour party is in the top 10,000 issues for the israeli government is laughable, there are also jewish mps mentioned that plays into the dual loyalty trope. I repeat the term "Israel lobby" is perfectly normal in the USA. It was acceptable as recent as 2011 in our mainstream media until the goalposts changed: It's you conflating the "Israel lobby" with Jews..... The member who asked it has form, pretending the criticism in this instance is of israel is as believable as all those far right types whose sudden interest in animal welfare means they are against halal meat. I dont think the goalposts have been moved no one has denied that they are people who are paid to lobby for israel, just like there are for many other countries its the idea that they have any interest or sought to influence the election of the labour party that veers it off into racist loony toon town.
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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 25, 2020 12:50:58 GMT
I repeat the term "Israel lobby" is perfectly normal in the USA. It was acceptable as recent as 2011 in our mainstream media until the goalposts changed: It's you conflating the "Israel lobby" with Jews..... The member who asked it has form, pretending the criticism in this instance is of israel is as believable as all those far right types whose sudden interest in animal welfare means they are against halal meat. I dont think the goalposts have been moved no one has denied that they are people who are paid to lobby for israel, just like there are for many other countries its the idea that they have any interest or sought to influence the election of the labour party that veers it off into racist loony toon town. You have form too in fairness, fyd. Laura Kuenssberg has a "Jewish sounding name" and so on. It's all abhorrent, whether it's you doing it or a Labour member.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 13:16:12 GMT
I repeat the term "Israel lobby" is perfectly normal in the USA. It was acceptable as recent as 2011 in our mainstream media until the goalposts changed: It's you conflating the "Israel lobby" with Jews..... The member who asked it has form, pretending the criticism in this instance is of israel is as believable as all those far right types whose sudden interest in animal welfare means they are against halal meat. I dont think the goalposts have been moved no one has denied that they are people who are paid to lobby for israel, just like there are for many other countries its the idea that they have any interest or sought to influence the election of the labour party that veers it off into racist loony toon town. Whether he has form or not is irrelevant to the specific clip that I commented on. That's all I was commenting on at the time. So if you agree that the there is an Israel Lobby, I have no idea why you would deem that antisemitic? And if they have no interest why do the likes of Sir Trevor Chinn (BICOM board member), Poju Zabludowicz (BICOM board member) bankroll politicians such as Ruth Smeeth, Tom Watson and John Mann (all on the public record), I'm pretty sure it's not because they're desperate for a socialist government. I'm sure your average voter in Stoke-on-Trent, West Bromwich and Bassetlaw was really interested in their elected representatives flying off to Israel and the USA to hold the Israeli flag under the banner of the "Labour Friends of Israel" when they were struggling to make ends meet back home. You can accuse me or other people of being in "racist loony toon town", but lobbying exists, it's a murky business and to highlight it isn't antisemitic in any way, shape or form. As I’ve said on here before, change the country in question from Israel to Russia and imagine a scenario where politicians formed a group called the “Labour/Conservative friends of Russia” then flew off to Moscow to champion trade deals whilst holding the Russian flag up. Then seeing them get caught on camera brokering dodgy deals with members of the Russian Embassy. Whilst getting regular monthly 5 figure donations to a particular politician. What would the reaction be?
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Post by heyzeus on Feb 25, 2020 13:22:40 GMT
She can dream up whatever she wants to, the reality is she will never be PM of this country, free beer tomorrow but tomorrow never comes, free unicorns, free university education for all, nationalise everything, unisex toilets, free health service to all comers from wherever, tax the rich to fund the Marxist utopia (until they Fcuck off), much this has been tried before.......... it failed and people know it that is why it will never return, get used to it common room politics is very old hat, you are banging a drum that broke in the 1970's. Okay so you've ignored my question. thanks.
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