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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 16, 2020 13:38:19 GMT
So I just watched Raynor on Marr. She's dreadful. So someone on an online messageboard who'll never vote Labour as long as they live thinks Raynor [sic] is dreadful. Bet she's quaking in her boots
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 16, 2020 15:42:43 GMT
Who is the current deputy leader of the Conservative Party Roj? I know Theresa had David Liddington so who has Boris appointed? (I won't make any comments about Cummings*) We don't have one. Is this a Johnson decision not to have one or has it just not been announced yet?
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Post by georgieboy52 on Feb 16, 2020 15:56:48 GMT
Free movement ends when we leave the EU said Gloria Raynor this morning on the Marr show.
But we don't want a points based system-i paraphrase.
So what the fuck DO you want Amgela ?
It's clear that Brits are sick of mealy-mouthed Labour and their policy on immigration.
You are not fooling us, Starmer, Wrong-Daily or Mandy.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 16, 2020 16:18:12 GMT
Is this a Johnson decision not to have one or has it just not been announced yet? Hardly used the position officially. Lidington was a right hand man, deputy by default. Deputy Leader of the Conservative Party
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 16, 2020 16:20:25 GMT
Free movement ends when we leave the EU said Gloria Raynor this morning on the Marr show. But we don't want a points based system-i paraphrase. So what the fuck DO you want Amgela ? It's clear that Brits are sick of mealy-mouthed Labour and their policy on immigration. You are not fooling us, Starmer, Wrong-Daily or Mandy. She was useless. The usual soundbites. No substance.
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Post by millennialfalcon on Feb 16, 2020 16:23:55 GMT
Free movement ends when we leave the EU said Gloria Raynor this morning on the Marr show. But we don't want a points based system-i paraphrase. So what the fuck DO you want Amgela ? It's clear that Brits are sick of mealy-mouthed Labour and their policy on immigration. You are not fooling us, Starmer, Wrong-Daily or Mandy. I think it's important to have an immigration system that respects everyone and treats everyone positively
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 16, 2020 20:59:14 GMT
Doesn't she mean over estimate?
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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 16, 2020 21:24:15 GMT
Doesn't she mean over estimate? Seriously mate, who cares what members of the Tory Party think?! Why don't you just move on?! Bizarre that you're so obsessed
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 16, 2020 23:32:21 GMT
I thought Nandy at least had commonsense well.....
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Post by serpico on Feb 17, 2020 15:50:33 GMT
I know they're are well worn phrases but the woke, social justice warriors have destroyed left wing politics both in the UK and the US, that is what has caused this existential crisis on the liberal-left of politics in the west, people are put off by it and its driving them to the right.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 17, 2020 16:41:34 GMT
George gets it.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 17, 2020 16:46:09 GMT
I know they're are well worn phrases but the woke, social justice warriors have destroyed left wing politics both in the UK and the US, that is what has caused this existential crisis on the liberal-left of politics in the west, people are put off by it and its driving them to the right. Funny enough a couple of days ago my brother who was until a couple of years ago a active member for over forty years of the labour party phoned me up and after are normal lengthy conversation on the subject of pigeon racing we dropped into politics He turned round and said all this pc bolocks has gone to far Labour is finished until they can regain the trust of people like my brother who spent hours knocking on doors etc And start talking about what the man/woman on the street is worried about not the shit spouted by endless focus groups
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Post by serpico on Feb 17, 2020 20:35:59 GMT
I know they're are well worn phrases but the woke, social justice warriors have destroyed left wing politics both in the UK and the US, that is what has caused this existential crisis on the liberal-left of politics in the west, people are put off by it and its driving them to the right. Funny enough a couple of days ago my brother who was until a couple of years ago a active member for over forty years of the labour party phoned me up and after are normal lengthy conversation on the subject of pigeon racing we dropped into politics He turned round and said all this pc bolocks has gone to far Labour is finished until they can regain the trust of people like my brother who spent hours knocking on doors etc And start talking about what the man/woman on the street is worried about not the shit spouted by endless focus groups Playing woke politics is a losing hand, you're pandering to a tiny minority of weirdos on social media platforms like twitter, everyone else thinks its all fucking ridiculous, left leaning parties will continue to haemorrhage support if they keep going down this road.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 21:22:40 GMT
It's a weird position for me, because I believe that RLB is very much correct in that her policies are not 'Corbynism' and that a lot of the last Labour manifesto was very good. She's removed some of the rubbish and been pretty okay for me so far.
The issue is, she will never win.
Not that I think any Labour candidate stands much of a chance anyway, but she definitely won't win back traditional labour voters.
It's very worrying tbh. I don't know how to win back traditional Labour voters because I just don't think they identify with socialist values any more.
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Post by Davef on Feb 17, 2020 21:40:54 GMT
Do Labour really think they're going to attract lost voters with this kind of nonsense?
In fact, they're in danger of losing voters who stuck with them in December.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 21:42:08 GMT
It's a weird position for me, because I believe that RLB is very much correct in that her policies are not 'Corbynism' and that a lot of the last Labour manifesto was very good. She's removed some of the rubbish and been pretty okay for me so far. The issue is, she will never win. Not that I think any Labour candidate stands much of a chance anyway, but she definitely won't win back traditional labour voters. It's very worrying tbh. I don't know how to win back traditional Labour voters because I just don't think they identify with socialist values any more. It will be Starmer can't wait until the press/media get their teeth into his role as DPP, I have a feeling the ride Corbyn got will have been a walk in the park.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 21:44:54 GMT
It's a weird position for me, because I believe that RLB is very much correct in that her policies are not 'Corbynism' and that a lot of the last Labour manifesto was very good. She's removed some of the rubbish and been pretty okay for me so far. The issue is, she will never win. Not that I think any Labour candidate stands much of a chance anyway, but she definitely won't win back traditional labour voters. It's very worrying tbh. I don't know how to win back traditional Labour voters because I just don't think they identify with socialist values any more. Have you just woken up to the smell of coffee ?, the majority of the Western world are rejecting Socialism there is a very good reason for that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 21:47:48 GMT
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Feb 17, 2020 21:51:55 GMT
I don't think the working class has rejected socialism, I think that if socialism is what the Labour Party is currently espousing, then socialism is rejecting the working class.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 21:59:34 GMT
I don't think the working class has rejected socialism, I think that if socialism is what the Labour Party is currently espousing, then socialism is rejecting the working class. How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class?
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 21:59:50 GMT
I stand corrected why has it gone so wrong for socialism in the UK ? though I await to see the actual results of this socialist upsurge in the states.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 22:02:31 GMT
I stand corrected why has it gone so wrong for socialism in the UK ? though I await to see the actual results of this socialist upsurge in the states. It is genuinely a difficult question! I think they've got the selling of it wrong to be honest. There was a backlash in the 2010s against neoliberalism and 'Blair'-style governance, which conservative governments managed to utilise that to their advantage far better than the left did. I wish I had the answer really! Bernie is getting similar treatment to Corbyn in the states it seems, most Dem news sources are refusing to name him in their reporting of primary results, despite him winning!
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 22:05:17 GMT
I don't think the working class has rejected socialism, I think that if socialism is what the Labour Party is currently espousing, then socialism is rejecting the working class. How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class? Makes you wonder why so many rejected it in the election, should we demand a another election now we know the benefits to us poor downtrodden minions ? tax the rich to feed the poor great idea makes you wonder why no one thought about it before ............. what happens when the rich fcuk off though ?
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 22:06:45 GMT
I stand corrected why has it gone so wrong for socialism in the UK ? though I await to see the actual results of this socialist upsurge in the states. It is genuinely a difficult question! I think they've got the selling of it wrong to be honest. There was a backlash in the 2010s against neoliberalism and 'Blair'-style governance, which conservative governments managed to utilise that to their advantage far better than the left did. I wish I had the answer really! Bernie is getting similar treatment to Corbyn in the states it seems, most Dem news sources are refusing to name him in their reporting of primary results, despite him winning! Maybe because he is a bit gammon.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Feb 17, 2020 22:11:53 GMT
I don't think the working class has rejected socialism, I think that if socialism is what the Labour Party is currently espousing, then socialism is rejecting the working class. How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class? You're embodying the view that socialism is for people that think like you to decide it's modern definition. The working class have not become Tories, they just identify themselves less with the direction of the Labour Party than they do with the Tories. This comes down to the fundamentals of what your party is about, and the low paid people that you should be representing. The working class see a party arguing over things that are of zero concern to them. The Labour Party should start to listen to the people they say they represent and start to represent them again in a way they can understand. It's right that minority interests should be listened to and respected, but Labour has become the party for the few instead of the many.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 17, 2020 22:37:03 GMT
How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class? You're embodying the view that socialism is for people that think like you to decide it's modern definition. The working class have not become Tories, they just identify themselves less with the direction of the Labour Party than they do with the Tories. This comes down to the fundamentals of what your party is about, and the low paid people that you should be representing. The working class see a party arguing over things that are of zero concern to them. The Labour Party should start to listen to the people they say they represent and start to represent them again in a way they can understand. It's right that minority interests should be listened to and respected, but Labour has become the party for the few instead of the many. The few but not the Jew
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Post by adri2008 on Feb 17, 2020 23:03:20 GMT
Too much 'woke' bollocks which appeals to the already politically engaged and minority protest groups. Meanwhile Labour's lost core support (not to mention floating voters) are completely disengaged. I was leaning towards Nandy but she seems to be engaging in such nonsense now too though I guess she needs to broaden her support to have any chance.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 23:09:43 GMT
How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class? Makes you wonder why so many rejected it in the election, should we demand a another election now we know the benefits to us poor downtrodden minions ? tax the rich to feed the poor great idea makes you wonder why no one thought about it before ............. what happens when the rich fcuk off though ? not like you to miss the point of my post.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 23:12:30 GMT
How so? Socialism is the increase in spending on public infrastructure for the working classes who need it by means of taxation of the more wealthy. E.G. more spending on NHS, nationalising rail, water, internet etc. How isn't that aimed at the working class? You're embodying the view that socialism is for people that think like you to decide it's modern definition. The working class have not become Tories, they just identify themselves less with the direction of the Labour Party than they do with the Tories. This comes down to the fundamentals of what your party is about, and the low paid people that you should be representing. The working class see a party arguing over things that are of zero concern to them. The Labour Party should start to listen to the people they say they represent and start to represent them again in a way they can understand. It's right that minority interests should be listened to and respected, but Labour has become the party for the few instead of the many. I never said they've become tories. And I think the Labour Party are largely working for the same fundamentals, but they are worse at getting that over to the masses. I agree with the understand part, Labour have been awful compared with the Tories at getting their view across as reasonable and useful. I don't know how they solve it, because I do not feel like my views reflect the popular view of the UK currently, so it's difficult for me to pick based on who might do well in a GE. That's my original point about the leadership contest anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 23:13:10 GMT
You're embodying the view that socialism is for people that think like you to decide it's modern definition. The working class have not become Tories, they just identify themselves less with the direction of the Labour Party than they do with the Tories. This comes down to the fundamentals of what your party is about, and the low paid people that you should be representing. The working class see a party arguing over things that are of zero concern to them. The Labour Party should start to listen to the people they say they represent and start to represent them again in a way they can understand. It's right that minority interests should be listened to and respected, but Labour has become the party for the few instead of the many. The few but not the Jew Brilliant, pretend that's the reason you dislike Labour.
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