|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:19:11 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids.
It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education.
As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species.
In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Mar 9, 2020 15:36:53 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. But that’s just the way it is. Not just here, but all the world over. The same kids are likely to have better health too. And are likely to have better access to certain sports facilities, although the top footballers, boxers, snooker players etc will still originate from few drawers down. I could go on and on about the inequalities of life and agree that it is “unfair”. But life is unfair. Period. Nobody stops kids making the most of the lot they have drawn though (usually) so some kids make it to become whatever they want to be, whether that is wealthy, educated, famous, well travelled, or whatever is your bag. It CAN be done. And, you might want to reflect on the fact that a "well funded education system" requires rich, successful individuals to pay for it. It may be unfair, but some people have to succeed just as some have to "fail". We cannot all be even or equal.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 15:36:59 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. I find it a bit strange that someone who comments on the morality of private school education is also someone who earns a living from it. Ever considered going to work in a public school and giving those kids the same level of education as the private ones get. Facilities won't be as defining a factor as the quality of the teachers I expect. Though i guess teachers in private schools get paid more.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:41:17 GMT
Finland has the worlds best educational system, they’re raising standard for everyone not just a small percentage... There are stark differences though most have fewer than 100 children and although funded by the government there are independent/ private schools. They do nothing that can't be replicated in large parts. It just takes a long term strategic plan and the will to do it.....
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Mar 9, 2020 15:45:26 GMT
There are stark differences though most have fewer than 100 children and although funded by the government there are independent/ private schools. They do nothing that can't be replicated in large parts. It just takes a long term strategic plan and the will to do it..... Seems unlikely given our geographical make up, they have small rural schools and no set curriculum as such. I'm not sure how many kids of school age they have but I'll wager we have many more and in more concentrated areas. The cost I imagine would be prohibitive.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:46:28 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. But that’s just the way it is. Not just here, but all the world over. The same kids are likely to have better health too. And are likely to have better access to certain sports facilities, although the top footballers, boxers, snooker players etc will still originate from few drawers down. I could go on and on about the inequalities of life and agree that it is “unfair”. But life is unfair. Period. Nobody stops kids making the most of the lot they have drawn though (usually) so some kids make it to become whatever they want to be, whether that is wealthy, educated, famous, well travelled, or whatever is your bag. It CAN be done. And, you might want to reflect on the fact that a "well funded education system" requires rich, successful individuals to pay for it. It may be unfair, but some people have to succeed just as some have to "fail". We cannot all be even or equal. We can never have a perfect society so why bother trying to make it better at all? is that the gist of that? Those kids are indeed likely to have access to the best things, but I'm not sure what the justification is for them having access to the best education because they're lucky. It keeps wealth where it is and quells aspiration for those not at private school, because they are at such a huge disadvantage to those at big private ed. How do you compare, for example a student at Blurton high getting a 7 in GCSEs with a student at Winchester getting a 7? because at the minute the Winchester one is more likely to be favoured by employers/universities as they likely have done more extra-curricular work, because Blurton high just can't afford to offer it. The poor student will have had to work twice as hard in a class size double that of Winchester, and in facilities far less helpful, likely with at least a few teachers who aren't subject specialists to get their grade, yet they'll likely be worse off. My principles tell me I don't think they should exist.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:48:39 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. But that’s just the way it is. Not just here, but all the world over. The same kids are likely to have better health too. And are likely to have better access to certain sports facilities, although the top footballers, boxers, snooker players etc will still originate from few drawers down. I could go on and on about the inequalities of life and agree that it is “unfair”. But life is unfair. Period. Nobody stops kids making the most of the lot they have drawn though (usually) so some kids make it to become whatever they want to be, whether that is wealthy, educated, famous, well travelled, or whatever is your bag. It CAN be done. And, you might want to reflect on the fact that a "well funded education system" requires rich, successful individuals to pay for it. It may be unfair, but some people have to succeed just as some have to "fail". We cannot all be even or equal. None of that explains why private schools have charitable status, as a bare minimum that should be removed immediately.......
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:48:55 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. I find it a bit strange that someone who comments on the morality of private school education is also someone who earns a living from it. Ever considered going to work in a public school and giving those kids the same level of education as the private ones get. Facilities won't be as defining a factor as the quality of the teachers I expect. Though i guess teachers in private schools get paid more. I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:53:11 GMT
They do nothing that can't be replicated in large parts. It just takes a long term strategic plan and the will to do it..... Seems unlikely given our geographical make up, they have small rural schools and no set curriculum as such. I'm not sure how many kids of school age they have but I'll wager we have many more and in more concentrated areas. The cost I imagine would be prohibitive. The cost like any long term government project needs to be offset against the savings down the line. No one ever seems to really challenge the cost of engaging in conflict the world over, or our nuclear deterrent or the unpaid taxes of huge corporations. Real change is never easy, doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it.......
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Mar 9, 2020 16:13:30 GMT
Seems unlikely given our geographical make up, they have small rural schools and no set curriculum as such. I'm not sure how many kids of school age they have but I'll wager we have many more and in more concentrated areas. The cost I imagine would be prohibitive. The cost like any long term government project needs to be offset against the savings down the line. No one ever seems to really challenge the cost of engaging in conflict the world over, or our nuclear deterrent or the unpaid taxes of huge corporations. Real change is never easy, doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it....... It would take a very brave government to dismantle our current system, by the look of it Finlands system seems desirable but not many seem to have replicated it. I do think Finland's geography dictates their system to a large degree.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Mar 9, 2020 16:21:23 GMT
But that’s just the way it is. Not just here, but all the world over. The same kids are likely to have better health too. And are likely to have better access to certain sports facilities, although the top footballers, boxers, snooker players etc will still originate from few drawers down. I could go on and on about the inequalities of life and agree that it is “unfair”. But life is unfair. Period. Nobody stops kids making the most of the lot they have drawn though (usually) so some kids make it to become whatever they want to be, whether that is wealthy, educated, famous, well travelled, or whatever is your bag. It CAN be done. And, you might want to reflect on the fact that a "well funded education system" requires rich, successful individuals to pay for it. It may be unfair, but some people have to succeed just as some have to "fail". We cannot all be even or equal. None of that explains why private schools have charitable status, as a bare minimum that should be removed immediately....... I 100% agree.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Mar 9, 2020 16:24:48 GMT
Seems unlikely given our geographical make up, they have small rural schools and no set curriculum as such. I'm not sure how many kids of school age they have but I'll wager we have many more and in more concentrated areas. The cost I imagine would be prohibitive. The cost like any long term government project needs to be offset against the savings down the line. No one ever seems to really challenge the cost of engaging in conflict the world over, or our nuclear deterrent or the unpaid taxes of huge corporations. Real change is never easy, doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it....... I agree with this too. We need to do some major rearranging of our priorities in this country. I'm not convinced that the majority are ready for it or up for the argumant though.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Mar 9, 2020 16:28:38 GMT
I find it a bit strange that someone who comments on the morality of private school education is also someone who earns a living from it. Ever considered going to work in a public school and giving those kids the same level of education as the private ones get. Facilities won't be as defining a factor as the quality of the teachers I expect. Though i guess teachers in private schools get paid more. I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4. "I couldn't afford to work at a state school...." You mean you are not prepared to make the sacrifices needed for you to work in a state school. But others should sacrifice their option to help their kids get the best education on offer?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:48:59 GMT
The cost like any long term government project needs to be offset against the savings down the line. No one ever seems to really challenge the cost of engaging in conflict the world over, or our nuclear deterrent or the unpaid taxes of huge corporations. Real change is never easy, doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it....... I agree with this too. We need to do some major rearranging of our priorities in this country. I'm not convinced that the majority are ready for it or up for the argumant though. Absolutely. It's generally easier to retain the status quo whether it's beneficial or not. Which is a shame because some areas of government should be beyond party politics and there should be cross party consensus and a 20-30 year mandate on issues such as climate change, education, major infrastructure projects etc.....
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Mar 9, 2020 16:51:46 GMT
I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4. "I couldn't afford to work at a state school...." You mean you are not prepared to make the sacrifices needed for you to work in a state school. But others should sacrifice their option to help their kids get the best education on offer? I’m guessing that lilfraise is a millennial, with a millennials debt round his neck. Not a Boomer with every advantage known to man.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 17:33:52 GMT
I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4. "I couldn't afford to work at a state school...." You mean you are not prepared to make the sacrifices needed for you to work in a state school. But others should sacrifice their option to help their kids get the best education on offer? I'm not, no. I couldn't afford it with debt round my neck from university and even if I could I would have avoided it like the plague because the working conditions are awful. 'Others' should not be privileged and given unfair advantage simply because they have money. Kids should be on as level a playing field as possible, and that is not the current state of affairs.
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Mar 9, 2020 18:43:55 GMT
I find it a bit strange that someone who comments on the morality of private school education is also someone who earns a living from it. Ever considered going to work in a public school and giving those kids the same level of education as the private ones get. Facilities won't be as defining a factor as the quality of the teachers I expect. Though i guess teachers in private schools get paid more. I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4. So given these facts why do you think it unfair for parents to reach the same conclusions and choose this type of education, as we both know a lot of parents make huge sacrifices to make it happen
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:44:06 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. The one thing that anti-private school people either fail to realise or admit is that many 'bright' kids see their education ruined in state schools thanks to the shite behaviour of kids who couldn't give a flying fuck about education. Modern 'soft-as-shit' discipline has made this even worse. If people have to pay to ensure their kids receive a good education free of the idiots that don't care then so be it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:53:53 GMT
I couldn't afford to work at a state school, nor would I want to in the current climate of state education. I came to private because the school I work at offers creative and evidence based innovative teaching. Facilities are huge, they define what quality teachers can give in lessons. I have worked in 4 schools so far, and not a single one the 3 state schools I worked in had a physics teacher with a degree in any related physical science. Where I work now has 4. So given these facts why do you think it unfair for parents to reach the same conclusions and choose this type of education, as we both know a lot of parents make huge sacrifices to make it happen They do but it isn't a 'choice' for most. Parents should not be forced to make huge sacrifices to get a better education and others should not be able to access it through money.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 19:01:13 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. The one thing that anti-private school people either fail to realise or admit is that many 'bright' kids see their education ruined in state schools thanks to the shite behaviour of kids who couldn't give a flying fuck about education. Modern 'soft-as-shit' discipline has made this even worse. If people have to pay to ensure their kids receive a good education free of the idiots that don't care then so be it. Those people exist in both sides of the system, although yes there tend to be fewer of them in private sector. I can 100% say that a lot of the shite behaviour would be very different if the kids in question were given the opportunities and pastoral care given in private schooling.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 9, 2020 19:06:36 GMT
Fucking hell fire.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2020 19:16:17 GMT
Well that's better than me I'm lost for words.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2020 19:23:13 GMT
The one thing that anti-private school people either fail to realise or admit is that many 'bright' kids see their education ruined in state schools thanks to the shite behaviour of kids who couldn't give a flying fuck about education. Modern 'soft-as-shit' discipline has made this even worse. If people have to pay to ensure their kids receive a good education free of the idiots that don't care then so be it. Those people exist in both sides of the system, although yes there tend to be fewer of them in private sector. I can 100% say that a lot of the shite behaviour would be very different if the kids in question were given the opportunities and pastoral care given in private schooling. The scum get kicked out of private sector schools don't they even though they barely exist in truth. Giving pastoral care in state schools to thugs of the future, who don't aspire to anything other than making life miserable for the kids around them for whom they're denying an education through their behaviour, is implausible.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 19:28:13 GMT
"I couldn't afford to work at a state school...." You mean you are not prepared to make the sacrifices needed for you to work in a state school. But others should sacrifice their option to help their kids get the best education on offer? I'm not, no. I couldn't afford it with debt round my neck from university and even if I could I would have avoided it like the plague because the working conditions are awful. 'Others' should not be privileged and given unfair advantage simply because they have money. Kids should be on as level a playing field as possible, and that is not the current state of affairs. Must be nice to have all these moral principles without the conviction to live by them. I don't think you're in a position to comment on private education when you're directly benefitting from it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 19:32:05 GMT
Those people exist in both sides of the system, although yes there tend to be fewer of them in private sector. I can 100% say that a lot of the shite behaviour would be very different if the kids in question were given the opportunities and pastoral care given in private schooling. The scum get kicked out of private sector schools don't they even though they barely exist in truth. Giving pastoral care in state schools to thugs of the future, who don't aspire to anything other than making life miserable for the kids around them for whom they're denying an education through their behaviour, is implausible. Kids aren't born wanting to do that. Giving kids an environment where they can be helped if they start to show poor behaviour makes a difference. Unless you just think rich kids are better than poor ones naturally?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 19:33:39 GMT
I'm not, no. I couldn't afford it with debt round my neck from university and even if I could I would have avoided it like the plague because the working conditions are awful. 'Others' should not be privileged and given unfair advantage simply because they have money. Kids should be on as level a playing field as possible, and that is not the current state of affairs. Must be nice to have all these moral principles without the conviction to live by them. I don't think you're in a position to comment on private education when you're directly benefitting from it. Why not? Do all humans forfeit their right to comment on sweatshop labour because they have an iPhone or some trainers? Since when does being a part of something in society mean you can't dislike or disagree with it?
|
|
|
Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 19:39:58 GMT
Must be nice to have all these moral principles without the conviction to live by them. I don't think you're in a position to comment on private education when you're directly benefitting from it. Why not? Do all humans forfeit their right to comment on sweatshop labour because they have an iPhone or some trainers? Since when does being a part of something in society mean you can't dislike or disagree with it? Not quite the same is it. Just saying that's it's a bit rich you trying to take the moral high ground on here when you're gaining the most out of the very thing you're protesting against.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2020 19:49:53 GMT
The scum get kicked out of private sector schools don't they even though they barely exist in truth. Giving pastoral care in state schools to thugs of the future, who don't aspire to anything other than making life miserable for the kids around them for whom they're denying an education through their behaviour, is implausible. Kids aren't born wanting to do that. Giving kids an environment where they can be helped if they start to show poor behaviour makes a difference. Unless you just think rich kids are better than poor ones naturally? It's primarily down to parental influence/ lifestyle sometimes before birth and beyond that lack of discipline in schools. There are some children who shouldn't be anywhere near a mainstream school. I went to a grammar school attended by a fair amount of children from poorer families. I suspect that the few who misbehaved had shite parents although you can't always blame parents for their kids behaviour. Schools are far worse now because of lack of discipline which impacts on teachers ability to get on with their jobs and poor unfortunate children being deprived of an education. There should be far more exclusions.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 20:00:22 GMT
Kids aren't born wanting to do that. Giving kids an environment where they can be helped if they start to show poor behaviour makes a difference. Unless you just think rich kids are better than poor ones naturally? It's primarily down to parental influence/ lifestyle sometimes before birth and beyond that lack of discipline in schools. There are some children who shouldn't be anywhere near a mainstream school. I went to a grammar school attended by a fair amount of children from poorer families. I suspect that the few who misbehaved had shite parents although you can't always blame parents for their kids behaviour. Schools are far worse now because of lack of discipline which impacts on teachers ability to get on with their jobs and poor unfortunate children being deprived of an education. There should be far more exclusions. I dunno, I've had some strict as hell parents whose kids are terrors, and vice versa. I think the attention given to kids in class can make a huge difference, class sizes are a big big issue currently.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 20:01:24 GMT
Why not? Do all humans forfeit their right to comment on sweatshop labour because they have an iPhone or some trainers? Since when does being a part of something in society mean you can't dislike or disagree with it? Not quite the same is it. Just saying that's it's a bit rich you trying to take the moral high ground on here when you're gaining the most out of the very thing you're protesting against. I'm not trying to take moral high ground at all, I just don't agree with them personally. I understand those who do.
|
|