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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 9, 2020 21:00:09 GMT
Not quite the same is it. Just saying that's it's a bit rich you trying to take the moral high ground on here when you're gaining the most out of the very thing you're protesting against. I'm not trying to take moral high ground at all Well that's bollocks. You do it in virtually every post that you make on any thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 21:11:49 GMT
I'm not trying to take moral high ground at all Well that's bollocks. You do it in virtually every post that you make on any thread. I'm genuinely not trying to do so, so apologies if I come across that way.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2020 21:26:45 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. What sanctimonious driven. Leveling down is never a solution to any problem. If there is a problem with state education, it should corrected by raising standards, not dismantling quality organizations. The reality is state schools are like nationalised industries, in general they don't work. Close private schools and all that will happen is the best teachers will move abroad and rich people will send their children to schools abroad. Any improvement in state schools would be spread so thin there would be hardly any difference in standard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 21:48:40 GMT
Private schools are a problem precisely because they rely almost solely on students who's parents are buying their way to a better education for their kids. It perpetuates wealth staying in families and puts poorer kids at a disadvantage to rich ones in education. As a private school teacher, I very consistently see fantastic students work really hard to get great grades, but I cannot escape the thought that if all, or even a bigger minority of students had the opportunities the rich kids here get, with a properly funded education system, we would be in a much better position as a species. In my opinion it is principally unfair for students to get better education depending on which family they happened to be born into. What sanctimonious driven. Leveling down is never a solution to any problem. If there is a problem with state education, it should corrected by raising standards, not dismantling quality organizations. The reality is state schools are like nationalised industries, in general they don't work. Close private schools and all that will happen is the best teachers will move abroad and rich people will send their children to schools abroad. Any improvement in state schools would be spread so thin there would be hardly any difference in standard. It absolutely should be done by raising standards in state education, but the principle still stands that I don't think you should give educational priority to richer people. You could get teachers to stay in state education by treating them properly and not using education as a tool for easy cuts and easy politics. Even ones currently in private school. I'm not advocating for the immediate destruction of all private schools, but I do hope that we can properly invest in education and integrate private schools into the state sector one day.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 10, 2020 9:23:52 GMT
What sanctimonious driven. Leveling down is never a solution to any problem. If there is a problem with state education, it should corrected by raising standards, not dismantling quality organizations. The reality is state schools are like nationalised industries, in general they don't work. Close private schools and all that will happen is the best teachers will move abroad and rich people will send their children to schools abroad. Any improvement in state schools would be spread so thin there would be hardly any difference in standard. It absolutely should be done by raising standards in state education, but the principle still stands that I don't think you should give educational priority to richer people. You could get teachers to stay in state education by treating them properly and not using education as a tool for easy cuts and easy politics. Even ones currently in private school. I'm not advocating for the immediate destruction of all private schools, but I do hope that we can properly invest in education and integrate private schools into the state sector one day. I'm not sure what you mean. Firstly the UK is not bad at the amount of money spent on education. Obviously it would be nice to spend more, but we do spend more than a lot of other OECD countries: www.google.co.uk/search?q=UK+spending+on+education&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a6z3w29I8UkDbM%253A%252CpnseRlKJ1pQ9IM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTcFnnq8TC87JqPotC8RXfH1kCaxQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDyJGix4_oAhU0rHEKHb04D1QQ9QEwAHoECAoQAw#imgrc=a6z3w29I8UkDbM:Maybe you have more recent information. One reason we spend less than some other countries is our high expenditure on defence. Which other countries don't. Maybe we should get rid of the armed forces and spend the money on education? I have spent my life in industry and agree with you that the product coming out of our schools these days is pretty poor. You only have to see young people on a TV quiz to see how ignorant they are these days. The stock answer to any history question, or older popular culture question, is "That's before my time". You're not a history teacher are you? I come from a family full of teachers. They always seem to be on holiday! I often had to go into work during my holidays, do week-end duty, go in and see my employees on Christmas Day, arrange time off many weeks in advance, and work typically 10 hours a day, getting in early and leaving late. My one sympathy with teachers is their inability to discipline students these days; that must be hell. We had the cane, the pump, stand outside the room, detention, lines, litter picking ("scavaging") and order was maintained by the prefects who you knew you had to keep the right side of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 9:34:07 GMT
It absolutely should be done by raising standards in state education, but the principle still stands that I don't think you should give educational priority to richer people. You could get teachers to stay in state education by treating them properly and not using education as a tool for easy cuts and easy politics. Even ones currently in private school. I'm not advocating for the immediate destruction of all private schools, but I do hope that we can properly invest in education and integrate private schools into the state sector one day. I'm not sure what you mean. Firstly the UK is not bad at the amount of money spent on education. Obviously it would be nice to spend more, but we do spend more than a lot of other OECD countries: www.google.co.uk/search?q=UK+spending+on+education&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a6z3w29I8UkDbM%253A%252CpnseRlKJ1pQ9IM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTcFnnq8TC87JqPotC8RXfH1kCaxQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDyJGix4_oAhU0rHEKHb04D1QQ9QEwAHoECAoQAw#imgrc=a6z3w29I8UkDbM:Maybe you have more recent information. One reason we spend less than some other countries is our high expenditure on defence. Which other countries don't. Maybe we should get rid of the armed forces and spend the money on education? I have spent my life in industry and agree with you that the product coming out of our schools these days is pretty poor. You only have to see young people on a TV quiz to see how ignorant they are these days. The stock answer to any history question, or older popular culture question, is "That's before my time". You're not a history teacher are you? I come from a family full of teachers. They always seem to be on holiday! I often had to go into work during my holidays, do week-end duty, go in and see my employees on Christmas Day, arrange time off many weeks in advance, and work typically 10 hours a day, getting in early and leaving late. My one sympathy with teachers is their inability to discipline students these days; that must be hell. We had the cane, the pump, stand outside the room, detention, lines, litter picking ("scavaging") and order was maintained by the prefects who you knew you had to keep the right side of. Or maybe just stop illegally occupying other countries and trying to police the rest of the world by getting involved in conflicts that don't concern us? That would free off several billion.......
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 10, 2020 9:41:36 GMT
It absolutely should be done by raising standards in state education, but the principle still stands that I don't think you should give educational priority to richer people. You could get teachers to stay in state education by treating them properly and not using education as a tool for easy cuts and easy politics. Even ones currently in private school. I'm not advocating for the immediate destruction of all private schools, but I do hope that we can properly invest in education and integrate private schools into the state sector one day. I'm not sure what you mean. Firstly the UK is not bad at the amount of money spent on education. Obviously it would be nice to spend more, but we do spend more than a lot of other OECD countries: www.google.co.uk/search?q=UK+spending+on+education&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a6z3w29I8UkDbM%253A%252CpnseRlKJ1pQ9IM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTcFnnq8TC87JqPotC8RXfH1kCaxQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDyJGix4_oAhU0rHEKHb04D1QQ9QEwAHoECAoQAw#imgrc=a6z3w29I8UkDbM:Maybe you have more recent information. One reason we spend less than some other countries is our high expenditure on defence. Which other countries don't. Maybe we should get rid of the armed forces and spend the money on education? I have spent my life in industry and agree with you that the product coming out of our schools these days is pretty poor. You only have to see young people on a TV quiz to see how ignorant they are these days. The stock answer to any history question, or older popular culture question, is "That's before my time". You're not a history teacher are you? I come from a family full of teachers. They always seem to be on holiday! I often had to go into work during my holidays, do week-end duty, go in and see my employees on Christmas Day, arrange time off many weeks in advance, and work typically 10 hours a day, getting in early and leaving late. My one sympathy with teachers is their inability to discipline students these days; that must be hell. We had the cane, the pump, stand outside the room, detention, lines, litter picking ("scavaging") and order was maintained by the prefects who you knew you had to keep the right side of. Arms are a major industry in Blighty. Don’t knock it, war means£££ Anyroad, it’s not the MOD that takes up most tax, it’s the DWP & the vast majority of that Bill is for Pensions. What’s needed is euthanasia! “Where’s Euthanasia?” I hear you say... How old are you exactly MrCoke!?!
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 10, 2020 10:20:52 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean. Firstly the UK is not bad at the amount of money spent on education. Obviously it would be nice to spend more, but we do spend more than a lot of other OECD countries: www.google.co.uk/search?q=UK+spending+on+education&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a6z3w29I8UkDbM%253A%252CpnseRlKJ1pQ9IM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTcFnnq8TC87JqPotC8RXfH1kCaxQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDyJGix4_oAhU0rHEKHb04D1QQ9QEwAHoECAoQAw#imgrc=a6z3w29I8UkDbM:Maybe you have more recent information. One reason we spend less than some other countries is our high expenditure on defence. Which other countries don't. Maybe we should get rid of the armed forces and spend the money on education? I have spent my life in industry and agree with you that the product coming out of our schools these days is pretty poor. You only have to see young people on a TV quiz to see how ignorant they are these days. The stock answer to any history question, or older popular culture question, is "That's before my time". You're not a history teacher are you? I come from a family full of teachers. They always seem to be on holiday! I often had to go into work during my holidays, do week-end duty, go in and see my employees on Christmas Day, arrange time off many weeks in advance, and work typically 10 hours a day, getting in early and leaving late. My one sympathy with teachers is their inability to discipline students these days; that must be hell. We had the cane, the pump, stand outside the room, detention, lines, litter picking ("scavaging") and order was maintained by the prefects who you knew you had to keep the right side of. Arms are a major industry in Blighty. Don’t knock it, war means£££ Anyroad, it’s not the MOD that takes up most tax, it’s the DWP & the vast majority of that Bill is for Pensions. What’s needed is euthanasia! “Where’s Euthanasia?” I hear you say... How old are you exactly MrCoke!?! Just winding up. Don't knock the old, there is more of us than any other group, which is why politicians and BBC is so out of touch with the society. I'm as old as my tongue and a little older than my teeth.
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Post by cerebralstokie on Mar 10, 2020 11:11:01 GMT
It is with some trepidation that I enter this debate, but I have experience which, I think deserves an airing. When I first graduated, I was appointed to teach at a Direct Grant Grammar School which was also a Charity (educating orphans at no expense). It was not so much the Eton of the North but the "Moth eaten of the North" in terms of infrastructure and facilities, but the education provided was first class including boys and girls who passed the Entrance examination for fees to be paid by the Local Authority (not means tested). Many became useful members of society (doctors, lawyers, media figures and successful in business). The system was abolished by the Labour Government in the late 1970's and the school chose to become Independent. It continues to flourish but no longer easily accessible to poor but able students -more socially exclusive which I regard as highly regrettable. The Charitable status does continue and bursaries and scholarships are available but by no means enough to enable a wider intake in terms of students as the school would wish. During recent years, there has been grade inflation at all levels (percentage of A and A* grades increasing incrementally year on year largely for political reasons. Vocational education has been neglected at the expense of making University Education more widely available but at the expense of a drop in standards (courses which make their graduates not easily employable and some graduates who think "I've got a First in xxxx and so I'm entitled to a well paid job".) I don't think abolishing private schools is the answer - though I have sympathy with the sentiments behind the idea. We live in a competitive world including societies where there is a very strong work ethic (sometimes at the expense of providing a more rounded education). We need to widen drastically access to the very best schools. I take on board all the arguments against selection and I think we do need to pump a lot more into state schools (paid for by higher taxes if necessary) but there are risks to abolishing private schools - as has been said by another contributor - the super rich will just decamp to Switzerland or the like for their priviliged education.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 10, 2020 12:10:29 GMT
It is with some trepidation that I enter this debate, but I have experience which, I think deserves an airing. When I first graduated, I was appointed to teach at a Direct Grant Grammar School which was also a Charity (educating orphans at no expense). It was not so much the Eton of the North but the "Moth eaten of the North" in terms of infrastructure and facilities, but the education provided was first class including boys and girls who passed the Entrance examination for fees to be paid by the Local Authority (not means tested). Many became useful members of society (doctors, lawyers, media figures and successful in business). The system was abolished by the Labour Government in the late 1970's and the school chose to become Independent. It continues to flourish but no longer easily accessible to poor but able students -more socially exclusive which I regard as highly regrettable. The Charitable status does continue and bursaries and scholarships are available but by no means enough to enable a wider intake in terms of students as the school would wish. During recent years, there has been grade inflation at all levels (percentage of A and A* grades increasing incrementally year on year largely for political reasons. Vocational education has been neglected at the expense of making University Education more widely available but at the expense of a drop in standards (courses which make their graduates not easily employable and some graduates who think "I've got a First in xxxx and so I'm entitled to a well paid job".) I don't think abolishing private schools is the answer - though I have sympathy with the sentiments behind the idea. We live in a competitive world including societies where there is a very strong work ethic (sometimes at the expense of providing a more rounded education). We need to widen drastically access to the very best schools. I take on board all the arguments against selection and I think we do need to pump a lot more into state schools (paid for by higher taxes if necessary) but there are risks to abolishing private schools - as has been said by another contributor - the super rich will just decamp to Switzerland or the like for their priviliged education. As usual meddling by a Labour government made thinks worse, not better. Blair meddled with doctors' pay and now doctors only work 3 or 4 days a week (some just 2) and we have a shortage. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1516095/Blair-defends-rise-that-put-GPs-on-250000-a-year.htmlThen Brown destroyed the final salary pay pension schemes by raiding pension funds taxing reinvested dividends. Now local government have massive black holes in their pension schemes tax payers money is poured into instead of services. If Corbyn had got in, he would have totally destroyed pensions and saving schemes. www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/guidance/insolvency-in-the-education-sector-and-the-local-government-pension-schemeThat is why not enough money is spent on education, it is spent on pension schemes Brown destroyed.
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