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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:12:44 GMT
So do you prefer soft in or hard in ? ( bearing in mind that you are a Remainer... Leavers have s much clearer view)... Can't you remember the promises ( warnings) of Cameron pre referendum outlining what leaving mesnt? Did you get a letter that he sent? I take it that you are in support of Ever closer union towards economic and monetary union because that's what the tfeu says that the EU is about. Are you in favour of the Euro.... will we join? I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:18:40 GMT
I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that What are the advantages and disadvantages of adopting the euro? You seem to know all this so rather than belittling people and asking questions you apparently know all about, why don't you provide a factual and impartial explanation? While you're at it, can you also give an explanation as to why every other supposed negative you keep listing is actually a negative, because all I'm seeing from your posts are sound bites from the leave campaign. Proper reasons as well with impacts on real people and real life. Cheers. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 21:30:55 GMT
I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that Can you please highlight to me which country in the single market but not an EU member has been forced to take the Euro as their currency? Taking the Euro would impact our ability to control inflation and as you have pressed me on my opinion of currency I would lean towards keeping the pound but once I have read more about it I may change my mind on it. Farage Bingo - United states of Europe are we going for the European Army also? Verhofstadt represents, in my opinion the mirror image to Nigel Farage so his opinion I take with as much salt as NF's. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:40:26 GMT
The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that Can you please highlight to me which country in the single market but not an EU member has been forced to take the Euro as their currency? Taking the Euro would impact our ability to control inflation and as you have pressed me on my opinion of currency I would lean towards keeping the pound but once I have read more about it I may change my mind on it. Farage Bingo - United states of Europe are we going for the European Army also? Verhofstadt represents, in my opinion the mirror image to Nigel Farage so his opinion I take with as much salt as NF's. Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:42:51 GMT
Can you please highlight to me which country in the single market but not an EU member has been forced to take the Euro as their currency? Taking the Euro would impact our ability to control inflation and as you have pressed me on my opinion of currency I would lean towards keeping the pound but once I have read more about it I may change my mind on it. Farage Bingo - United states of Europe are we going for the European Army also? Verhofstadt represents, in my opinion the mirror image to Nigel Farage so his opinion I take with as much salt as NF's. Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... You're the one evading questions. You're good at highlighting arguments but have nothing to back them up with. He answered your euro question, now how about you answer any of his. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:44:44 GMT
The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that What are the advantages and disadvantages of adopting the euro? You seem to know all this so rather than belittling people and asking questions you apparently know all about, why don't you provide a factual and impartial explanation? While you're at it, can you also give an explanation as to why every other supposed negative you keep listing is actually a negative, because all I'm seeing from your posts are sound bites from the leave campaign. Proper reasons as well with impacts on real people and real life. Cheers. I don't fully know what you are talking about Foster as usual... anyway the concept of a single currency isn't that difficult to understand. I've been asked many of a question which I've tried to answer... in fact this little interlude started by my being asked questions...I just thought Id try to get clarity from dome Remainers who seem to understand the EU project. I'd like to say that I'm sorry if you don't approve but I'm not really. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:47:06 GMT
Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... You're the one evading questions. You're good at highlighting arguments but have nothing to back them up with. He answered your euro question, now how about you answer any of his. I've answered them. I'm not particularly interested if you don't get the answer. |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:48:18 GMT
The Euro is an extremely important aspect of the EU membership... sacrosanct to the project.... surely you have an opinion in principle on the idea of the EU giving up the pound and having a single currency controlled from Brussels via the Central Bank...you know Legarde etc...." Economic and monetary Union"... that's what the EU is all about.....so you don't know if we will join nor if it is the best thing to do....but you are in favour of being half in the project.... am I understanding you properly. What about Ever closer Union? ....EVER....get it .... towards a United States of Europe...ask Verhofstadt. Oh and not in means exactly what it says ...not part of the project.... Leavers understand that Can you please highlight to me which country in the single market but not an EU member has been forced to take the Euro as their currency? Taking the Euro would impact our ability to control inflation and as you have pressed me on my opinion of currency I would lean towards keeping the pound but once I have read more about it I may change my mind on it. Farage Bingo - United states of Europe are we going for the European Army also? Verhofstadt represents, in my opinion the mirror image to Nigel Farage so his opinion I take with as much salt as NF's. Excellent post and all entirely correct. I fear your debate is a little one sided though as BJR doesn't seem to have any clue of what the consequences of anything are or answer any questions himself. |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:51:02 GMT
What are the advantages and disadvantages of adopting the euro? You seem to know all this so rather than belittling people and asking questions you apparently know all about, why don't you provide a factual and impartial explanation? While you're at it, can you also give an explanation as to why every other supposed negative you keep listing is actually a negative, because all I'm seeing from your posts are sound bites from the leave campaign. Proper reasons as well with impacts on real people and real life. Cheers. I don't fully know what you are talking about Foster as usual... anyway the concept of a single currency isn't that difficult to understand. I've been asked many of a question which I've tried to answer... in fact this little interlude started by my being asked questions...I just thought Id try to get clarity from dome Remainers who seem to understand the EU project. I'd like to say that I'm sorry if you don't approve but I'm not really. Haha, you've lost this debate big time. Keep copy pasting if it makes you feel better though. I'll keep a look out for when you post something with a proper explanation behind it though. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 21:51:26 GMT
Can you please highlight to me which country in the single market but not an EU member has been forced to take the Euro as their currency? Taking the Euro would impact our ability to control inflation and as you have pressed me on my opinion of currency I would lean towards keeping the pound but once I have read more about it I may change my mind on it. Farage Bingo - United states of Europe are we going for the European Army also? Verhofstadt represents, in my opinion the mirror image to Nigel Farage so his opinion I take with as much salt as NF's. Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... Stealth, secrecy and collusion, we're getting deep now but at least we have moved on from fish. Yes I favour a soft Brexit, based on my 20 minutes of research I would rather keep the pound but I would be happy to listen to a sensible and factual discussion on the pro's and con's and how it would impact mine and others lives if we were to take it and that may change my mind? Can I, me personally, 1 man from Stoke-on-Trent guarantee we would not join it, well, no? But seeing as there is no evidence that has been provided of any nation being in the SM and having to take (against its will) the currency I cant say I would lose to much sleep over it. Which question have I evaded? I'm not really sure on your point of Verhofstadt, yes he seems an EU loon but is ever closer worse than ever further apart? We're about to find out I suppose. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 21:52:20 GMT
Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... You're the one evading questions. You're good at highlighting arguments but have nothing to back them up with. He answered your euro question, now how about you answer any of his. To be fair it is more interesting in asking them... But, but, but what about?! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:53:13 GMT
I don't fully know what you are talking about Foster as usual... anyway the concept of a single currency isn't that difficult to understand. I've been asked many of a question which I've tried to answer... in fact this little interlude started by my being asked questions...I just thought Id try to get clarity from dome Remainers who seem to understand the EU project. I'd like to say that I'm sorry if you don't approve but I'm not really. Haha, you've lost this debate big time. Keep copy pasting if it makes you feel better though. I'll keep a look out for when you post something with a proper explanation behind it though. I apologise for getting under your skin again. I didn't think that people needed permission from you to post..... unfortunately when you lose the argument you seem to resort to trying to get the man again..... you seen to have form for it. |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:55:42 GMT
You're the one evading questions. You're good at highlighting arguments but have nothing to back them up with. He answered your euro question, now how about you answer any of his. . I've answered them. I'm not particularly interested if you don't get the answer. Awwwwww. Cute. Let us know when you post them as I haven't seen them on here. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:58:01 GMT
Evading the question I see...... it's not about force , it's ever closer union through stealth, secrecy and collusion....its been happening since we joined and Lisbon states that it will continue.... Political and Economic union ... you must have your head in the sand on this one...so you favour a "soft" in....not the Euro...can you guarantee we won't join? Yes a army has been mentioned, I wasn't going to mention it. You are wrong about Verhofstadt, an important driver for the EU a great believer in the United States of Europe.... Why is it even mentioned in the EU Parliament?..... Stealth, secrecy and collusion, we're getting deep now but at least we have moved on from fish. Yes I favour a soft Brexit, based on my 20 minutes of research I would rather keep the pound but I would be happy to listen to a sensible and factual discussion on the pro's and con's and how it would impact mine and others lives if we were to take it and that may change my mind? Can I, me personally, 1 man from Stoke-on-Trent guarantee we would not join it, well, no? But seeing as there is no evidence that has been provided of any nation being in the SM and having to take (against its will) the currency I cant say I would lose to much sleep over it. Which question have I evaded? I'm not really sure on your point of Verhofstadt, yes he seems an EU loon but is ever closer worse than ever further apart? We're about to find out I suppose. It's not deep at all , simply the EU's way of moving towards its goal and gaining more control. It may take another five years to find out....the point now is.. irrespective of what anyone thinks post referendum, we've had the referendum.... will we democratically implement the result.... perhaps it depends upon whether Remainers are democratic |
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Post by Davef on Nov 20, 2019 21:58:51 GMT
The rabbit hole reference is just your opinion. As a factual development when you say "of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU"... What do you understand outside the EU to be....your use of the phrase 'of course' makes it seems as though its clear and obvious. Well it is clear and obvious, you're either in the EU as a full member such as France or outside of the EU with a membership such as Norway through the EEA. Finally you could be totally out of the EU with no membership such as Bosnia. Norway are not a member of the EU though are they? They are a member of EFTA, the European Free Trade Association and as you say the EEA and as such adopt around a quarter of the EU's rules which cover trade mostly. Of course they have a close relationship with the EU (which we will have to have, regardless of the bleating of the ultra Brexiteers), but they are unequivocally not a member of the European Union. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 21:59:15 GMT
I've answered them. I'm not particularly interested if you don't get the answer. Awwwwww. Cute. Let us know when you post them as I haven't seen them on here. No you probably haven't. I can understand that. |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 21:59:52 GMT
Haha, you've lost this debate big time. Keep copy pasting if it makes you feel better though. I'll keep a look out for when you post something with a proper explanation behind it though. I apologise for getting under your skin again. I didn't think that people needed permission from you to post..... unfortunately when you lose the argument you seem to resort to trying to get the man again..... you seen to have form for it.  I'm not debating here mate. I'm reading your posts in which you keep evading questions. Even now you can't answer any of them. It's comical. Is this how you normally debate?.. You question people into submission. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:02:06 GMT
I apologise for getting under your skin again. I didn't think that people needed permission from you to post..... unfortunately when you lose the argument you seem to resort to trying to get the man again..... you seen to have form for it. I'm not debating here mate. I'm reading your posts in which you keep evading questions. Even now you can't answer any of them. It's comical. Is this how you normally debate?.. You question people into submission. I would not worry about it too much. As you know I'm always reassured when I'm in disagreement with you |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 22:06:38 GMT
Stealth, secrecy and collusion, we're getting deep now but at least we have moved on from fish. Yes I favour a soft Brexit, based on my 20 minutes of research I would rather keep the pound but I would be happy to listen to a sensible and factual discussion on the pro's and con's and how it would impact mine and others lives if we were to take it and that may change my mind? Can I, me personally, 1 man from Stoke-on-Trent guarantee we would not join it, well, no? But seeing as there is no evidence that has been provided of any nation being in the SM and having to take (against its will) the currency I cant say I would lose to much sleep over it. Which question have I evaded? I'm not really sure on your point of Verhofstadt, yes he seems an EU loon but is ever closer worse than ever further apart? We're about to find out I suppose. It's not deep at all , simply the EU's way of moving towards its goal and gaining more control. It may take another five years to find out....the point now is.. irrespective of what anyone thinks post referendum, we've had the referendum.... will we democratically implement the result.... perhaps it depends upon whether Remainers are democratic Yes we have had the referendum at a result of 52%-48%. The result will, in my opinion be implemented, however the "hardness" of the Brexit will be determined by the result of the election but if there is one thing I hope you take away from tonight's discussion is this. Please do not expect left or centre leaning MP's to vote in favour of a hard style Brexit. Voting against the "hardness" is not restricting the will of the people it is simply using their best judgement as elected members for the interests of their constituents. It is less to do with being undemocratic and more to do with doing their jobs. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 22:08:25 GMT
Well it is clear and obvious, you're either in the EU as a full member such as France or outside of the EU with a membership such as Norway through the EEA. Finally you could be totally out of the EU with no membership such as Bosnia. Norway are not a member of the EU though are they? They are a member of EFTA, the European Free Trade Association and as you say the EEA and as such adopt around a quarter of the EU's rules which cover trade mostly. Of course they have a close relationship with the EU (which we will have to have, regardless of the bleating of the ultra Brexiteers), but they are unequivocally not a member of the European Union. No mate, they are not a member of the EU but are part of the EEA (I know what I meant 😅) Ultimately they are neither France or Bosnia. |
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Post by Davef on Nov 20, 2019 22:10:46 GMT
Norway are not a member of the EU though are they? They are a member of EFTA, the European Free Trade Association and as you say the EEA and as such adopt around a quarter of the EU's rules which cover trade mostly. Of course they have a close relationship with the EU (which we will have to have, regardless of the bleating of the ultra Brexiteers), but they are unequivocally not a member of the European Union. No mate, they are not a member of the EU but are part of the EEA (I know what I meant 😅) Ultimately they are neither France or Bosnia. Yes, and as Farage once said "Who wouldn't want to be like Norway?". |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:10:56 GMT
It's not deep at all , simply the EU's way of moving towards its goal and gaining more control. It may take another five years to find out....the point now is.. irrespective of what anyone thinks post referendum, we've had the referendum.... will we democratically implement the result.... perhaps it depends upon whether Remainers are democratic Yes we have had the referendum at a result of 52%-48%. The result will, in my opinion be implemented, however the "hardness" of the Brexit will be determined by the result of the election but if there is one thing I hope you take away from tonight's discussion is this. Please do not expect left or centre leaning MP's to vote in favour of a hard style Brexit. Voting against the "hardness" is not restricting the will of the people it is simply using their best judgement as elected members for the interests of their constituents. It is less to do with being undemocratic and more to do with doing their jobs. No such thing as a hard or soft BREXIT. The referendum was designed to make a decision in or out... not to make a " proportional divide"....all the talk about soft and hard is simply Remainers not accepting the result. If the result had been Remain by a 50 vote majority that would have been the end of the matter |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:12:52 GMT
No mate, they are not a member of the EU but are part of the EEA (I know what I meant 😅) Ultimately they are neither France or Bosnia. Yes, and as Farage once said "Who wouldn't want to be like Norway?". Yes , EEA membership exposed by Andrew Neal in the James Mcgory video as taken out of context ...as a transition only. |
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2019 22:15:55 GMT
I'm not debating here mate. I'm reading your posts in which you keep evading questions. Even now you can't answer any of them. It's comical. Is this how you normally debate?.. You question people into submission. I would not worry about it too much. As you know I'm always reassured when I'm in disagreement with you I find the debate you've been having interesting actually. I would like to hear more about the statements you make because unlike Red you haven't given any proper explanations to any of them. It would be great if you had more in-depth knowledge about taking the Euro or ever closer union, or any other argument you make, but if you don't then that's OK. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:16:27 GMT
I would not worry about it too much. As you know I'm always reassured when I'm in disagreement with you I find the debate you've been having interesting actually. I would like to hear more about the statements you make because unlike Red you haven't given any proper explanations to any of them. It would be great if you had more in-depth knowledge about taking the Euro or ever closer union, or any other argument you make, but if you don't then that's OK. Thank you very much |
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 20, 2019 22:22:01 GMT
So do you prefer soft in or hard in ? ( bearing in mind that you are a Remainer... Leavers have s much clearer view)... Can't you remember the promises ( warnings) of Cameron pre referendum outlining what leaving mesnt? Did you get a letter that he sent? I take it that you are in support of Ever closer union towards economic and monetary union because that's what the tfeu says that the EU is about. Are you in favour of the Euro.... will we join? I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. You were never a leave voter, why the bullshit? |
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Post by Davef on Nov 20, 2019 22:25:49 GMT
Yes, and as Farage once said "Who wouldn't want to be like Norway?". Yes , EEA membership exposed by Andrew Neal in the James Mcgory video as taken out of context ...as a transition only. A transition to what? Not a deal, surely?! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:26:04 GMT
I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. You were never a leave voter, why the bullshit? It's s good angle though Numpty to argue for Remain... predictable but good, well perhaps not..... just part of the " we've changed our mind " movement |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 22:27:42 GMT
Yes we have had the referendum at a result of 52%-48%. The result will, in my opinion be implemented, however the "hardness" of the Brexit will be determined by the result of the election but if there is one thing I hope you take away from tonight's discussion is this. Please do not expect left or centre leaning MP's to vote in favour of a hard style Brexit. Voting against the "hardness" is not restricting the will of the people it is simply using their best judgement as elected members for the interests of their constituents. It is less to do with being undemocratic and more to do with doing their jobs. No such thing as a hard or soft BREXIT. The referendum was designed to make a decision in or out... not to make a " proportional divide"....all the talk about soft and hard is simply Remainers not accepting the result. If the result had been Remain by a 50 vote majority that would have been the end of the matter And this is where we will absolutely have to agree to disagree. I would recommend you look at all the statements issued before the referendum made by Farage, Johnson, Gove etc.. and if you still hold that opinion then there is no give in your opinion. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 22:29:38 GMT
Yes , EEA membership exposed by Andrew Neal in the James Mcgory video as taken out of context ...as a transition only. A transition to what? Not a deal, surely?! Yes, a transition towards an arrangement, a unique one for the UK....but that is SEPARATE from the referendum question and should/ could happen after leaving... they are two separate things... Farage spoke about a holding position....if we don't get a "deal"...so be it....the current " deal" could be interpreted as a treaty that may have political and economic implications |
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