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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 17:12:44 GMT
Nothing wrong with questioning a result, everything wrong with not implementing it. Never been done previously in a modern democracy.... possibly has in a developing country. The country, particularly the underdog, will suffer the most. Ok so we can agree that we can question the result are you happy for MP's to scrutinise the deal that the leader of the conservative party brought back? Or do you feel that once that deal was negotiated and approved by the EU then MP's should have just voted it through regardless? It hasn't been implemented yet because Brexit is like Heinz beans with 57 varieties and I dont really think you can disagree with left leaning MP's not voting through a deal which was done to gain approval by the ERG in the right leaning conservative party, surely. The referendum question was absolutely nothing to do with deals. That's just the agenda now set by Remainers. The referendum was about leaving or remaining in the EU and the criteria of not being in the EU were made clear by both sides before the referendum..No SM, no CU , no European court jurisdiction, control of borders, laws, policies, money etc |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 17:20:49 GMT
Personally I don't think that he is a hypocrite. He is doing the exact job that Brexiteers expect of him in the EU....to be an almost lone voice in questioning the project .... it's all the others who are excited to be on the gravy train and are revelling in their role" long may it continue" they cry... Farage is trying to stop it ...as much as his opponents try to undermine his stance. As I've said it bis difficult to get elected unless you are in the main 3 parties..... elected often through fear. This is not questioning the project Big John. This is just being a big daft tool whilst he continues to feather his nest at the expense of taxpayers  Not sure I agreed with that, but I understand the point they are making..... it's a disgraceful pseudo Parliament....of course the masters do want us to conform nicely, to do homage to the project. Be honest how much real scrutiny by the UK public ( let alone mere knowledge of) does anything that passes through the EU Parliament get? Virtually nil. Our laws/ decision making should be confined to the UK Parliament.....that is what Farage was elected to do. It seems that the " argument" by Remainers ( and I know that doesn't include you) " leave it to them, they know best, they are better than us, certainly don't question what's going on".....yet at the same time demand miniscule scrutiny of Corbyn, Farage, Johnson etc. Head in the sand madness . The UK public will never relate to the EU Parliament in Brussels. I'm pleased that some people are questioning the direction of the EU. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 17:22:26 GMT
The string puller's will get the result they want. I would vote for anyone who spoke for a fair society. Some interesting words by Farage last night, and if true, I can see his point about Europe. Not sure about him though! Still don't know who to vote for. I will insist though. The rich can look after themselves!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 20, 2019 17:57:46 GMT
Personally I don't think that he is a hypocrite. He is doing the exact job that Brexiteers expect of him in the EU....to be an almost lone voice in questioning the project .... it's all the others who are excited to be on the gravy train and are revelling in their role" long may it continue" they cry... Farage is trying to stop it ...as much as his opponents try to undermine his stance. As I've said it bis difficult to get elected unless you are in the main 3 parties..... elected often through fear. This is not questioning the project Big John. This is just being a big daft tool whilst he continues to feather his nest at the expense of taxpayers It was virtue-signalling, to give it its modern name. |
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Post by eyeonebob on Nov 20, 2019 18:11:11 GMT
The NHS is not understaffed. It's the increase of population in this country. Google what the most popular new born babies are called these days. It'll tell you all you need to know fella. And your comments tell me all I need to know about you a far right racist ! What have I said that's racist???? Purely stating observational facts. |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2019 18:30:17 GMT
And your comments tell me all I need to know about you a far right racist ! What have I said that's racist???? Purely stating observational facts. Actually the demand on the NHS is caused by old folk living much longer. Not births. We need loads more new newborns because in years to come they’ll be paying for the services us baby boomers will be needing. So blame the Alfreds, Elsies etc. Or maybe I’m being ageist. |
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Post by eyeonebob on Nov 20, 2019 18:40:26 GMT
What have I said that's racist???? Purely stating observational facts. Actually the demand on the NHS is caused by old folk living much longer. Not births. We need loads more new newborns because in years to come they’ll be paying for the services us baby boomers will be needing. So blame the Alfreds, Elsies etc. Or maybe I’m being ageist. On average there are about 200,000 more births in the UK than there are deaths. |
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Post by Boothen on Nov 20, 2019 18:42:24 GMT
So in 2016 we had a democratic vote whereby the majority of voters voted to leave the EU, and now the Liberal Democrats want to smear shit all over the democratic process and cancel Brexit? How very liberal and democratic of them.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 20, 2019 18:43:26 GMT
There's no doubt he's influenced debate in this country and can be (not always) an effective operator but despite standing in some of the biggest 'leave' seats in the country over the years the public have always given him the bird when it comes to being an MP. had he ran as a conservative he probably would have been elected to parliament, people take the piss but it's not easy as a member of a minor party to break the monopoly of the main parties, not only is the system rigged towards them but also the public play along with it because they assume minor parties don't have a chance so its basically a wasted vote, all things considered he's done pretty damn well despite never being elected to parliament, in fact he might not have been as influential inside the system as he has been outside it. Spot on for a divisive character such as farage you could argue if he had stood and got elected as a conservative his anti eu rhetoric would have just been noise |
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Post by serpico on Nov 20, 2019 18:44:02 GMT
What have I said that's racist???? Purely stating observational facts. Actually the demand on the NHS is caused by old folk living much longer. Not births. We need loads more new newborns because in years to come they’ll be paying for the services us baby boomers will be needing. So blame the Alfreds, Elsies etc. Or maybe I’m being ageist. why does it have to be either/or ? it's a cocktail of things, including an expanding population, that are putting the NHS under strain, add into it the fact the NHS is systemically flawed with it being a government run, rationed, health care system and you have all the ingredients of a major crisis coming soon, but we can't talk about alternative, more sustainable, affordable and efficient systems, its heresy. i don't think you can blame people for living longer, what should they do, top themselves ? |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 20, 2019 18:45:58 GMT
So in 2016 we had a democratic vote whereby the majority of voters voted to leave the EU, and now the Liberal Democrats want to smear shit all over the democratic process and cancel Brexit? How very liberal and democratic of them. Yes however their argument is a liberal government would have a mandate to revoke brexit is sound and saves is renegotiation and a second referendum It’s also a fantasy Swinson is a maniac |
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Post by serpico on Nov 20, 2019 18:47:09 GMT
had he ran as a conservative he probably would have been elected to parliament, people take the piss but it's not easy as a member of a minor party to break the monopoly of the main parties, not only is the system rigged towards them but also the public play along with it because they assume minor parties don't have a chance so its basically a wasted vote, all things considered he's done pretty damn well despite never being elected to parliament, in fact he might not have been as influential inside the system as he has been outside it. Spot on for a divisive character such as farage you could argue if he had stood and got elected as a conservative his anti eu rhetoric would have just been noise he'd have just been a back bencher and a member of the ERG with no clout. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 20, 2019 18:50:36 GMT
So in 2016 we had a democratic vote whereby the majority of voters voted to leave the EU, and now the Liberal Democrats want to smear shit all over the democratic process and cancel Brexit? How very liberal and democratic of them. Yes however their argument is a liberal government would have a mandate to revoke brexit is sound and saves is renegotiation and a second referendum It’s also a fantasy Swinson is a maniac i wonder, do even some remainers recoil with disgust at her saying she'll simply revoke article 50 by email on day 1 if they get elected ? ... especially when she says it with that smug grin on her face. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 19:08:34 GMT
Ok so we can agree that we can question the result are you happy for MP's to scrutinise the deal that the leader of the conservative party brought back? Or do you feel that once that deal was negotiated and approved by the EU then MP's should have just voted it through regardless? It hasn't been implemented yet because Brexit is like Heinz beans with 57 varieties and I dont really think you can disagree with left leaning MP's not voting through a deal which was done to gain approval by the ERG in the right leaning conservative party, surely. The referendum question was absolutely nothing to do with deals. That's just the agenda now set by Remainers. The referendum was about leaving or remaining in the EU and the criteria of not being in the EU were made clear by both sides before the referendum..No SM, no CU , no European court jurisdiction, control of borders, laws, policies, money etc I'm sorry but you cannot possibly believe that. Your own perception of Brexit may have been no CU no SM etc, but that certainly wasnt what was being discussed throughout the run up. Especially when it comes to the SM, how much did we hear about Norway, Switzerland etc... What you have done now is emphasise the point that Brexit is the Heinz beans 57 variety. What it means for you is not what it means for other leavers and this in turn is why you will have been frustrated by Parliament. You may be a fan of the clean break Brexit it sounds as if you are but the lazy arguement of "there was no deal on the ballot paper" has been done to death and if you feel that 17.4m voted on that belief I'm sorry but that is just simply wrong. People may want to rewrite history but we were promised the land of milk and honey with a great deal and nobody was advocating leaving without one. Therefore it had everything to do with deals. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 19:09:38 GMT
Yes however their argument is a liberal government would have a mandate to revoke brexit is sound and saves is renegotiation and a second referendum It’s also a fantasy Swinson is a maniac i wonder, do even some remainers recoil with disgust at her saying she'll simply revoke article 50 by email on day 1 if they get elected ? ... especially when she says it with that smug grin on her face. Yes 👊 She's made herself unelectable. |
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Post by Northy on Nov 20, 2019 19:09:39 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2019 19:25:01 GMT
Actually the demand on the NHS is caused by old folk living much longer. Not births. We need loads more new newborns because in years to come they’ll be paying for the services us baby boomers will be needing. So blame the Alfreds, Elsies etc. Or maybe I’m being ageist. why does it have to be either/or ? it's a cocktail of things, including an expanding population, that are putting the NHS under strain, add into it the fact the NHS is systemically flawed with it being a government run, rationed, health care system and you have all the ingredients of a major crisis coming soon, but we can't talk about alternative, more sustainable, affordable and efficient systems, its heresy. i don't think you can blame people for living longer, what should they do, top themselves ? I don’t think they should top themselves. That would be both silly and cruel. The state should do it for them. |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2019 19:26:59 GMT
The referendum question was absolutely nothing to do with deals. That's just the agenda now set by Remainers. The referendum was about leaving or remaining in the EU and the criteria of not being in the EU were made clear by both sides before the referendum..No SM, no CU , no European court jurisdiction, control of borders, laws, policies, money etc I'm sorry but you cannot possibly believe that. Your own perception of Brexit may have been no CU no SM etc, but that certainly wasnt what was being discussed throughout the run up. Especially when it comes to the SM, how much did we hear about Norway, Switzerland etc... What you have done now is emphasise the point that Brexit is the Heinz beans 57 variety. What it means for you is not what it means for other leavers and this in turn is why you will have been frustrated by Parliament. You may be a fan of the clean break Brexit it sounds as if you are but the lazy arguement of "there was no deal on the ballot paper" has been done to death and if you feel that 17.4m voted on that belief I'm sorry but that is just simply wrong. People may want to rewrite history but we were promised the land of milk and honey with a great deal and nobody was advocating leaving without one. Therefore it had everything to do with deals. You sound like a remainer explaining how you think a leaver was thinking. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 19:35:32 GMT
I'm sorry but you cannot possibly believe that. Your own perception of Brexit may have been no CU no SM etc, but that certainly wasnt what was being discussed throughout the run up. Especially when it comes to the SM, how much did we hear about Norway, Switzerland etc... What you have done now is emphasise the point that Brexit is the Heinz beans 57 variety. What it means for you is not what it means for other leavers and this in turn is why you will have been frustrated by Parliament. You may be a fan of the clean break Brexit it sounds as if you are but the lazy arguement of "there was no deal on the ballot paper" has been done to death and if you feel that 17.4m voted on that belief I'm sorry but that is just simply wrong. People may want to rewrite history but we were promised the land of milk and honey with a great deal and nobody was advocating leaving without one. Therefore it had everything to do with deals. You sound like a remainer explaining how you think a leaver was thinking. It's been quite an ongoing discussion today. Background for me - I voted to leave in 2016 but would be much more likely to vote remain should a second referendum come about. Were you onboard with the leave means leave, no deal Brexit in the run up to the vote to, or were you more like me and believed in the amazing deal we were promised? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 19:35:41 GMT
The referendum question was absolutely nothing to do with deals. That's just the agenda now set by Remainers. The referendum was about leaving or remaining in the EU and the criteria of not being in the EU were made clear by both sides before the referendum..No SM, no CU , no European court jurisdiction, control of borders, laws, policies, money etc I'm sorry but you cannot possibly believe that. Your own perception of Brexit may have been no CU no SM etc, but that certainly wasnt what was being discussed throughout the run up. Especially when it comes to the SM, how much did we hear about Norway, Switzerland etc... What you have done now is emphasise the point that Brexit is the Heinz beans 57 variety. What it means for you is not what it means for other leavers and this in turn is why you will have been frustrated by Parliament. You may be a fan of the clean break Brexit it sounds as if you are but the lazy arguement of "there was no deal on the ballot paper" has been done to death and if you feel that 17.4m voted on that belief I'm sorry but that is just simply wrong. People may want to rewrite history but we were promised the land of milk and honey with a great deal and nobody was advocating leaving without one. Therefore it had everything to do with deals. I do absolutely believe that because it's true. "Deals" only came in the equation post BREXIT introduced by Remainers who didn't expect nor cannot accept the result. As a matter of fact not opinion....do you believe it is possible for a country not to be in the EU? |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2019 19:58:11 GMT
You sound like a remainer explaining how you think a leaver was thinking. It's been quite an ongoing discussion today. Background for me - I voted to leave in 2016 but would be much more likely to vote remain should a second referendum come about. Were you onboard with the leave means leave, no deal Brexit in the run up to the vote to, or were you more like me and believed in the amazing deal we were promised? I voted to remain. My understanding was “Leave meant Leave” as someone once said meaning, among other things, outside the single market. There’s loads of videos, many on this thread, from the time of the referendum with this spelt out including the economic devastation that would, as sure as night follows day, be an inevitable outcome. My thinking is if I had voted Leave in 2016, I’d be even more convinced this is the right route to go. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 20:00:21 GMT
I'm sorry but you cannot possibly believe that. Your own perception of Brexit may have been no CU no SM etc, but that certainly wasnt what was being discussed throughout the run up. Especially when it comes to the SM, how much did we hear about Norway, Switzerland etc... What you have done now is emphasise the point that Brexit is the Heinz beans 57 variety. What it means for you is not what it means for other leavers and this in turn is why you will have been frustrated by Parliament. You may be a fan of the clean break Brexit it sounds as if you are but the lazy arguement of "there was no deal on the ballot paper" has been done to death and if you feel that 17.4m voted on that belief I'm sorry but that is just simply wrong. People may want to rewrite history but we were promised the land of milk and honey with a great deal and nobody was advocating leaving without one. Therefore it had everything to do with deals. I do absolutely believe that because it's true. "Deals" only came in the equation post BREXIT introduced by Remainers who didn't expect nor cannot accept the result. As a matter of fact not opinion....do you believe it is possible for a country not to be in the EU? Well friend I'm afraid this is where our discussion comes to an end. If you believe that deals only came into play post Brexit you are to far down the rabbit hole but fortunately following the election I feel that your wishes will come true so not much longer to wait now. Finally, of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU, but after 3 years and seeing the path we are heading down I feel we would simply be better off staying and looking to implement change from within. Whilst replying for both of us has probably felt like banging heads against the wall I have enjoyed it today 👌 I dont think we're ever going to see eye to eye but at least it has been civilised and we can both look forward to 3 points on Saturday 🙏 |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 20:00:48 GMT
Personally I don't think that he is a hypocrite. He is doing the exact job that Brexiteers expect of him in the EU....to be an almost lone voice in questioning the project .... it's all the others who are excited to be on the gravy train and are revelling in their role" long may it continue" they cry... Farage is trying to stop it ...as much as his opponents try to undermine his stance. As I've said it bis difficult to get elected unless you are in the main 3 parties..... elected often through fear. This is not questioning the project Big John. This is just being a big daft tool whilst he continues to feather his nest at the expense of taxpayers Sheikh I find this more disconcerting, said in the H of L ( Labour should have it in its manifesto to abolish the H of L within the lifetime of a Labour government...no chance really as part of the gravy chain) by the man who wrote Article 50....the implications of the language says it all in our relationship with the EU. Likewise Verhofstadt appearing at the Bollox to Brexit party conference is a disgrace. Somewhat conversely I would not mind a Labour government because their ridiculous policy on BREXIT and their organising another Referendum would , in my opinion, expose the sham of democracy....i would like to see them get their version of the referendum " question" through.... having negotiated a fantastic deal.... I'm afraid Farage's clarity and leadership of the BREXIT party leaves Corbyn's cabinet standing....they just happen to be the ones in one of the poll positions through traditional voting patterns. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 20:04:56 GMT
I do absolutely believe that because it's true. "Deals" only came in the equation post BREXIT introduced by Remainers who didn't expect nor cannot accept the result. As a matter of fact not opinion....do you believe it is possible for a country not to be in the EU? Well friend I'm afraid this is where our discussion comes to an end. If you believe that deals only came into play post Brexit you are to far down the rabbit hole but fortunately following the election I feel that your wishes will come true so not much longer to wait now. Finally, of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU, but after 3 years and seeing the path we are heading down I feel we would simply be better off staying and looking to implement change from within. Whilst replying for both of us has probably felt like banging heads against the wall I have enjoyed it today 👌 I dont think we're ever going to see eye to eye but at least it has been civilised and we can both look forward to 3 points on Saturday 🙏 The rabbit hole reference is just your opinion. As a factual development when you say "of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU"... What do you understand outside the EU to be....your use of the phrase 'of course' makes it seems as though its clear and obvious. |
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Post by chad on Nov 20, 2019 20:10:26 GMT
Did somebody mention Abacus?  Frightening stuff!!...That ‘rather splendid afro’ has got a lot to answer for  She is confident that she will get 70% of her own constituents votes come the election. But prays to god no one else gets more. The idea that this woman could be in charge of the country’s security or the country’s finances or the country’s NHS is just unbelievable. How on earth did the Labour Party come to this |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 20:17:30 GMT
I do absolutely believe that because it's true. "Deals" only came in the equation post BREXIT introduced by Remainers who didn't expect nor cannot accept the result. As a matter of fact not opinion....do you believe it is possible for a country not to be in the EU? Well friend I'm afraid this is where our discussion comes to an end. If you believe that deals only came into play post Brexit you are to far down the rabbit hole but fortunately following the election I feel that your wishes will come true so not much longer to wait now. Finally, of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU, but after 3 years and seeing the path we are heading down I feel we would simply be better off staying and looking to implement change from within. Whilst replying for both of us has probably felt like banging heads against the wall I have enjoyed it today 👌 I dont think we're ever going to see eye to eye but at least it has been civilised and we can both look forward to 3 points on Saturday 🙏 By the way when you favour Remain...do you support Ever Closer Union....hoe about joining the Euro....good Idea? Can you guarantee that we will never join if we Remain. Are all the EU policies on fishing, agriculture, industry the monthly migration to Strasbourg all ok because " it's the EU?" |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 20:18:38 GMT
Well friend I'm afraid this is where our discussion comes to an end. If you believe that deals only came into play post Brexit you are to far down the rabbit hole but fortunately following the election I feel that your wishes will come true so not much longer to wait now. Finally, of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU, but after 3 years and seeing the path we are heading down I feel we would simply be better off staying and looking to implement change from within. Whilst replying for both of us has probably felt like banging heads against the wall I have enjoyed it today 👌 I dont think we're ever going to see eye to eye but at least it has been civilised and we can both look forward to 3 points on Saturday 🙏 The rabbit hole reference is just your opinion. As a factual development when you say "of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU"... What do you understand outside the EU to be....your use of the phrase 'of course' makes it seems as though its clear and obvious. Well it is clear and obvious, you're either in the EU as a full member such as France or outside of the EU with a membership such as Norway through the EEA. Finally you could be totally out of the EU with no membership such as Bosnia. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2019 20:31:10 GMT
The rabbit hole reference is just your opinion. As a factual development when you say "of course I feel it is possible for a country to be outside of the EU"... What do you understand outside the EU to be....your use of the phrase 'of course' makes it seems as though its clear and obvious. Well it is clear and obvious, you're either in the EU as a full member such as France or outside of the EU with a membership such as Norway through the EEA. Finally you could be totally out of the EU with no membership such as Bosnia. So do you prefer soft in or hard in ? ( bearing in mind that you are a Remainer... Leavers have s much clearer view)... Can't you remember the promises ( warnings) of Cameron pre referendum outlining what leaving mesnt? Did you get a letter that he sent? I take it that you are in support of Ever closer union towards economic and monetary union because that's what the tfeu says that the EU is about. Are you in favour of the Euro.... will we join? |
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Post by eyeonebob on Nov 20, 2019 21:03:45 GMT
Fucking hell.
There's some total out of the real world idiots on here.
The worst thing about it is that they don't know themselves they are.
It's comical.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 20, 2019 21:06:05 GMT
Well it is clear and obvious, you're either in the EU as a full member such as France or outside of the EU with a membership such as Norway through the EEA. Finally you could be totally out of the EU with no membership such as Bosnia. So do you prefer soft in or hard in ? ( bearing in mind that you are a Remainer... Leavers have s much clearer view)... Can't you remember the promises ( warnings) of Cameron pre referendum outlining what leaving mesnt? Did you get a letter that he sent? I take it that you are in support of Ever closer union towards economic and monetary union because that's what the tfeu says that the EU is about. Are you in favour of the Euro.... will we join? I'm not sure that leavers do have a clearer view, once we have separated the "gerrit done" brigade there is a split on the spectrum of how "hard" do we come out. However for me, I would say 2016 leave voting me would have very much been in favour of hard brexit but that was then. I'm not sure if I got a letter or not, you may tell me every household got one if so then I will have done but I dont recall. 2019 me, this is where it probably gets more tricky as I feel I have a much clearer understanding of the implication of Brexit. I would want access to the SM as I dont think the CU would give us the ease of access to overseas labour we would need to currently support our industries and health services. No border(s) on the isle of Ireland. So in answer to your question I think I would lean towards very soft if it now has to be done. In favour of the Euro? - No idea, dont know enough about the impacts of accepting a "new" currency to have an opinion on it. |
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