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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 11:29:48 GMT
Wrong how dare you  That of course depends on whether you mean wrong tecnically or morally as one is definitely not wrong the other is upto your own viewpoint. Equally you should note the UK will benefit from similar arrangements for other companies, I for example know of a company that reports and pays taxes on hundreds of millions of sales of goods that ship direct from its parent company in Asia without them ever setting foot in the UK, no tax benefit to them but they are just registered in the UK with no staff or warehouses in europe, so whatever you take from another country they may then take back from the UK. Ok - here’s my take. Why is this wrong? Because wealth is siphoned from one country to the benefit of another. Because it is unfair on local competitors who have to pay tax on the profits they generate. So it is unquestionably morally wrong. But not illegal. IMO, that makes it wrong. Period. Of course, you are quite correct in the double standards being applied. The UK is the biggest beneficiary of this activity. The world’s largest offshore bank being the City of London. My wife's family are from near Totnes and this is one small example of what you are referring to Partick. As multinational companies take over the High street ( and internet) in retail it is increasingly difficult for local people to compete on a level playing field. The tax issue was an important factor in the issue at Totnes....in addition to stifling any local creativity. "When Costa put in their planning application, it was obvious the threat to local business was massive, not just the coffee shops but their suppliers as well. It is the nature of Costa that they offer standardised products produced at centralised factories. This is how they drive down their prices to maximise their profits. Sarah Wollaston was my mother in Law's doctor, as an aside. "We want to keep money circulating locally. We support family businesses that use a local IT company, buy their food locally. Obviously they don't get their coffee locally. They are also a family to their staff. They spend their money locally where they live and they send their children to school. It seems like a good system; that's the beauty of our high street. It's got more independents than chain stores and that's part of its charm to visitors," said Northrop". www.theguardian.com/business/2012/oct/28/totnes-costa-coffee-high-street |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2019 11:37:58 GMT
Ok - here’s my take. Why is this wrong? Because wealth is siphoned from one country to the benefit of another. Because it is unfair on local competitors who have to pay tax on the profits they generate. So it is unquestionably morally wrong. But not illegal. IMO, that makes it wrong. Period. Of course, you are quite correct in the double standards being applied. The UK is the biggest beneficiary of this activity. The world’s largest offshore bank being the City of London. All these companies pay tax on the profits they generate your problem is how they split the profit between their locations ? This will always be a problem as its quite rare now for goods to be made and sold in the same country. There are quite strict rules in place determining how the price is determined between group companies in different countries 5%-7.5% profit is the norm, how do you determine the cost of the CD you buy from amazon uk when it has passed through another amazon entity who because they order in millions or hundreds of thousands get a better price than buying in smaller quantities, they warehouse it, ship it etc etc, how do you want to split the £2 or £3 profit on a CD sale ? Taxation is not meant to be moral its meant to raise money take a ludicrous example, we both open shops you work 6am-10pm every day and make a profit of £20,000 I open for 15 mins a day and spend the rest of my time pissing about on here or in wetherspoons I make a loss of £20,000. The government takes 20% (might be 19% now I forget) of your hard profits and it gives me 20% back of my losses as an IOU back doesn't seem very moral too me ! Like I have said corporation tax is outdated if you want to raise more tax it has to be replaced with a tax on sales, higher rates, vehicle tax, payroll tax or whatever but equally raise it too high and the way the world is becoming more interconnected with more and more free trade agreements means these companies can just do away with their facilities and staff and ship directly... Another example... I work in a shop, same as my competitor across the street. We put in the same hours and generate the same sales and profit. The problem is the Government takes 20% of my profit but none off my competitor because he is working for a multi-national while I own my shop. This is a double whammy because those profits leave this country leaving our Government short of cash and I am less competitive than my competitor meaning I can’t compete with what he pays his staff or how much he charges for his product. It’s a total dog shit situation. Wrong. How to fix it though. Here I agree with you - abolish corporation tax. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 11:40:33 GMT
All these companies pay tax on the profits they generate your problem is how they split the profit between their locations ? This will always be a problem as its quite rare now for goods to be made and sold in the same country. There are quite strict rules in place determining how the price is determined between group companies in different countries 5%-7.5% profit is the norm, how do you determine the cost of the CD you buy from amazon uk when it has passed through another amazon entity who because they order in millions or hundreds of thousands get a better price than buying in smaller quantities, they warehouse it, ship it etc etc, how do you want to split the £2 or £3 profit on a CD sale ? Taxation is not meant to be moral its meant to raise money take a ludicrous example, we both open shops you work 6am-10pm every day and make a profit of £20,000 I open for 15 mins a day and spend the rest of my time pissing about on here or in wetherspoons I make a loss of £20,000. The government takes 20% (might be 19% now I forget) of your hard profits and it gives me 20% back of my losses as an IOU back doesn't seem very moral too me ! Like I have said corporation tax is outdated if you want to raise more tax it has to be replaced with a tax on sales, higher rates, vehicle tax, payroll tax or whatever but equally raise it too high and the way the world is becoming more interconnected with more and more free trade agreements means these companies can just do away with their facilities and staff and ship directly... Another example... I work in a shop, same as my competitor across the street. We put in the same hours and generate the same sales and profit. The problem is the Government takes 20% of my profit but none off my competitor because he is working for a multi-national while I own my shop. This is a double whammy because those profits leave this country leaving our Government short of cash and I am less competitive than my competitor meaning I can’t compete with what he pays his staff or how much he charges for his product. It’s a total dog shit situation. Wrong. How to fix it though. Here I agree with you - abolish corporation tax. That was the exact issue that was argued in the Totnes case |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 17, 2019 11:50:08 GMT
Here we go again.
"What about historical student debt?"
Corbyn - "I'll sort it"
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2019 12:37:35 GMT
All these companies pay tax on the profits they generate your problem is how they split the profit between their locations ? This will always be a problem as its quite rare now for goods to be made and sold in the same country. There are quite strict rules in place determining how the price is determined between group companies in different countries 5%-7.5% profit is the norm, how do you determine the cost of the CD you buy from amazon uk when it has passed through another amazon entity who because they order in millions or hundreds of thousands get a better price than buying in smaller quantities, they warehouse it, ship it etc etc, how do you want to split the £2 or £3 profit on a CD sale ? Taxation is not meant to be moral its meant to raise money take a ludicrous example, we both open shops you work 6am-10pm every day and make a profit of £20,000 I open for 15 mins a day and spend the rest of my time pissing about on here or in wetherspoons I make a loss of £20,000. The government takes 20% (might be 19% now I forget) of your hard profits and it gives me 20% back of my losses as an IOU back doesn't seem very moral too me ! Like I have said corporation tax is outdated if you want to raise more tax it has to be replaced with a tax on sales, higher rates, vehicle tax, payroll tax or whatever but equally raise it too high and the way the world is becoming more interconnected with more and more free trade agreements means these companies can just do away with their facilities and staff and ship directly... Another example... I work in a shop, same as my competitor across the street. We put in the same hours and generate the same sales and profit. The problem is the Government takes 20% of my profit but none off my competitor because he is working for a multi-national while I own my shop. This is a double whammy because those profits leave this country leaving our Government short of cash and I am less competitive than my competitor meaning I can’t compete with what he pays his staff or how much he charges for his product. It’s a total dog shit situation. Wrong. How to fix it though. Here I agree with you - abolish corporation tax. Whilst you might be right on the end position of paying tax, you both pay 20% tax on profit which is then adjusted for taxable profits so the multi national gets a deduction for employee share schemes, you both get capital allowances (% of cost each year) on your buildings the multi national just has aircraft hangers so gets bigger allowances both of these instances do mean the money doesnt leave the country but the multi national doesn't pay tax because these amounts are so huge before we even get into R&D costs for AI technology. However as the multinational like Amazon employs hundreds of thousands you generally have to suck it up companies like facebook, google thats different but then again how to tax them when like last week I produced dutch accounts for a japanese owned company and dealt with the auditors and management without leaving my front room in Croydon. Replacing corporation tax is a start for sure. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 17, 2019 13:00:39 GMT
They are all playing party politics, that is just the way it is. Labour are more focused on their own agenda in my view. The Cons have failed to deliver anything in 10 years of government but the rich still get richer. The Cons are using Corbyn to distract the public from their own failures. They should try starting an argument without mentioning Corbyn in the 1st sentence, i just stop listening as soon as someone goes on the attack rather than tell people what their plan is. Labour are the only party who want to transform the country which is what most people want and why many voted Brexit in the 1st place. Labour as a whole to me are made up of decent people who are balanced and not too far right nor to far left. The Tories are just vile and i don't believe the majority of them give a shit about anyone but themselves. Farage is a Tory and i believe he is no different. I am not a fan of Corbyn but the party as a whole are where i feel i am most aligned. The best way to encourage investment into run down Brexit voting areas like Stoke is through low taxes, a National Invesment Bank and a massive re-educational programme. The Government could even pay people who are willing to be re-trained into areas of skill shortages. Tax thresholds to be raised too. Labours policies will inevitablylead to higher taxes and higher borrowing. 1)Higher borrowing pushes up interest rates which young people with repayment mortgages get hit harder. It also feeds through into higher prices/costs which reduces the real wage. 2)Higher taxes will hit middle income earners hardest. It won't affect the Rich despite what Labour say. Why do you think they employ accountants? 3)Raising the minimum wage does not make the poorest better off. The majority of people on the minimum wage are 'second earners' typically working part-time, with another higher earning partner. It does little to raise people out of poverty. For that to happen there needs to be a complete rethinking of wages, taxation, in work benefits and national insurance. No major Political Party shows any sign of addressing these fundamental issues, without which, income inequality and the distribution of resources will continue on it's current path. The best way to increase investment is to increase the level of education across the country. Schools are under funded and the level of teaching is decreasing. Classrooms sizes are too big and their are not enough support staff. This is why i think free internet will be a massive positive and give schools more tools to work with. Having so much information at your finger tips is so important all parties should be pushing free internet. The higher the level of education the more competitive the whole country becomes. There is no quick fix we need to look long term and free internet is a great start, it's a no brainer. I think most issues today will be helped through education and it is where everyone should focus. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2019 13:06:51 GMT
The highlight of this morning's Political rounds.
Another Tory Car Crash...
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2019 13:09:23 GMT
The highlight of this morning's Political rounds. Another Tory Car Crash... Ahhh the russia report called this a few days ago. Not seen the interview for most people it will be a case of Brandon who whereas Jezza's avoidance again of whether he would vote leave or remain..... |
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Post by mattyd on Nov 17, 2019 13:10:15 GMT
Just as a side note I have volunteered to be a ballot paper counter... Should be fun.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2019 13:53:08 GMT
The highlight of this morning's Political rounds. Another Tory Car Crash... Ahhh the russia report called this a few days ago. Not seen the interview for most people it will be a case of Brandon who whereas Jezza's avoidance again of whether he would vote leave or remain..... The tories are running out of patsies to put up though now arent they. Mogg, Cleverley, Hancock, Kwarteng all on Dominic's naughty step currently. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 17, 2019 15:01:39 GMT
If i was johnson i'd be going full on Trumpian right now, wrap myself in the flag and goad the left into calling me a racist/fascist, turn it into patriots Vs commies. Not saying i especially agree with it, but he could easily demolish Corbyn if he did this. Depends if you are the type of person that falls for all that Trumpian bullshit, i know my mum is. Its just football hooligan level showboating with no substance. Depends who the opposition is, if Boris went full patriot he would elicit the natural self hatred from the left, they'd attack him and turn themselves into the anti British party all whilst Boris poses as the patriot. Lots of people already consider corbyn to be a self hating, anti western commie... again, not saying its right, but it would likely usher in a landslide victory for the tories. I'd be erecting union jacks all over the streets everywhere i went if i was Boris, go full patriotard. |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 17, 2019 15:19:10 GMT
Just as a side note I have volunteered to be a ballot paper counter... Should be fun. been to a count as a candidates counter, they check the counters are counting right and checking that votes are put in right place. tip stay calm and focused and you should do well and don't get flustered if an agent asks you to recount a bundle as they got it to 99 not 100 don't be upset they make mistakes too lol |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 17, 2019 15:34:29 GMT
Lppks like Jennifer Arcuri has dirt on joihnson and is warning him to give her respect or else link "I've been nothing but loyal, faithful, supportive, and a true confidante of yours. "I've kept your secrets, and I've been your friend. |
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Post by theteacher on Nov 17, 2019 16:22:04 GMT
It’s happening this coming Wednesday.....
Evening with the Parliamentary Candidates - Stoke on Trent South.
Wednesday 20th November 2019 at 7.30pm.
Florence Sports and Social Club, Lightwood Road, ST3 4JS
Hosted by the Lightwood Community Group.
(The Lightwood Community Group are a non political organisation and it will remain so).
The event is open to anyone who lives in Stoke-on-Trent South and wishes to attend. The venue can accommodate 300 people (160 seated) and attendance will be on the basis of first-come-first-served.
A donation on the door for attendance for the Dougie Mac will be taken (this is a charity event and all proceeds will go to the Charity plus £500 from the Lightwood Community Group). The venue is being donated free of charge for the evening.
The agenda for the evening will be as follows: -
1) The Lightwood Community Group will open the event by introducing each candidate;
2) Each candidate will be asked to address the audience with detail of their personal background, experience and suitability for their application (get to know them as people) - not their election/political pitch but about them as people;
3) The Lightwood Community Group will ask a series of questions to each of the candidates (to enable the attendance to hear their policies and thoughts for the Nation but more importantly Stoke-on-Trent);
4) Questions will then be taken from the floor (from those who attend);
5) Each candidate will then be allowed an agreed period of time to address the audience with their election/political pitch - what they stand for, what they will offer, their policies and why anyone should vote for them (this is not a binary election and policies need to be heard);
6) The Lightwood Community Group will close the evening.
It must be stressed that the evening will conducted in a respectful manner and anyone who oversteps what is considered to be appropriate and respectful will be asked to a) sit down and be quiet and/or b) leave the meeting. Any abuse will not be tolerated.
The event is anticipated to last more than two-hours.
Radio Stoke, Radio Signal and the Sentinel have all been made aware of this event.
Dave Evans
Chair, Lightwood Community Group.
Please share with other community groups within Stoke-on-Trent South for their awareness. All welcome to this charity event.
The event will also be broadcast live on the Facebook page: Lightwood Community Group.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 17:09:09 GMT
They are all playing party politics, that is just the way it is. Labour are more focused on their own agenda in my view. The Cons have failed to deliver anything in 10 years of government but the rich still get richer. The Cons are using Corbyn to distract the public from their own failures. They should try starting an argument without mentioning Corbyn in the 1st sentence, i just stop listening as soon as someone goes on the attack rather than tell people what their plan is. Labour are the only party who want to transform the country which is what most people want and why many voted Brexit in the 1st place. Labour as a whole to me are made up of decent people who are balanced and not too far right nor to far left. The Tories are just vile and i don't believe the majority of them give a shit about anyone but themselves. Farage is a Tory and i believe he is no different. I am not a fan of Corbyn but the party as a whole are where i feel i am most aligned. I don't think Farage is playing party politics in do much as he would ( have to) support any party that promised to deliver a proper BREXIT. He was not loyal to UKIP when he felt a change was needed and he was forced to form the BREXIT party....the only advantage of keeping the BREXIT party, post BREXIT , would be 1 to ensure that Brexit occurs, if indeed Brexiteers are left with little choice other than the Tories 2 to tackle the 2 party system and the dishonourable state of our democracy...if that is indeed possible given the vested interests involved. One example of playing party politics.... Jeremy is unable to answer the fundamental question of the day.... Farage could answer the same question. If it was not for the internal organisation of the Labour party Corbyn would never have risen to his great heights. / As far as I know, the Brexit Party are the only party to stand down candidates to help another party that it favours. This is at very little disadvantage to themselves, as they were going to win very few of those seats anyway. So instead of letting the people decide, they are making secret backroom deals to alter the outcome of the general election. There's nothing wrong witht that of course - it's part of the political game. But it's also party politics on a grand scale. Farage is doing the best for his party, and in truth quite a good job of it. By withdrawing from many seats now he has given his party an excuse for the poor performance they were heading to. Speaking of the internal organisation of parties, have the Brexit Party now got a democratic system of choosing or removing the leader? I know when they launched they said they were a new party so did not have time to set it up - which is fair enough - just never heard anything else of it. Admittedly I haven't looked into it much. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 17:26:50 GMT
I don't think Farage is playing party politics in do much as he would ( have to) support any party that promised to deliver a proper BREXIT. He was not loyal to UKIP when he felt a change was needed and he was forced to form the BREXIT party....the only advantage of keeping the BREXIT party, post BREXIT , would be 1 to ensure that Brexit occurs, if indeed Brexiteers are left with little choice other than the Tories 2 to tackle the 2 party system and the dishonourable state of our democracy...if that is indeed possible given the vested interests involved. One example of playing party politics.... Jeremy is unable to answer the fundamental question of the day.... Farage could answer the same question. If it was not for the internal organisation of the Labour party Corbyn would never have risen to his great heights. / As far as I know, the Brexit Party are the only party to stand down candidates to help another party that it favours. This is at very little disadvantage to themselves, as they were going to win very few of those seats anyway. So instead of letting the people decide, they are making secret backroom deals to alter the outcome of the general election. There's nothing wrong witht that of course - it's part of the political game. But it's also party politics on a grand scale. Farage is doing the best for his party, and in truth quite a good job of it. By withdrawing from many seats now he has given his party an excuse for the poor performance they were heading to. Speaking of the internal organisation of parties, have the Brexit Party now got a democratic system of choosing or removing the leader? I know when they launched they said they were a new party so did not have time to set it up - which is fair enough - just never heard anything else of it. Admittedly I haven't looked into it much. We are in unique times. The BREXIT party is new, obviously originally on a single issue but now also exposing the paucity and anti democracy of our politicians. It doesn't HAVE to be like other parties....the majority of " members" are happy with the set up purely because Farage is saying clearly what they believe and is an excellent leader. At the times of national crisis it's not unusual to get behind a leader who is doing the right thing... without the need to scrutinise every aspect of the movement, for the want of a better word....the democracy of the party isn't an issue for most at this stage. Obviously much has gone on behind closed doors, some of it accusations that the Tories have tried to buy off BREXIT politicians. But the decision to stand down ( and given the decision I personally believe that they should have stood down in 25 marginals) was to a degree forced upon Farage. It seems that there is ,if not a concensus, a sizable amount of Brexiteers who believe that realistically Boris's election and deal are the best or only root to Brexit.Time Will tell. Farage has reservations about Boris's deal and the Conservatives and perhaps in the fullness of time he may be proved correct.So do I..I hope and he hopes that he is wrong. For what it's worth despite having some very good non party Political candidates I don't think that they will get any seats, perhaps do well in Peterborough, Hartlepool and Hull. It's a shame that the left have missed an opportunity with BREXIT and their leaders have been content to play the cosy game....and fall into the hands of the Tories. I don't think that Farage can be accused of putting party before country by standing down the candidates, rather he has been " persuaded" that this is the pragmatic root to Brexit.... therefore removing his party from the equation..... perhaps the Tories should have stood down in the 200 largely northern seats that they have no chance of winning.....but of course to be a national Party who ate the "natural" government they would never do that |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 17:55:46 GMT
As far as I know, the Brexit Party are the only party to stand down candidates to help another party that it favours. This is at very little disadvantage to themselves, as they were going to win very few of those seats anyway. So instead of letting the people decide, they are making secret backroom deals to alter the outcome of the general election. There's nothing wrong witht that of course - it's part of the political game. But it's also party politics on a grand scale. Farage is doing the best for his party, and in truth quite a good job of it. By withdrawing from many seats now he has given his party an excuse for the poor performance they were heading to. Speaking of the internal organisation of parties, have the Brexit Party now got a democratic system of choosing or removing the leader? I know when they launched they said they were a new party so did not have time to set it up - which is fair enough - just never heard anything else of it. Admittedly I haven't looked into it much. We are in unique times. The BREXIT party is new, obviously originally on a single issue but now also exposing the paucity and anti democracy of our politicians. It doesn't HAVE to be like other parties....the majority of " members" are happy with the set up purely because Farage is saying clearly what they believe and is an excellent leader. At the times of national crisis it's not unusual to get behind a leader who is doing the right thing... without the need to scrutinise every aspect of the movement, for the want of a better word....the democracy of the party isn't an issue for most at this stage. Obviously much has gone on behind closed doors, some of it accusations that the Tories have tried to buy off BREXIT politicians. But the decision to stand down ( and given the decision I personally believe that they should have stood down in 25 marginals) was to a degree forced upon Farage. It seems that there is ,if not a concensus, a sizable amount of Brexiteers who believe that realistically Boris's election and deal are the best or only root to Brexit.Time Will tell. Farage has reservations about Boris's deal and the Conservatives and perhaps in the fullness of time he may be proved correct.So do I..I hope and he hopes that he is wrong. For what it's worth despite having some very good non party Political candidates I don't think that they will get any seats, perhaps do well in Peterborough, Hartlepool and Hull. It's a shame that the left have missed an opportunity with BREXIT and their leaders have been content to play the cosy game....and fall into the hands of the Tories. I don't think that Farage can be accused of putting party before country by standing down the candidates, rather he has been " persuaded" that this is the pragmatic root to Brexit.... therefore removing his party from the equation..... perhaps the Tories should have stood down in the 200 largely northern seats that they have no chance of winning.....but of course to be a national Party who ate the "natural" government they would never do that So in answer to my question, is there a way to remove or appoint a new party leader in the Brexit Party? Or is it the same system as it was when they were first set up - where they is no scrutiny or responsibility of the leader? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 18:00:41 GMT
We are in unique times. The BREXIT party is new, obviously originally on a single issue but now also exposing the paucity and anti democracy of our politicians. It doesn't HAVE to be like other parties....the majority of " members" are happy with the set up purely because Farage is saying clearly what they believe and is an excellent leader. At the times of national crisis it's not unusual to get behind a leader who is doing the right thing... without the need to scrutinise every aspect of the movement, for the want of a better word....the democracy of the party isn't an issue for most at this stage. Obviously much has gone on behind closed doors, some of it accusations that the Tories have tried to buy off BREXIT politicians. But the decision to stand down ( and given the decision I personally believe that they should have stood down in 25 marginals) was to a degree forced upon Farage. It seems that there is ,if not a concensus, a sizable amount of Brexiteers who believe that realistically Boris's election and deal are the best or only root to Brexit.Time Will tell. Farage has reservations about Boris's deal and the Conservatives and perhaps in the fullness of time he may be proved correct.So do I..I hope and he hopes that he is wrong. For what it's worth despite having some very good non party Political candidates I don't think that they will get any seats, perhaps do well in Peterborough, Hartlepool and Hull. It's a shame that the left have missed an opportunity with BREXIT and their leaders have been content to play the cosy game....and fall into the hands of the Tories. I don't think that Farage can be accused of putting party before country by standing down the candidates, rather he has been " persuaded" that this is the pragmatic root to Brexit.... therefore removing his party from the equation..... perhaps the Tories should have stood down in the 200 largely northern seats that they have no chance of winning.....but of course to be a national Party who ate the "natural" government they would never do that So in answer to my question, is there a way to remove or appoint a new party leader in the Brexit Party? Or is it the same system as it was when they were first set up - where they is no scrutiny or responsibility of the leader? I don't think it is a question that anyone in the BREXIT ' party' is bothered about.... I've tried to explain the reasons above. Should people get disillusioned with the leader/ direction I'd think that they'd just fall away. Don't forget it's a new party and part of the philosophy is to be different. I think that in years to come the nation will regret not using Farage's leadership qualities ( admittedly in an age of poor alternatives) and his belief in the UK ...other views are possible. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 17, 2019 18:07:13 GMT
The self confessed Communist, contributing Editor of Maomentum's propaganda dept. Good grief.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 17, 2019 18:08:40 GMT
So in answer to my question, is there a way to remove or appoint a new party leader in the Brexit Party? Or is it the same system as it was when they were first set up - where they is no scrutiny or responsibility of the leader? I don't think it is a question that anyone in the BREXIT ' party' is bothered about.... I've tried to explain the reasons above. Should people get disillusioned with the leader/ direction I'd think that they'd just fall away. Don't forget it's a new party and part of the philosophy is to be different. I think that in years to come the nation will regret not using Farage's leadership qualities ( admittedly in an age of poor alternatives) and his belief in the UK ...other views are possible. I think in years to come the nation will wonder how the people were conned into thinking Farage was anything other than an opportunistic twat, a rancid wrecking ball without an ounce of constructive thought in his bones.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 18:10:49 GMT
I don't think it is a question that anyone in the BREXIT ' party' is bothered about.... I've tried to explain the reasons above. Should people get disillusioned with the leader/ direction I'd think that they'd just fall away. Don't forget it's a new party and part of the philosophy is to be different. I think that in years to come the nation will regret not using Farage's leadership qualities ( admittedly in an age of poor alternatives) and his belief in the UK ...other views are possible. I think in years to come the nation will wonder how the people were conned into thinking Farage was anything other than an opportunistic twat, a rancid wrecking ball without an ounce of constructive thought in his bones.
As I say other views are possible. I don't think that you are right though ( He's done remarkably well so far....17.4 m agreed with him in the referendum that he fought for).... what do you base your assessment on? |
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Post by serpico on Nov 17, 2019 18:16:29 GMT
for what its worth.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Nov 17, 2019 18:27:28 GMT
Latest polls...
It’s not looking good for the grizzled Marxists.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2019 18:37:58 GMT
Latest polls... It’s not looking good for the grizzled Marxists. I’m not so sure. The more this becomes a 2 horse race, the less the margin for error for the Tories |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 18:41:03 GMT
I don't think it is a question that anyone in the BREXIT ' party' is bothered about.... I've tried to explain the reasons above. Should people get disillusioned with the leader/ direction I'd think that they'd just fall away. Don't forget it's a new party and part of the philosophy is to be different. I think that in years to come the nation will regret not using Farage's leadership qualities ( admittedly in an age of poor alternatives) and his belief in the UK ...other views are possible. I think in years to come the nation will wonder how the people were conned into thinking Farage was anything other than an opportunistic twat, a rancid wrecking ball without an ounce of constructive thought in his bones.
They weren't conned. They have continually rejected him at every general election he has stood in. So much so that he seems terrified to face the scrutiny of the people now. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 19:03:44 GMT
I think in years to come the nation will wonder how the people were conned into thinking Farage was anything other than an opportunistic twat, a rancid wrecking ball without an ounce of constructive thought in his bones.
They weren't conned. They have continually rejected him at every general election he has stood in. So much so that he seems terrified to face the scrutiny of the people now. I don't think that the nation has rejected him in respect of BREXIT...17.4 m agreed with him. Funnily enough he also leads the biggest party in the all important EU. He's been very successful.. it's very difficult to break into the two party closed shop.....which If anything cons the traditional working class.... Labour nor Corbyn certainly do not represent them. Can you remember this working class lad....I think that he is nearer to Farage than Corbyn.... perhaps Farage is actually saying what he wants to hear.....I bet he would have loved to have voted Labour.... that's one that's been lost, there will be a couple more. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 19:43:46 GMT
They weren't conned. They have continually rejected him at every general election he has stood in. So much so that he seems terrified to face the scrutiny of the people now. I don't think that the nation has rejected him in respect of BREXIT...17.4 m agreed with him. Funnily enough he also leads the biggest party in the all important EU. He's been very successful.. it's very difficult to break into the two party closed shop.....which If anything cons the traditional working class.... Labour nor Corbyn certainly do not represent them. Can you remember this working class lad....I think that he is nearer to Farage than Corbyn.... perhaps Farage is actually saying what he wants to hear.....I bet he would have loved to have voted Labour.... that's one that's been lost, there will be a couple more. I think his failure to stand has really let the average working class, Brexit voter down. And now he gives them even less options by standing down 300-odd candidates to support a deal that he had originally said was poor. The working class were being shat on enough, even before their supposed saviour dumped a new pile on their head. Where they turn to now I don't know. Maybe they were turning away from the BP before this decision (given the party's slump in the polls) but it must be a real kick in the teeth for them now. I'm sure this working class lad didn't want to be told that he can't vote for the Brexit Party. There's only one thing worse than not hearing what you want, and that's hearing what you want by someone who has nothing at all to back it up with. But I guess it's all about opinions. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 17, 2019 19:51:02 GMT
I really don't understand why anyone is giving the slightest fuck about this election, it's already been decided what will happen. The Brexit Party have already withdrawn from a bunch of Tory areas to make it seem like the Tories actually want Brexit so people will vote for them, this gives the Tories a lead in the polls which is perfect for 'operation Tory fuck-up' that comes just before the election. We then end up with a parliament which once again can't get anything passed, so we get an extension, followed by another extension, followed by yet another extension, and we de facto Remain.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 19:57:14 GMT
I don't think that the nation has rejected him in respect of BREXIT...17.4 m agreed with him. Funnily enough he also leads the biggest party in the all important EU. He's been very successful.. it's very difficult to break into the two party closed shop.....which If anything cons the traditional working class.... Labour nor Corbyn certainly do not represent them. Can you remember this working class lad....I think that he is nearer to Farage than Corbyn.... perhaps Farage is actually saying what he wants to hear.....I bet he would have loved to have voted Labour.... that's one that's been lost, there will be a couple more. I think his failure to stand has really let the average working class, Brexit voter down. And now he gives them even less options by standing down 300-odd candidates to support a deal that he had originally said was poor. The working class were being shat on enough, even before their supposed saviour dumped a new pile on their head. Where they turn to now I don't know. Maybe they were turning away from the BP before this decision (given the party's slump in the polls) but it must be a real kick in the teeth for them now. I'm sure this working class lad didn't want to be told that he can't vote for the Brexit Party. There's only one thing worse than not hearing what you want, and that's hearing what you want by someone who has nothing at all to back it up with. But I guess it's all about opinions. I think that he hasn't let the working class down.Far From it. In the northern working class seats like Barnsley where the lad is from he still has the option to vote for the BREXIT party. In the places where the Tories are the existing seat holders the electorate have the option to vote Tory without splitting the vote... an argument can be made that Farage had listened and possibly against his better judgement has acted to give BREXIT a better chance....of course it should not be like this if the honourable members had honoured the promises made at the referendum or if the Labour party had listened. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 20:01:33 GMT
I really don't understand why anyone is giving the slightest fuck about this election, it's already been decided what will happen. The Brexit Party have already withdrawn from a bunch of Tory areas to make it seem like the Tories actually want Brexit so people will vote for them, this gives the Tories a lead in the polls which is perfect for 'operation Tory fuck-up' that comes just before the election. We then end up with a parliament which once again can't get anything passed, so we get an extension, followed by another extension, followed by yet another extension, and we de facto Remain. Possible, but you are more cynical than me DC.... that's why I've said that Farage has still got a part to play in trying to ensure that Boris does as promised. I agree that what you say could happen but I honestly think that medium term the government will not be able to hide the fact that we have not left the EU if as you say de facto we do not leave. I think that the message about the true nature of the EU is getting through to more people , even including the young. |
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That of course depends on whether you mean wrong tecnically or morally as one is definitely not wrong the other is upto your own viewpoint.
