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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 11, 2019 22:26:03 GMT
Hi I’ve got a quick question more about the brexit party ltd in general as opposed to the specific point about his party standing down in specific seats. Why hasn’t he issued a manifesto in line with convention? Do you find NF’s view that there should be a ‘move toward an insurance based system of healthcare’ troubling considing the high regard the NHS is held in amongst voters and the work the NHS does protecting the vulnerable and low income earners compared to many insurance based systems in other countries? Bojan, I'm not too concerned at the moment about other aspects of any manifesto, for me the most pressing issue is BREXIT. In the current climate Id prefer a party that puts the UK first. I think that is the most important single issue. I believe in the NHS.I wouldn't presume that s move towards an insurance based system would be in the manifesto. The health 2016 manifesto of UKIP was written by Louise Bours and was totally committed to a free NHS at the point of delivery. Having said that we need some honesty about the NHS. For me it shouldn't be a political football. Health care is already rationed by means of the decisions of NICE and by postcode. If we treasure it we need to be able to discuss it honestly and to tackle flaws and inefficiency. Thanks for answering my questions I promise I’ll stop asking them in a min 😂 I don’t meet many Brexit party ltd voters so I just have one or two questions, I will try to remain respectful throughout t.co/Y72L3jvCsP?amp=1Within the admittedly remain bias article, there is a link to a ‘detailed plan’ laid out by leave.eu in which brexit is described as ‘a managed process’ and single market membership seems in my view to be laid out as a positive. Do you feel betrayed that this seems different to the no deal on offer now? And would you accept a May style soft brexit if it was offered as a way to break this compromise? Is a no deal always what you voted for? I should at this point say I voted remain and would still prefer that outcome but could see why a soft brexit, in the style of the one labour are on about could be attractive to groups with concerns about the EU and the cost of membership |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2019 22:33:04 GMT
bought off bought off General election: Nigel Farage admits he was offered a peerage 48 hours before Brexit U-turn linkYou sound worried. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 11, 2019 22:35:14 GMT
Otherwise, a stand up guy. Nick who ? |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 11, 2019 22:38:35 GMT
So far Johnson has
perogued parliament to try and get a no deal and stop scrutiny of parliament
lied to the queen
lied to parliament
lied to the courts
walked out on parliament and the speaker on a point of order
tried to get the civil service to cost labours pledges a political task they are not allowed to do
offer a peerage to buy of ferage again illegal
he has constantly lied cheated and manipulated people for his own gain. yet some on here trust him and anything he says
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 22:39:30 GMT
Bojan, I'm not too concerned at the moment about other aspects of any manifesto, for me the most pressing issue is BREXIT. In the current climate Id prefer a party that puts the UK first. I think that is the most important single issue. I believe in the NHS.I wouldn't presume that s move towards an insurance based system would be in the manifesto. The health 2016 manifesto of UKIP was written by Louise Bours and was totally committed to a free NHS at the point of delivery. Having said that we need some honesty about the NHS. For me it shouldn't be a political football. Health care is already rationed by means of the decisions of NICE and by postcode. If we treasure it we need to be able to discuss it honestly and to tackle flaws and inefficiency. Thanks for answering my questions I promise I’ll stop asking them in a min 😂 I don’t meet many Brexit party ltd voters so I just have one or two questions, I will try to remain respectful throughout t.co/Y72L3jvCsP?amp=1Within the admittedly remain bias article, there is a link to a ‘detailed plan’ laid out by leave.eu in which brexit is described as ‘a managed process’ and single market membership seems in my view to be laid out as a positive. Do you feel betrayed that this seems different to the no deal on offer now? And would you accept a May style soft brexit if it was offered as a way to break this compromise? Is a no deal always what you voted for? I should at this point say I voted remain and would still prefer that outcome but could see why a soft brexit, in the style of the one labour are on about could be attractive to groups with concerns about the EU and the cost of membership I've tried to skim through the link in the time given. For me , way before holding the referendum was even agreed, I've wanted out of the EU because I don't want political and economic union. It's as simple as that. That's what the project is about. Not deals. Not trade deals. My model would be Australia or Japan etc free independent countries who trade with Europe. I love Europe and the Europeans in general. But I don't want them to make decisions for our country nor do I think that they would make decisions in the best interests of our country . What is best for France and Malta might not be best for us. I don't like top down organisations that don't encourage any grassroots democratic input. Each country has a different relationship to the EU be it Switzerland, Norway, Canada etc....we should have our own....BUT to get there it means both parties acting in good faith and accepting the decision to leave. It's not compulsory to be a member. But as the EU and Remainers don't want us to leave there has never been a genuine attempt to do so. And to answer your question on May , I think that she was deliberately deceitful and totally out of her depth as a genuine negotiator with the EU. On reflection she was a Remainer who wanted a cosy relationship and never genuinely had any passion for leaving. From the off she accepted the EU's insistence on a divorce settlement and WA....we did not need that ( or Indeed Article 50) to leave in actuality. I can understand the argument that Boris's deal is a closely revamped version of May's so yes I do have reservations as do many others including Farage; whether Farage is correct or telling the truth about his reasons for changing tact time will tell...as will his dependence on Boris delivering what Farage says his 'new' stance/ promise ...ie Canada plus and out by the end of 2020. Only time will tell |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 11, 2019 22:49:28 GMT
Thanks for answering my questions I promise I’ll stop asking them in a min 😂 I don’t meet many Brexit party ltd voters so I just have one or two questions, I will try to remain respectful throughout t.co/Y72L3jvCsP?amp=1Within the admittedly remain bias article, there is a link to a ‘detailed plan’ laid out by leave.eu in which brexit is described as ‘a managed process’ and single market membership seems in my view to be laid out as a positive. Do you feel betrayed that this seems different to the no deal on offer now? And would you accept a May style soft brexit if it was offered as a way to break this compromise? Is a no deal always what you voted for? I should at this point say I voted remain and would still prefer that outcome but could see why a soft brexit, in the style of the one labour are on about could be attractive to groups with concerns about the EU and the cost of membership I've tried to skim through the link in the time given. For me , way before holding the referendum was even agreed, I've wanted out of the EU because I don't want political and economic union. It's as simple as that. That's what the project is about. Not deals. Not trade deals. My model would be Australia or Japan etc free independent countries who trade with Europe. I love Europe and the Europeans in general. But I don't want them to make decisions for our country nor do I think that they would make decisions in the best interests of our country . What is best for France and Malta might not be best for us. I don't like top down organisations that don't encourage any grassroots democratic input. Each country has a different relationship to the EU be it Switzerland, Norway, Canada etc....we should have our own....BUT to get there it means both parties acting in good faith and accepting the decision to leave. It's not compulsory to be a member. But as the EU and Remainers don't want us to leave there has never been a genuine attempt to do so. but here's the crux of your argument and the big fault in your argument by leaving all this may happen if we were in we had one thing to stop any of this and form Europe in the way we thought it should go and that was the veto that we had on anything and were giving this up and for what ? a political little England nimby attitude, and a vision of Britain from its colonial past where britania rules the waves, workers rights were few and far between and we had 2 world wars and a manufacturing industry that has all but vanished . |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 11, 2019 22:51:49 GMT
So according to Newsnight it's the Brexit Party dealing directly with the ERG that has caused todays announcement. Nice to see that the right wing lunatics have properly taken over the asylum and are now running the show.  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 22:59:30 GMT
I've tried to skim through the link in the time given. For me , way before holding the referendum was even agreed, I've wanted out of the EU because I don't want political and economic union. It's as simple as that. That's what the project is about. Not deals. Not trade deals. My model would be Australia or Japan etc free independent countries who trade with Europe. I love Europe and the Europeans in general. But I don't want them to make decisions for our country nor do I think that they would make decisions in the best interests of our country . What is best for France and Malta might not be best for us. I don't like top down organisations that don't encourage any grassroots democratic input. Each country has a different relationship to the EU be it Switzerland, Norway, Canada etc....we should have our own....BUT to get there it means both parties acting in good faith and accepting the decision to leave. It's not compulsory to be a member. But as the EU and Remainers don't want us to leave there has never been a genuine attempt to do so. but here's the crux of your argument and the big fault in your argument by leaving all this may happen if we were in we had one thing to stop any of this and form Europe in the way we thought it should go and that was the veto that we had on anything and were giving this up and for what ? a political little England nimby attitude, and a vision of Britain from its colonial past where britania rules the waves, workers rights were few and far between and we had 2 world wars and a manufacturing industry that has all but vanished . Not really Essex. The plan in the treaties is ever closer union....i believe that eventually we would be required or persuaded ( in collusion with our remain Parliament) to give up the vetoes.... Clarke has argued for this( and admitted that he was wring) and Verhofstadt has mentioned it many times. And if we didn't join the Euro we would be at a massive disadvantage within the club as the control of the currency is key to political control....we would either have to be "in" or have the worst of all worlds. Times change. I don't know why Remainers are obsessed with the British Empire , that's long gone. As has the protectionism of the Western world in the global world and the emerging economies. Perhaps the Empire building that you should be concerned about is the EU Empire. Speaking at the Liberal Democrat conference, the flamboyant euro-federalist said: “The world of tomorrow is a world of empires, in which we Europeans and you British can only defend your interests, your way of life by doing it together in a European framework and a European Union.” morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/verhofstadt-eu-empire-is-only-way-to-defend-britain |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 12, 2019 7:10:18 GMT
It’s been a good few days for the Tories - mainly because they haven’t said very much. But, an own goal is never far away. Their decision not to publish the “Russian” report is going to keep coming back. Hillary Clinton is now wading in; 'Shameful' not to publish Russia report. And when Hillary says something is shameful you’d better take notice. She is, after all, an authority on that subject. They should just publish the bloody thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 7:11:13 GMT
Nige is put under pressure to stand down even in northern labour seats
That’s me out...regardless of handing it to remain party
No way will I vote for conservative, labour or liberals
They are not bullshitting their way to my vote ever again
I was hoping we could vote for change this time, alas it’s more of the same
I half hope Corbyn gets in now, just to fuck up westminster and teachers the young a lesson they’ll never forget
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 7:12:15 GMT
It’s been a good few days for the Tories - mainly because they haven’t said very much. But, an own goal is never far away. Their decision not to publish the “Russian” report is going to keep coming back. Hillary Clinton is now wading in; 'Shameful' not to publish Russia report. And when Hillary says something is shameful you’d better take notice. She is, after all, an authority on that subject. They should just publish the bloody thing. They should. They won’t.,, |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 12, 2019 7:25:59 GMT
So according to Newsnight it's the Brexit Party dealing directly with the ERG that has caused todays announcement. Nice to see that the right wing lunatics have properly taken over the asylum and are now running the show. I doubt that. The reality is Farage has overreached. Since Johnson got the backing of the ERG, he has become an increasingly marginalised figure within his own party as well as generally in the country. His recent pronouncements have only made this worse. His performance yesterday explaining the decision to not stand against the Tories was, being generous, unconvincing. I reckon you can expect to see further statements on more seats they won’t contest in marginal labour seats. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2019 8:15:34 GMT
So according to Newsnight it's the Brexit Party dealing directly with the ERG that has caused todays announcement. Nice to see that the right wing lunatics have properly taken over the asylum and are now running the show. I doubt that. The reality is Farage has overreached. Since Johnson got the backing of the ERG, he has become an increasingly marginalised figure within his own party as well as generally in the country. His recent pronouncements have only made this worse. His performance yesterday explaining the decision to not stand against the Tories was, being generous, unconvincing. I reckon you can expect to see further statements on more seats they won’t contest in marginal labour seats. The BREXIT party may well withdraw from seats that are marginal and in the eyes of those who believe that the BREXIT party would split the Leave vote it could be argued that Farage has listened/ seen sense. His threat to stand in all seats may have been a strategy/ ploy to influence the Tories stance ( either overtly or covertly)....I don't think that we will know the truth until way after the election if at all, but protagonists will interpret it in ways to suit their cause. |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 12, 2019 8:51:12 GMT
I doubt that. The reality is Farage has overreached. Since Johnson got the backing of the ERG, he has become an increasingly marginalised figure within his own party as well as generally in the country. His recent pronouncements have only made this worse. His performance yesterday explaining the decision to not stand against the Tories was, being generous, unconvincing. I reckon you can expect to see further statements on more seats they won’t contest in marginal labour seats. The BREXIT party may well withdraw from seats that are marginal and in the eyes of those who believe that the BREXIT party would split the Leave vote it could be argued that Farage has listened/ seen sense. His threat to stand in all seats may have been a strategy/ ploy to influence the Tories stance ( either overtly or covertly)....I don't think that we will know the truth until way after the election if at all, but protagonists will interpret it in ways to suit their cause. That is how Farage was presenting his decision yesterday. He sounded less than convincing though. Then again, I've not heard many (any!) politician from any party sound convincing when being challenged on their policies or actions. All it seems anyone can do with any conviction is criticise their opponents. This morning was a case in point as a Tory boy on Radio 4 was unable to answer directly any questions on what the Tories are doing choosing instead to lay into Labour. What a feeble bunch. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 12, 2019 9:04:10 GMT
Shows Lord Farage can be bought off !! and you cant trust him or Johnson !! as I've said before brexit is about money and the rich and mega rich not wanting to pay tax on their hidden money!! No it isnt at all…... |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 12, 2019 9:06:44 GMT
Further evidence of Farage's delusion this morning; he is asking the Tories to stand down in some seats in return for his gesture from yesterday.
There is no chance of that happening.
He's like a bad poker player trying to bluff when everyone knows he is holding a poor hand.
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 12, 2019 9:34:03 GMT
So far Johnson has perogued parliament to try and get a no deal and stop scrutiny of parliament lied to the queen lied to parliament lied to the courts walked out on parliament and the speaker on a point of order tried to get the civil service to cost labours pledges a political task they are not allowed to do offer a peerage to buy of ferage again illegal he has constantly lied cheated and manipulated people for his own gain. yet some on here trust him and anything he says While Jeremy Corbyn is 'whiter than white'.....yeah right ! |
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Post by serpico on Nov 12, 2019 9:54:57 GMT
It’s been a good few days for the Tories - mainly because they haven’t said very much. But, an own goal is never far away. Their decision not to publish the “Russian” report is going to keep coming back. Hillary Clinton is now wading in; 'Shameful' not to publish Russia report. And when Hillary says something is shameful you’d better take notice. She is, after all, an authority on that subject. They should just publish the bloody thing. If it’s like all the other Russia stuff it will be another damp squib hyped by the left, it probably shows what we already know, that the Tories have taken money from western based rich Russian businessmen, which has been common knowledge for a long time. |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 12, 2019 10:05:03 GMT
It’s been a good few days for the Tories - mainly because they haven’t said very much. But, an own goal is never far away. Their decision not to publish the “Russian” report is going to keep coming back. Hillary Clinton is now wading in; 'Shameful' not to publish Russia report. And when Hillary says something is shameful you’d better take notice. She is, after all, an authority on that subject. They should just publish the bloody thing. If it’s like all the other Russia stuff it will be another damp squib hyped by the left, it probably shows what we already know, that the Tories have taken money from western based rich Russian businessmen. So publish the bloody thing then. If only because it detracts from a Tory attack line on Corbyn; his bizarre prevarication on the Salisbury novichok poisoning. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 12, 2019 10:39:20 GMT
If it’s like all the other Russia stuff it will be another damp squib hyped by the left, it probably shows what we already know, that the Tories have taken money from western based rich Russian businessmen. So publish the bloody thing then. If only because it detracts from a Tory attack line on Corbyn; his bizarre prevarication on the Salisbury novichok poisoning. They probably will, but first they’ll let the lefts imagination go into overdrive, I’m already seeing leftists claiming Boris Johnson is a bona fide Russian asset/agent, when the report is released it can’t possibly live up to the hype. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 12, 2019 11:02:37 GMT
Nige is put under pressure to stand down even in northern labour seats That’s me out...regardless of handing it to remain party No way will I vote for conservative, labour or liberals They are not bullshitting their way to my vote ever again I was hoping we could vote for change this time, alas it’s more of the same I half hope Corbyn gets in now, just to fuck up westminster and teachers the young a lesson they’ll never forget Teachers the young, a freudian slip ?lilfraise is not inheriting the (paint) roller then  |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 12, 2019 11:24:14 GMT
UKIP and the brexit party should never have been more than a BREXIT lobby organisation. On that front they have achieved their aim. Nearly In the uk politics they would never be a force except for vote splitters. In the Eu parliment different because it’s a totally different organisation. The last EU referendum should have been a wake up call to all the parties but only the tories half opened their eyes. This country would be a lot stronger now if parliment has got behind the result and did Brexit. Parliment was remain, the MPs were remain so it is them that have made the public more entrenched in leave/remain positions. We should have this sorted by January then we start on the issues. That is why this is a brexit GE. Until that is sorted no party can concentrate on the real issues in this country. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 12, 2019 11:59:21 GMT
Remainers panicking
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 12, 2019 12:14:49 GMT
So far Johnson has perogued parliament to try and get a no deal and stop scrutiny of parliament lied to the queen lied to parliament lied to the courts walked out on parliament and the speaker on a point of order tried to get the civil service to cost labours pledges a political task they are not allowed to do offer a peerage to buy of ferage again illegal he has constantly lied cheated and manipulated people for his own gain. yet some on here trust him and anything he says While Jeremy Corbyn is 'whiter than white'.....yeah right ! Not bad for a few months in power but guess what "Corbyn is whiter than white" Classic response from a lost argument.  O yeah I owe you one TIT.  |
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 12, 2019 12:25:30 GMT
While Jeremy Corbyn is 'whiter than white'.....yeah right ! Not bad for a few months in power but guess what "Corbyn is whiter than white" Classic response from a lost argument. O yeah I owe you one TIT. What lost argument? Im not arguing with anyone fella….just enjoy reading you and sheiky going into meltdown and winding you up thats all. I couldnt give two shits about BREXIT to be honest but find it quite amusing reading all the claptrap you come out with Oh -BTW - Vote Tory !  |
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 12, 2019 12:30:56 GMT
Not bad for a few months in power but guess what "Corbyn is whiter than white" Classic response from a lost argument. O yeah I owe you one TIT. What lost argument? Im not arguing with anyone fella….just enjoy reading you and sheiky going into meltdown and winding you up thats all. I couldnt give two shits about BREXIT to be honest but find it quite amusing reading all the claptrap you come out with Oh -BTW - Vote Tory ! Meltdown? Well most people residing in this country do give two shits ,Im just a concerned employer,and you find it funny. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 12:37:02 GMT
Out of curiosity Eggybread, being as yesterday you labelled all Tories & Brexit Party followers fascists and obviously by default the Labour party as fascists too, as there 2017 manifesto was too support the democratic vote to leave the EU. Does that mean by default you'll be voting Lib Dem at the election? No shame if you are just curious as you've already slandered the other 3 parties.
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 12, 2019 12:38:23 GMT
What lost argument? Im not arguing with anyone fella….just enjoy reading you and sheiky going into meltdown and winding you up thats all. I couldnt give two shits about BREXIT to be honest but find it quite amusing reading all the claptrap you come out with Oh -BTW - Vote Tory ! Meltdown? Well most people residing in this country do give two shits ,Im just a concerned employer,and you find it funny. I refer the right honourable poster to my comments some moments ago….. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 12, 2019 13:06:29 GMT
Further evidence of Farage's delusion this morning; he is asking the Tories to stand down in some seats in return for his gesture from yesterday. There is no chance of that happening. He's like a bad poker player trying to bluff when everyone knows he is holding a poor hand. The Brexiteer Farage will dump His promise to go on the stump In Tory-held seats, A climbdown that meets The wish of his boss, Donald Trump. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2019 13:52:51 GMT
Further evidence of Farage's delusion this morning; he is asking the Tories to stand down in some seats in return for his gesture from yesterday. There is no chance of that happening. He's like a bad poker player trying to bluff when everyone knows he is holding a poor hand. Farage is far from delusional. Most astute and politically aware politician around. He has already won the right to a referendum, won the referendum , formed a new party at short notice that effectively got rid of May, challenged the political status quo and caused the resignation/ decision not to stand for many career politicians as well as heading the largest UK party in the EU ' Parliament' He should not have to win the referendum twice , his predicament indicates the enormous task facing UK politics and perhaps ultimately he won't win the battle, who knows?.....if he doesn't it becomes more of an issue for UK democracy and the class/ political divide than it does for Farage. As far as being delusional.... perhaps he is fully aware that the the Tories will not give way ...but he had ' put it out there' that he has made a request should there be any accusations of causing s split vote. The Tories ( nor Labour) have a divine automatic right to people's votes( irrespective of " reality" and tradition) . It would make sense for the Tories to stand aside in the 150 " unwinnable" seats....but of course they won't for reasons already mentioned, political suicide, Farage will know this. As he had already made concessions based somewhat on a gamble he should have also given away on 20/ 30 marginals.....if he does indeed do so , it's a pity he did not make the announcement at the same time. |
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O yeah I owe you one TIT. 
