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Post by serpico on Nov 11, 2019 16:30:27 GMT
Shows Lord Farage can be bought off !! and you cant trust him or Johnson !! as I've said before brexit is about money and the rich and mega rich not wanting to pay tax on their hidden money!! the problem with your theory is that most of the moneyed class voted remain, they like the eu. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 16:39:24 GMT
I think that he was in a position where he could not really win from a BREXIT perspective Momo. If the Party had stood in every seat and indeed had split the vote he would have been accused of throwing BREXIT away and it's all about him. As it is he has either listened to or succomed to pressure not to stand in Tory seats which obviously gives a better chance of Boris's deal going through. Im sure that he still has reservations about it ( i personally think that he is correct). He will be trying to hold Boris to his word on Canada plus and the 2020 date....but he has no real choice really. Already some Brexiteers in " Tory majority" seats were wishing that the party would stand as realistically they only have the Boris deal to choose.... something that they may not wish to do. For me it all hinges on what happens post election ( obviously) if we get a Conservatory majority...ie is Boris's "deal"/ withdrawal treaty only part one of the Brexit disentanglement....there are still battles to be won.....or will Boris's negotiations end in membership of the CU, SM and jurisdiction of the EU court...ie not BREXIT. As far as Labour are concerned they have made their own bed...it is clear ( but ridiculous, complicated and a continuation of the uncertainty, thwart with arguments about the referendum" question", dependent upon the EU opening negotiations with someone who doesn't believe in the negotiation ( It is clear to me that Corbyn' s idea of a " better" deal will basically be one in which the EU gets absolutely everything it wants)). There's absolutely no reason that the BREXIT party should not stand against them to give the electorate the choice....if anything it could be argued that Farage is putting country before party and Johnson ought to withdraw candidates in seats in which it is believed that they conceivably cannot win and leave it to the BREXIT party to fight it out with Labour and the do called LibDems......of course they won't do that, political suicide for a party that considers itself to be the natural party of government not to have a candidate in every seat. |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 11, 2019 16:40:23 GMT
Shows Lord Farage can be bought off !! and you cant trust him or Johnson !! as I've said before brexit is about money and the rich and mega rich not wanting to pay tax on their hidden money!! the problem with your theory is that most of the moneyed class voted remain, they like the eu. Not to mention all those wealthy land owners losing the EU subsidies. When you've finished twisting the facts you should remember brexit was supported by huge numbers of working class labour constituencies |
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 11, 2019 16:40:50 GMT
If you’re male, white, over 45, working class and live in a Northern town, the Tories want your vote. If you give it to them, I presume you also like wearing a bondage suit with spikes on the inside while dangling your testicles in a tank full of piranhas.  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 16:41:24 GMT
He delivered on Brexit via a "once in a life time democratic referendum" only the spineless authorities and the whinging bitches wouldn't accept democracy hence he has had to show his face again and kick the traitors in charge up the arse again, mission accomplished he has pretty much handed this to Boris on a plate and fcuked the Marxist back sliders up in one move. All he really doing is withdrawing from conservative held seats which will only support the status quo . Johnson needs to pick up at least another 20 seats to have a working majority for the next 5 years . If we have another hung parliament it will be a disaster. Farage needs to step aside from the top 20 conservative target seats unless he's hoping for enough seats to support the conservatives. Or Harry the Tories to step aside in 150 of their least winnable ( or both parties reciprocate) but the Tories won't do that. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 11, 2019 16:44:22 GMT
I think that he was in a position where he could not really win from a BREXIT perspective Momo. If the Party had stood in every seat and indeed had split the vote he would have been accused of throwing BREXIT away and it's all about him. As it is he has either listened to or succomed to pressure not to stand in Tory seats which obviously gives a better chance of Boris's deal going through. Im sure that he still has reservations about it ( i personally think that he is correct). He will be trying to hold Boris to his word on Canada plus and the 2020 date....but he has no real choice really. Already some Brexiteers in " Tory majority" seats were wishing that the party would stand as realistically they only have the Boris deal to choose.... something that they may not wish to do. For me it all hinges on what happens post election ( obviously) if we get a Conservatory majority...ie is Boris's "deal"/ withdrawal treaty only part one of the Brexit disentanglement....there are still battles to be won.....or will Boris's negotiations end in membership of the CU, SM and jurisdiction of the EU court...ie not BREXIT. As far as Labour are concerned they have made their own bed...it is clear ( but ridiculous, complicated and a continuation of the uncertainty, thwart with arguments about the referendum" question", dependent upon the EU opening negotiations with someone who doesn't believe in the negotiation ( It is clear to me that Corbyn' s idea of a " better" deal will basically be one in which the EU gets absolutely everything it wants)). There's absolutely no reason that the BREXIT party should not stand against them to give the electorate the choice....if anything it could be argued that Farage is putting country before party and Johnson ought to withdraw candidates in seats in which it is believed that they conceivably cannot win and leave it to the BREXIT party to fight it out with Labour and the do called LibDems......of course they won't do that, political suicide for a party that considers itself to be the natural party of government not to have a candidate in every seat. They Tories don't have a candidate in Hartlepool at the minute BJR and don't look like selecting one either. It's a right wing stitch up. |
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Post by pearo on Nov 11, 2019 16:46:07 GMT
If you’re male, white, over 45, working class and live in a Northern town, the Tories want your vote. If you give it to them, I presume you also like wearing a bondage suit with spikes on the inside while dangling your testicles in a tank full of piranhas. And they will get those votes because Corbyn and his cronies have not get the testicles to dangle anywhere. |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 11, 2019 16:47:06 GMT
All he really doing is withdrawing from conservative held seats which will only support the status quo . Johnson needs to pick up at least another 20 seats to have a working majority for the next 5 years . If we have another hung parliament it will be a disaster. Farage needs to step aside from the top 20 conservative target seats unless he's hoping for enough seats to support the conservatives. Or Harry the Tories to step aside in 150 of their least winnable ( or both parties reciprocate) but the Tories won't do that. If that happened john it would mean an electoral pact with the Brexit party , something Johnson ruled out weeks ago . I don't think farage would support Johnson with his brexit deal anyway so he's just keeping him at arms length |
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Post by serpico on Nov 11, 2019 16:49:56 GMT
Or Harry the Tories to step aside in 150 of their least winnable ( or both parties reciprocate) but the Tories won't do that. If that happened john it would mean an electoral pact with the Brexit party , something Johnson ruled out weeks ago . I don't think farage would support Johnson with his brexit deal anyway so he's just keeping him at arms length Johnson has been floating the idea of a super canada+ deal, if he's genuine on this then Farage would support him. metro.co.uk/2019/11/11/boris-johnson-tries-woo-nigel-farage-latest-brexit-deadline-11077295/ |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 16:50:42 GMT
I think that he was in a position where he could not really win from a BREXIT perspective Momo. If the Party had stood in every seat and indeed had split the vote he would have been accused of throwing BREXIT away and it's all about him. As it is he has either listened to or succomed to pressure not to stand in Tory seats which obviously gives a better chance of Boris's deal going through. Im sure that he still has reservations about it ( i personally think that he is correct). He will be trying to hold Boris to his word on Canada plus and the 2020 date....but he has no real choice really. Already some Brexiteers in " Tory majority" seats were wishing that the party would stand as realistically they only have the Boris deal to choose.... something that they may not wish to do. For me it all hinges on what happens post election ( obviously) if we get a Conservatory majority...ie is Boris's "deal"/ withdrawal treaty only part one of the Brexit disentanglement....there are still battles to be won.....or will Boris's negotiations end in membership of the CU, SM and jurisdiction of the EU court...ie not BREXIT. As far as Labour are concerned they have made their own bed...it is clear ( but ridiculous, complicated and a continuation of the uncertainty, thwart with arguments about the referendum" question", dependent upon the EU opening negotiations with someone who doesn't believe in the negotiation ( It is clear to me that Corbyn' s idea of a " better" deal will basically be one in which the EU gets absolutely everything it wants)). There's absolutely no reason that the BREXIT party should not stand against them to give the electorate the choice....if anything it could be argued that Farage is putting country before party and Johnson ought to withdraw candidates in seats in which it is believed that they conceivably cannot win and leave it to the BREXIT party to fight it out with Labour and the do called LibDems......of course they won't do that, political suicide for a party that considers itself to be the natural party of government not to have a candidate in every seat. They Tories don't have a candidate in Hartlepool at the minute BJR and don't look like selecting one either. It's a right wing stitch up. From my perspective then Momo unfortunately I am in favour of that. I'd imagine that the Tories have not got a chance of winning....so based purely on what I think is the biggest single issue for the UK, BREXIT, why split the leave vote ( kinda reversal of what people expected Farage to do).....If Labour policy is more attractive in a very poor traditional working class Labour constituency they will win it....if not they won't....it will be the ordinary people of Hartlepool who decide.... presumably they are not ultra right wing nasty racist uncaring loons |
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Post by algor on Nov 11, 2019 16:52:07 GMT
I think that he was in a position where he could not really win from a BREXIT perspective Momo. If the Party had stood in every seat and indeed had split the vote he would have been accused of throwing BREXIT away and it's all about him. As it is he has either listened to or succomed to pressure not to stand in Tory seats which obviously gives a better chance of Boris's deal going through. Im sure that he still has reservations about it ( i personally think that he is correct). He will be trying to hold Boris to his word on Canada plus and the 2020 date....but he has no real choice really. Already some Brexiteers in " Tory majority" seats were wishing that the party would stand as realistically they only have the Boris deal to choose.... something that they may not wish to do. For me it all hinges on what happens post election ( obviously) if we get a Conservatory majority...ie is Boris's "deal"/ withdrawal treaty only part one of the Brexit disentanglement....there are still battles to be won.....or will Boris's negotiations end in membership of the CU, SM and jurisdiction of the EU court...ie not BREXIT. As far as Labour are concerned they have made their own bed...it is clear ( but ridiculous, complicated and a continuation of the uncertainty, thwart with arguments about the referendum" question", dependent upon the EU opening negotiations with someone who doesn't believe in the negotiation ( It is clear to me that Corbyn' s idea of a " better" deal will basically be one in which the EU gets absolutely everything it wants)). There's absolutely no reason that the BREXIT party should not stand against them to give the electorate the choice....if anything it could be argued that Farage is putting country before party and Johnson ought to withdraw candidates in seats in which it is believed that they conceivably cannot win and leave it to the BREXIT party to fight it out with Labour and the do called LibDems......of course they won't do that, political suicide for a party that considers itself to be the natural party of government not to have a candidate in every seat. They Tories don't have a candidate in Hartlepool at the minute BJR and don't look like selecting one either. It's a right wing stitch up. Midlands deputy party chairman Arun Photay will be standing in Hartlepool for the Tories. Wow you are just so wrong, so often! |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 11, 2019 16:52:22 GMT
If your thinking of voting for Johnson and holding your nose what are you actually achieving by this !!
1 you will be electing a proven lier
2 A person who ignores the law of the land
3 A party that has cut real term funding to schools, the nhs, border forces, emergency services
, etc etc etc
4 A party that has cut the amount people get in benefits by freezing them while council tax benefits have been cut resulting in millions of families going into poverty and many having to result to food banks
5 a party that has overseen the absolute calamity in social care and mental health services
6 A party that has cut 20000 police resulting in a rise in violent crime
7 A party that has constantly cut spending on the poorest in society while giving tax breaks to the richest
If you vote for the tories you have another 5 years of this!! Is it worth it?
one party although some on here don't like it are the only party giving you a real alternative with an investment in our infrastructure, investing in our public services, and the only party willing to give you the final say by a referendum!! if you are going to hold your nose on anything look at the policies of the other parties and don't vote for the leader vote for the policies that they are going to implement hold your nose and vote for them at least you know that you wont get that there policies are meant to help the poor and those that need a leg up!!
So don't vote for Johnson or the tories you cannot trust him or anything he says!!!!
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 11, 2019 16:55:34 GMT
Shows Lord Farage can be bought off !! and you cant trust him or Johnson !! as I've said before brexit is about money and the rich and mega rich not wanting to pay tax on their hidden money!! the problem with your theory is that most of the moneyed class voted remain, they like the eu. It seems to be those with the most to hide on tax that back us going out of the eu!! I wonder why!! oh the eu law on tax havens ! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 16:55:39 GMT
Serpico, a very important phrase is " if he's genuine"... that's been the problem from June 2016 onwards... genuine, honourable politicians...if he can be trusted AND if he has the right majority to do it.....which puts the BREXIT party in the difficult position of trusting lifelong political class members.... having already won the referendum three and a half years ago |
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 11, 2019 16:57:28 GMT
So it seems that nobody gives one jot about the chaotic shambles what we call the UK.The countries economy is on its knees again, the NHS is crumbling,homeless all over the streets of Britain,low wages (Stoke) zero hour contracts the list is endless. And people are still voting for them. Unbelievable.
What have the tories ever done for Stoke-On-Trent the current local ran council or central government?
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 11, 2019 16:59:45 GMT
If your thinking of voting for Johnson and holding your nose what are you actually achieving by this !! 1 you will be electing a proven lier 2 A person who ignores the law of the land 3 A party that has cut real term funding to schools, the nhs, border forces, emergency services , etc etc etc 4 A party that has cut the amount people get in benefits by freezing them while council tax benefits have been cut resulting in millions of families going into poverty and many having to result to food banks 5 a party that has overseen the absolute calamity in social care and mental health services 6 A party that has cut 20000 police resulting in a rise in violent crime 7 A party that has constantly cut spending on the poorest in society while giving tax breaks to the richest If you vote for the tories you have another 5 years of this!! Is it worth it? one party although some on here don't like it are the only party giving you a real alternative with an investment in our infrastructure, investing in our public services, and the only party willing to give you the final say by a referendum!! if you are going to hold your nose on anything look at the policies of the other parties and don't vote for the leader vote for the policies that they are going to implement hold your nose and vote for them at least you know that you wont get that there policies are meant to help the poor and those that need a leg up!! So don't vote for Johnson or the tories you cannot trust him or anything he says!!!! Nothing else matter mate apart from brexit and thats that.Nothing.As a business owner its incredibly worrying times. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 11, 2019 17:00:39 GMT
They Tories don't have a candidate in Hartlepool at the minute BJR and don't look like selecting one either. It's a right wing stitch up. Midlands deputy party chairman Arun Photay will be standing in Hartlepool for the Tory's. Wow you are just so wrong, so often! Just reporting what was on the independent earlier. Remind me wise one, why were they scratching around for a candidate so late in the day? Vote Johnson get Farage. |
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Post by algor on Nov 11, 2019 17:02:44 GMT
Midlands deputy party chairman Arun Photay will be standing in Hartlepool for the Tory's. Wow you are just so wrong, so often! Just reporting what was on the independent earlier. Remind me wise one, why were they scratching around for a candidate so late in the day? Vote Johnson get Farage. Just pointing out that your "right wing stitch up" comment was baseless! |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 11, 2019 17:05:11 GMT
Just reporting what was on the independent earlier. Remind me wise one, why were they scratching around for a candidate so late in the day? Vote Johnson get Farage. Just pointing out that your "right wing stitch up" comment was baseless! Well see as the campaign progresses, just for clarity the previous Tory contender pulled out because he didn't want to split the Leave vote. Johnson and Farage. Two cheeks of the same arse. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2019 17:05:13 GMT
Or Harry the Tories to step aside in 150 of their least winnable ( or both parties reciprocate) but the Tories won't do that. If that happened john it would mean an electoral pact with the Brexit party , something Johnson ruled out weeks ago . I don't think farage would support Johnson with his brexit deal anyway so he's just keeping him at arms length Also I don't think that the powers behind the scenes in those parties who think that they have an unchallengeable right to be the only ones allowed to govern ( Conservatives Labour and even the LibDems) could not contemplate not contesting every seat... they would be portrayed as not a national party...... putting party before country. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 11, 2019 17:14:12 GMT
Serpico, a very important phrase is " if he's genuine"... that's been the problem from June 2916 onwards... genuine, honourable politicians...if he can be trusted AND if he has the right majority to do it.....which puts the BREXIT party in the difficult position of trusting lifelong political class members.... having already won the referendum three and a half years ago "june 2916 onwards" ... bloody hell, this brexit process really is dragging out  Its entirely possible Johnson was just showing Farage a bit of leg and isn't really planning on going for a super Canada+ deal, although he has spoken of it previously, so who knows ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 17:17:24 GMT
It was obvious that Farage would do this despite him saying only a week or so ago it was "a betrayal of Brexit" and "in some ways worse than remaining" There's 59 seats where the Tories have a majority of less than 5%, be interesting to see if Labour join forces with the "Remain alliance" to form a "People's Vote Alliance" It's all bent as arses. Any dirty tricks will be used by all sides. I am past caring, to be honest. Whoever gets in will be a bag of wank. I agree Tricky, but some will definitely be more wank than others !  |
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Post by serpico on Nov 11, 2019 17:23:47 GMT
the problem with your theory is that most of the moneyed class voted remain, they like the eu. It seems to be those with the most to hide on tax that back us going out of the eu!! I wonder why!! oh the eu law on tax havens ! I don't doubt that some rich folk were motivated by this, but on the whole they were for remain, many of them like the regulations of the EU because it stifles any competition, its called "regulatory capture" The eu has been a great hiding place for the super rich, thats one of the reasons lefties used to be opposed to it. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 11, 2019 17:34:51 GMT
the problem with your theory is that most of the moneyed class voted remain, they like the eu. It seems to be those with the most to hide on tax that back us going out of the eu!! I wonder why!! oh the eu law on tax havens ! also, if the people of this country are concerned about tax laws they can vote for a party which will clamp down on things like offshore banking etc, its not as if once we're out of the EU it means we can't create our own laws to do this. |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 11, 2019 17:40:21 GMT
It seems to be those with the most to hide on tax that back us going out of the eu!! I wonder why!! oh the eu law on tax havens ! also, if the people of this country are concerned about tax laws they can vote for a party which will clamp down on things like offshore banking etc, its not as if once we're out of the EU it means we can't create our own laws to do this. And Corbin would have been better leading a party that had detailed plans to shape the UK after the WA for Brexit. Instead he and his party thwarted the WA thus making brexit not happen. His manifesto can’t really be done outside the EU either. He should have stood up to the PLP In his defence he has had Blair and his disciples sniping from the back and front |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 11, 2019 18:12:10 GMT
also, if the people of this country are concerned about tax laws they can vote for a party which will clamp down on things like offshore banking etc, its not as if once we're out of the EU it means we can't create our own laws to do this. And Corbin would have been better leading a party that had detailed plans to shape the UK after the WA for Brexit. Instead he and his party thwarted the WA thus making brexit not happen. His manifesto can’t really be done outside the EU either. He should have stood up to the PLP In his defence he has had Blair and his disciples sniping from the back and front Labours Brexit strategy had little or nothing to do with Brexit it was always about undermining the government in any way they could |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 18:18:47 GMT
He delivered on Brexit via a "once in a life time democratic referendum" only the spineless authorities and the whinging bitches wouldn't accept democracy hence he has had to show his face again and kick the traitors in charge up the arse again, mission accomplished he has pretty much handed this to Boris on a plate and fcuked the Marxist back sliders up in one move. All he really doing is withdrawing from conservative held seats which will only support the status quo . Johnson needs to pick up at least another 20 seats to have a working majority for the next 5 years . If we have another hung parliament it will be a disaster. Farage needs to step aside from the top 20 conservative target seats unless he's hoping for enough seats to support the conservatives. That's his plan in my opinion |
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 11, 2019 18:23:05 GMT
Please before considering voting for this Conservative party ( that has lost many of its moderate wing) consider thier record with disabled people. It’s awful and has caused tremendous suffering
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 11, 2019 18:23:52 GMT
All he really doing is withdrawing from conservative held seats which will only support the status quo . Johnson needs to pick up at least another 20 seats to have a working majority for the next 5 years . If we have another hung parliament it will be a disaster. Farage needs to step aside from the top 20 conservative target seats unless he's hoping for enough seats to support the conservatives. That's his plan in my opinion I think he wants to keep Johnsons feet to the fire Brexit wise |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 11, 2019 18:26:40 GMT
Please before considering voting for this Conservative party ( that has lost many of its moderate wing) consider thier record with disabled people. It’s awful and has caused tremendous suffering Just remember austerity was a product of the moderate wing |
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