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Post by partickpotter on Nov 28, 2019 20:17:03 GMT
There are only 7 countries in the EU with a higher debt to gdp ratio - the so called PIGS and France, Belgium and Cyprus. The PIGS are economic basket cases, Cyprus’s economy is basically tied to Greece while France is a disaster zone. Must admit I’m a little surprised to see Belgium in that group. The point is our debt is still very, very high. Without ‘austerity’ we’d be right up there with the likes of Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Not a good place to be. It’s an interesting question - have a read of the TUC article. There’s evidence austerity stalled the economy and therefore has made it worse. There’s a link in the article to Philip Hammond admitting this himself. That’s also why there’s been so many academics and economists backing Labours spending plans as they believe they will help the economy. Labour’s spending plans are ludicrous. I honestly think they have written them expecting never to be in power. It’s more to encourage the Tories to up their commitments in response so the Tories fail to deliver when they win this election. Anyway, enough for me now. I’m going to watch the Irishman.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 20:18:22 GMT
I saw a reply where you said do working people think the Labour Party doesn’t care for them anymore and I completely agree. Especially the working class leave areas. Labour should be walking this election but they’re not and it’s a huge reason. I think a lot of Labour supporters feel the same. But for me I had to put that aside and can’t vote for a party that has shown completely and utter contempt for the poorest in society. Yeah I remember writing something along those lines. It’s not that Labour doesn’t care for them, it’s worse than that. They treat their Northern heartlands with contempt. I reckon the Islington Set is even more removed from the aspirations and attitudes of the Northern working class that the Bullingdon Boys. Which is saying something. I don’t think quite as far removed myself (especially given their interests in retaining their own wealth/family businesses/ the huge corporations that fund them) but agree it’s lost it’s way. New Labour did a lot of damage and this Labour government haven’t really helped themselves.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 20:19:01 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Nov 28, 2019 20:19:49 GMT
I saw a reply where you said do working people think the Labour Party doesn’t care for them anymore and I completely agree. Especially the working class leave areas. Labour should be walking this election but they’re not and it’s a huge reason. I think a lot of Labour supporters feel the same. But for me I had to put that aside and can’t vote for a party that has shown completely and utter contempt for the poorest in society. Yeah I remember writing something along those lines. It’s not that Labour doesn’t care for them, it’s worse than that. They treat their Northern heartlands with contempt. I reckon the Islington Set is even more removed from the aspirations and attitudes of the Northern working class that the Bullingdon Boys. Which is saying something. It became fashionable in the mid 90s to be wealthy and vote for labour The party is now full of these people so caters more for them than the traditional working class. They don’t need the working class until an election
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 20:36:23 GMT
Yeah I remember writing something along those lines. It’s not that Labour doesn’t care for them, it’s worse than that. They treat their Northern heartlands with contempt. I reckon the Islington Set is even more removed from the aspirations and attitudes of the Northern working class that the Bullingdon Boys. Which is saying something. It became fashionable in the mid 90s to be wealthy and vote for labour The party is now full of these people so caters more for them than the traditional working class. They don’t need the working class until an election I agree. Especially with New Labour’s “centrist” policies. The Labour Party since it’s inception has been middle class socialists aligning themselves with the working class movement. Most working class MPs were Liberal MPs before the inception of the Labour Party which was founded by a mixture of middle class socialist societies. They were trade unionists and when the Labour Party formed some of them moved over and some didn’t then later the TUC made them switch over. It’s swung from end to the other throughout its history but gone too far one way. I don’t however think this manifesto is aimed at the wealthy. It might however be too late for many. I can understand why working people feel it’s not their party anymore. But I still can’t understand why a working class person would vote Conservative especially after everything this Conservative government has done to increase inequality. It’s a sad state of affairs.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 21:01:19 GMT
It became fashionable in the mid 90s to be wealthy and vote for labour The party is now full of these people so caters more for them than the traditional working class. They don’t need the working class until an election I agree. Especially with New Labour’s “centrist” policies. The Labour Party since it’s inception has been middle class socialists aligning themselves with the working class movement. Most working class MPs were Liberal MPs before the inception of the Labour Party which was founded by a mixture of middle class socialist societies. They were trade unionists and when the Labour Party formed some of them moved over and some didn’t then later the TUC made them switch over. It’s swung from end to the other throughout its history but gone too far one way. I don’t however think this manifesto is aimed at the wealthy. It might however be too late for many. I can understand why working people feel it’s not their party anymore. But I still can’t understand why a working class person would vote Conservative especially after everything this Conservative government has done to increase inequality. It’s a sad state of affairs. Maybe they don't like the thought that the likes of Theresa May will be gifted twenty odd thousand pounds in a £58 billion giveaway that will be paid for by their children and grandchildren under a Labour Government? Maybe married couples on low incomes don't take too kindly to losing £250.00 a year under a Labour Government? Maybe the whole country is a little worried that under a Labour government some of the very richest entrepreneurs may relocate leaving a massive tax burden on the middle classes? I understand your loyalty to Labour, but please don't patronise people who don't share that view.
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Post by questionable on Nov 28, 2019 21:02:34 GMT
It’s an interesting question - have a read of the TUC article. There’s evidence austerity stalled the economy and therefore has made it worse. There’s a link in the article to Philip Hammond admitting this himself. That’s also why there’s been so many academics and economists backing Labours spending plans as they believe they will help the economy. Labour’s spending plans are ludicrous. I honestly think they have written them expecting never to be in power. It’s more to encourage the Tories to up their commitments in response so the Tories fail to deliver when they win this election. Anyway, enough for me now. I’m going to watch the Irishman. Watching it now, enjoyed so far but Christ just realised it’s 3 1/2 hours long
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2019 21:04:00 GMT
What a wonderful straight talking fella this lad is. Honest to the bone, straight talking and willing to put his policies under the strongest scrutiny. What as asset to this country he'll be
Fucking lying, cowardly, tosspot.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 21:17:06 GMT
What a wonderful straight talking fella this lad is. Honest to the bone, straight talking and willing to put his policies under the strongest scrutiny. What as asset to this country he'll be Fucking lying, cowardly, tosspot. To be fair I don't think Johnson ever promised a Neil interview. You could always argue who has the better judgement, Corbyn or Johnson?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 21:17:42 GMT
I agree. Especially with New Labour’s “centrist” policies. The Labour Party since it’s inception has been middle class socialists aligning themselves with the working class movement. Most working class MPs were Liberal MPs before the inception of the Labour Party which was founded by a mixture of middle class socialist societies. They were trade unionists and when the Labour Party formed some of them moved over and some didn’t then later the TUC made them switch over. It’s swung from end to the other throughout its history but gone too far one way. I don’t however think this manifesto is aimed at the wealthy. It might however be too late for many. I can understand why working people feel it’s not their party anymore. But I still can’t understand why a working class person would vote Conservative especially after everything this Conservative government has done to increase inequality. It’s a sad state of affairs. Maybe they don't like the thought that the likes of Theresa May will be gifted twenty odd thousand pounds in a £58 billion giveaway that will be paid for by their children and grandchildren under a Labour Government? Maybe married couples on low incomes don't take too kindly to losing £250.00 a year under a Labour Government? Maybe the whole country is a little worried that under a Labour government some of the very richest entrepreneurs may relocate leaving a massive tax burden on the middle classes? I understand your loyalty to Labour, but please don't patronise people who don't share that view. I’m not patronising anyone. Your points are all valid points. It’s the suggestion that Labour is not the working persons friend but the Conservatives somehow are. And have working people’s interests at heart. Theresa May and her family with all their private business interests will make a good deal more under a Conservative government and it’s ridiculous she will get anything but I just think of the other women who have been unable to make ends meet. It shouldn’t have been done. At least not the way it was and with the lack of any sufficient time to plan. The whole thing is shocking.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 21:20:12 GMT
What a wonderful straight talking fella this lad is. Honest to the bone, straight talking and willing to put his policies under the strongest scrutiny. What as asset to this country he'll be Fucking lying, cowardly, tosspot. To be fair I don't think Johnson ever promised a Neil interview. You could always argue who has the better judgement, Corbyn or Johnson? It was expected he would. . It’s concerning that you think this is better judgement by him to avoid this because he knows he can’t stand up to scrutiny. It might be better for him but isn’t that basically admitting he’s not telling the full story and so if he’s questioned he’ll come off badly?
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 21:28:22 GMT
To be fair I don't think Johnson ever promised a Neil interview. You could always argue who has the better judgement, Corbyn or Johnson? It was expected he would. . It’s concerning that you think this is better judgement by him to avoid this because he knows he can’t stand up to scrutiny. It might be better for him but isn’t that basically admitting he’s not telling the full story and so if he’s questioned he’ll come off badly? It's politics, Corbyn was a rabbit in the headlights, didn't know what hit him and he won't recover from that. Neil is the most articulate interviewer in the land and I actually felt sorry for Corbyn watching it. Johnson has no need to take that risk, he'll get pelters for ducking the challenge and rightly so but the risk of doing the interview is higher.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 21:34:54 GMT
It was expected he would. . It’s concerning that you think this is better judgement by him to avoid this because he knows he can’t stand up to scrutiny. It might be better for him but isn’t that basically admitting he’s not telling the full story and so if he’s questioned he’ll come off badly? It's politics, Corbyn was a rabbit in the headlights, didn't know what hit him and he won't recover from that. Neil is the most articulate interviewer in the land and I actually felt sorry for Corbyn watching it. Johnson has no need to take that risk, he'll get pelters for ducking the challenge and rightly so but the risk of doing the interview is higher. So it doesn’t concern you as a voter that our Prime Minister is afraid to stand up to scrutiny? I think that’s the issue people have with it. It’s like well what are you hiding because you know Andrew Neil will dig deeper. As you say Neil is an incredible interviewer but he deals in fact and challenges people. I didn’t feel sorry for Corbyn because this is his job and they were all questions that needed to be asked. I’d rather have the best possible idea of what I’m voting for. Warts and all. People have lost so much faith in politicians. Brexit, this election, have all been a shambles but this to me is just making it worse. What does he have to hide?
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 21:43:11 GMT
It's politics, Corbyn was a rabbit in the headlights, didn't know what hit him and he won't recover from that. Neil is the most articulate interviewer in the land and I actually felt sorry for Corbyn watching it. Johnson has no need to take that risk, he'll get pelters for ducking the challenge and rightly so but the risk of doing the interview is higher. So it doesn’t concern you as a voter that our Prime Minister is afraid to stand up to scrutiny? I think that’s the issue people have with it. It’s like well what are you hiding because you know Andrew Neil will dig deeper. As you say Neil is an incredible interviewer but he deals in fact and challenges people. I didn’t feel sorry for Corbyn because this is his job and they were all questions that needed to be asked. I’d rather have the best possible idea of what I’m voting for. Warts and all. People have lost so much faith in politicians. Brexit, this election, have all been a shambles but this to me is just making it worse. What does he have to hide? I actually don't think he has that much to hide but someone like Neil focuses on a subject that is an Achilles Heel to a politician like anti-Semitism for Corbyn or NHS American privatisation for Johnson and it's a media frenzy. There is no need for Johnson to do the interview.
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Post by 4372 on Nov 28, 2019 21:44:26 GMT
Not convinced it will make any difference if Johnson does the Andrew Neil interview or not. It will only confirm the view of him that most of us have, i.e. he is a lying turd, if he chooses not to be interviewed. Also there was one lady on Tv being interviewed earlier in the week. She said she was going to vote for Boorish because she liked him. At the time of the interview she was in a Food Bank collecting food for her two kids... It's almost impossible to argue with that level of logic. As for the Corbyn interview, I didn't watch it. Just sent my postal vote of yesterday anyway, and such interviews did not change my vote.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 21:50:40 GMT
Not convinced it will make any difference if Johnson does the Andrew Neil interview or not. It will only confirm the view of him that most of us have, i.e. he is a lying turd, if he chooses not to be interviewed. Also there was one lady on Tv being interviewed earlier in the week. She said she was going to vote for Boorish because she liked him. At the time of the interview she was in a Food Bank collecting food for her two kids... It's almost impossible to argue with that level of logic.As for the Corbyn interview, I didn't watch it. Just sent my postal vote of yesterday anyway, and such interviews did not change my vote. Maybe, just maybe that shows how fucking appalling Jeremy Corbyn is?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 21:54:20 GMT
So it doesn’t concern you as a voter that our Prime Minister is afraid to stand up to scrutiny? I think that’s the issue people have with it. It’s like well what are you hiding because you know Andrew Neil will dig deeper. As you say Neil is an incredible interviewer but he deals in fact and challenges people. I didn’t feel sorry for Corbyn because this is his job and they were all questions that needed to be asked. I’d rather have the best possible idea of what I’m voting for. Warts and all. People have lost so much faith in politicians. Brexit, this election, have all been a shambles but this to me is just making it worse. What does he have to hide? I actually don't think he has that much to hide but someone like Neil focuses on a subject that is an Achilles Heel to a politician like anti-Semitism for Corbyn or NHS American privatisation for Johnson and it's a media frenzy. There is no need for Johnson to do the interview. Both massively important subjects they should be challenged on.
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Post by algor on Nov 28, 2019 21:58:01 GMT
I actually don't think he has that much to hide but someone like Neil focuses on a subject that is an Achilles Heel to a politician like anti-Semitism for Corbyn or NHS American privatisation for Johnson and it's a media frenzy. There is no need for Johnson to do the interview. Both massively important subjects they should be challenged on. It's like drawing Vale in the Cup. Everything to lose and nothing to gain! A huge lead in the polls, no need to do it.
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Post by serpico on Nov 28, 2019 22:05:21 GMT
Johnsons interview with neil won't make any difference to the outcome of the election, nobody is suddenly going to change their mind just because andrew neil pulls out a 'gotcha' moment, as bad as it was i doubt his corbyns interview did much damage to him, the whole anti semitism thing has been hanging over labour for years now, its not like anything new was revealed, i doubt anything new would come out in an interview with Boris, the fact labourites are pushing so hard for it is just another sign of desperation.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 28, 2019 22:10:16 GMT
Both massively important subjects they should be challenged on. It's like drawing Vale in the Cup. Everything to lose and nothing to gain! A huge lead in the polls, no need to do it. Part of me would love to see a life long political anti EU campaigner leading Brexit from the EU, that man is of course Jezza his promise of free broadband and a £40,000 lump sum for the Waspi is hard to resist, I am going to change my mind nothing to do with the money of course which would pay for an Olympic sized swimming pool for our villa in Lanzarote and quite a few San Migs to boot when he takes his rightful place as the PM, I will even send him a postcard when we have relocated, Oh Jeremy Corbyn come on chaps you know it makes sense get rid of these lying Tory bastards
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 22:19:28 GMT
Both massively important subjects they should be challenged on. It's like drawing Vale in the Cup. Everything to lose and nothing to gain! A huge lead in the polls, no need to do it. You don’t even care about a Prime Minister standing up to scrutiny. Honestly what is the world coming to. I suppose you also support their refusal to take massively edited BBC clips down even though the BBC have asked them too and threatening to revoke Channel 4s licence when they, quite rightly, said Gove couldn’t take his place in the leaders debate this evening which Boris couldn’t be bothered to show to up. Propaganda machine in full swing. And people seem happy about that. You’re basically happy to be manipulated and possibly lied to.
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Post by algor on Nov 28, 2019 22:19:54 GMT
Johnsons interview with neil won't make any difference to the outcome of the election, nobody is suddenly going to change their mind just because andrew neil pulls out a 'gotcha' moment, as bad as it was i doubt his corbyns interview did much damage to him, the whole anti semitism thing has been hanging over labour for years now, its not like anything new was revealed, i doubt anything new would come out in an interview with Boris, the fact labourites are pushing so hard for it is just another sign of desperation. I don't agree mate, I think the revelation that a holocaust denier only received a warning and that he was going to find 58 Billion down the sofa for waspi added to the tax lies really opened a lot of peoples eyes! Agree on the desperation point though, catching up on the last few pages on here shows it! Looking forward to the Friday 13th Meltdown.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 28, 2019 22:20:53 GMT
They knew Gove would have wiped the floor with them.
Hey ho.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 22:23:05 GMT
It's like drawing Vale in the Cup. Everything to lose and nothing to gain! A huge lead in the polls, no need to do it. Part of me would love to see a life long political anti EU campaigner leading Brexit from the EU, that man is of course Jezza his promise of free broadband and a £40,000 lump sum for the Waspi is hard to resist, I am going to change my mind nothing to do with the money of course which would pay for an Olympic sized swimming pool for our villa in Lanzarote and quite a few San Migs to boot when he takes his rightful place as the PM, I will even send him a postcard when we have relocated, Oh Jeremy Corbyn come on chaps you know it makes sense get rid of these lying Tory bastards Life long political any EU campaigner. He’s chopped and changed as much as the rest of them. Whatever suits him at the time as with everything else www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-boris-johnson-has-changed-his-views-on-europeIf anything Corbyn was more anti EU throughout his life. He’s from the Tony Benn school of thought on it. He’s sold out to party demands though and that is downfall.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 22:24:57 GMT
They knew Gove would have wiped the floor with them. Hey ho. Lol the sent him at the last minute in a panic along with his dad. No-one is scared of the woodland troll Gove. Even people that support Boris know than man is bumbling buffoon.
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Post by 4372 on Nov 28, 2019 22:26:28 GMT
Not convinced it will make any difference if Johnson does the Andrew Neil interview or not. It will only confirm the view of him that most of us have, i.e. he is a lying turd, if he chooses not to be interviewed. Also there was one lady on Tv being interviewed earlier in the week. She said she was going to vote for Boorish because she liked him. At the time of the interview she was in a Food Bank collecting food for her two kids... It's almost impossible to argue with that level of logic.As for the Corbyn interview, I didn't watch it. Just sent my postal vote of yesterday anyway, and such interviews did not change my vote. Maybe, just maybe that shows how fucking appalling Jeremy Corbyn is? In a Food Bank, collecting food for her own children. Pretty desperate straits. A Conservative Government for the last nine years. And her response is to vote for Boorish because she likes him. I don't think her response said anything about Jeremy Corbyn at all. Maybe, just maybe, she was being hoodwinked into thinking that the Tories will make people in such conditions their priority.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 22:26:48 GMT
Johnsons interview with neil won't make any difference to the outcome of the election, nobody is suddenly going to change their mind just because andrew neil pulls out a 'gotcha' moment, as bad as it was i doubt his corbyns interview did much damage to him, the whole anti semitism thing has been hanging over labour for years now, its not like anything new was revealed, i doubt anything new would come out in an interview with Boris, the fact labourites are pushing so hard for it is just another sign of desperation. I don't agree mate, I think the revelation that a holocaust denier only received a warning and that he was going to find 58 Billion down the sofa for waspi added to the tax lies really opened a lot of peoples eyes! Agree on the desperation point though, catching up on the last few pages on here shows it! Looking forward to the Friday 13th Meltdown. It’s not going to be as good as the meltdown in a few years down the line when you’re paying for NHS you can’t afford and it’s entirely your own daft fault.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 28, 2019 22:28:42 GMT
I don't agree mate, I think the revelation that a holocaust denier only received a warning and that he was going to find 58 Billion down the sofa for waspi added to the tax lies really opened a lot of peoples eyes! Agree on the desperation point though, catching up on the last few pages on here shows it! Looking forward to the Friday 13th Meltdown. It’s not going to be as good as the meltdown in a few years down the line when you’re paying for NHS you can’t afford and it’s entirely your own daft fault. I’ve heard that scareline every election
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 28, 2019 22:29:15 GMT
It's like drawing Vale in the Cup. Everything to lose and nothing to gain! A huge lead in the polls, no need to do it. You don’t even care about a Prime Minister standing up to scrutiny. Honestly what is the world coming to. I suppose you also support their refusal to take massively edited BBC clips down even though the BBC have asked them too and threatening to revoke Channel 4s licence when they, quite rightly, said Gove couldn’t take his place in the leaders debate this evening which Boris couldn’t be bothered to show to up. Propaganda machine in full swing. And people seem happy about that. You’re basically happy to be manipulated and possibly lied to. Did the Channel 4 Climate Debate tickle anyone's fancy tonight? Did everyone promise to save the earth?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2019 22:31:21 GMT
They knew Gove would have wiped the floor with them. Hey ho. Gove wasn't invited as has been politely pointed out to Thickerley
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