|
Post by felonious on Nov 24, 2019 19:09:05 GMT
I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form. Funnily enough Juncker blames Blair for not wanting political Union.... says a lot really about those who refuse to accept, choose to ignore or don't wish to argue for political Union..... Juncker himself sees that at the heart of the vote to leave...... depending upon who he is talking to , of course. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-tony-blair-juncker-interview-referendum-remain-a9184781.htmlFrom the link; Tony Blair‘s approach to European integration as prime minister helped sow the seeds of Brexit by failing to make the case for political union in the UK, Jean-Claude Juncker has said. The outgoing European Commission president said that “my friend” Mr Blair was among politicians who “wanted nothing to do with the EU” as a political project while they were in office. “When it came to the political union, to moving closer together, they wanted nothing to do with the EU. That was even the case with my friend Tony Blair. If you stick to that narrative for over 40 years, it should not come as a surprise when people remember it during the referendum.” The infamous "Two Speed Europe" stick with which to beat those who couldn't take their electorates with them to full political union.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 19:09:45 GMT
After all the information you have kindly passed on to me I can categorically confirm it's a failure, no one uses it creates dangerous murderous despot regimes, Marx himself was a lazy bastard who never worked, hated Jews, shagged his housekeeper who he never paid a penny to in his life whilst he was married, disowned his own son, was a chain smoking alcoholic, wow that's some hero you have there son. You don't know what it is, and you don't know what I do or don't agree with. Honestly this is getting boring as hell. Either answer the question or learn about things before spouting rubbish online. I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Nov 24, 2019 19:23:50 GMT
You don't know what it is, and you don't know what I do or don't agree with. Honestly this is getting boring as hell. Either answer the question or learn about things before spouting rubbish online. I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that. Is it going to make hospital waiting times shorter? Is it going to support sustainability? Is it going to mean more money in your pocket each month?... This is what people care about.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 19:25:01 GMT
You don't know what it is, and you don't know what I do or don't agree with. Honestly this is getting boring as hell. Either answer the question or learn about things before spouting rubbish online. I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that. Basic Marxism is the idea that post capitalism there will be greater powers afforded to the working people, much as they rose up to defeat feudalism. This is the implementation of socialism. Where the state works to enhance the lives of its working classes, and gives everyone the basic needs to live a life. He then believed that this would eventually lead to full communism, where people's lives and self worth were not judged on monetary gain, as no-one had need for money, but on them working at their passions and interests, leading healthy, happier lives. This has big issues, and if it ever happens it will probably be with the advent of advanced AI that completes basic tasks for us to ensure all have food, water, power and shelter. Whether Marx was a twat personally or not makes no difference. My view is that I agree with him that socialism will probably rise in the future, as more people get annoyed at capitalism leaving them behind. I don't believe we'll ever reach a stage where humanity works with communism, but I hope we do, because that utopia sounds great, despite being unachievable with the current human mindset. Corbyn is not Marxist.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 19:35:28 GMT
I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that. Is it going to make hospital waiting times shorter? Is it going to support sustainability? Is it going to mean more money in your pocket each month?... This is what people care about. I don't know about Belgium ! neither do I care it doesn't effect me at all
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 24, 2019 19:41:28 GMT
Considering the amount of money spent on Joris’ education, he proper comes over as a bumbling idiot
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 19:41:42 GMT
I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that. Basic Marxism is the idea that post capitalism there will be greater powers afforded to the working people, much as they rose up to defeat feudalism. This is the implementation of socialism. Where the state works to enhance the lives of its working classes, and gives everyone the basic needs to live a life. He then believed that this would eventually lead to full communism, where people's lives and self worth were not judged on monetary gain, as no-one had need for money, but on them working at their passions and interests, leading healthy, happier lives. This has big issues, and if it ever happens it will probably be with the advent of advanced AI that completes basic tasks for us to ensure all have food, water, power and shelter. Whether Marx was a twat personally or not makes no difference. My view is that I agree with him that socialism will probably rise in the future, as more people get annoyed at capitalism leaving them behind. I don't believe we'll ever reach a stage where humanity works with communism, but I hope we do, because that utopia sounds great, despite being unachievable with the current human mindset. Corbyn is not Marxist. It's been a while since he predicted this rise in socialism in fact it's probably reduced since he snuffed it in 1883, I think history has proven that communism is a repressive, murderous idealism hence the break up of the soviet bloc and the unification of Germany, communism, is dead in the water only practised by a few oppressive regimes in the World, Utopia my arse it's proven to be more like hell ask the peoples who have been liberated from it.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Nov 24, 2019 19:58:18 GMT
"The backlash to Jeremy Corbyn’s sweeping nationalisation plans has begun, as two of the UK’s leading power companies said that they had shifted ownership of their British operations overseas." National Grid and SSE shift to overseas ownership linkThe very threat of a Corbyn government and people on here think the super rich will put up and shut up.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 20:12:03 GMT
I told you I didn't that's why I asked for learned advice, I deduced from that information that no country in the world uses it, probably due to the problems you outlined, after some research I found out he was a bone idle, Jew hating, chain smoking, alcoholic who basically kept his housekeeper as a slave, shagged her got her pregnant behind his wife's back then disowned his bastard son, if you want to follow the teachings of a total waster then crack on, there are some similarities there with Corbin I will give you that. Is it going to make hospital waiting times shorter? Is it going to support sustainability? Is it going to mean more money in your pocket each month?... This is what people care about. all this talk of sustainability seems to disappear when it comes to finances, £100b a year for a "green economy"... that sounds sustainable.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 20:15:04 GMT
"The backlash to Jeremy Corbyn’s sweeping nationalisation plans has begun, as two of the UK’s leading power companies said that they had shifted ownership of their British operations overseas." National Grid and SSE shift to overseas ownership linkThe very threat of a Corbyn government and people on here think the super rich will put up and shut up. the rich will be safe, they can afford the best financial advice, once the rich have either taken their money out of the country or simply left to invest elsewhere then Labour will come after the middle class to finance their massive state programs, once they've destroyed the middle class thats job done, everyones depended, then they can introduce full on communism and we'll all work for the state... see you in the gulag!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:15:31 GMT
Basic Marxism is the idea that post capitalism there will be greater powers afforded to the working people, much as they rose up to defeat feudalism. This is the implementation of socialism. Where the state works to enhance the lives of its working classes, and gives everyone the basic needs to live a life. He then believed that this would eventually lead to full communism, where people's lives and self worth were not judged on monetary gain, as no-one had need for money, but on them working at their passions and interests, leading healthy, happier lives. This has big issues, and if it ever happens it will probably be with the advent of advanced AI that completes basic tasks for us to ensure all have food, water, power and shelter. Whether Marx was a twat personally or not makes no difference. My view is that I agree with him that socialism will probably rise in the future, as more people get annoyed at capitalism leaving them behind. I don't believe we'll ever reach a stage where humanity works with communism, but I hope we do, because that utopia sounds great, despite being unachievable with the current human mindset. Corbyn is not Marxist. It's been a while since he predicted this rise in socialism in fact it's probably reduced since he snuffed it in 1883, I think history has proven that communism is a repressive, murderous idealism hence the break up of the soviet bloc and the unification of Germany, communism, is dead in the water only practised by a few oppressive regimes in the World, Utopia my arse it's proven to be more like hell ask the peoples who have been liberated from it. Almost every nation on Earth has become more society-oriented and 'socialist' since 1883. Especially those in the West. A few large 'communist' states have fallen, but society in general has become more tolerant, more helpful to those in need and more worker/lower class-oriented across the world. History has proven nothing because 'communism' has almost always been a front for greed and despotism. Hence why I said the ideal is good but not possible. I would like the ideal to work, one day, not the bastardised version that dictators have pretended to preach. I don't think it will work, hence why I'm not calling for it.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Nov 24, 2019 20:15:50 GMT
Is it going to make hospital waiting times shorter? Is it going to support sustainability? Is it going to mean more money in your pocket each month?... This is what people care about. all this talk of sustainability seems to disappear when it comes to finances, £100b a year for a "green economy"... that sounds sustainable. True, but it's important. It'll get more and more so over time.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:16:25 GMT
The very threat of a Corbyn government and people on here think the super rich will put up and shut up. the rich will be safe, they can afford the best financial advice, once the rich have either taken their money out of the country or simply left to invest elsewhere then Labour will come after the middle class to finance their massive state programs, once they've destroyed the middle class thats job done, everyones depended, then they can introduce full on communism and we'll all work for the state... see you in the gulag!You surely can't actually believe that?
|
|
|
Post by henry on Nov 24, 2019 20:18:37 GMT
"The backlash to Jeremy Corbyn’s sweeping nationalisation plans has begun, as two of the UK’s leading power companies said that they had shifted ownership of their British operations overseas." National Grid and SSE shift to overseas ownership linkThe very threat of a Corbyn government and people on here think the super rich will put up and shut up. That's the problem, they will either find a way round tax hikes or just fuck off, then the daft cunts in the middle end up paying for the fucking lot.
|
|
|
Post by Boothen on Nov 24, 2019 20:20:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 24, 2019 20:21:21 GMT
Almost every nation on Earth has become more society-oriented and 'socialist' since 1883. Especially those in the West. A few large 'communist' states have fallen, but society in general has become more tolerant, more helpful to those in need and more worker/lower class-oriented across the world. I don't really want to get dragged into this massively boring 'debate', but I'm pretty sure you've spent the last few months telling anyone who'll listen how terrible the western world is with it's evil capitalism. Now you're telling us we've spent the last 150 years being really tolerant & helpful to those in need. Which is it?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 20:22:33 GMT
It's been a while since he predicted this rise in socialism in fact it's probably reduced since he snuffed it in 1883, I think history has proven that communism is a repressive, murderous idealism hence the break up of the soviet bloc and the unification of Germany, communism, is dead in the water only practised by a few oppressive regimes in the World, Utopia my arse it's proven to be more like hell ask the peoples who have been liberated from it. Almost every nation on Earth has become more society-oriented and 'socialist' since 1883. Especially those in the West. A few large 'communist' states have fallen, but society in general has become more tolerant, more helpful to those in need and more worker/lower class-oriented across the world. History has proven nothing because 'communism' has almost always been a front for greed and despotism. Hence why I said the ideal is good but not possible. I would like the ideal to work, one day, not the bastardised version that dictators have pretended to preach. I don't think it will work, hence why I'm not calling for it. Where has this ideal ever worked for a long period of time ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:23:18 GMT
As of the weekend of the 20th/21st May in 2017 the polls had Labour behind by the following: Survation 12% ICM 14% Kantar 8% Panelbase 15% YouGov 9% As of the weekend of the 23rd/24th November the most recent polls have Labour behind by the following: ComRes 10% Panelbase 10% BMG 13% YouGov 12% Deltapoll 13% Much of a muchness really...... Well done for getting the comparison. My point though is Labour’s upswing was now established at this time in 2017 which your data would suggest is correct on the basis that the Tories had started 20 odd points ahead at the start of the 2017 election which had now been, at this stage of the campaign, cut in half. This time they’ve not yet been able to make inroads into the Tory lead. Of course that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - but I’d start to get worried if I was a Labour supporter if they don’t start closing the gap up soon. The parties have literally just released their manifestos and had the Question Time debate, essentially Labour are about as far behind now as they were this time in 2017. The recent batch of polls pre-date a lot of the last few days events so be interesting to see the trend for the next batch if you like polls I guess. Cynical old me doesn't read too much into them anyway, and as always 2 weeks is a long time in politics.....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:28:13 GMT
Almost every nation on Earth has become more society-oriented and 'socialist' since 1883. Especially those in the West. A few large 'communist' states have fallen, but society in general has become more tolerant, more helpful to those in need and more worker/lower class-oriented across the world. I don't really want to get dragged into this massively boring 'debate', but I'm pretty sure you've spent the last few months telling anyone who'll listen how terrible the western world is with it's evil capitalism. Now you're telling us we've spent the last 150 years being really tolerant & helpful to those in need. Which is it? When did I say that we've been really tolerant and helpful? The general trend has been pushing capitalism into more regulation in order to fund more and better public services for almost all developed nations.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:29:20 GMT
Almost every nation on Earth has become more society-oriented and 'socialist' since 1883. Especially those in the West. A few large 'communist' states have fallen, but society in general has become more tolerant, more helpful to those in need and more worker/lower class-oriented across the world. History has proven nothing because 'communism' has almost always been a front for greed and despotism. Hence why I said the ideal is good but not possible. I would like the ideal to work, one day, not the bastardised version that dictators have pretended to preach. I don't think it will work, hence why I'm not calling for it. Where has this ideal ever worked for a long period of time ? Fuck me, I'm saying it hasn't hence why I'm not calling for it. I hope it does work one day, but it would take too much of a change in human societal thinking, so I see no chance for many hundreds of years.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 20:33:25 GMT
Where has this ideal ever worked for a long period of time ? Fuck me, I'm saying it hasn't hence why I'm not calling for it. I hope it does work one day, but it would take too much of a change in human societal thinking, so I see no chance for many hundreds of years. So it has never worked and is never likely to work it's a pipe dream
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 20:34:57 GMT
the rich will be safe, they can afford the best financial advice, once the rich have either taken their money out of the country or simply left to invest elsewhere then Labour will come after the middle class to finance their massive state programs, once they've destroyed the middle class thats job done, everyones depended, then they can introduce full on communism and we'll all work for the state... see you in the gulag!You surely can't actually believe that? hyperbole, maybe, but we will be well on the road to serfdom. the point is, state socialism of the corbyn veriety will damage the private sector, and its the private sector that they will need to depend on for the taxes, they'll "soak" the rich and it will work for awhile, until they adjust to the new taxes by doing the things i say they will do in the previous post, and once theres been a money drain from the country labour will have to go looking for the taxes elsewhere AKA the middle class, and history shows once you destroy the middle class you destroy the country, you need a thriving middle class. socialism is great for awhile, until the long term consequences hit, which for us would be sooner rather than later because we're already in financial trouble RE borrowing and national debt, plus as we leave the EU we need to be as attractive as possible to investment, they won't be queuing up to set up business here under Corbyn, the regime uncertainty that labour would cause would make any potential investor very jittery, you'd be mad to invest in a country with such a unpredictable government.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:37:09 GMT
Fuck me, I'm saying it hasn't hence why I'm not calling for it. I hope it does work one day, but it would take too much of a change in human societal thinking, so I see no chance for many hundreds of years. So it has never worked and is never likely to work it's a pipe dream Do you read what people write before replying? Or do you just mash your head furiously against the keyboard and press 'send'?
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Nov 24, 2019 20:37:12 GMT
Well.
My wife is going to get about 20k from the pensions department if I vote Labour.
No brainer or what. 😁
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 24, 2019 20:39:17 GMT
I don't really want to get dragged into this massively boring 'debate', but I'm pretty sure you've spent the last few months telling anyone who'll listen how terrible the western world is with it's evil capitalism. Now you're telling us we've spent the last 150 years being really tolerant & helpful to those in need. Which is it? When did I say that we've been really tolerant and helpful? The general trend has been pushing capitalism into more regulation in order to fund more and better public services for almost all developed nations. In your own post just. 150 years, especially in the western world, being more tolerant & helpful of the needy/working classes/etc...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:40:03 GMT
You surely can't actually believe that? hyperbole, maybe, but we will be well on the road to serfdom. the point is, state socialism of the corbyn veriety will damage the private sector, and its the private sector that they will need to depend on for the taxes, they'll "soak" the rich and it will work for awhile, until they adjust to the new taxes by doing the things i say they will do in the previous post, and once theres been a money drain from the country labour will have to go looking for the taxes elsewhere AKA the middle class, and history shows once you destroy the middle class you destroy the country, you need a thriving middle class. socialism is great for awhile, until the long term consequences hit, which for us would be sooner rather than later because we're already in financial trouble RE borrowing and national debt, plus as we leave the EU we need to be as attractive as possible to investment, they won't be queuing up to set up business here under Corbyn, the regime uncertainty that labour would cause would make any potential investor very jittery, you'd be mad to invest in a country with such a unpredictable government. I just disagree, sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:40:49 GMT
When did I say that we've been really tolerant and helpful? The general trend has been pushing capitalism into more regulation in order to fund more and better public services for almost all developed nations. In your own post just. 150 years, especially in the western world, being more tolerant & helpful of the needy/working classes/etc... That doesn't mean we've been really tolerant, just that we've become more worker-oriented since 150 years ago, in general.
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 24, 2019 20:42:17 GMT
In your own post just. 150 years, especially in the western world, being more tolerant & helpful of the needy/working classes/etc... That doesn't mean we've been really tolerant, just that we've become more worker-oriented since 150 years ago, in general. Also means capitalism isn't pure evil, eh?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 20:43:46 GMT
So it has never worked and is never likely to work it's a pipe dream Do you read what people write before replying? Or do you just mash your head furiously against the keyboard and press 'send'? you have admitted it has never worked and admitted it won't for hundreds of years
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 20:44:57 GMT
hyperbole, maybe, but we will be well on the road to serfdom. the point is, state socialism of the corbyn veriety will damage the private sector, and its the private sector that they will need to depend on for the taxes, they'll "soak" the rich and it will work for awhile, until they adjust to the new taxes by doing the things i say they will do in the previous post, and once theres been a money drain from the country labour will have to go looking for the taxes elsewhere AKA the middle class, and history shows once you destroy the middle class you destroy the country, you need a thriving middle class. socialism is great for awhile, until the long term consequences hit, which for us would be sooner rather than later because we're already in financial trouble RE borrowing and national debt, plus as we leave the EU we need to be as attractive as possible to investment, they won't be queuing up to set up business here under Corbyn, the regime uncertainty that labour would cause would make any potential investor very jittery, you'd be mad to invest in a country with such a unpredictable government. I just disagree, sorry. you disagree that we need to make ourselves as attractive as possible to business investment when we leave the EU ?
|
|