|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 16:22:03 GMT
There doesn't seem to have been a post manifesto bounce for labour, maybe they've over promised and people see through it ? they might have scared off some of the middle class labour voters with their tax plans, i think some of them might say they're voting labour but secretly vote tory, which means the tories might win by a bigger margin than even the polls suggest ? when push comes to shove all those "i'm happy to pay more taxes" 80K+ a year labour voters might change their minds when they're at the voting booth ?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 16:29:28 GMT
Tony Bliar who opened the floodgates to mass uncontrolled immigration, Tony Bliar who signed the European constitution giving away many of our rights to the EU, Tony Bliar who took us into an illegal war resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and gave rise to the birth of ISIS, that Tony Bliar who you trust more than Boris Johnson Yes, that Tony Blair. A complete cunt of a man, but I fear BJ will do far worse given the chance, I wouldn’t trust him with anything. You would seriously trust a proven "cunt of a man" with evidence to hand of his errmmm misdemeanours than BJ who might do something worse , fucking hell are you on dugs ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 16:37:16 GMT
Yes, that Tony Blair. A complete cunt of a man, but I fear BJ will do far worse given the chance, I wouldn’t trust him with anything. You would seriously trust a proven "cunt of a man" with evidence to hand of his errmmm misdemeanours than BJ who might do something worse , fucking hell are you on dugs ? I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Nov 24, 2019 16:37:32 GMT
Really looking bleak for Labour. Latest calculus suggests Tory majority of 48. I suspect that will be on the lower side as well. Northerners flocking from Labour to Tory in their droves. Never thought I'd see the day. Great to see !!!! The Labour-lepers havent got the stomach for the Tory stormtroopers Goooaaarrrnnn Boris 😂😂
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 24, 2019 16:58:27 GMT
You would seriously trust a proven "cunt of a man" with evidence to hand of his errmmm misdemeanours than BJ who might do something worse , fucking hell are you on dugs ? I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form. Blair has very much been involved in politics since he didn't get his own way in the referendum
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 17:10:56 GMT
There is nowhere on earth, as far as I am aware, that practices unregulated capitalism. There are of course degrees of regulations. What you are missing is the principle reason behind capitalism’s success and “classic” socialism’s failure: competition. Competition drives innovation which results in progress. Of course, this needs regulation. But, the problem with socialism, is there is no competition which leads to stagnation. This is something the EU passionately believes in - albeit as part of a massive protectionist racket. This is why Corbyn is, or rather was, so opposed to it. Take for example the nationalisation of broadband. The EU will not allow it. That is if we are in the EU. The EU will allow it, that's not illegal under EU law. You can absolutely have competition within socialism. I agree with that for communism, but hence why it'll never be achieved. Socialism, especially in its modern application, is mostly ensuring that the people are in a position to contribute to a capitalist society by not allowing such huge levels of inequality that many cannot afford to survive or live good lives. It will fall foul of EU regulations on competition grounds because it will not allow the private sector to compete fairly open the broadband market. What the Government should be doing is the opposite of Labour’s proposals and inject more competition into the market (of course “traditional” socialism’s desire for nationalised industry indicates the competition isn’t something that system sees as necessary. As to the new form of socialism you are defining - that the purpose of socialism is to drive equality within the capitalist system - it seems a big stretch. What your are actually describing is inclusive capitalism. Or Tony Blair’s 3rd way. And it is a very desirable thing. Unfettered capitalism is lethal - check out what happened when the US banks collapsed during the banking crisis. So checks and balances are needed.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 24, 2019 17:11:56 GMT
You would seriously trust a proven "cunt of a man" with evidence to hand of his errmmm misdemeanours than BJ who might do something worse , fucking hell are you on dugs ? I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form. Funnily enough Juncker blames Blair for not wanting political Union.... says a lot really about those who refuse to accept, choose to ignore or don't wish to argue for political Union..... Juncker himself sees that at the heart of the vote to leave...... depending upon who he is talking to , of course. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-tony-blair-juncker-interview-referendum-remain-a9184781.htmlFrom the link; Tony Blair‘s approach to European integration as prime minister helped sow the seeds of Brexit by failing to make the case for political union in the UK, Jean-Claude Juncker has said. The outgoing European Commission president said that “my friend” Mr Blair was among politicians who “wanted nothing to do with the EU” as a political project while they were in office. “When it came to the political union, to moving closer together, they wanted nothing to do with the EU. That was even the case with my friend Tony Blair. If you stick to that narrative for over 40 years, it should not come as a surprise when people remember it during the referendum.”
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 17:14:09 GMT
Smug, smarmy, shitebag. Further evidence... I give you smug but I just see someone having a laugh at a journo having a nightmare and giving him a taste of what they happily dish out if you cant quote the cost in the second paragraph on page 32 only its quite a significant date Labour activist Lewis doesnt know, he is joining the BBC soon with him and Faisal therw will be a 24/7 propaganda pro Tory stories I am sure. He should have just walked away and said nothing. His job is to stay in the background. But he thought he could have some fun getting one over on a journalist. As it turns out he came out looking like a knob. Which ain’t too surprising. Because that is what he is.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 17:17:59 GMT
There is nowhere on earth, as far as I am aware, that practices unregulated capitalism. There are of course degrees of regulations. What you are missing is the principle reason behind capitalism’s success and “classic” socialism’s failure: competition. Competition drives innovation which results in progress. Of course, this needs regulation. But, the problem with socialism, is there is no competition which leads to stagnation. This is something the EU passionately believes in - albeit as part of a massive protectionist racket. This is why Corbyn is, or rather was, so opposed to it. Take for example the nationalisation of broadband. The EU will not allow it. That is if we are in the EU. Hence why just getting out of the Eu should be his number one aim. His passion. Because it’s the cornerstone of his policies Agreed. He’s been hijacked by the Labour’s middle class metropolitan wing who of course are as far divorced from the traditional working class in this country as it is possible to get.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 17:23:11 GMT
Really looking bleak for Labour. Latest calculus suggests Tory majority of 48. I suspect that will be on the lower side as well. Northerners flocking from Labour to Tory in their droves. Never thought I'd see the day. Last election the tories had a projected majority of 200+ and we all know what happened !! you also have to take into account tactical voting and regional differences. If the lib dem vote collapses as it seems to be then there leave voters would switch in areas where labour is the challenger or where they have a slim majority as they would see it as there only chance to stop brexit with a peoples vote. You would also see in lib dem target seats where they are the second party last time the labour supporters voting for them as they cant stand Johnson!! The thing is back in 2017 this was the weekend that Labour’s upturn in the polls started. That surge doesn’t appear to have started. Whose to say it will start. What is more likely is that extraordinary Labour surge is not repeatable. We will see.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 17:31:37 GMT
Really looking bleak for Labour. Latest calculus suggests Tory majority of 48. I suspect that will be on the lower side as well. Northerners flocking from Labour to Tory in their droves. Never thought I'd see the day. Is that the Boris effect or the effect Corbyn is having on historical Labour voters ?
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 17:31:55 GMT
I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form. Funnily enough Juncker blames Blair for not wanting political Union.... says a lot really about those who refuse to accept, choose to ignore or don't wish to argue for political Union..... Juncker himself sees that at the heart of the vote to leave...... depending upon who he is talking to , of course. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-tony-blair-juncker-interview-referendum-remain-a9184781.htmlFrom the link; Tony Blair‘s approach to European integration as prime minister helped sow the seeds of Brexit by failing to make the case for political union in the UK, Jean-Claude Juncker has said. The outgoing European Commission president said that “my friend” Mr Blair was among politicians who “wanted nothing to do with the EU” as a political project while they were in office. “When it came to the political union, to moving closer together, they wanted nothing to do with the EU. That was even the case with my friend Tony Blair. If you stick to that narrative for over 40 years, it should not come as a surprise when people remember it during the referendum.” Let’s not forget the shameful conduct of Labour over the Lisbon Treaty. This was the one they promised a referendum on in their 2005 manifesto and then failed to deliver. This was the one that Brown turned up late to sign up to hoping no one would notice what he had done. ( link)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 17:35:31 GMT
Really looking bleak for Labour. Latest calculus suggests Tory majority of 48. I suspect that will be on the lower side as well. Northerners flocking from Labour to Tory in their droves. Never thought I'd see the day. Great to see !!!! The Labour-lepers havent got the stomach for the Tory stormtroopers Goooaaarrrnnn Boris 😂😂 Boris will most likely win the election, but most definitely make things worse off for the vast majority on this message board. His own family don’t even trust him, that should tell you all you need to know about the man, he’ll fuck you all over before he is done. The British Trump. Make Britain Great Again... or more likely, make sure his name is in the history books, he doesn’t give a fuck about you.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 17:35:48 GMT
Last election the tories had a projected majority of 200+ and we all know what happened !! you also have to take into account tactical voting and regional differences. If the lib dem vote collapses as it seems to be then there leave voters would switch in areas where labour is the challenger or where they have a slim majority as they would see it as there only chance to stop brexit with a peoples vote. You would also see in lib dem target seats where they are the second party last time the labour supporters voting for them as they cant stand Johnson!! T he thing is back in 2017 this was the weekend that Labour’s upturn in the polls started.That surge doesn’t appear to have started. Whose to say it will start. What is more likely is that extraordinary Labour surge is not repeatable. We will see. As of the weekend of the 20th/21st May in 2017 the polls had Labour behind by the following: Survation 12% ICM 14% Kantar 8% Panelbase 15% YouGov 9% As of the weekend of the 23rd/24th November the most recent polls have Labour behind by the following: ComRes 10% Panelbase 10% BMG 13% YouGov 12% Deltapoll 13% Much of a muchness really......
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 24, 2019 17:58:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 18:00:16 GMT
T he thing is back in 2017 this was the weekend that Labour’s upturn in the polls started.That surge doesn’t appear to have started. Whose to say it will start. What is more likely is that extraordinary Labour surge is not repeatable. We will see. As of the weekend of the 20th/21st May in 2017 the polls had Labour behind by the following: Survation 12% ICM 14% Kantar 8% Panelbase 15% YouGov 9% As of the weekend of the 23rd/24th November the most recent polls have Labour behind by the following: ComRes 10% Panelbase 10% BMG 13% YouGov 12% Deltapoll 13% Much of a muchness really...... Brexit wasn't such a big issue back then though, 2 years of absolute horse shit from labour and corbyn on brexit could mean there won't be a late mini surge this time.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Nov 24, 2019 18:13:11 GMT
would have been well within his rights to turn around and slug him, nice right hook, square on the nose, bosh.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 18:16:52 GMT
T he thing is back in 2017 this was the weekend that Labour’s upturn in the polls started.That surge doesn’t appear to have started. Whose to say it will start. What is more likely is that extraordinary Labour surge is not repeatable. We will see. As of the weekend of the 20th/21st May in 2017 the polls had Labour behind by the following: Survation 12% ICM 14% Kantar 8% Panelbase 15% YouGov 9% As of the weekend of the 23rd/24th November the most recent polls have Labour behind by the following: ComRes 10% Panelbase 10% BMG 13% YouGov 12% Deltapoll 13% Much of a muchness really...... Well done for getting the comparison. My point though is Labour’s upswing was now established at this time in 2017 which your data would suggest is correct on the basis that the Tories had started 20 odd points ahead at the start of the 2017 election which had now been, at this stage of the campaign, cut in half. This time they’ve not yet been able to make inroads into the Tory lead. Of course that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - but I’d start to get worried if I was a Labour supporter if they don’t start closing the gap up soon.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 18:29:09 GMT
Is it? Since when is 'most people do it' an indication of morals? Followers of capitalism have similar issues, if you pick the worst out as you've done above. Besides the fact that 3 of those did not really follow any Marxist doctrine, they consolidated solely their own power and nothing else. And again, I don't believe in Marxism as it was being implemented now. I think democratic socialism is what will reform our current capitalism. I see so you are not a supporter of Marxism at all we got there in the end. When did I say that? When did I say I was or wasn't? And for the final time, tell me what it is?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 18:34:11 GMT
As of the weekend of the 20th/21st May in 2017 the polls had Labour behind by the following: Survation 12% ICM 14% Kantar 8% Panelbase 15% YouGov 9% As of the weekend of the 23rd/24th November the most recent polls have Labour behind by the following: ComRes 10% Panelbase 10% BMG 13% YouGov 12% Deltapoll 13% Much of a muchness really...... Well done for getting the comparison. My point though is Labour’s upswing was now established at this time in 2017 which your data would suggest is correct on the basis that the Tories had started 20 odd points ahead at the start of the 2017 election which had now been, at this stage of the campaign, cut in half. This time they’ve not yet been able to make inroads into the Tory lead. Of course that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - but I’d start to get worried if I was a Labour supporter if they don’t start closing the gap up soon. I wonder if they will bring in the convicted vote rigger Tariq Mahmood to help out from Peterborough, amazing how many postal votes we have nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by claytonscrubs on Nov 24, 2019 18:39:21 GMT
3 weeks to go.
At the last election at this time, polls were indicating a Labour bounce after their manifesto launch - this time NOTHING!!
That’s what happens when you have a leader as unpopular as Corbyn... Labour should have got rid of the Marxist clown, he’s toxic!!
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 18:40:16 GMT
I see so you are not a supporter of Marxism at all we got there in the end. When did I say that? When did I say I was or wasn't? And for the final time, tell me what it is? After all the information you have kindly passed on to me I can categorically confirm it's a failure, no one uses it creates dangerous murderous despot regimes, Marx himself was a lazy bastard who never worked, hated Jews, shagged his housekeeper who he never paid a penny to in his life whilst he was married, disowned his own son, was a chain smoking alcoholic, wow that's some hero you have there son.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 18:42:46 GMT
Surely that incident is a public order offence or possibly a hate crime, I wonder if the police will knocking on this blokes door ?
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Nov 24, 2019 18:45:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Nov 24, 2019 18:45:49 GMT
I don’t trust either of them, they are both liars, one of them is finished with politics now thankfully, I hope both are finished soon. If Boris does as expected get into power then a significant part of the population will have voted in their own worst interests, but that’s no surprise, you’ll get your Brexit in some form. Blair has very much been involved in politics since he didn't get his own way in the referendum Is this there more recent one or the one he promised and then failed to deliver? Blair and his teammate Brown were a proper Labour government despite what people say. They attempted to put most of the working population on benefits via the tax credit system encouraging people to work less or less harder because the state will provide. They obviously didn't bother with the sums because of the note that was left for future generations to pick up.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 24, 2019 18:49:22 GMT
Blair has very much been involved in politics since he didn't get his own way in the referendum Is this there more recent one or the one he promised and then failed to deliver? Blair and his teammate Brown were a proper Labour government despite what people say. They attempted to put most of the working population on benefits via the tax credit system encouraging people to work less or less harder because the state will provide. They obviously didn't bother with the sums because of the note that was left for future generations to pick up. Part of the plan to change the demographics to suit their needs, drag in unskilled workers from anywhere on shit wages and top it up with tax credits, bleed the system dry and wreck the economy which they did.
|
|
|
Post by swampmongrel on Nov 24, 2019 18:51:18 GMT
The kind of socialism we are seeing put forward by Sanders, Morales, et al. Based more on a market economy being heavily regulated than the previous 20th century ideas of a more 'hard' socialism. He was also a tosspot, yes. It's pretty difficult to find many who have genuinely abided by Marx because for the past 150 years almost all governance of nations has been authoritarian or capitalist. Understood - I think. What you are saying, is governments don’t own the means of production, but they set the regulations that govern how they work. This separation of state and industry is critical (and, of course, is counter to Marx). It also explains why the economies of Bolivia and Venezuela have performed so differently. Venezuela went full on socialist, privatising pretty much everything including the oil industries which subsequently collapsed due to catastrophic mismanagement as Chavez appointed incompetent friends to run the oil companies who ran them into the ground. Anarcho-syndicalism is the way forward👍😎
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 24, 2019 18:52:32 GMT
Understood - I think. What you are saying, is governments don’t own the means of production, but they set the regulations that govern how they work. This separation of state and industry is critical (and, of course, is counter to Marx). It also explains why the economies of Bolivia and Venezuela have performed so differently. Venezuela went full on socialist, privatising pretty much everything including the oil industries which subsequently collapsed due to catastrophic mismanagement as Chavez appointed incompetent friends to run the oil companies who ran them into the ground. Anarcho-syndicalism is the way forward👍😎 Unfortunately it doesn’t scan. You need something shorter. Right now... ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 18:59:43 GMT
When did I say that? When did I say I was or wasn't? And for the final time, tell me what it is? After all the information you have kindly passed on to me I can categorically confirm it's a failure, no one uses it creates dangerous murderous despot regimes, Marx himself was a lazy bastard who never worked, hated Jews, shagged his housekeeper who he never paid a penny to in his life whilst he was married, disowned his own son, was a chain smoking alcoholic, wow that's some hero you have there son. You don't know what it is, and you don't know what I do or don't agree with. Honestly this is getting boring as hell. Either answer the question or learn about things before spouting rubbish online.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 19:04:38 GMT
"The backlash to Jeremy Corbyn’s sweeping nationalisation plans has begun, as two of the UK’s leading power companies said that they had shifted ownership of their British operations overseas." National Grid and SSE shift to overseas ownership link
|
|