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Post by numberounominion on Aug 22, 2019 20:51:43 GMT
That guy who scored the first goal last night cost £50k.......makes you think! I would think that the entire Preston team, cost less than Kevin Wimmer. But for injury, there strike force would have been Louis moult and Paul Gallagher. Players we pretty much gave away, in order to spent millions on berahino, Jesse, vokes, bojan, afobe blah blah
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 22, 2019 20:51:46 GMT
You can trace all of this back to that Liverpool semi final, first leg. I can ever remember where I was on that night (sat in a hotel bar in London).
I made a reet stroppy post after the game about how I could handle it if we got outplayed but not when the players didn't try, and that if we kept that standard up we'd end up relegated.
Hmmm...
I'd love to know what happened that night. Did someone high up at the club decide they just couldn't be arsed any more and the lethargy spread to the team? I don't get it.
But if you are to talk of 'watershed moments', that is a jumbo-sized turd-coloured whopper, that game.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 22, 2019 20:54:11 GMT
Not sure it was a watershed moment last night but it was a scarily bad performances from a bunch of "good characters" who seemed to have no idea of what they were doing.
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 22, 2019 21:03:24 GMT
You can trace all of this back to that Liverpool semi final, first leg. I can ever remember where I was on that night (sat in a hotel bar in London). I made a reet stroppy post after the game about how I could handle it if we got outplayed but not when the players didn't try, and that if we kept that standard up we'd end up relegated. Hmmm... I'd love to know what happened that night. Did someone high up at the club decide they just couldn't be arsed any more and the lethargy spread to the team? I don't get it. But if you are to talk of 'watershed moments', that is a jumbo-sized turd-coloured whopper, that game. I've even found my reet stroppy post. It all started here folks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 21:05:36 GMT
You can trace all of this back to that Liverpool semi final, first leg. I can ever remember where I was on that night (sat in a hotel bar in London). I made a reet stroppy post after the game about how I could handle it if we got outplayed but not when the players didn't try, and that if we kept that standard up we'd end up relegated. Hmmm... I'd love to know what happened that night. Did someone high up at the club decide they just couldn't be arsed any more and the lethargy spread to the team? I don't get it. But if you are to talk of 'watershed moments', that is a jumbo-sized turd-coloured whopper, that game. I've even found my reet stroppy post. It all started here folks. View AttachmentNo-one nipped it in the bud and it’s spread like gangrene and infestered everything in the club right down to pies
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 22, 2019 21:05:39 GMT
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Post by numberounominion on Aug 22, 2019 21:10:08 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment
Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for
Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way
But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc.
Not exactly a bunch of lightweights
And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc
The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before.
TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected
Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does
Because he ain't having it
And whose to say he's wrong?
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 22, 2019 21:16:09 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? No
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 22, 2019 21:18:40 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? The person writing the checks?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 21:22:22 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? The real problem I think there was perhaps the lack of any continuity . Hughes came in Scholes and Cartwright and there was nothing to keep the core or understand what had been successful in Pulis’ approach. We seem to have never resolved this. There has never seemed to be a real plan or a lot of thought. It’s all knock everything down a start again. There’s been no-one looking at what’s worked and what hasn’t. No-one able to look to the strengths we had and build on those and fix the bad. If that makes any sense. We could all see the heart of the team was ripped out and we were slowly bleeding to death in front our own eyes but no-one amongst the powers that be seemingly could. Last year they gave a manager who had never been promoted and never had a similar budget £50m. It was utterly bizarre.
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 21:27:45 GMT
Certainly think last night would have caused Coates to sharpen his axe, lube the strap-on up and get his rolerdex out.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 22, 2019 21:28:54 GMT
I genuinely think we're already in a 'how do we stay up' mode rather than 'how do we go up' mode. We need action from the owners and that action, unfortunately is 'the axe'. I've seen enough already to know that this squad is exactly the type to get a club relegated...shitloads of players, many overpaid, but glaring holes in key positions. Every decision we make now has to be geared towards avoiding relegation first and foremost. Managerial situation included. I must say I agree. Having been a Stoke fan for 50 odd years I honestly think you get a real sense when things are fucked up quite early on. The last relegation season was kind of obvious after about a dozen games. I remember being written off as alarmist on here then. But several of these players (including most of the ones brought in) have relegation written all over them. They look out of their depth individually and collectively, off the pace and they cant get to grips with what they supposed to be implementing which seems muddled. I will love to be proven wrong but when I see other teams in this division, they look much better equipped as things stand even though they are no great shakes. Yes, things can change in football but this is seriously worrying, last night was the worst since Leeds away I thought. Where was the fight for a start? I don't know why we need such a big squad of similar players tbh. So many players look absolutely lost in space.
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 22, 2019 21:31:05 GMT
Something that made me wonder seeing it on Twatter.
I saw someone say in response to the oatcake twitter accounts recent tweet, that going down into League 1 if it happened would do us good.
It'd absolutely destroy the club. We'd have tons of high earners, potentially still have bomb squad players who we can't get rid of. The financial impact will be dreadful. It'd require the biggest rebuild of the team in years. And you aren't going have anyone like Etebo plying his trade in that league.
Only this scenario I could see Scholes going. We would just have to completely eradicate the whole squad and start again, lots of contracts to pay off and cheap transfers to be done.
It's such a scary scenario. It should not get to that though. Hopefully!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 21:33:19 GMT
Something that made me wonder seeing it on Twatter. I saw someone say in response to the oatcake twitter accounts recent tweet, that going down into League 1 if it happened would do us good. It'd absolutely destroy the club. We'd have tons of high earners, potentially still have bomb squad players who we can't get rid of. The financial impact will be dreadful. It'd require the biggest rebuild of the team in years. And you aren't going have anyone like Etebo plying his trade in that league. Only this scenario I could see Scholes going. We would just have to completely eradicate the whole squad and start again, lots of contracts to pay off and cheap transfers to be done. It's such a scary scenario. It should not get to that though. Hopefully! It would destroy us. Which is why the first and foremost thing on everyone’s mind should be to avoid it. We can’t run the risk and we’ve done it before and look what happened. Do I trust them not to risk it again? No I fucking do not!
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 22, 2019 21:38:11 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? Absolute cack
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 22, 2019 21:42:55 GMT
The root cause stays the same. We have useless amateurs in the boardroom. The game's moved on. Boards have delegated power to experts in Technical Director roles, and then managers, then coaches and experts. Clubs in the PL and increasingly the Championship have brought in the best talent they can in these positions, with the best experience, from around Europe or wider. Scholes is fit to sell carpets, not players. Cartwright couldn't direct traffic.
Consequently, Hughes didn't trust the process put in place by those around him and wrestled power for player acquisition. The result was horrific, but the lack of confidence in what existed, from both Hughes and the Board (by allowing him to), showed the club's inadequacies. Lambert was apponted because he didn't threaten the hierarchy once they'd wanted to seize back control from the manager. O'Neill was simply too demanding. Rowett seemed safe enough from their perspective, but his ambitions and frustrations got the better of him and them. Jones was the overly grateful nice guy - surely he'd be malleable and not cause trouble. But he was never qualified for the 25th-30th biggest club in Britain. And here we are.
All of it stems from having a Board that are not up to pace with how to run a successful organisation, foremost. How to create a winning leadership team and culture. How to be confident in finding real experts in key roles at the top of the club and then giving trust and stepping back. Nathan - nice guy - was like appointing your local newsagent to run a branch of Smiths.
Going back about 5 years now, you'll find 90%+ of successful teams in the Champs have all benefitted from expertise from one of three key areas of knowledge: 1) Managers or TDs who have been coaches at the top clubs around or national set ups (e.g. Farke, Gil, Wagner, Benitez). 2) Managers who have learned what it takes to get promoted from the Champs (Bruce, Warnock). 3) Managers who have steadily built a team bottom up, from a lower league, over several years, so having the intimate knowledge of how their players and clubs work (Wilder, Howe). Jones is none of those.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 22, 2019 22:35:59 GMT
You can trace all of this back to that Liverpool semi final, first leg. I can ever remember where I was on that night (sat in a hotel bar in London). I made a reet stroppy post after the game about how I could handle it if we got outplayed but not when the players didn't try, and that if we kept that standard up we'd end up relegated. Hmmm... I'd love to know what happened that night. Did someone high up at the club decide they just couldn't be arsed any more and the lethargy spread to the team? I don't get it. But if you are to talk of 'watershed moments', that is a jumbo-sized turd-coloured whopper, that game. Strange how the side that was outplaying Citeh and The Shit, and scoring four at Everton suddenly fell apart a few weeks later. Around the same time as the cup semis against Liverpool we lost meekly to Palace in the FA Cup and then not long after that the regular 0-3 and 0-4 defeats began. It was really weird, like tripping a switch and I'm still not sure what happened to this day. I'd like to see our playing record from the penalty loss at Anfield (as that seems to be the 'tipping point' from Good Hughes to Bad Hughes) up to present day 😬
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Post by thevoid on Aug 22, 2019 22:40:16 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? I notice how you conveniently ignore the contributions of Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri towards three 9th place finishes. Bloody foreigners, taking Dean Whitehead's place from him 😠
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 22, 2019 22:45:31 GMT
You can trace all of this back to that Liverpool semi final, first leg. I can ever remember where I was on that night (sat in a hotel bar in London). I made a reet stroppy post after the game about how I could handle it if we got outplayed but not when the players didn't try, and that if we kept that standard up we'd end up relegated. Hmmm... I'd love to know what happened that night. Did someone high up at the club decide they just couldn't be arsed any more and the lethargy spread to the team? I don't get it. But if you are to talk of 'watershed moments', that is a jumbo-sized turd-coloured whopper, that game. Strange how the side that was outplaying Citeh and The Shit, and scoring four at Everton suddenly fell apart a few weeks later. Around the same time as the cup semis against Liverpool we lost meekly to Palace in the FA Cup and then not long after that the regular 0-3 and 0-4 defeats began. It was really weird, like tripping a switch and I'm still not sure what happened to this day. I'd like to see our playing record from the penalty loss at Anfield (as that seems to be the 'tipping point' from Good Hughes to Bad Hughes) up to present day 😬 The first signs were definitely the home leg. We were absolutely terrible in a way I'd not seen us for years. Initially I assumed it was that the club weren't interested in the League Cup...which didn't seem to wash given it was the semi final, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time. Then we lost the second leg after ostensibly playing quite well at Anfield, though the performance wasn't as good as some were insisting it was. Then the penalties. It's like we caught a disease on Jan 5th 2016 and we are still suffering from it.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 22, 2019 22:52:55 GMT
Strange how the side that was outplaying Citeh and The Shit, and scoring four at Everton suddenly fell apart a few weeks later. Around the same time as the cup semis against Liverpool we lost meekly to Palace in the FA Cup and then not long after that the regular 0-3 and 0-4 defeats began. It was really weird, like tripping a switch and I'm still not sure what happened to this day. I'd like to see our playing record from the penalty loss at Anfield (as that seems to be the 'tipping point' from Good Hughes to Bad Hughes) up to present day 😬 The first signs were definitely the home leg. We were absolutely terrible in a way I'd not seen us for years. Initially I assumed it was that the club weren't interested in the League Cup...which didn't seem to wash given it was the semi final, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time. Then we lost the second leg after ostensibly playing quite well at Anfield, though the performance wasn't as good as some were insisting it was. Then the penalties. It's like we caught a disease on Jan 5th 2016 and we are still suffering from it. It wasn't a case of not wanting to play in the League Cup (it was a semi and two games to Wembley), I think the occasion got to us. We looked overawed. But like you say, it's as if some virus was ingested that night which is still spreading. I just can't fathom it. Even the decline under Pulis after the Cup Final you could put down to Europa League commitments, but this post-Liverpool 'meltdown' is a mind boggler.
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Post by block22stokie on Aug 22, 2019 22:53:01 GMT
I can’t put into words last night, I was honestly speechless.
Last season, I did not expect us to go up, but I did not expect us to do as bad as we did. I have walked out of many away end over the past season and accepted it, but last night I didn’t know what to think.
People on social media bang on about stats, but they honestly mean jack shit to me as 9 times out of 10 we end up losing.
Last night was rock bottom for me as a fan, I didn’t even feel that bad when we got relegated.
I will still give Jones time, but I honestly see no light at the end of the tunnel after last night.
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 23:09:32 GMT
For me it was getting rid of characters like of whelan and Walters that started the decline, obviously they couldn’t stay at the club forever but Hughes should have looked to get younger but similar characters in the dressing room, players who take no shit from anyone and are willing to dish out a rollicking to fellow players if they’re not pulling their weight.
Shawcross, crouch and Allen don’t strike me as characters who would confront any trouble makers
Whelan even confronted Andoulaye Faye for turning up in flip flops! You need bastards like that in your dressing room.
Hughes slowly killed our dressing room culture and by that 4the season it had totally dissapeared, players were getting away with all kinds of stuff.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 22, 2019 23:37:46 GMT
I can’t put into words last night, I was honestly speechless. Last season, I did not expect us to go up, but I did not expect us to do as bad as we did. I have walked out of many away end over the past season and accepted it, but last night I didn’t know what to think. People on social media bang on about stats, but they honestly mean jack shit to me as 9 times out of 10 we end up losing. Last night was rock bottom for me as a fan, I didn’t even feel that bad when we got relegated. I will still give Jones time, but I honestly see no light at the end of the tunnel after last night. I agree with this. The fact is we were absolutely no where near to winning that game. A millions miles off beating a very ordinary Preston team. Preston will not have an easier game all season. It was quite shocking. We were completely soulless. There was a real feeling of 'where the hell are we going'....I felt like I was watching Preston v Sunderland from a couple of seasons ago.
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Post by StoKeith on Aug 22, 2019 23:54:11 GMT
I’m hoping this is Nathan’s “6-0 at Forest” moment.
After that game, we were bottom of League Division 1 and looked nailed on for relegation. 14 games, 7 wins, 4 draws and only 3 defeats later, we hung on to survive.
Obviously, I’m hoping this year’s version would leave us battling for promotion rather than just avoiding relegation!
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 23, 2019 0:00:12 GMT
Strange how the side that was outplaying Citeh and The Shit, and scoring four at Everton suddenly fell apart a few weeks later. Around the same time as the cup semis against Liverpool we lost meekly to Palace in the FA Cup and then not long after that the regular 0-3 and 0-4 defeats began. It was really weird, like tripping a switch and I'm still not sure what happened to this day. I'd like to see our playing record from the penalty loss at Anfield (as that seems to be the 'tipping point' from Good Hughes to Bad Hughes) up to present day 😬 The first signs were definitely the home leg. We were absolutely terrible in a way I'd not seen us for years. Initially I assumed it was that the club weren't interested in the League Cup...which didn't seem to wash given it was the semi final, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time. Then we lost the second leg after ostensibly playing quite well at Anfield, though the performance wasn't as good as some were insisting it was. Then the penalties. It's like we caught a disease on Jan 5th 2016 and we are still suffering from it. We won the second leg Edit- which itself is a monumental achievement for a Stoke team. The only one that’s managed a win at Anfield since the 50s. Only goes to serve your point really...
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Post by numberounominion on Aug 23, 2019 12:53:51 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? I notice how you conveniently ignore the contributions of Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri towards three 9th place finishes. Bloody foreigners, taking Dean Whitehead's place from him 😠 You can't have a team of shaquiris and Arnies Yes, if your backbone is delap whelan Walters nzonzi Huth tommy sorensen characters... And you just added an Arnie and a shaquiri to it, to put the cherry on the cake. Then yes, that could potentially be even better But if you let all the delaps Walters whelans Huths sorensens drift away and you don't replace them with similar, you are missing something and it won't work If you are going to get rid of a TP, then show some continuity and bring iin another hard nut ( eg Neil warnock big Sam ) , play a different kind of a hardball and try and do what big Sam did at Bolton... Bring in a jay jay okkacha and djorkiev ( spelling!) to put a gloss on things and be even better. But don't just give up on what got you, to where you are.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 23, 2019 12:55:31 GMT
I notice how you conveniently ignore the contributions of Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri towards three 9th place finishes. Bloody foreigners, taking Dean Whitehead's place from him 😠 You can't have a team of shaquiris and Arnies Yes, if your backbone is delap whelan Walters nzonzi Huth tommy sorensen characters... And you just added an Arnie and a shaquiri to it, to put the cherry on the cake. Then yes, that could potentially be even better But if you let all the delaps Walters whelans Huths sorensens drift away and you don't replace them with similar, you are missing something and it won't work If you are going to get rid of a TP, then show some continuity and bring iin another hard nut ( eg Neil warnock big Sam ) , play a different kind of a hardball and try and do what big Sam did at Bolton... Bring in a jay jay okkacha and djorkiev ( spelling!) to put a gloss on things and be even better. But don't just give up on what got you, to where you are. I never said you could, they'd be pretty useless in goal for starters.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 23, 2019 13:03:55 GMT
I think the sacking of Tony pulis was our watershed moment Truly a case of be careful, what you wish for Pulis had his faults, was struggling and had lost his way But he was trying to make a football team out of people like Rory delap, Johnny Walters, Tommy sorensen, Robert Huth, Glen whelan, Steven nzonzi etc. Not exactly a bunch of lightweights And much more plausible than trying to form a team out of people like berahino, Jesse, affelay,Kevin Wimmer, some Dutch lad I can't even remember his name etc The club would have been better trying to get in a more modern gerry Francis, Peter Reid type to help TP out, something that had been done before. TP had a big ego, but he was fine with people he respected Just don't tell him Scholes and carto, know more about what makes a pro footballer than he does Because he ain't having it And whose to say he's wrong? No way was sacking Pulis a watershed moment or a careful what you wish for moment. We were on the slippery slope for 18 months before he went and would have been relegated had he stayed in my opinion. For three years we had a great team under Hughes. Not sacking him at the end of the third season was the beginning of our slippery slope and our watershed moment. I am amazed at how many people rewrite history regarding Pulis and Hughes.
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 23, 2019 13:04:24 GMT
Strange how the side that was outplaying Citeh and The Shit, and scoring four at Everton suddenly fell apart a few weeks later. Around the same time as the cup semis against Liverpool we lost meekly to Palace in the FA Cup and then not long after that the regular 0-3 and 0-4 defeats began. It was really weird, like tripping a switch and I'm still not sure what happened to this day. I'd like to see our playing record from the penalty loss at Anfield (as that seems to be the 'tipping point' from Good Hughes to Bad Hughes) up to present day 😬 The first signs were definitely the home leg. We were absolutely terrible in a way I'd not seen us for years. Initially I assumed it was that the club weren't interested in the League Cup...which didn't seem to wash given it was the semi final, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time. Then we lost the second leg after ostensibly playing quite well at Anfield, though the performance wasn't as good as some were insisting it was. Then the penalties. It's like we caught a disease on Jan 5th 2016 and we are still suffering from it. Here are the results from that season - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Stoke_City_F.C._season ... and the year after en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_Stoke_City_F.C._seasonNot sure there was one moment - more a series of events. We always seemed to have a tendancy to win and lose in clumps of 3-4 games through a season. When we lost 3-4 we'd panic, then we'd pin it back. For me the rot sat in from Jan/Feb 2017. At no point that season did we scalp anyone but a mid or lower end club. But the second half was particularly bad. Notably, the 3 games we won of the last 13 were against relegated Hull and Boro and then on the final day, in a meaningless fixture, at Southampton. The interpretation here is that we were no longer capable of getting wins against "better" teams. We'd aspired to be "technically" better and more tactically expansive, but were now trying to play wealthier clubs at their own game, and repeatedly losing - only beating those 8 or so clubs with similar or lower quality. Before, we'd managed to beat anyone, at home, on our day, because we'd not been playing them at "their" game. (They always say, do what your enemy would like least. Well, we stopped doing that.) The last times we did beat such teams from memory were in Dec 2015 - against Man U - and then the Jan cup match at Anfield. its a guess as to why that moment was seen as pivotal, but perhaps those results persuaded the club to accelerate their move away from their "DNA"/past formulas? The signing of Imbula on 1 feb certainly accelerated our trajectory in this regard!
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