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Post by werrington on Aug 22, 2019 7:18:46 GMT
I think last night may well of been that moment
For me it was Birmingham away last season, West Ham at home the season before, Leicester at home ( 2-0 up at ht 2015 ....moments when you just sit back and think it’s gone and it’s going to take a lot to turn it around
Shocked by it
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 22, 2019 7:21:03 GMT
I just hope last night was the rock bottom moment mate
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Post by Bagwash on Aug 22, 2019 7:22:21 GMT
Just the small case of Leeds at home coming up....
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Post by bigcashprizes on Aug 22, 2019 7:23:08 GMT
I just hope last night was the rock bottom moment mate I’m not so sure it is though, which is frightening. Fuck knows where we go from here
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 22, 2019 7:23:43 GMT
I genuinely think we're already in a 'how do we stay up' mode rather than 'how do we go up' mode.
We need action from the owners and that action, unfortunately is 'the axe'.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 22, 2019 7:24:19 GMT
I think last night may well of been that moment It was Birmingham away last season, West Ham at home the season before, Leicester at home ( 2-0 up at ht 2015 ....moments when you just sit back and think it’s gone and it’s going to take a lot to turn it around Shocked by it It was that Preston player laughing when he scored that did it for me. We looked like Sunderland in that documentary, where defeat and humiliation are just around the corner.
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Post by Davef on Aug 22, 2019 7:25:30 GMT
I genuinely think we're already in a 'how do we stay up' mode rather than 'how do we go up' mode. We need action from the owners and that action, unfortunately is 'the axe'. A good start would be for everyone at the club to pack in the deluded talk about play offs and promotion, get their heads from up their backsides and start doing the job they're paid to do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:26:33 GMT
I just hope last night was the rock bottom moment mate I’m not so sure it is though, which is frightening. Fuck knows where we go from here Same...I really hope not but I feel like it’s still going to get worse before it gets better. I feel like it could turn really ugly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:28:08 GMT
Maybe, but we looked a completely different team against Derby. We can still turn this around, but NJ needs to make a few big calls like dropping Butland, ditching the diamond, and playing Collins and Etebo from the start. Is he capable of admitting he is wrong and trying something else? based on his time here so far you could assume he isn't capable, but I think he'll be given time.
I'm still behind NJ, I hope he can see sense though before it's too late.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 22, 2019 7:28:59 GMT
I just hope last night was the rock bottom moment mate Me too although can’t help thinking this is what Sunderland fans kept saying a couple of seasons back....
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 22, 2019 7:30:33 GMT
I genuinely think we're already in a 'how do we stay up' mode rather than 'how do we go up' mode. We need action from the owners and that action, unfortunately is 'the axe'. I've seen enough already to know that this squad is exactly the type to get a club relegated...shitloads of players, many overpaid, but glaring holes in key positions. Every decision we make now has to be geared towards avoiding relegation first and foremost. Managerial situation included.
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Post by bojanwonder on Aug 22, 2019 7:34:13 GMT
Maybe, but we looked a completely different team against Derby. We can still turn this around, but NJ needs to make a few big calls like dropping Butland, ditching the diamond, and playing Collins and Etebo from the start. Is he capable of admitting he is wrong and trying something else? based on his time here so far you could assume he isn't capable, but I think he'll be given time. I'm still behind NJ, I hope he can see sense though before it's too late. I really want to support Jones despite everything we've seen so far, because I still believe in him, but if he continues to play Allen then I'm done!
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 7:37:15 GMT
That guy who scored the first goal last night cost £50k.......makes you think!
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Post by leicspotter on Aug 22, 2019 8:11:44 GMT
I don't know the answer, but sure as hell giving away early goals isn't helping. No manager can legislate for the type of schoolboy (insulting to schoolboys) errors that we are making
This isn't about shape, formation etc it's about professional players switching off
Maybe it's time to give a few of them a rest: Butland and Allen for starters (ie non-starters for a couple of weeks) and let the younger players have a go
Jack looked 'haunted'last night, and the extra long hug from Rudd told us more that anything I reckon. Send him on holiday for a fortnight, somewhere quiet, away from football (on TV too) and let him get his head straight
Allen works his socks off, but to no discernible benefit to the team, again, send him shooting in Scotland or summat
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 22, 2019 8:23:54 GMT
I don't know the answer, but sure as hell giving away early goals isn't helping. No manager can legislate for the type of schoolboy (insulting to schoolboys) errors that we are making This isn't about shape, formation etc it's about professional players switching off Maybe it's time to give a few of them a rest: Butland and Allen for starters (ie non-starters for a couple of weeks) and let the younger players have a go Jack looked 'haunted'last night, and the extra long hug from Rudd told us more that anything I reckon. Send him on holiday for a fortnight, somewhere quiet, away from football (on TV too) and let him get his head straight Allen works his socks off, but to no discernible benefit to the team, again, send him shooting in Scotland or summat No, don't send Allen shooting in Scotland FFS he'd end up slaughtering a couple of villages.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 22, 2019 8:24:56 GMT
Hopefully it's a watershed moment for Jones. Perhaps he will start to question his loyalty to certain players who, whatever they do and say in training have let him down in matches. Perhaps as last season he will drop the diamond and go more defensive. Pity cos I was looking forward to some exciting football but while our strikers can't score goals from some of the highest number of chances created in the Championship then it's time to shut up shop and pick up points.
The chilling comment from somebody the other day was that this situation of not scoring despite creating loads of chances echoes so much the start of our relegation season. Then too, people were saying once we start converting the chances we create we'll thrash teams.
Do what Pulis would do and make sure teams can't score then start being more offensive. Also from Pulis's coaching manual start using the seige mentality - use all the insults teams, players, pundits and the media throw at us as motivation rather than complaining about it.
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Post by werrington on Aug 22, 2019 8:26:59 GMT
I’m not sure why one match just “ tips the scales “ as in reality last night was no different to what’s gone before it
I was livid after Charlton, yeah we played well but conceded 3, give it a chance I said to myself, Wigan away we were excellent as we were v Derby but again we conceded 2 goals
Last night was the moment it all came crashing down again, no pace, no movement, no guile and calamitous defending
We’ve been here before haven’t we
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 22, 2019 8:31:14 GMT
I think last night may well of been that moment It was Birmingham away last season, West Ham at home the season before, Leicester at home ( 2-0 up at ht 2015 ....moments when you just sit back and think it’s gone and it’s going to take a lot to turn it around Shocked by it It was that Preston player laughing when he scored that did it for me. We looked like Sunderland in that documentary, where defeat and humiliation are just around the corner. People used to hate and fear Stoke, mate. Now they just laugh at us.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 8:36:02 GMT
I’m not sure why one match just “ tips the scales “ as in reality last night was no different to what’s gone before it I was livid after Charlton, yeah we played well but conceded 3, give it a chance I said to myself, Wigan away we were excellent as we were v Derby but again we conceded 2 goals Last night was the moment it all came crashing down again, no pace, no movement, no guile and calamitous defending We’ve been here before haven’t we Where are you with it all, Wez? Sack him, keep him?
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Post by mcw on Aug 22, 2019 8:39:03 GMT
Yes we have and the current omens are not good. What seriously baffles me is the continual banging on about promotion, does anyone above manager level just believe the narrative from the press? It took nigh on 5 years to get rid of the long ball, clogging perception that people has of us (Cocu even referenced us as a long ball team!!). Now it appears everybody outside of us as a group of fans seems to think we will be up in the promotion spots. Last night it was all "Preston love it when the big boys come to town etc", we finished below them after a full season last year and our form is atrocious. Do they (the team) believe this hype and think they should be up there challenging at the top? It is ridiculous to be honest and all the soundbites and attitude coming out of the club are totally misguided and frankly embarrassing. To the question what is the aim this season- the answer should not have been top 6 (Coates), promotion (Jones), it should have been we are in the process of rebuilding the team ethos, spirit and environment after a tough three years. Our aim is to be a competitive and exciting championship side as the season develops and let's see where that takes us. Too many people (fans included) think we have a god given right to get promoted. We don't and the narrative from the club is not helping and is actually putting additional pressure on the players (as the reality on the pitch does not match the off field comments leading to fan disquiet).
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Post by werrington on Aug 22, 2019 8:43:16 GMT
I’m not sure why one match just “ tips the scales “ as in reality last night was no different to what’s gone before it I was livid after Charlton, yeah we played well but conceded 3, give it a chance I said to myself, Wigan away we were excellent as we were v Derby but again we conceded 2 goals Last night was the moment it all came crashing down again, no pace, no movement, no guile and calamitous defending We’ve been here before haven’t we Where are you with it all, Wez? Sack him, keep him? I was for sacking him after Charlton mate but I calmed down He sounds and looks desolate and it looks like the internal stuff is still there ...last night was surely his watershed also as if it wasn’t he’s in trouble Me after listening to him and reading what he’s said I’m 70/30 in his favour Saturday will be defining, big crowd, big team, crowd behind the team so let’s hope he makes the big decisions as if not the crowd will be edgy from the off
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 22, 2019 8:53:17 GMT
It's going to be difficult to instil any confidence in the team after last night's performance.
A draw against Leeds is the most I'm hoping for.
A draw against Birmingham away.
Just consolidate things for the next few games.
Because if we do get rid of Jones, who next?
Which decent manager would want to come here given our expectations?
It's a risk to keep him but it's a probably a bigger risk to get rid.
At the moment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 9:42:59 GMT
Where are you with it all, Wez? Sack him, keep him? I was for sacking him after Charlton mate but I calmed down He sounds and looks desolate and it looks like the internal stuff is still there ...last night was surely his watershed also as if it wasn’t he’s in trouble Me after listening to him and reading what he’s said I’m 70/30 in his favour Saturday will be defining, big crowd, big team, crowd behind the team so let’s hope he makes the big decisions as if not the crowd will be edgy from the off He's got to work mate. It's got to work out. If it doesn't we're in Lambert MK2 territory and I have no faith in these owners to pretty much break the habit of a lifetime and appoint a good manager, because bar the odd lucky appointment, they have been pretty much dreadful to a man. Make no mistake, get this next one wrong and we are down with the dead men for a long, long time.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 9:46:48 GMT
That guy who scored the first goal last night cost £50k.......makes you think! Not really I understand your point BUT it should never have been a goal our £30million England keeper gave it him.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 22, 2019 10:06:20 GMT
I don't know the answer, but sure as hell giving away early goals isn't helping. No manager can legislate for the type of schoolboy (insulting to schoolboys) errors that we are making This isn't about shape, formation etc it's about professional players switching off Maybe it's time to give a few of them a rest: Butland and Allen for starters (ie non-starters for a couple of weeks) and let the younger players have a go Jack looked 'haunted'last night, and the extra long hug from Rudd told us more that anything I reckon. Send him on holiday for a fortnight, somewhere quiet, away from football (on TV too) and let him get his head straight Allen works his socks off, but to no discernible benefit to the team, again, send him shooting in Scotland or summat No, don't send Allen shooting in Scotland FFS he'd end up slaughtering a couple of villages. Send him to Stenhousemuir!
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 22, 2019 10:10:11 GMT
I’m not sure why one match just “ tips the scales “ as in reality last night was no different to what’s gone before it I was livid after Charlton, yeah we played well but conceded 3, give it a chance I said to myself, Wigan away we were excellent as we were v Derby but again we conceded 2 goals Last night was the moment it all came crashing down again, no pace, no movement, no guile and calamitous defending We’ve been here before haven’t we Agree with all of the above apart from Wigan Yes excellent but has to be taken out of the equation ? Two second strings basically. However no win is a bad win and is meant to breed confidence
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 22, 2019 10:12:09 GMT
I’m not sure why one match just “ tips the scales “ as in reality last night was no different to what’s gone before it I was livid after Charlton, yeah we played well but conceded 3, give it a chance I said to myself, Wigan away we were excellent as we were v Derby but again we conceded 2 goals Last night was the moment it all came crashing down again, no pace, no movement, no guile and calamitous defending We’ve been here before haven’t we This tips the scales because v Derby we showed signs of improvement. And it was an enjoyable game. PNE was just dross. It was actually insulting. As bad as anything in the last four years.
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Post by rawli on Aug 22, 2019 10:12:23 GMT
The manager needs to be pragmatic. As soon as he didn't get his preferred full back signings he should have consigned the diamond to the back burner. He's kidded himself he can coach existing players to perform that role. At this level I don't think you can.
Has to go 3 at the back and drop the undroppables. Otherwise he's fucked.
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Post by robstokie on Aug 22, 2019 10:14:53 GMT
I just hope last night was the rock bottom moment mate Would hope so, but it's been 3 years of constant decline, failure and misery. Doesn't help when we have a manager that insists on a system that doesn't suit the players that he has bought in, especially considering we spunked a ton of wages and fee for Vokes and Batth who are so obviously not suited to the diamond. The fact he bought them in whilst having a clear plan to play that system makes it even worse, as is the shoe-horning of square pegs in round holes. People always used to moan about TP doing that, but NJ playing 3 natural wingers in a winger less system takes the biscuit.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 22, 2019 10:21:36 GMT
Last night reminded me of watching the Swansea away game last season. The clear realisation that we are not even up to performing as a bog standard Championship side. It’s horrible.
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