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Post by retrostoke on Aug 11, 2019 9:15:34 GMT
There for all to see yesterday. Patience..... it’s going to get exciting
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 11, 2019 9:18:08 GMT
I posted this on another thread, but is relevant here as well.
There were some generally encouraging signs of improvement in the team today. We could get better quickly, but the interesting question is whether any possible success will come from hard work, or perhaps some brilliant or even lucky tactical change that alters the whole dynamic of the side.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 11, 2019 9:18:11 GMT
But we don't want to be cemented in the bottom half of the table when excitement materialises.
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Post by StokeTudoGuy on Aug 11, 2019 9:18:21 GMT
There for all to see yesterday. Patience..... it’s going to get exciting Thank you, that’s my feeling too. I think we are a bit of team familiarity, a little bit of confidence and switching a couple players out from smashing a team by a decent amount. |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Aug 11, 2019 9:20:02 GMT
I wouldn’t go that far, but there were definitely positive signs in terms of attitude and work rate. Gregory and a few others hinted at possessing a little of the old Stoke attitude...
That would go a long way in calming the natives.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 11, 2019 9:24:35 GMT
I think from where we stand we just need some sort of "presence" added in midfield to provide a focus. Not the headless chicken approach of Allen but someone who can exercise some authority and imagination. Whether we have that player is another question, but I think the return of Etebo or even N'Diaye will be a significant game changer.
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Post by louis11 on Aug 11, 2019 9:24:37 GMT
We'll show green shoots when e arrive in League 1 - he's playing football manager and playing it badly
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 11, 2019 9:29:38 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20.
But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May.
As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above.
That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance.
I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2019 9:35:58 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20. But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May. As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above. That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably was in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance. I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season And also the excuse of a new team and players keeps being used. Charlton are in the same boat. And QPR were. Didn’t affect them. |
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Post by royalewithcheese on Aug 11, 2019 9:36:46 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20. But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May. As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above. That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably was in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance. I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season We couldn't have wished for 2 better opening games Grapey. The manager has banged on about how meticulous his pre season regime is. How it is planned down to the smallest detail to ensure the players are raring to go come the first game. He's admitted every signing has been his. This is his team. He had a few months last season to analyse and assess. Hes said nothing but promotion will do. Things couldn't have gone any worse. I dont see a miraculous turnaround in fortunes. He needs to ditch the diamond for a start, but you just know he won't. It's a sorry state of affairs. |
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Post by cooper67 on Aug 11, 2019 9:43:29 GMT
I just fear we are in for another long hard season. With few highlights and a slog to finish any higher than 11th.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 11, 2019 9:45:54 GMT
We've played two of the weaker sides in the division and have conceded the joint most goals in the division.
Everything about our start has been fucking horrendous.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 9:47:26 GMT
I just fear we are in for another long hard season. With few highlights and a slog to finish any higher than 11th. We are in relegation form. We can’t defend we can’t score. 11th is looking like cloud cuckoo land. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 11, 2019 9:50:37 GMT
I think from where we stand we just need some sort of "presence" added in midfield to provide a focus. Not the headless chicken approach of Allen but someone who can exercise some authority and imagination. Whether we have that player is another question, but I think the return of Etebo or even N'Diaye will be a significant game changer. I forgot about N'Diaye, I'm still not convinced he'll be around tbh, but if he does stay and actually looks like he wants to play I think we could have a great midfield. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 11, 2019 9:52:07 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20. But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May. As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above. That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably was in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance. I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season We couldn't have wished for 2 better opening games Grapey. The manager has banged on about how meticulous his pre season regime is. How it is planned down to the smallest detail to ensure the players are raring to go come the first game. He's admitted every signing has been his. This is his team. He had a few months last season to analyse and assess. Hes said nothing but promotion will do. Things couldn't have gone any worse. I dont see a miraculous turnaround in fortunes. He needs to ditch the diamond for a start, but you just know he won't. It's a sorry state of affairs. The diamond wasn't the problem yesterday, thinking Allen can play DM was our downfall. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 9:53:44 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20. But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May. As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above. That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance. I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season Surely the difference yesterday was for the first time in a hell of a long time we created clear cut chances for our strikers in the box? Even in those good performances last season we didn't create that many chances for our strikers. We weren't walking away thinking "how on earth did he miss that chance?". Yesterday there were three chances like that. One each for the forwards and one for Tommy Smith right on half time, who fluffed a chance from 7 yards out. That's the full back! If we continue to create that level and quality of clear cut chances, and tighten up at the back we will win more than we lose. Defensively we were a bit loose. Some might say it's the diamond, but that back four was a new back four and something the manager needs to hammer down quickly. It will also help if Butland gets his head straight. The start to the match yesterday was the quickest I've ever seen. I've never seen a player run with the ball from the kick off like Ince did. Straight through the centre of the pitch. |
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 11, 2019 9:55:50 GMT
I agree there are positives...
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 11, 2019 9:58:44 GMT
Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20. But I don't think you can dismiss the fact we were playing against a team that were in L1 last season, and are one of the most underfunded Championship teams of all-time that have been allowed to wither on the vine by their chairman - and who'll be in the bottom 5 or 6 in May. As one of the best funded teams in the league, we would have been expected to win the game and look to be a level above. That a 3-1 loss against a club in crisis, with the funds of Kidsgrove Athletic, was probably in the top 5 or 6 performances of the calendar year almost certainly says more about our year than yesterday's performance. I thought the Radio Stoke commentary went miles over the top about how good we were. I was more enthused by, for example, Villa under Rowett, Blackburn in April - or the home games against Sheff Utd and Norwich at the end of last season Very eruditely put grapey, I am unsure what posters actually mean by we are improving, is it improving from last week? If so it really couldn't have been much worse against QPR although some still found reasons to be optimistic. But the important question is it improvement on performances against Norwich and Sheff U last season because that really should be the measure. People are conveniently saying last season is irrelevant but it's not. People said give him a full pre-season to work his tactical magic and bring in his players. Well he's done that and yesterday against hugely weaker opposition than Norwich or Sheff U the performance was significantly worse than the back end of last season. He is still unsure of his best xi and he continues to make incredibly naive substitutions. Super tough 3 games coming up which I think we tell us whether this season, even at this early stage, we can compete with the best in this league. |
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Post by boothenesque on Aug 11, 2019 9:59:10 GMT
I was really wanting him to achieve, his philosophy, his enthusiasm, refreshing, ambitious, radical but when he took Woods off when we were dominating I then started to wonder. They say that there is a thin line between genius and insanity. When he did that I felt that I shifted from the former to the latter. It's not the first time. In the past it was explained by using last season to assess all the players, genuine mistakes through lack of familiarity with the players. Now I am really starting to wonder. Taking Woods off yesterday was clearly insane.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 11, 2019 10:03:08 GMT
Weren't we saying the same thing last season when Jones first arrived, and we beat Leeds???
I was at work yesterday, so I couldn't watch nor listen to the game, I'm only going off what I read!!!
But if.... "IF" we were as good as many say, and LOST, for me, that's more worrying than playing shit and losing, at least we'd have had an excuse for losing!!!
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Post by jebbstuart on Aug 11, 2019 10:05:22 GMT
'Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20.'
an improvement from a very low base. Really we would have won 19 out of 20! I think not, we played well in patch's not consistent pressure, had 3 shots on target in 90 minutes. substitutions were poor, you are chasing a game take off a forward and bring on a young midfielder who barely touched the ball, with campbell up on his own a player with pace and can finish not a great playmaker or holder of the ball. Defence was poor especially on the ground like turning oil tankers. Batth yesterday was poor no passing ability at all and no foot movement on the ground looked like a statue.
Over to NJ got a week to adjust our system the cup game is an opportunity to test it although thought that what pre season was for!!!
Not great but lets see how we adapt
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Post by Biblical on Aug 11, 2019 10:13:56 GMT
If Gregory puts away that glorious chance and makes it 2-1 then Jones doesn’t roll the dice by taking Woods off and we’d have probably gone on to win comfortably. Those are the fine margins in football.
I’m pleased that we were at least creating chances and that the diamond looked far better than against QPR.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2019 10:15:31 GMT
If Gregory puts away that glorious chance and makes it 2-1 then Jones doesn’t roll the dice by taking Woods off and we’d have probably gone on to win comfortably. Those are the fine margins in football. I’m pleased that we were at least creating chances and that the diamond looked far better than against QPR. Gregory is a low end Championship striker. He’s going to miss chances. That’s not bad luck. |
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 11, 2019 10:16:06 GMT
A new team takes time to gel and it's wait and see for us now. Sacking him now - with his team - would be plain silly.
That said, I didn't see yesterday as many did. I thought we had the better of the first half and played really well at times, but as the managers made their respective adaptions through the game, Charlton got better. They had less of the ball, but after Gregory's chance that was it from us. Williams started picking up space. In critical moments, they kept their heads and we lost our's. Hogan swinging at a shot, defense falling out of shape for their second two goals. It was not far off 50;50 by the end where the combination of our subs and their improved tactics ceded any first half domination we'd had. If we'd been Charlton yesterday we'd have felt it was a good performance where we gave us too much respect but came more into the game and deserved to win by the end. Mistakes are not the same as bad luck. Missed chances are not bad luck - either you don't have the right strikers or we haven;t prepared them.
Tne most measured approach with NJ I can think of it to say - overall - if he finsihes 10th-12th having arrested a 3 season decline and got a team which we can see growing and evolving, then that's par this year.
We need runway lights to see we are on track:
So the threshold for avoiding the chop for me is:- 1 win in first 5, 12pts by 10g, 27pts by 20g, 43pts by 30, 59pts by 40g and 69pts by 46. 65goals (=10th-12th)
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 11, 2019 10:16:12 GMT
There for all to see yesterday. Patience..... it’s going to get exciting I’m with you Mrs Jones 😎 |
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Post by camstoke10 on Aug 11, 2019 10:23:06 GMT
'Massive improvement on QPR, obviously. And we would have won it 19 times out of 20.' an improvement from a very low base. Really we would have won 19 out of 20! I think not, we played well in patch's not consistent pressure, had 3 shots on target in 90 minutes. substitutions were poor, you are chasing a game take off a forward and bring on a young midfielder who barely touched the ball, with campbell up on his own a player with pace and can finish not a great playmaker or holder of the ball. Defence was poor especially on the ground like turning oil tankers. Batth yesterday was poor no passing ability at all and no foot movement on the ground looked like a statue. Over to NJ got a week to adjust our system the cup game is an opportunity to test it although thought that what pre season was for!!! Not great but lets see how we adapt yep 3 shots on target but missed a sitter, and hit the post and bar, them 3 shots on target are not a true reflection of the game |
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 11, 2019 10:26:31 GMT
The green shoots against a team who came up from League one and are also in transition themselves.
Anyone would think that we are the only team with new signings.
Charlton lost two of their better players Aribo and Bauer .
We can't keep making excuses , all 24 teams are full of new signings in the main
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 11, 2019 10:29:08 GMT
There for all to see yesterday. Patience..... it’s going to get exciting Relegation battles usually are, just not in a good way. |
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Post by amathus on Aug 11, 2019 10:29:40 GMT
We will get there. It’s going to click.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 11, 2019 10:38:48 GMT
If Gregory puts away that glorious chance and makes it 2-1 then Jones doesn’t roll the dice by taking Woods off and we’d have probably gone on to win comfortably. Those are the fine margins in football. I’m pleased that we were at least creating chances and that the diamond looked far better than against QPR. Gregory is a low end Championship striker. He’s going to miss chances. That’s not bad luck. This is the point isn’t it - if you sign experienced players who have a track record of doing certain things they are likely to carry on doing them - i.e not scoring many goals. |
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