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Post by Goonie on Sept 15, 2019 6:30:18 GMT
Despite the damning facts I thought the support from the crowd was fabulous yesterday - you'd of thought we were top of the league!
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Post by toppercorner on Sept 15, 2019 6:55:22 GMT
I’m revising my 52 point August forecast down in a range of 5-10 now I think we all know what that means . No change in manager will amend that as the process has delivered a playing squad totally unfit for purpose . Only the removal of the chief executive and the arrival in the boardroom of proper football insight will change that The Chief Executive doesn't let the ball slip through his hands. He doesn't miss penalties. He does let the ball bounce instead of heading it clear. He doesn't allow a player to cross a ball into our box unchallenged. He doesn't miss open goals or get himself sent off because he can't control a football. He let £100m slip through the clubs accounts by not taking action soon enough.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 15, 2019 7:02:20 GMT
Given we are owned by bookies, surely they should see this and at the very least play the odds to avoid this? If they looking at the odds, they would have looked at which managers/DOFs are getting teams up and would have recognised that they come with three sorts of experience. 1) An intimate understanding of their own players and what makes them tick, from having got them promoted from L1: Howe and Wilder 2) An intimate knowledge of what it takes to get a team promoted before from this league: Hughton, Warnock, Bruce. Jokanavic, Dyke 3) A good knowledge of elite performance gained from having a senior footballing position in a top/wealthy/successful club or international set up: Farke/Webber, Wagner, Gil (Villa DOF), Espirito Santo, Benitez, Karanka. In the last 5 seasons, the one exception has been Alex Neil at Norwich (15/16). They would have then examined the odds of plucking a L1 manager - with no experience in the Championship or of a league of similar or better standard - and doing well in the Champs. Recent examples of where boards have done this are relatively rarer than you might expect: I might have missed a couple, but these are the ones i found since about 2012. - Paul Hurst at Ipswich (17/18) got them relegated.
- Paul Trollope at Cardiff in May 2016 who was sacked after winning 2 in 12 at Cardiff.
- Lee Johnson is the best success story, taking over relegation threatened Bristol City from Barnsley in Feb 2016 and overseeing an admirable evolution ever since.
- Warren Joyce took over Wigan in Nov 16 after coaching in Belgium and was sacked after winning 6 in 24.
- Dean Smith got the Brentford job in Nov 15 after being at Walsall and did what was seen as a good job there to build a mid table team - though, at a similar time as they appointed a sports science company owner, Phil Giles and bought about 10 new players, so questionable who drove this success!?.
- Gary Caldwell took over Wigan in 2015 with no past experience, when they were 23rd in April and took them down.
- Kit Symons took over ambitious Fulham on the back of caretaker roles at Palace and Colchester (and 9 games at Fulham), and was sacked 13mths later having won 22 and lost 25, with Fulham 12th.
- David Hockaday took over Leeds in June 2014 on the back of success at Forest Green and was sacked after 6 games.
- Russel Slade did okay with Cardiff after taking over in 2014 - getting them to 2 mid table finishes after taking over from L2 Orient, but which wasn't deemed good enough.
- Neil Redfearn took over Leeds after being Academy Head, and was sacked after 11 wins and 15 defeats in 33 with the owner calling him "weak" and a "baby" over handling of the squad.
- Paul Dickov took over newly prompted Doncaster, having managed Oldham in L1. They survived for a year with the promotion team and were then relegated and he was sacked.
- Lee Clarke took over Birmingham in 2012 after managing L1 Huddersfield and getting them into the PO finals twice - He did okayish for a year and then sacked with Birmingham 21st. He had another stab at Blackpool in the Champs, where he achieved a 9% win ratio in 33 games and was sacked again (Sound familiar?).
Not all abject failures, but failure is rarer than success, and there is barely a sniff of promotion in all this - So, if you were the board of a Champs side aspiring for promotion, what would you conclude about the odds for Jones succeeding with promotion? After paying out 4 million in wages and compensation to rowett, NJ was picked on the fact he was far cheaper than moyes, fat sam. Again scrimping will get you absolute nowhere. Buy cheap you buy twice.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 15, 2019 7:05:06 GMT
If people don't realise by now that we are well in the shit, then you really need to pull your heads out of the sand. The stats don't lie, his record is appalling. Sorry mate but your time is up very soon. I can't quite get my head around how they think he's....all of a sudden, going to click,and that by some chance, we're just going to start propelling ourselves up the league??? I'm really struggling with it!!! It seems that the people "who are behind him", will just be happy to get "that one win" under their belts (even if it means going on another winless run after), just so they can say "he needs more time"!!! Personally, when things are going as disastrous as they have been under Jones, I couldn't be arsed if we get labelled as an hiring and firing club, so long as it gets us out of this mess..... The mess JONES has got us in!!! Saying all that, I'd still be glad if he did somehow turn things around (can't somehow see it), we all would.....but that wouldn't make us wrong in thinking the way we do now, his stats speak for them self.....very worryingly!!!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 15, 2019 8:07:11 GMT
Week by week he's making Rowett look like a master of management.
That really is some going.
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Post by liam007 on Sept 15, 2019 8:09:11 GMT
As soon as i see the title thread,3 wins from 28 i start thinking of 1984/85.Please don't let it happen to us again.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 15, 2019 8:14:22 GMT
I’m revising my 52 point August forecast down in a range of 5-10 now I think we all know what that means . No change in manager will amend that as the process has delivered a playing squad totally unfit for purpose . Only the removal of the chief executive and the arrival in the boardroom of proper football insight will change that The Chief Executive doesn't let the ball slip through his hands. He doesn't miss penalties. He does let the ball bounce instead of heading it clear. He doesn't allow a player to cross a ball into our box unchallenged. He doesn't miss open goals or get himself sent off because he can't control a football. No he doesn't but he was part of the process that appointed a manager who coaches players that repeatedly make the same mistakes game after game after game. That's 3 terrible appointments in a row. Jones has clearly lost the players and has to go today.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:15:50 GMT
The Chief Executive doesn't let the ball slip through his hands. He doesn't miss penalties. He does let the ball bounce instead of heading it clear. He doesn't allow a player to cross a ball into our box unchallenged. He doesn't miss open goals or get himself sent off because he can't control a football. No he doesn't but he was part of the process that appointed a manager who coaches players that repeatedly make the same mistakes game after game after game. That's 3 terrible appointments in a row. Jones has clearly lost the players and has to go today. Clearly lost the players? 🤣
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 15, 2019 8:16:51 GMT
No he doesn't but he was part of the process that appointed a manager who coaches players that repeatedly make the same mistakes game after game after game. That's 3 terrible appointments in a row. Jones has clearly lost the players and has to go today. Clearly lost the players? 🤣 Evidence right in front of your eyes.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:17:33 GMT
The Chief Executive doesn't let the ball slip through his hands. He doesn't miss penalties. He does let the ball bounce instead of heading it clear. He doesn't allow a player to cross a ball into our box unchallenged. He doesn't miss open goals or get himself sent off because he can't control a football. No he doesn't but he was part of the process that appointed a manager who coaches players that repeatedly make the same mistakes game after game after game. That's 3 terrible appointments in a row. Jones has clearly lost the players and has to go today. Dont worry, we'll fix it with 2 banks of four & a baseball cap. Enjoy.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 15, 2019 8:17:35 GMT
The players are still playing for him - we saw that yesterday
But sadly he hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 15, 2019 8:21:01 GMT
The players are still playing for him - we saw that yesterday But sadly he hasn't got a clue what he's doing. Sorry, I don't see it. How can the players have any confidence in a manager that keeps making wrong decisions on selection, tactics, substitutions etc? They keep making the same basic mistake game after game and look a disorganised rabble. They are clearly not listening to him. The job is too big for him.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:21:16 GMT
Clearly lost the players? 🤣 Evidence right in front of your eyes. Managers who have lost the players don't have their players putting in the type of effort that they clearly did yesterday. For all everyone blames allen too ( pissed off about it myself) the guy was getting stuck in, perhaps a bit too eager if anything. These players are right behind this manager make no mistake about it. Its rotten stinking luck atm.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 15, 2019 8:22:16 GMT
Evidence right in front of your eyes. Managers who have lost the players don't have their players putting in the type of effort that they clearly did yesterday. For all everyone blames allen too ( pissed off about it myself) the guy was getting stuck in, perhaps a bit too eager if anything. These players are right behind this manager make no mistake about it. Its rotten stinking luck atm. Luck? OK.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:24:53 GMT
Managers who have lost the players don't have their players putting in the type of effort that they clearly did yesterday. For all everyone blames allen too ( pissed off about it myself) the guy was getting stuck in, perhaps a bit too eager if anything. These players are right behind this manager make no mistake about it. Its rotten stinking luck atm. Luck? OK. Of course it is it's ridiculous, that luck can not continue. Be careful what you wish for because changing the manager could have an adverse effect on player motivation. They are clearly playing for this manager (including n'diaye) it's only a matter of time before our fortune changes. When our fortune does change this group will come out stronger as a group including the manager
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 15, 2019 8:27:43 GMT
Of course it is it's ridiculous, that luck can not continue. Be careful what you wish for because changing the manager could have an adverse effect on player motivation. They are clearly playing for this manager (including n'diaye) it's only a matter of time before our fortune changes. Blind faith to keep us up then? OK.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:30:02 GMT
Of course it is it's ridiculous, that luck can not continue. Be careful what you wish for because changing the manager could have an adverse effect on player motivation. They are clearly playing for this manager (including n'diaye) it's only a matter of time before our fortune changes. Blind faith to keep us up then? OK. It's not blind faith though is it, we cannot continue to play like that and lose games, it's not possible. If we had 11 men yesterday we would have walked that game. Just think what a couple of wins will do for the confidence of the team, this team with this manager will come out the other side of it stronger as a group.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 15, 2019 8:33:04 GMT
Despite the damning facts I thought the support from the crowd was fabulous yesterday - you'd of thought we were top of the league! Ssssh, it's the fans' fault
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 8:33:45 GMT
N'diaye has clearly made a lot of difference allready, that one presence in the middle will improve results.
Sticking by the manager all the way will be something the club can be proud of when some will have shit it and made the change
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2019 8:36:43 GMT
I think the players work for him as fullermagic says. He's a likeable guy.
It's basic stuff though. His full backs can't defend the back post when a cross comes in. That is something that can be addressed on the training pitch. U instead he chucks on a crap centre back extra, which adds nothing and means etebo/duffy don't play.
The best thing he's done is get Badou to turn in a defensive midfield performance, he may have found the answer in midfield, but too late to save himself.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 15, 2019 8:37:08 GMT
It seems, to add to his failings, that Jones can't even say he's a lucky manager who can pull something out of the hat when needed. Then again, if we keep giving him the safety net of another 20 games to fuck us up even further, he's used up all his luck there really.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 15, 2019 8:38:27 GMT
Given we are owned by bookies, surely they should see this and at the very least play the odds to avoid this? If they looking at the odds, they would have looked at which managers/DOFs are getting teams up and would have recognised that they come with three sorts of experience. 1) An intimate understanding of their own players and what makes them tick, from having got them promoted from L1: Howe and Wilder 2) An intimate knowledge of what it takes to get a team promoted before from this league: Hughton, Warnock, Bruce. Jokanavic, Dyke 3) A good knowledge of elite performance gained from having a senior footballing position in a top/wealthy/successful club or international set up: Farke/Webber, Wagner, Gil (Villa DOF), Espirito Santo, Benitez, Karanka. In the last 5 seasons, the one exception has been Alex Neil at Norwich (15/16). They would have then examined the odds of plucking a L1 manager - with no experience in the Championship or of a league of similar or better standard - and doing well in the Champs. Recent examples of where boards have done this are relatively rarer than you might expect: I might have missed a couple, but these are the ones i found since about 2012. - Paul Hurst at Ipswich (17/18) got them relegated.
- Paul Trollope at Cardiff in May 2016 who was sacked after winning 2 in 12 at Cardiff.
- Lee Johnson is the best success story, taking over relegation threatened Bristol City from Barnsley in Feb 2016 and overseeing an admirable evolution ever since.
- Warren Joyce took over Wigan in Nov 16 after coaching in Belgium and was sacked after winning 6 in 24.
- Dean Smith got the Brentford job in Nov 15 after being at Walsall and did what was seen as a good job there to build a mid table team - though, at a similar time as they appointed a sports science company owner, Phil Giles and bought about 10 new players, so questionable who drove this success!?.
- Gary Caldwell took over Wigan in 2015 with no past experience, when they were 23rd in April and took them down.
- Kit Symons took over ambitious Fulham on the back of caretaker roles at Palace and Colchester (and 9 games at Fulham), and was sacked 13mths later having won 22 and lost 25, with Fulham 12th.
- David Hockaday took over Leeds in June 2014 on the back of success at Forest Green and was sacked after 6 games.
- Russel Slade did okay with Cardiff after taking over in 2014 - getting them to 2 mid table finishes after taking over from L2 Orient, but which wasn't deemed good enough.
- Neil Redfearn took over Leeds after being Academy Head, and was sacked after 11 wins and 15 defeats in 33 with the owner calling him "weak" and a "baby" over handling of the squad.
- Paul Dickov took over newly prompted Doncaster, having managed Oldham in L1. They survived for a year with the promotion team and were then relegated and he was sacked.
- Lee Clarke took over Birmingham in 2012 after managing L1 Huddersfield and getting them into the PO finals twice - He did okayish for a year and then sacked with Birmingham 21st. He had another stab at Blackpool in the Champs, where he achieved a 9% win ratio in 33 games and was sacked again (Sound familiar?).
Not all abject failures, but failure is rarer than success, and there is barely a sniff of promotion in all this - So, if you were the board of a Champs side aspiring for promotion, what would you conclude about the odds for Jones succeeding with promotion? Absolutely outstanding research. I hope you don’t mind but I’ve pinched this to explain a few things to some friends on Twitter. It appears that whilst trying to be progressive and go down the up and coming route, we’ve not done the due diligence that they assure us the process provides.
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 15, 2019 8:59:32 GMT
If they looking at the odds, they would have looked at which managers/DOFs are getting teams up and would have recognised that they come with three sorts of experience. 1) An intimate understanding of their own players and what makes them tick, from having got them promoted from L1: Howe and Wilder 2) An intimate knowledge of what it takes to get a team promoted before from this league: Hughton, Warnock, Bruce. Jokanavic, Dyke 3) A good knowledge of elite performance gained from having a senior footballing position in a top/wealthy/successful club or international set up: Farke/Webber, Wagner, Gil (Villa DOF), Espirito Santo, Benitez, Karanka. In the last 5 seasons, the one exception has been Alex Neil at Norwich (15/16). They would have then examined the odds of plucking a L1 manager - with no experience in the Championship or of a league of similar or better standard - and doing well in the Champs. Recent examples of where boards have done this are relatively rarer than you might expect: I might have missed a couple, but these are the ones i found since about 2012. - Paul Hurst at Ipswich (17/18) got them relegated.
- Paul Trollope at Cardiff in May 2016 who was sacked after winning 2 in 12 at Cardiff.
- Lee Johnson is the best success story, taking over relegation threatened Bristol City from Barnsley in Feb 2016 and overseeing an admirable evolution ever since.
- Warren Joyce took over Wigan in Nov 16 after coaching in Belgium and was sacked after winning 6 in 24.
- Dean Smith got the Brentford job in Nov 15 after being at Walsall and did what was seen as a good job there to build a mid table team - though, at a similar time as they appointed a sports science company owner, Phil Giles and bought about 10 new players, so questionable who drove this success!?.
- Gary Caldwell took over Wigan in 2015 with no past experience, when they were 23rd in April and took them down.
- Kit Symons took over ambitious Fulham on the back of caretaker roles at Palace and Colchester (and 9 games at Fulham), and was sacked 13mths later having won 22 and lost 25, with Fulham 12th.
- David Hockaday took over Leeds in June 2014 on the back of success at Forest Green and was sacked after 6 games.
- Russel Slade did okay with Cardiff after taking over in 2014 - getting them to 2 mid table finishes after taking over from L2 Orient, but which wasn't deemed good enough.
- Neil Redfearn took over Leeds after being Academy Head, and was sacked after 11 wins and 15 defeats in 33 with the owner calling him "weak" and a "baby" over handling of the squad.
- Paul Dickov took over newly prompted Doncaster, having managed Oldham in L1. They survived for a year with the promotion team and were then relegated and he was sacked.
- Lee Clarke took over Birmingham in 2012 after managing L1 Huddersfield and getting them into the PO finals twice - He did okayish for a year and then sacked with Birmingham 21st. He had another stab at Blackpool in the Champs, where he achieved a 9% win ratio in 33 games and was sacked again (Sound familiar?).
Not all abject failures, but failure is rarer than success, and there is barely a sniff of promotion in all this - So, if you were the board of a Champs side aspiring for promotion, what would you conclude about the odds for Jones succeeding with promotion? Absolutely outstanding research. I hope you don’t mind but I’ve pinched this to explain a few things to some friends on Twitter. It appears that whilst trying to be progressive and go down the up and coming route, we’ve not done the due diligence that they assure us the process provides. That's kind, thanks, but sad we are pondering over this stuff.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 15, 2019 8:59:40 GMT
If they looking at the odds, they would have looked at which managers/DOFs are getting teams up and would have recognised that they come with three sorts of experience. 1) An intimate understanding of their own players and what makes them tick, from having got them promoted from L1: Howe and Wilder 2) An intimate knowledge of what it takes to get a team promoted before from this league: Hughton, Warnock, Bruce. Jokanavic, Dyke 3) A good knowledge of elite performance gained from having a senior footballing position in a top/wealthy/successful club or international set up: Farke/Webber, Wagner, Gil (Villa DOF), Espirito Santo, Benitez, Karanka. In the last 5 seasons, the one exception has been Alex Neil at Norwich (15/16). They would have then examined the odds of plucking a L1 manager - with no experience in the Championship or of a league of similar or better standard - and doing well in the Champs. Recent examples of where boards have done this are relatively rarer than you might expect: I might have missed a couple, but these are the ones i found since about 2012. - Paul Hurst at Ipswich (17/18) got them relegated.
- Paul Trollope at Cardiff in May 2016 who was sacked after winning 2 in 12 at Cardiff.
- Lee Johnson is the best success story, taking over relegation threatened Bristol City from Barnsley in Feb 2016 and overseeing an admirable evolution ever since.
- Warren Joyce took over Wigan in Nov 16 after coaching in Belgium and was sacked after winning 6 in 24.
- Dean Smith got the Brentford job in Nov 15 after being at Walsall and did what was seen as a good job there to build a mid table team - though, at a similar time as they appointed a sports science company owner, Phil Giles and bought about 10 new players, so questionable who drove this success!?.
- Gary Caldwell took over Wigan in 2015 with no past experience, when they were 23rd in April and took them down.
- Kit Symons took over ambitious Fulham on the back of caretaker roles at Palace and Colchester (and 9 games at Fulham), and was sacked 13mths later having won 22 and lost 25, with Fulham 12th.
- David Hockaday took over Leeds in June 2014 on the back of success at Forest Green and was sacked after 6 games.
- Russel Slade did okay with Cardiff after taking over in 2014 - getting them to 2 mid table finishes after taking over from L2 Orient, but which wasn't deemed good enough.
- Neil Redfearn took over Leeds after being Academy Head, and was sacked after 11 wins and 15 defeats in 33 with the owner calling him "weak" and a "baby" over handling of the squad.
- Paul Dickov took over newly prompted Doncaster, having managed Oldham in L1. They survived for a year with the promotion team and were then relegated and he was sacked.
- Lee Clarke took over Birmingham in 2012 after managing L1 Huddersfield and getting them into the PO finals twice - He did okayish for a year and then sacked with Birmingham 21st. He had another stab at Blackpool in the Champs, where he achieved a 9% win ratio in 33 games and was sacked again (Sound familiar?).
Not all abject failures, but failure is rarer than success, and there is barely a sniff of promotion in all this - So, if you were the board of a Champs side aspiring for promotion, what would you conclude about the odds for Jones succeeding with promotion? Absolutely outstanding research. I hope you don’t mind but I’ve pinched this to explain a few things to some friends on Twitter. It appears that whilst trying to be progressive and go down the up and coming route, we’ve not done the due diligence that they assure us the process provides. There's not much due diligence to be done really is there. He's clearly come with great character references and success in the lower leagues. The real question that should have been discussed in the board room is what are the chances of a lower league manager coming into a squad that has been failing for 3 years and getting them promoted to the premier league. The answer should have been its highly unlikely so they should have moved on to another candidate.
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Post by thehoof on Sept 15, 2019 9:20:30 GMT
No he doesn't but he was part of the process that appointed a manager who coaches players that repeatedly make the same mistakes game after game after game. That's 3 terrible appointments in a row. Jones has clearly lost the players and has to go today. Clearly lost the players? 🤣 There was an example yesterday when we were 2-1 down with 15 minutes to go, and Jones was about to make his second substitution which made me think he may have no respect with the players. Hogan, Vokes and Duffy were warming up by the Corner flag at the Boothen End. NJ was screaming down the line and waving his arms at them to get back to the dug out sharpish so that he could make the change. Hogan managed a jog, Duffy and Vokes walked and just carried on chatting to each other while Jones continued urging them to hurry up. It might be nothing, but it made me think.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 9:24:56 GMT
Of course it is it's ridiculous, that luck can not continue. Be careful what you wish for because changing the manager could have an adverse effect on player motivation. They are clearly playing for this manager (including n'diaye) it's only a matter of time before our fortune changes. Blind faith to keep us up then? OK. Be careful what you wish for. I'll happily remind you when you are moaning about dull football.
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Post by Goonie on Sept 15, 2019 9:33:09 GMT
It seems, to add to his failings, that Jones can't even say he's a lucky manager who can pull something out of the hat when needed. Then again, if we keep giving him the safety net of another 20 games to fuck us up even further, he's used up all his luck there really. 3 to 5 more tops then pray weren't not relegated
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Post by stokemark on Sept 15, 2019 9:39:24 GMT
Blind faith to keep us up then? OK. Be careful what you wish for. I'll happily remind you when you are moaning about dull football. Dull football and staying up this season will do for me Desperate times require desperate measures
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 15, 2019 9:43:09 GMT
Be careful what you wish for. I'll happily remind you when you are moaning about dull football. Dull football and staying up this season will do for me Desperate times require desperate measures It's not desperate though is it. 4 point behind with 39 to play.
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Post by wingy11 on Sept 15, 2019 9:50:40 GMT
Thats me finished until he’s gone, the stats don’t lie, had enough of the whole situation now. Cheap option time and time again as cost us. Get you hand in your pocket and get a pedigree manager, which should of happened when Hughes was sacked. Cheap options have got us into the mess we are in, whats the saying buy cheap buy twice??
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