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Post by mrcoke on Jul 29, 2019 23:11:12 GMT
The bloke will be a top manager , if we as supporters or club don’t reap the benefit of that we will only have ourselves to blame There's very little evidence of that, what are you basing it on exactly? His record at Luton was excellent. Played 170, won 87, drew 46. What's more Luton did not fall apart when he left, so he clearly established sustainable performance/systems. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2019 23:12:52 GMT
There's very little evidence of that, what are you basing it on exactly? His record at Luton was excellent. Played 170, won 87, drew 46. What's more Luton did not fall apart when he left, so he clearly established sustainable performance/systems. All very true and why I was over the moon when we got him. But then I saw him first hand and couldn’t have been less impressed. The only hope is this diamond and his bunch of misfits. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 23:41:42 GMT
This thread is the epitome of our situation right now. So many views and opinions. But ultimately I’m right and the rest of you cunts are wrong
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 29, 2019 23:43:41 GMT
There's very little evidence of that, what are you basing it on exactly? His record at Luton was excellent. Played 170, won 87, drew 46. What's more Luton did not fall apart when he left, so he clearly established sustainable performance/systems. Ah, you mean his record in league 2 and league 1. Great. When he's proven himself at a decent standard get back to me. |
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Post by uskstokie on Jul 29, 2019 23:53:25 GMT
Was listening while in work. Got to say he speaks very well. Certainly got a radio voice. But time to back it up!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 30, 2019 0:32:14 GMT
You're referring to McClean as he was last season, as he's been most of his career. But times are changing, and Jones believes he has a reformed player in him, so we shall have to judge him on what he does now, this season. He's not a winger and he's not an oldfashioned left back. He's something else; what Jones aims to call it I know not, but he's a new tactical invention. The minute he received the ball vs Leicester he was storming forward and in doing that (and that only) he looked promising. Not the finished article, but there's something going on. In an interview during preseason Jones said that we don't play with fullbacks (so that's why he bought two of them?), it'll take some getting used to but we have to try. But we’ve constantly been told this is one of the absolute key positions in this system. Why are we making do and experimenting with it? From the sounds of things, because we didn’t bother looking hard enough for a proper one. Maybe he thinks McClean is up to the job of doing what he wants, I'm skeptical if I'm honest but Jones knows better than anyone else what he's looking for in that position and if he's happy then so be it, I'll see how it pans out and hope for the best, going off the one friendly I thought there was enough there to not totally write him off, yeh he fucked up for the goal and his touch when he was near enough clean through was poor but there were some positives. |
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 30, 2019 0:40:03 GMT
There's very little evidence of that, what are you basing it on exactly? His record at Luton was excellent. Played 170, won 87, drew 46. What's more Luton did not fall apart when he left, so he clearly established sustainable performance/systems. And then he came here, a crap team doing very badly, and we ended up finishing two places below where we were when he came in. Whilst I wouldn't accept miracles from a manager brought in half way into a season with a squad he didn't choose, I would expect him to be able to squeeze a bit more out of it and improve things, even if only slightly. However there was absolutely no improvement whatsoever, and in many ways we got substantially worse. We now go into the new season with the majority of that awful squad still intact. Forgive me if I don't get carried away with excitement. |
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 30, 2019 1:13:25 GMT
Even though Rowett was arrogant, it has to be said he was very honest about everything. Whether it was good or bad for him is another but after hearing that Jones' interview there must be so much red tape for him not to mention stuff.
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Post by s7oke on Jul 30, 2019 4:01:11 GMT
But we did A pulis side had it And a sprinkling of quality You need players who you would be in the trenches with players who care a bit players who have pride Not overpriced overpaid wankers Then you can add to it quality once the basics are in place Nothing fancy just solid and effective You need players who can pass the ball. Who can cross the ball. And who can shoot straight. That’s what we struggled with last season. I agree but if we can’t get the correct players that the manager wants he is better to go with what he has. His coaching and tactical awareness should improve our squad though as by all accounts they haven’t been coached properly for the last four or five seasons. Let’s see how we start the season before we get on their backs. I would love an all out attacking wing back and an nzonzi type midfielder but if there are non available that suit what can he do. The mistakes have already been made in recruitment and now as a club we are paying the price financially. |
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Post by s7oke on Jul 30, 2019 4:07:58 GMT
But we did A pulis side had it And a sprinkling of quality You need players who you would be in the trenches with players who care a bit players who have pride Not overpriced overpaid wankers Then you can add to it quality once the basics are in place Nothing fancy just solid and effective But everyone in a Pulis system was suited to where they were playing. Unfortunately we don’t have player suited to this system. I fully agree that in a flat 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 we’d be solid and effective but in a diamond we’re exposed in key areas. But were they ? how many centre halves did we play under pulis and there were a certain amount of square pegs in round holes because he knew that he could rely on them the same as jones is doing I think ! He hasn’t said that he is going to start the season playing the diamond just that it is his preferred formation with the correct players which he knows we don’t have Not saying he isn’t going to try that formation because I’m sure he is but if it doesn’t work he isn’t naive enough not to change it to plan b |
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 30, 2019 4:28:03 GMT
Just listened, had to laugh at the doublespeak about McClean... he’s got every attribute we look for in a full-back, apart from the fact that he doesn’t know how to play there because he’s a winger. 😁
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2019 5:26:27 GMT
Arnold at liverpool, great going forward, cant defend save his life a lot of the time, and the same goes for quite a lot of modern day full backs.
We just now have to fine tune McLean going forward. 😉
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 30, 2019 6:05:28 GMT
Lets not have any confusion
He did his best to praise Ward and please everyone but he did basically say we got what we could.
Same as his answers with Bojan, he didnt rate him. He obviously was very careful with his "it could be for any reason I dont know". For him alone to say that quite so many times Id say he knows exactly why. But I understand because he may genuinely want Bojan to go on and do well/find a club or not rock the boat with us like Rowett and basically say hes a shit footballer.
Point is whatever answers he gives hes going to be attacked for either being to honest or not really saying anything.
He cant be right in a situation like this, only charasmatic
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 30, 2019 6:18:03 GMT
Lets not have any confusion He did his best to praise Ward and please everyone but he did basically say we got what we could. Same as his answers with Bojan, he didnt rate him. He obviously was very careful with his "it could be for any reason I dont know". For him alone to say that quite so many times Id say he knows exactly why. But I understand because he may genuinely want Bojan to go on and do well/find a club or not rock the boat with us like Rowett and basically say hes a shit footballer. Point is whatever answers he gives hes going to be attacked for either being to honest or not really saying anything. He cant be right in a situation like this, only charasmatic The psychology experts on here have done a fine job in dissecting his every word and telling us what he’s REALLY thinking. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2019 6:25:48 GMT
You need players who can pass the ball. Who can cross the ball. And who can shoot straight. That’s what we struggled with last season. I agree but if we can’t get the correct players that the manager wants he is better to go with what he has. His coaching and tactical awareness should improve our squad though as by all accounts they haven’t been coached properly for the last four or five seasons. Let’s see how we start the season before we get on their backs. I would love an all out attacking wing back and an nzonzi type midfielder but if there are non available that suit what can he do. The mistakes have already been made in recruitment and now as a club we are paying the price financially. So you’re telling me that isn’t a left back in the world that we could have gone after bar James Justin and Stephen Ward? That’s one of the mistakes in recruitment. It’s what we’ve seen time and time before from our recruitment department. If you miss out on Soares you get Johnson, if you miss out on Lemina you get Afellay etc. |
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2019 6:29:52 GMT
Lets not have any confusion He did his best to praise Ward and please everyone but he did basically say we got what we could. Same as his answers with Bojan, he didnt rate him. He obviously was very careful with his "it could be for any reason I dont know". For him alone to say that quite so many times Id say he knows exactly why. But I understand because he may genuinely want Bojan to go on and do well/find a club or not rock the boat with us like Rowett and basically say hes a shit footballer. Point is whatever answers he gives hes going to be attacked for either being to honest or not really saying anything. He cant be right in a situation like this, only charasmatic The psychology experts on here have done a fine job in dissecting his every word and telling us what he’s REALLY thinking. It's like an episode of touch of frost, Poirot, miss marple, Quincy, with a touch of a 3-2-1 clue in there. |
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 30, 2019 6:38:36 GMT
The psychology experts on here have done a fine job in dissecting his every word and telling us what he’s REALLY thinking. It's like an episode of touch of frost, Poirot, miss marple, Quincy, with a touch of a 3-2-1 clue in there. 3-2-1 is the free pass card for the armchair psychologist in this scenario, because you can make any old shit up. Jones: “We’re working hard to signing a forward, but obviously I can’t name him” Oatcake expert: “Pulis used to say working ‘ard, and he used to manage Gillingham. They lost in the playoff final years ago to Man City, who had Paul Dickov playing for them. Fucking hell, we’re trying to sign Ian Ormondroyd” |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 6:41:31 GMT
You're referring to McClean as he was last season, as he's been most of his career. But times are changing, and Jones believes he has a reformed player in him, so we shall have to judge him on what he does now, this season. He's not a winger and he's not an oldfashioned left back. He's something else; what Jones aims to call it I know not, but he's a new tactical invention. The minute he received the ball vs Leicester he was storming forward and in doing that (and that only) he looked promising. Not the finished article, but there's something going on. In an interview during preseason Jones said that we don't play with fullbacks (so that's why he bought two of them?), it'll take some getting used to but we have to try. He can’t defend though. And call me old fashioned but that’s pretty key to his role. The manager would have you believe he's learning. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2019 6:53:53 GMT
I don't think any genuine stoke city supporter wants Jones to fail. I'd bet good money that there isnt a single one that wants that. I'm looking forward to him proving beyond all doubt that he isnt the 2nd coming of Alan ball. Some wanted Pulis to fail, some wanted Hughes to fail. They had to wait a long time so they could say they were right, on both, after suffering years of Stoke success! Rubbish. I don't believe that for 1 minute |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 6:53:54 GMT
But everyone in a Pulis system was suited to where they were playing. Unfortunately we don’t have player suited to this system. I fully agree that in a flat 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 we’d be solid and effective but in a diamond we’re exposed in key areas. But were they ? how many centre halves did we play under pulis and there were a certain amount of square pegs in round holes because he knew that he could rely on them the same as jones is doing I think ! He hasn’t said that he is going to start the season playing the diamond just that it is his preferred formation with the correct players which he knows we don’t have Not saying he isn’t going to try that formation because I’m sure he is but if it doesn’t work he isn’t naive enough not to change it to plan b His plan b, as it's played out in pre-season games, is a variation of the diamond with three central defenders and a lone striker. No fullbacks, but two wide men, still an anchor and a ten, and two midfielders covering everything. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2019 6:57:21 GMT
I don't think any genuine stoke city supporter wants Jones to fail. I'd bet good money that there isnt a single one that wants that. I'm looking forward to him proving beyond all doubt that he isnt the 2nd coming of Alan ball. Genuine yes. Some can't but help slate him and keep bringing up last season's stats. Only a couple. I remember when we lost to Palace at home in our promotion season, the abuse some were giving Pulis. We were 4th at the time I think. Baffled by some of the negativity after Saturday he got from some but some just seem to appear when we lose. Really looking forward to Saturday, we'll lose games but a long season People are right to use the only evidence they have available to Express their concerns. Based purely on the evidence of what we've seen to date there is very little to be positive about. I fail to see how any genuine stoke fan couldn't be concerned. Jones has much to prove and has it all to do. |
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Post by Pirate on Jul 30, 2019 6:57:57 GMT
If anybody buys that there isnt a better left back out there for us than somebody that isnt actually a left back then i have some purest green here if you want to start the bidding?
Cant help but like Nathan, he is full of personality & enthusiasm & he is always going to say he is happy with the guys he has so i didnt expect him to do anything else than say JM was the man & we have enough pace etc, what he actually thinks, who knows, thats the trouble with these interviews, they ultimately are a bit pointless.
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Post by geoffscott on Jul 30, 2019 6:58:53 GMT
Thought Nathan Jones came across very well.
Be it a minority, still surprised by some of the comments made and repeated by a handful of Stoke supporters on here.
Alternatively came across these observations on an agenda free leading sports website....
STOKE CITY haven't spent huge amounts of money this summer, but they've made some very clever additions which should pay off across the course of a season.
Nathan Jones has welcomed seven new faces to his squad. Five of those were free transfers, while Liam Lindsay made the switch from Barnsley for £2m and Tommy Smith joined from Huddersfield for around the £4m mark.
The one thing that has stood out to me regarding the Potters' business is that you can't really pick any faults with it.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2019 6:59:36 GMT
I agree but if we can’t get the correct players that the manager wants he is better to go with what he has. His coaching and tactical awareness should improve our squad though as by all accounts they haven’t been coached properly for the last four or five seasons. Let’s see how we start the season before we get on their backs. I would love an all out attacking wing back and an nzonzi type midfielder but if there are non available that suit what can he do. The mistakes have already been made in recruitment and now as a club we are paying the price financially. So you’re telling me that isn’t a left back in the world that we could have gone after bar James Justin and Stephen Ward? That’s one of the mistakes in recruitment. It’s what we’ve seen time and time before from our recruitment department. If you miss out on Soares you get Johnson, if you miss out on Lemina you get Afellay etc. To be fair, whilst there may not be one in the whole world, we did actually have one already at the club  |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jul 30, 2019 7:05:18 GMT
He can’t defend though. And call me old fashioned but that’s pretty key to his role. The manager would have you believe he's learning. And why wouldn't you believe him? He will improve his defensive work with games & the good coaching that Jones & his team pride themselves on. Its Time to show a bit of confidence and faith in the manager & his players. The season starts Saturday we dont need an undercurrent from the first game (again) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 7:14:02 GMT
Thought Nathan Jones came across very well. Be it a minority, still surprised by some of the comments made and repeated by a handful of Stoke supporters on here. Alternatively came across these observations on an agenda free leading sports website.... STOKE CITY haven't spent huge amounts of money this summer, but they've made some very clever additions which should pay off across the course of a season. Nathan Jones has welcomed seven new faces to his squad. Five of those were free transfers, while Liam Lindsay made the switch from Barnsley for £2m and Tommy Smith joined from Huddersfield for around the £4m mark. The one thing that has stood out to me regarding the Potters' business is that you can't really pick any faults with it.
The same ones that also said we were getting promoted last season? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 30, 2019 7:25:30 GMT
Even though Rowett was arrogant, it has to be said he was very honest about everything. Whether it was good or bad for him is another but after hearing that Jones' interview there must be so much red tape for him not to mention stuff. He wasn’t. Don’t confuse being outspoken with being honest. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 30, 2019 7:33:00 GMT
Some wanted Pulis to fail, some wanted Hughes to fail. They had to wait a long time so they could say they were right, on both, after suffering years of Stoke success! Rubbish. I don't believe that for 1 minute Believe what you want but it's not rubbish! |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2019 7:33:56 GMT
Rubbish. I don't believe that for 1 minute Believe what you want but it's not rubbish! Bring to my attention 1 single stoke fan that wants us to fail. Just 1. |
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 30, 2019 7:36:52 GMT
Even though Rowett was arrogant, it has to be said he was very honest about everything. Whether it was good or bad for him is another but after hearing that Jones' interview there must be so much red tape for him not to mention stuff. He wasn’t. Don’t confuse being outspoken with being honest. Im thinking exclusively in regards to his Bojan comments. Basically come right out and said hes not that player any more. Whether it was good or bad for him he came out and said it and what he thought. As much as it rubs myself and the fans up the wrong way it is very refreshing in interviews from managers rather than the usual scapegoating answers. I get why Jones' is approaching it this way to, like most managers they approach fans on a need to know basis. Yes they might want to be honest but some answers they cant give for fear that itll decrease a transfer fee (bad for the club), kill a players motivation or relationships with them (bad for squad morale/relationship with managers). Thats the only reason I liked Rowett in that instance and not the arrogance. But purely for the fact he called a spade a spade in interviews. Again it didnt end well for him but his criticism of players early on after games was something I havent heard from a managers here other than vague excuses. It was refreshing in all honesty, just a shame he couldnt back himself up. I like Jones and want to buy into it and everything but its hard because he's so self aware when speaking to and for fans. Like players when they sign for a new club, its always the same old spiel. "Big club, massive history etc etc yawn" The hardest part about getting behind Jones is unlike Hughes or probably lambert (though they were unlikely to be offered the opportunity) he'll be off the first sniff he gets at either the prem or a big club. Exactly how hes left luton, if he was that attached to Luton and adored and about to be in the same league why would he not leave us like that in a hurry at the first chance? |
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