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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 5, 2019 6:37:57 GMT
How serious do we think the manager is about not signing loan players? Has that been overblown, and can we really afford to ignore that market?
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Post by werrington on Jul 5, 2019 6:42:24 GMT
How serious do we think the manager is about not signing loan players? Has that been overblown, and can we really afford to ignore that market? I don’t think any manager can discount loans mate as if somebody becomes available who’d be a fantastic acquisition on a loan it might be too hard to turn down Loans are a pivotal part of succeeding outside of the premiership ( and even in it tbh ) It’d be madness not to use it |
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Post by Gods on Jul 5, 2019 7:10:09 GMT
I think we'll see a couple of racy loan signings come in to sex up the transfer window a little, it needs it.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 5, 2019 7:14:35 GMT
He seems to have loaned a few at Luton, so this loan aversion may have been overblown
His first signing there in 2016 was a defender called Alan Sheehan on a half-season loan, and he made that permanent the following summer and he went on to become captain.
Glen Rea was also loaned in from Brighton that season, who went on to become a key player there when it was made permanent
The keeper Walton spent the whole of 16-17 there.
A Newcastle forward called Gillead also spent the first half of 16-17 there
And he loaned another keeper, Macey from Arsenal, in the January of that season.
Flynn Downes spent the second half of 17-18 there from Ipswich.
Jorge Grant from Forest joined on a season-loan last summer.
He also loaned in George Thorne from Derby for a half-season just before he came here in January.
In short, there seems to have been loads - just like every lower-league team. So he doesn't seem to have a major problem with it.
Whether it'd be different if he thought we had zero chance of making it permanent if they did well, who knows?
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Post by wuzza on Jul 5, 2019 7:20:06 GMT
Prior to last season I have always been sceptical of loan signings but you can’t avoid the evidence of your own eyes. The most influential players at so many clubs in this league were on loan from the Prem. It’s the natural conclusion of the top clubs hoovering up all the best young players I suppose.
Let’s hope we have a few irons in the fire.
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Post by cousindupree on Jul 5, 2019 7:25:06 GMT
He seemingly has a closed mind on 2 out of 3 routes to improving a squad, loans and overseas recruitment. I would be very interested to understand why he has no interest in either of these two strategies. Hopefully someone will ask him. I hope he isn't being influenced by our poor record of success in the loan market and often poor overseas recruitment.
He has little or no knowledge or contacts in overseas markets and will not get meaningful help from our not fit for purpose recruitment team. So I guess I understand why this route is closed.
However loans at Championship level are a proven and almost necessary way of getting premiership quality players into your squad. Derby without their loans would have been a shadow of the team they were last season without them.
To close 2 important routes for recruitment seems bonkers to me.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 5, 2019 7:27:23 GMT
Prior to last season I have always been sceptical of loan signings but you can’t avoid the evidence of your own eyes. The most influential players at so many clubs in this league were on loan from the Prem. It’s the natural conclusion of the top clubs hoovering up all the best young players I suppose. Let’s hope we have a few irons in the fire. Yeah - no doubt that loans can be absolute difference-makers. Although to get a spectacular haul like Derby's, with the Lampard link, was pretty unusual. Wonder who's going to be available, of that calibre, this season though? Off hand, can't think of any spectacular left-back options. Nketiah from Arsenal seems to be in-demand among Championship teams as a striker, but probably only an option here if we shift Afobe. Brewster at Liverpool would be great - ut seems like he's going to be much more involved there. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 5, 2019 7:30:40 GMT
If there is one thing that concerns me, it's this. But having said that he's got a decent record of loaning one or two and then going onto sign them, like Andrew Shinnie and the aforementioned Sheehan. Maybe it's more an aversion to signing players on loan without the possibility of being able to keep them here at the end of the loan?
He was still signing players on loan for Luton right up until when he left.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 5, 2019 7:32:27 GMT
Prior to last season I have always been sceptical of loan signings but you can’t avoid the evidence of your own eyes. The most influential players at so many clubs in this league were on loan from the Prem. It’s the natural conclusion of the top clubs hoovering up all the best young players I suppose. Let’s hope we have a few irons in the fire. Yeah - no doubt that loans can be absolute difference-makers. Although to get a spectacular haul like Derby's, with the Lampard link, was pretty unusual. Wonder who's going to be available, of that calibre, this season though? Off hand, can't think of any spectacular left-back options. Nketiah from Arsenal seems to be in-demand among Championship teams as a striker, but probably only an option here if we shift Afobe. Brewster at Liverpool would be great - ut seems like he's going to be much more involved there. It's a shame about Matt Targett really, it would have been great if we could have got him in for a year with an option to buy with promotion or something. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 5, 2019 7:32:29 GMT
When....if I mean if his managerial career goes tits up he’s got a catchy name for a loan company here.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 5, 2019 7:35:17 GMT
When....if I mean if his managerial career goes tits up he’s got a catchy name for a loan company here. I'm going to love it when Jonesy proves you wrong. You're really painting yourself into a corner, Bayern  |
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Post by wuzza on Jul 5, 2019 7:36:33 GMT
Prior to last season I have always been sceptical of loan signings but you can’t avoid the evidence of your own eyes. The most influential players at so many clubs in this league were on loan from the Prem. It’s the natural conclusion of the top clubs hoovering up all the best young players I suppose. Let’s hope we have a few irons in the fire. Yeah - no doubt that loans can be absolute difference-makers. Although to get a spectacular haul like Derby's, with the Lampard link, was pretty unusual. Wonder who's going to be available, of that calibre, this season though? Off hand, can't think of any spectacular left-back options. Nketiah from Arsenal seems to be in-demand among Championship teams as a striker, but probably only an option here if we shift Afobe. Brewster at Liverpool would be great - ut seems like he's going to be much more involved there. It’s where the manager really does need the back up of a ‘transfer team’ providing an in depth knowledge of PL reserve set ups and with the appropriate contacts to make deals possible. We shall see. |
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 5, 2019 7:39:12 GMT
When....if I mean if his managerial career goes tits up he’s got a catchy name for a loan company here. Nathan’s Loans? Not that catchy. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 5, 2019 8:19:28 GMT
When....if I mean if his managerial career goes tits up he’s got a catchy name for a loan company here. I'm going to love it when Jonesy proves you wrong. You're really painting yourself into a corner, Bayern I desperately want him to because if he doesn't I think we'll be in League One. I'm hoping there's a diamond epiphany in the offing. |
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Post by somersetstokie on Jul 5, 2019 8:20:08 GMT
Prior to last season I have always been sceptical of loan signings but you can’t avoid the evidence of your own eyes. The most influential players at so many clubs in this league were on loan from the Prem. It’s the natural conclusion of the top clubs hoovering up all the best young players I suppose. Let’s hope we have a few irons in the fire. [/b] Takes me straight back to TP and players like Shola Ameobi. |
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 5, 2019 8:27:27 GMT
Still think fat fwank will ha e a strong part to play in helping derby, can see mount or abraham going there. Chelsea need the youth but they would not be going straight into the match day squad so may aswell get them game time somewhere.
Morris said in his statement he hopes to maintain the professional relationship with Chelsea so I reckon FL will throw a few players their way.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 5, 2019 8:31:33 GMT
Still think fat fwank will ha e a strong part to play in helping derby, can see mount or abraham going there. Chelsea need the youth but they would not be going straight into the match day squad so may aswell get them game time somewhere. Morris said in his statement he hopes to maintain the professional relationship with Chelsea so I reckon FL will throw a few players their way. If their ban is maintained then Abraham will likely be playing at some point in the season. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 5, 2019 8:37:05 GMT
Still think fat fwank will ha e a strong part to play in helping derby, can see mount or abraham going there. Chelsea need the youth but they would not be going straight into the match day squad so may aswell get them game time somewhere. Morris said in his statement he hopes to maintain the professional relationship with Chelsea so I reckon FL will throw a few players their way. If their ban is maintained then Abraham will likely be playing at some point in the season. I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. |
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Post by knype on Jul 5, 2019 8:41:18 GMT
I'm going to love it when Jonesy proves you wrong. You're really painting yourself into a corner, Bayern I desperately want him to because if he doesn't I think we'll be in League One. I'm hoping there's a diamond epiphany in the offing. Deluded, negative, not welcome! |
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Post by knype on Jul 5, 2019 8:42:04 GMT
If their ban is maintained then Abraham will likely be playing at some point in the season. I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. Because they did amazingly at Derby...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 8:42:33 GMT
When....if I mean if his managerial career goes tits up he’s got a catchy name for a loan company here. Nathan’s Loans? Not that catchy. Well no, that one's not, but the title of the thread on the other hand... |
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Post by LankyPotter on Jul 5, 2019 8:45:20 GMT
How serious do we think the manager is about not signing loan players? Has that been overblown, and can we really afford to ignore that market? He has said before that he uses the loan market to bring in players that his teams otherwise wouldn’t be able to get permanently. Which is how it should be used in honesty. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 5, 2019 8:53:46 GMT
If their ban is maintained then Abraham will likely be playing at some point in the season. I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. 'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 9:51:29 GMT
I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. 'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? Actually I think they went for the best young English manager . A club in their position with all the money invested cannot afford to appoint merely on sentiment or they would have taken Terry. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 5, 2019 9:59:03 GMT
'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? Actually I think they went for the best young English manager . A club in their position with all the money invested cannot afford to appoint merely on sentiment or they would have taken Terry. Howe surely? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 10:02:15 GMT
I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. 'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? Is it not logical that he'll be better suited to a league he knows at a club he spent most of his life playing for? Similarly, were a lot of Chelsea's problems last season not that the players and Sarri didn't seem to see eye to eye? Especially with their transfer ban they need to come together as a team. Maybe its not that they are going to be shooting for the Premier League title but that that they have a great set of players that need to come together and I can't think of anyone better for that? Being a great player in a league doesn't make you a great manager of course but it does give you a good foundation to build on and will unite the club surely. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 5, 2019 10:22:40 GMT
I'm not sure why people can't grasp this and why actually that Lampard and Morris especially at this point in time are seemingly ideal for the job. They will need to use a lot of their younger players and in Morris especially, there's no one better for that. 'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? But he did and they're in a situation where they've got to use what they've got. Who's available presently? There's real standout. Their fans pretty much disliked Sarri so he quells that. They're going to have use academy players and he and Morris know them well. I think it's a great appointment tbh. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 5, 2019 10:23:37 GMT
'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? Is it not logical that he'll be better suited to a league he knows at a club he spent most of his life playing for? Similarly, were a lot of Chelsea's problems last season not that the players and Sarri didn't seem to see eye to eye? Especially with their transfer ban they need to come together as a team. Maybe its not that they are going to be shooting for the Premier League title but that that they have a great set of players that need to come together and I can't think of anyone better for that? Being a great player in a league doesn't make you a great manager of course but it does give you a good foundation to build on and will unite the club surely. Football doesn't work like that. First of all, the 'problems' with Sarri saw them come third in the league and win a European Trophy. It really doesn't seem that bad? Second, I really cannot abide this 'knows the club' stuff, as if knowing what draw they keep the hobnobs in qualifies you to manage an elite club. Just because he was a top player and played for them doesn't mean he knows how to man-manage or motivate and it doesn't mean he's tactically astute. It's throwing a rookie into a pressure cooker situation he hasn't yet developed the skills to navigate. There are countless great players who have failed miserably as managers. 'Knowing the place' didn't help Tim Sherwood and it doesn't look like it's helping Solskjaer. |
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 5, 2019 10:34:25 GMT
Is it not logical that he'll be better suited to a league he knows at a club he spent most of his life playing for? Similarly, were a lot of Chelsea's problems last season not that the players and Sarri didn't seem to see eye to eye? Especially with their transfer ban they need to come together as a team. Maybe its not that they are going to be shooting for the Premier League title but that that they have a great set of players that need to come together and I can't think of anyone better for that? Being a great player in a league doesn't make you a great manager of course but it does give you a good foundation to build on and will unite the club surely. Football doesn't work like that. First of all, the 'problems' with Sarri saw them come third in the league and win a European Trophy. It really doesn't seem that bad? Second, I really cannot abide this 'knows the club' stuff, as if knowing what draw they keep the hobnobs in qualifies you to manage an elite club. Just because he was a top player and played for them doesn't mean he knows how to man-manage or motivate and it doesn't mean he's tactically astute. It's throwing a rookie into a pressure cooker situation he hasn't yet developed the skills to navigate. There are countless great players who have failed miserably as managers. 'Knowing the place' didn't help Tim Sherwood and it doesn't look like it's helping Solskjaer. Wait till hes bouncing round celebrating like a player after a win. Time will tell on this one, hes got the pedigree to be a good manager but at that end of the table, you get found out very quickly. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 5, 2019 10:40:02 GMT
'No one'? Really? He's had one season of senior management and finished a respectable but fairly ordinary sixth in the Championship. On what planet does that qualify you to manage the Europa League winners and third best team in the country? Just because he gave Mason Mount a game? If he hadn't played for Chelsea, do you think they'd have gone for the Championship's sixth best manager? But he did and they're in a situation where they've got to use what they've got. Who's available presently? There's real standout. Their fans pretty much disliked Sarri so he quells that. They're going to have use academy players and he and Morris know them well. I think it's a great appointment tbh. But he did what? Bielsa would've been a better appointment than Lampard, for all he's mad as a box of frogs. I'm no fan of Eddie Howe but surely even he's more qualified than Lampard? Allegri is available. Yer man at Wolves would've taken it. The bloke at Watford has done more than Lampard and is a rising star. I don't know how people can say it's a great appointment based on one season in the Championship, just because he played a few youngsters. |
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