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Post by silverdollar on Feb 23, 2019 19:28:11 GMT
I despair when I read so many stupid comments regarding management at Stoke. When players are signed they sign a contract. No manager can ever come in and wave a magic wand! Every new incumbent has to work with what he has inherited. What our last three managers have inherited is a nightmare just as bad as the one that has seen Sunderland drop like a stone. We have witnessed players signed at Stoke who are not good enough for Division One never mind Premier League. Lambert, Rowett and Nathan Jones are not bad managers! When are so called fans going to realise that it is going to take at least two or three years for anyone to turn our present situation around. I have every faith that Nathan Jones is worth placing faith in. Not too long ago we were conceding three goals per game. In a very short time he has clearly set his stall out. Vokes and Batth are proving themselves good investments. I shall be really interested in our progress over the summer.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 19:43:48 GMT
I despair when I read so many stupid comments regarding management at Stoke. When players are signed they sign a contract. No manager can ever come in and wave a magic wand! Every new incumbent has to work with what he has inherited. What our last three managers have inherited is a nightmare just as bad as the one that has seen Sunderland drop like a stone. We have witnessed players signed at Stoke who are not good enough for Division One never mind Premier League. Lambert, Rowett and Nathan Jones are not bad managers! When are so called fans going to realise that it is going to take at least two or three years for anyone to turn our present situation around. I have every faith that Nathan Jones is worth placing faith in. Not too long ago we were conceding three goals per game. In a very short time he has clearly set his stall out. Vokes and Batth are proving themselves good investments. I shall be really interested in our progress over the summer. Can't remember too many people complaining when we signed Ince, Afobe, Etebo, Clucas and Woods. All players who either should or could perform at the top of their game in the Championship. We've entrusted two relatively inexperienced Managers with a wealth of playing talent interlaced with old head premier professionals with all the ego and politics that go with it. There is going to be no mass clear out this summer either. Maybe one or two replaced with Luton players eager for a pay rise. Mid table next season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 19:49:51 GMT
We're going off on a tangent here, because I've already stated that I'm not particularly defending Gary Rowett, I was just pointing out that Jones is getting off completely scott free when he hasn't improved us one bit, whereas Rowett was never afforded that luxury by the same folk. It's a fact that earlier in the season many people were slagging Rowett off for not having us in the promotion race because apparently we have got a squad full of internationals, but those very same people are now saying that our squad is shit and that Jones is doing the best he can with the crap at his disposal. Personally I don't think he is doing very well, but that doesn't mean I don't want him to get the time he needs. Basically, he isn't above criticism even though he is only just starting out on his managerial journey with us, but it seems he is by a large percentage of people who were quick to write Rowett off. That is hypocrisy in my book. I don’t think we are going off on a tangent, as I’m pointing out how the situations aren’t the same. Jones isn’t above criticism but he can’t really be compared to Rowett because Rowett had more time and resources and Jones has inherited not just the problems Rowett did but a bunch more that Rowett created. I'm not convinced that Rowetts signings are the problem. Obviously Williams and Martina weren't good signings and McClean is what he is, a championship plodder, but Ince, Woods and Afobe have all had recent success in this division, which suggests to me that the problems that are undoubtedly there we're endemic before this lot arrived, and you could also argue that they all played fairly well when they first arrived but the longer they've been here the worse they've got, which is also a damning indictment of what our dressing room was like before they arrived. One thing we do agree on though is that Jones needs time and the pre-season to try and put his stamp on this club, but in my opinion he's getting a free ride at the moment when he shouldn't be because he's making mistakes aplenty I my opinion regardless of what hand he's been dealt.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 23, 2019 19:51:02 GMT
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 19:55:20 GMT
I don’t think we are going off on a tangent, as I’m pointing out how the situations aren’t the same. Jones isn’t above criticism but he can’t really be compared to Rowett because Rowett had more time and resources and Jones has inherited not just the problems Rowett did but a bunch more that Rowett created. I'm not convinced that Rowetts signings are the problem. Obviously Williams and Martina weren't good signings and McClean is what he is, a championship plodder, but Ince, Woods and Afobe have all had recent success in this division, which suggests to me that the problems that are undoubtedly there we're endemic before this lot arrived, and you could also argue that they all played fairly well when they first arrived but the longer they've been here the worse they've got, which is also a damning indictment of what our dressing room was like before they arrived. One thing we do agree on though is that Jones needs time and the pre-season to try and put his stamp on this club, but in my opinion he's getting a free ride at the moment when he shouldn't be because he's making mistakes aplenty I my opinion regardless of what hand he's been dealt. Sorry, these are all grown men, are we saying they can’t be responsible for themselves? Afobe in particular is a disgrace. Rowett went out of his way to sign him despite him not fitting his system and the lack of effort he puts in is embarrassing. That’s down to him, nobody else.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Feb 23, 2019 19:56:49 GMT
Another charlatan of a manager. He has absolutely no idea what he's doing. It's clear the players don't know what he's trying to do either. Id agree I thought today more than ever the players looked confused he seems to tell them instructions during the game Ince BMi McClean all had words from him today and all looked perplexed. I just can't see how we can go from a performance like today to being near the top in Aug with four weeks of pre season and a small number of new recruits because that's what you'd expect taking into account his 'free ride' this half of the season. Personally for me he doesn't get a free ride because you need to start shaping your team immediately as you won't be changing a whole team in Aug you need to be getting your players on board from day one but I can't see what he's doing at all and some of his decisions are baffling me, we aren't exciting to watch either, couple that with his pre and post match ramblings about 'the process' and I'm perplexed. I know he's assured in his own mind but can he transfer that to the real world I'm not so sure, add to that the senior executive circus at the club in charge of transfers still escaping removal and to me it ain't looking that bright a future!!'
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 19:57:37 GMT
I'm not convinced that Rowetts signings are the problem. Obviously Williams and Martina weren't good signings and McClean is what he is, a championship plodder, but Ince, Woods and Afobe have all had recent success in this division, which suggests to me that the problems that are undoubtedly there we're endemic before this lot arrived, and you could also argue that they all played fairly well when they first arrived but the longer they've been here the worse they've got, which is also a damning indictment of what our dressing room was like before they arrived. One thing we do agree on though is that Jones needs time and the pre-season to try and put his stamp on this club, but in my opinion he's getting a free ride at the moment when he shouldn't be because he's making mistakes aplenty I my opinion regardless of what hand he's been dealt. Sorry, these are all grown men, are we saying they can’t be responsible for themselves? Afobe in particular is a disgrace. Rowett went out of his way to sign him despite him not fitting his system and the lack of effort he puts in is embarrassing. That’s down to him, nobody else. I agree. But it's also a managers job to get a tune out of the players at his disposal which Rowett was slammed for, whereas Jones isn't getting slammed for it. Which brings us back to my original point.
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Post by FrankButcher on Feb 23, 2019 19:58:54 GMT
I despair when I read so many stupid comments regarding management at Stoke. When players are signed they sign a contract. No manager can ever come in and wave a magic wand! Every new incumbent has to work with what he has inherited. What our last three managers have inherited is a nightmare just as bad as the one that has seen Sunderland drop like a stone. We have witnessed players signed at Stoke who are not good enough for Division One never mind Premier League. Lambert, Rowett and Nathan Jones are not bad managers! When are so called fans going to realise that it is going to take at least two or three years for anyone to turn our present situation around. I have every faith that Nathan Jones is worth placing faith in. Not too long ago we were conceding three goals per game. In a very short time he has clearly set his stall out. Vokes and Batth are proving themselves good investments. I shall be really interested in our progress over the summer. Can't remember too many people complaining when we signed Ince, Afobe, Etebo, Clucas and Woods. All players who either should or could perform at the top of their game in the Championship. We've entrusted two relatively inexperienced Managers with a wealth of playing talent interlaced with old head premier professionals with all the ego and politics that go with it. There is going to be no mass clear out this summer either. Maybe one or two replaced with Luton players eager for a pay rise. Mid table next season. The way we are going we could well be in a relegation scrap next season if most of this squad remains and can't be shifted not only that but we seem in free fall 1 win in 13 games is relegation form these players don't seem to have the fight or bottle to scrape a win or get results over the line as Jones said in his post match interview we desperately need a mentality shift and quick!
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Post by neddy on Feb 23, 2019 20:00:18 GMT
I think we have to see when like GR he’s bought in his players as at the moment only two have come in....hadn’t GR signed 7?
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 20:00:39 GMT
Can't remember too many people complaining when we signed Ince, Afobe, Etebo, Clucas and Woods. All players who either should or could perform at the top of their game in the Championship. We've entrusted two relatively inexperienced Managers with a wealth of playing talent interlaced with old head premier professionals with all the ego and politics that go with it. There is going to be no mass clear out this summer either. Maybe one or two replaced with Luton players eager for a pay rise. Mid table next season. The way we are going we could well be in a relegation scrap next season if most of this squad remains and can't be shifted not only that but we seem in free fall 1 win in 13 games is relegation form these players don't seem to have the fight or bottle to scrape a win or get results over the line as Jones said in his post match interview we desperately need a mentality shift and quick! Well Fred.. There is only one bloke who can do that.
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Post by nik80 on Feb 23, 2019 20:05:53 GMT
The first half wasn’t good, but I’d say we were marginally the better team, quite why Jones changed the system from the off in the second half I don’t know. As others have said and I said during the match, he’s a clown. Tried three different systems in seventy odd minutes and we looked shit in all. We’ve known it for a long time, and this factor isn’t Jones’ fault but that team hasn’t got the heart or desire to fight for anything in this league. Piss poor match, especially second half. How shit are Villa as well? Two awful sides on display today! 😀
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Post by wuzza on Feb 23, 2019 20:28:20 GMT
Sorry, these are all grown men, are we saying they can’t be responsible for themselves? Afobe in particular is a disgrace. Rowett went out of his way to sign him despite him not fitting his system and the lack of effort he puts in is embarrassing. That’s down to him, nobody else. I agree. But it's also a managers job to get a tune out of the players at his disposal which Rowett was slammed for, whereas Jones isn't getting slammed for it. Which brings us back to my original point. I am baffled as to why people think Jones has no responsibility whatsoever to use the players at his disposal better - or indeed to make better players of them. Isn’t this one of the basic functions of coaching?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 20:30:09 GMT
I agree. But it's also a managers job to get a tune out of the players at his disposal which Rowett was slammed for, whereas Jones isn't getting slammed for it. Which brings us back to my original point. I am baffled as to why people think Jones has no responsibility whatsoever to use the players at his disposal better - or indeed to make better players of them. Isn’t this one of the basic functions of coaching? Yes it is, and to top it all off has admitted that a lot of them aren't fit either.
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Post by spikey2972 on Feb 23, 2019 20:31:04 GMT
This division is piss poor ,no team in the top six has really broken away.it has been seen that virtually any team in this league can beat one another.look at the top half of the division and most teams have spent nowhere near as much money as us.the difference I think between teams like Norwich, Leeds, sheff Utd etc is that they play as a team,they play for one another,we have got far to many individual players who think they are better than they actually are.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 20:34:06 GMT
Sorry, these are all grown men, are we saying they can’t be responsible for themselves? Afobe in particular is a disgrace. Rowett went out of his way to sign him despite him not fitting his system and the lack of effort he puts in is embarrassing. That’s down to him, nobody else. I agree. But it's also a managers job to get a tune out of the players at his disposal which Rowett was slammed for, whereas Jones isn't getting slammed for it. Which brings us back to my original point. Both failed/are failing. The differences are that one had a pre-season, three times as many games as the other and was allowed to bring in his own players who he then comprehensively failed to get a tune out of. Martina, Williams, Woods, Clucas, McClean, Ince, Afobe started most weeks for him and all have underperformed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 20:36:33 GMT
I agree. But it's also a managers job to get a tune out of the players at his disposal which Rowett was slammed for, whereas Jones isn't getting slammed for it. Which brings us back to my original point. I am baffled as to why people think Jones has no responsibility whatsoever to use the players at his disposal better - or indeed to make better players of them. Isn’t this one of the basic functions of coaching? I haven’t said Jones has no responsibility whatsoever. I’m just highlighting that the situations with he and Rowett aren’t the same. Also, I’m tempted to say it might take more than eight weeks to ‘make better players’.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 23, 2019 20:42:02 GMT
I am baffled as to why people think Jones has no responsibility whatsoever to use the players at his disposal better - or indeed to make better players of them. Isn’t this one of the basic functions of coaching? I haven’t said Jones has no responsibility whatsoever. I’m just highlighting that the situations with he and Rowett aren’t the same. Also, I’m tempted to say it might take more than eight weeks to ‘make better players’. No I’m not saying you in particular are but the number of times you hear ‘they aren’t his players’ as an excuse for godawful performances is unreal. If that principle was applied fairly we would never have sacked Lambert. In terms of the time he has had I think it’s a reasonable period to have worked out some sort of semblance of tactics that would work with what you’ve got but it’s still Fred Karno’s out there!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 20:42:09 GMT
Jones is shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic at the moment.
If he could click his fingers and end the season he would as pretty much every one of the current squad will be open to offers I would imagine.
I think people underestimate how difficult it is to get a tune out of this current shower, and the players he has to bring in from exile like Adam, Diouf, Bauer, Bojan are so far off match fitness they’re unlikely to be able to influence anything week in week out anyway.
Patience and support are what’s required at the moment, and in spades.....
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Post by Veritas on Feb 23, 2019 20:45:39 GMT
We will return to this thread next season and either the Sheik will be proved to have wonderful insight or he and many others will eat an extra large portion of humble pie. I hope and actually expect it to be the latter but am sure those now pouring forth bile will try to re-write history. I'm more than happy to do that. At what point would you like me to bring this thread back, just to be clear? This day next year seems fair enough
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 20:48:26 GMT
I haven’t said Jones has no responsibility whatsoever. I’m just highlighting that the situations with he and Rowett aren’t the same. Also, I’m tempted to say it might take more than eight weeks to ‘make better players’. No I’m not saying you in particular are but the number of times you hear ‘they aren’t his players’ as an excuse for godawful performances is unreal. If that principle was applied fairly we would never have sacked Lambert. In terms of the time he has had I think it’s a reasonable period to have worked out some sort of semblance of tactics that would work with what you’ve got but it’s still Fred Karno’s out there! I’m not convinced any tactics especially work for what we’ve got.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 20:48:29 GMT
Jones is shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic at the moment. If he could click his fingers and end the season he would as pretty much every one of the current squad will be open to offers I would imagine. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to get a tune out of this current shower, and the players he has to bring in from exile like Adam, Diouf, Bauer, Bojan are so far off match fitness they’re unlikely to be able to influence anything week in week out anyway. Patience and support are what’s required at the moment, and in spades..... Out of today's team who do you include in your "shower"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 20:53:54 GMT
No I’m not saying you in particular are but the number of times you hear ‘they aren’t his players’ as an excuse for godawful performances is unreal. If that principle was applied fairly we would never have sacked Lambert. In terms of the time he has had I think it’s a reasonable period to have worked out some sort of semblance of tactics that would work with what you’ve got but it’s still Fred Karno’s out there! I’m not convinced any tactics especially work for what we’ve got. Spot on mate. Absolutely bang on the money.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 23, 2019 20:54:29 GMT
No I’m not saying you in particular are but the number of times you hear ‘they aren’t his players’ as an excuse for godawful performances is unreal. If that principle was applied fairly we would never have sacked Lambert. In terms of the time he has had I think it’s a reasonable period to have worked out some sort of semblance of tactics that would work with what you’ve got but it’s still Fred Karno’s out there! I’m not convinced any tactics especially work for what we’ve got. I think an experienced bloke might have come up with something but , like Rowett , Jones is learning on the job.
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Post by bloodtypered on Feb 23, 2019 20:54:34 GMT
Cease your post match twaddle and take some responsibility. You're completely out of your depth pal. Total Rubbish
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 20:58:52 GMT
I’m not convinced any tactics especially work for what we’ve got. I think an experienced bloke might have come up with something but , like Rowett , Jones is learning on the job. I can’t see them coming up with anything that would drastically improve us. There’s no quick fix.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 21:01:58 GMT
I’m not convinced any tactics especially work for what we’ve got. I think an experienced bloke might have come up with something but , like Rowett , Jones is learning on the job. Spot on.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 23, 2019 21:04:17 GMT
The cheap option has cost us. We should have gone for a manager who had a clue what he was doing. There are only a handful of managers, all of which are a million miles out of our league, that would stand any chance of getting an ounce of respect from these players. So we're excusing his shocking sub choices then? Time and again.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Feb 23, 2019 21:05:18 GMT
Cease your post match twaddle and take some responsibility. You're completely out of your depth pal. Ypu don't half talk some shit pal. Whats your suggestion then? Employ our 5TH MANAGER in 13 months? Get behind him or dont. If dont, stay away SGS
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Post by loosestools on Feb 23, 2019 21:05:58 GMT
Give him the tools he needs and we’ll do well. He has got loads of tools already
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 21:07:19 GMT
I think an experienced bloke might have come up with something but , like Rowett , Jones is learning on the job. I can’t see them coming up with anything that would drastically improve us. There’s no quick fix. Work ethic Self belief System to suit players Team bonding Would do for start.
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