|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 9:54:25 GMT
What’s any of that based on though? what the guy with inside info said above. Manager not involved in the financial negotiation or scouting of players. ‘Inside info’. And that’s nailed on is it? |
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2018 9:56:21 GMT
Cartwright is the poison in the club. Openly sharing his views with his mates that he thinks Rowett is the wrong man for the job and won’t back him with his targets as he (Cartwright) thinks we need Premier League players and Rowett wants players he knows to get us out of the Championship. Interesting post |
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 26, 2018 9:57:06 GMT
what the guy with inside info said above. Manager not involved in the financial negotiation or scouting of players. ‘Inside info’. And that’s nailed on is it? no hence why I said if any of that is true my view on Hughes may have been wrong. point being the issue here is the scouting is terrible and due diligence is terrible. Then whoever is approving the financial commitments is also got to be questioned. It would also shed some light on the reluctance of the club to jettison certain players as the people responsible are still at the club. |
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Aug 26, 2018 9:57:20 GMT
What’s any of that based on though? what the guy with inside info said above. Manager not involved in the financial negotiation or scouting of players. He didn't say the manager has no involvement in scouting of players. He probably isn't involved in the initial process but will undoubtedly watch any player who's been recommended and who interests him in the flesh. |
|
|
|
Post by dadofsam on Aug 26, 2018 9:58:06 GMT
I wonder what "fees and commissions" were paid around the Wimmer deal and to whom?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 9:58:56 GMT
Cartwright is the poison in the club. Openly sharing his views with his mates that he thinks Rowett is the wrong man for the job and won’t back him with his targets as he (Cartwright) thinks we need Premier League players and Rowett wants players he knows to get us out of the Championship. Interesting post Only interesting if you believe everything you read. |
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 26, 2018 10:00:26 GMT
what the guy with inside info said above. Manager not involved in the financial negotiation or scouting of players. He didn't say the manager has no involvement in scouting of players. He probably isn't involved in the initial process but will undoubtedly watch any player who's been recommended and who interests him in the flesh. Agree. but I think due diligence around attitudes and that type of thing would be the preserve of the scouting/recruitment arm rather than the first team coach. one thing you have to agree on is that our transfer policy over the last 2 years has been very strange. from the outside at least it looks like we have tried to sign players to score cheap points against Pulis, sign players with little research, handed out lucrative long contracts, signed players when we had no manager in place. it all lools rather odd to me. then we have the rather odd Spinks piece that gets rolled out on the sentinel. Certainly adds interest for the conspiracy theorists. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 10:05:03 GMT
Why should he? He just sweeps up and makes the tea remember, whilst his mate answers the phone. Oh yeah, I forgot. Unless yesterday's win turns into a bit of a good run, then Spinks will have to dust off his, 'how pivotal to our success they are' article! Never underestimate the power of a cup of tea and a well swept floor! |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 10:07:59 GMT
That is some deal the transfer team presented to the manager...18m for a backup centre half. Get their contracts extended. The process is absolutely fine. The manager is part of the transfer team Dave. So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 10:10:14 GMT
The manager is part of the transfer team Dave. So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I agree this is a team that bought a player like Pieters, a guy who can't kick a ball straight. Consistently gives silly fouls away in general and just looks out his depth at this level. They all need replacing. |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 10:12:21 GMT
So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I agree this is a team that bought a player like Pieters, a guy who can't kick a ball straight. Consistently gives silly fouls away in general and just looks out his depth at this level. They all need replacing. In the main, Erik pieters has served us well and at 3m has been a good signing. Interestingly he's another one not signed by the manager. Scouted and almost signed under pulis, only injury prevented his earlier arrival. He certainly wasn't a Mark Hughes signing. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 10:24:30 GMT
The manager is part of the transfer team Dave. So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I’ve never said the process is fine Dave. You keep suggesting I have, but I really haven’t at any stage. I’ve also repeatedly stated I want Scholes and Cartwright gone. Recruitment has been a nightmare. With you and others though, there seems to be a deep suspicion of the process itself, and of any system where the manager isn’t responsible for 100% of the recruitment programme from start to finish. It’s 2018, those days have gone, and similar structures have been very successful elsewhere. Where we’ve gone wrong is with the personnel we’ve trusted those roles to. The process as I understand it is that the manager will have targets and the transfer team will pursue those. The transfer team will also make recommendations to the manager that can be pursued if he’s happy to do so, and he has power of veto. I’m still waiting for a smoking gun to definitively disprove that. You have to believe in an awful lot of coincidences to be convinced otherwise - not least the 180 degree shift in the type of players we’re targeting and the fact that we’ve signed several players Rowett has either worked with before or wanted before. |
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 26, 2018 10:28:59 GMT
So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I’ve never said the process is fine Dave. You keep suggesting I have, but I really haven’t at any stage. I’ve also repeatedly stated I want Scholes and Cartwright gone. Recruitment has been a nightmare. With you and others though, there seems to be a deep suspicion of the process itself, and of any system where the manager isn’t responsible for 100% of the recruitment programme from start to finish. It’s 2018, those days have gone, and similar structures have been very successful elsewhere. Where we’ve gone wrong is with the personnel we’ve trusted those roles to. The process as I understand it is that the manager will have targets and the transfer team will pursue those. The transfer team will also make recommendations to the manager that can be pursued if he’s happy to do so, and he has power of veto. I’m still waiting for a smoking gun to definitively disprove that. You have to believe in an awful lot of coincidences to be convinced otherwise - not least the 180 degree shift in the type of players we’re targeting and the fact that we’ve signed several players Rowett has either worked with before or wanted before. who have we signed that Rowett worked with before? |
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Aug 26, 2018 10:35:26 GMT
I’ve never said the process is fine Dave. You keep suggesting I have, but I really haven’t at any stage. I’ve also repeatedly stated I want Scholes and Cartwright gone. Recruitment has been a nightmare. With you and others though, there seems to be a deep suspicion of the process itself, and of any system where the manager isn’t responsible for 100% of the recruitment programme from start to finish. It’s 2018, those days have gone, and similar structures have been very successful elsewhere. Where we’ve gone wrong is with the personnel we’ve trusted those roles to. The process as I understand it is that the manager will have targets and the transfer team will pursue those. The transfer team will also make recommendations to the manager that can be pursued if he’s happy to do so, and he has power of veto. I’m still waiting for a smoking gun to definitively disprove that. You have to believe in an awful lot of coincidences to be convinced otherwise - not least the 180 degree shift in the type of players we’re targeting and the fact that we’ve signed several players Rowett has either worked with before or wanted before. who have we signed that Rowett worked with before? Ince |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 10:35:56 GMT
So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I’ve never said the process is fine Dave. You keep suggesting I have, but I really haven’t at any stage. I’ve also repeatedly stated I want Scholes and Cartwright gone. Recruitment has been a nightmare. With you and others though, there seems to be a deep suspicion of the process itself, and of any system where the manager isn’t responsible for 100% of the recruitment programme from start to finish. It’s 2018, those days have gone, and similar structures have been very successful elsewhere. Where we’ve gone wrong is with the personnel we’ve trusted those roles to. The process as I understand it is that the manager will have targets and the transfer team will pursue those. The transfer team will also make recommendations to the manager that can be pursued if he’s happy to do so, and he has power of veto. I’m still waiting for a smoking gun to definitively disprove that. You have to believe in an awful lot of coincidences to be convinced otherwise - not least the 180 degree shift in the type of players we’re targeting and the fact that we’ve signed several players Rowett has either worked with before or wanted before. You said yesterday that the process is no different than at any other club. Clearly our process is flawed somewhere be it the process itself, the individuals involved or both. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 10:39:16 GMT
I’ve never said the process is fine Dave. You keep suggesting I have, but I really haven’t at any stage. I’ve also repeatedly stated I want Scholes and Cartwright gone. Recruitment has been a nightmare. With you and others though, there seems to be a deep suspicion of the process itself, and of any system where the manager isn’t responsible for 100% of the recruitment programme from start to finish. It’s 2018, those days have gone, and similar structures have been very successful elsewhere. Where we’ve gone wrong is with the personnel we’ve trusted those roles to. The process as I understand it is that the manager will have targets and the transfer team will pursue those. The transfer team will also make recommendations to the manager that can be pursued if he’s happy to do so, and he has power of veto. I’m still waiting for a smoking gun to definitively disprove that. You have to believe in an awful lot of coincidences to be convinced otherwise - not least the 180 degree shift in the type of players we’re targeting and the fact that we’ve signed several players Rowett has either worked with before or wanted before. You said yesterday that the process is no different than at any other club. Clearly our process is flawed somewhere be it the process itself, the individuals involved or both. Yeah, it’s the individuals involved Dave, including the manager. The transfer team either succeeds as one or fails as one. I’ve said that at literally every stage of this thread and others, you must have kept missing it. |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 10:42:01 GMT
You said yesterday that the process is no different than at any other club. Clearly our process is flawed somewhere be it the process itself, the individuals involved or both. Yeah, it’s the individuals involved Dave, including the manager. The transfer team either succeeds as one or fails as one. I’ve said that at literally every stage of this thread and others, you must have kept missing it. Bringing in 1 player that the manager doesn't want is 1 player too many. Managers have been at odds with the pizza boys, the pizza boys have been at odds with multiple managers. That is usually described as a power struggle and power struggles tend not to have a happy ending...as we've found to our cost. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 10:48:58 GMT
Yeah, it’s the individuals involved Dave, including the manager. The transfer team either succeeds as one or fails as one. I’ve said that at literally every stage of this thread and others, you must have kept missing it. Bringing in 1 player that the manager doesn't want is 1 player too many. Managers have been at odds with the pizza boys, the pizza boys have been at odds with multiple managers. That is usually described as a power struggle and power struggles tend not to have a happy ending...as we've found to our cost. Who doesn’t the manager want, sorry? Yesterday’s man of the match? Did someone else pick that team? |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 11:13:19 GMT
Bringing in 1 player that the manager doesn't want is 1 player too many. Managers have been at odds with the pizza boys, the pizza boys have been at odds with multiple managers. That is usually described as a power struggle and power struggles tend not to have a happy ending...as we've found to our cost. Who doesn’t the manager want, sorry? Yesterday’s man of the match? Did someone else pick that team? Manager in uses players available to him shocker! |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 11:29:04 GMT
Who doesn’t the manager want, sorry? Yesterday’s man of the match? Did someone else pick that team? Manager in uses players available to him shocker! Managers don't play players they 'don't want'. Just because a player isn't identified initially by the manager doesn't mean said manager doesn't want him. N'golo Kante wasn't identified by Claudio Ranieri. Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy weren't identified by Nigel Pearson. |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 11:30:21 GMT
Manager in uses players available to him shocker! Managers don't play players they 'don't want'. Just because a player isn't identified initially by the manager doesn't mean said manager doesn't want him. N'golo Kante wasn't identified by Claudio Ranieri. Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy weren't identified by Nigel Pearson. If you say so. All is well then. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 11:43:57 GMT
Managers don't play players they 'don't want'. Just because a player isn't identified initially by the manager doesn't mean said manager doesn't want him. N'golo Kante wasn't identified by Claudio Ranieri. Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy weren't identified by Nigel Pearson. If you say so. All is well then. Again, something that I haven't said at any stage. |
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 26, 2018 12:02:58 GMT
If you say so. All is well then. Again, something that I haven't said at any stage. I wonder if Dave lists his hobbies in Who's Who as including "putting words in fellow posters' mouths?"  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 12:08:38 GMT
Once in the premier and established, it became plain succession planing became an absolute train wreck. First example was: trying to replace Huth then, Seven Nzonzi.It was an obvious and overt disaster and no one wad held to account. It just continued
|
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Aug 26, 2018 14:52:13 GMT
So you keep saying. We are now on our 4th manager yet the transfer team remains unchanged. I repeat, it is quite a process that sees a manager chasing 2 different front line centre halves before the other members of the transfer team bring him a centre half for the future at 18m and 70k per week. I'm chuffed to bits and comforted that you accept the process is fine. I was clearly labouring under the misapprehension that the process was flawed and the individuals involved were wank. I feel so much better after our dialogue over the past 24 hours I agree this is a team that bought a player like Pieters, a guy who can't kick a ball straight. Consistently gives silly fouls away in general and just looks out his depth at this level. They all need replacing. All this vitriol hurled at Pieters is unfair. He was good defender and did a good job doing what he was brought in to do - play a left back in a back four. Everything went down hill for him and several other players when Hughes switched to three at the back and two wing backs. Pieters then was asked to do job he wasn’t qualified to do, because he’s poor going forward and he cannot cross to save his life. He never recovered from that experience. |
|
|
|
Post by stiggerstackle on Aug 26, 2018 14:55:29 GMT
I agree this is a team that bought a player like Pieters, a guy who can't kick a ball straight. Consistently gives silly fouls away in general and just looks out his depth at this level. They all need replacing. All this vitriol hurled at Pieters is unfair. He was good defender and did a good job doing what he was brought in to do - play a left back in a back four. Everything went down hill for him and several other players when Hughes switched to three at the back and two wing backs. Pieters then was asked to do job he wasn’t qualified to do, because he’s poor going forward and he cannot cross to save his life. He never recovered from that experience. He was our best player for the last half dozen games of last season - quickly forgotten by most. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Aug 26, 2018 15:03:45 GMT
All this vitriol hurled at Pieters is unfair. He was good defender and did a good job doing what he was brought in to do - play a left back in a back four. Everything went down hill for him and several other players when Hughes switched to three at the back and two wing backs. Pieters then was asked to do job he wasn’t qualified to do, because he’s poor going forward and he cannot cross to save his life. He never recovered from that experience. He was our best player for the last half dozen games of last season - quickly forgotten by most. He played well when Staylidis turned up. Now he has no bone fide competition his standards have dropped alarmingly. |
|
|
|
Post by stokiebis on Aug 26, 2018 15:06:35 GMT
All the Hughes haters I reckon he lost the plot because of signings he didn't want n signings he wanted but not getting them. We went from some of the best football we had seen at the ground to dog shite . Too much interference is becoming an all too familiar story Cartwright scholes need to go bye bye
|
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 26, 2018 15:11:18 GMT
Again, something that I haven't said at any stage. I wonder if Dave lists his hobbies in Who's Who as including "putting words in fellow posters' mouths?" Stick to feeding the squirrels you senile old bastard  Rob said yesterday that there is nothing wrong with the process. It's the same as at other clubs. Rob doesn't believe the pizza boys carry too much influence and Rob believes nothing at stoke happens without the manager being 100% involved in the process. Despite Rob believing that the manager sanctions everything Rob still believes that the personnel is a problem and that someone else should be involved. If the manager is the guy that carries all the influence, it makes no difference who occupies the roles of the pizza boys. It's down to the manager surely? |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2018 15:20:53 GMT
I wonder if Dave lists his hobbies in Who's Who as including "putting words in fellow posters' mouths?" Stick to feeding the squirrels you senile old bastard Rob said yesterday that there is nothing wrong with the process. It's the same as at other clubs. Rob doesn't believe the pizza boys carry too much influence and Rob believes nothing at stoke happens without the manager being 100% involved in the process. Despite Rob believing that the manager sanctions everything Rob still believes that the personnel is a problem and that someone else should be involved. If the manager is the guy that carries all the influence, it makes no difference who occupies the roles of the pizza boys. It's down to the manager surely? Again Dave, there’s a fairly hefty chunk of stuff I didn’t actually say there, plus, not for the first time, you’re engaging in some extremely fuzzy, everything is black and white logic. I don’t know how much ‘influence’ the pizza boys hold, what I’m saying is that they don’t force the manager to sign players he doesn’t want, and the loudest voice where transfers are concerned is the manager. And of course it matters who occupies the roles, because a quality scouting network and willingness to explore all markets uncovers more gems doesn’t it? Hence Steve Walsh’s finds helping Leicester to the title, while those supposedly found by Carto struggle to make Huddersfield’s bench. That’s the difference good scouting makes. |
|
