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Post by theglove on Aug 25, 2018 12:11:41 GMT
Whatever the truth, it's becoming abundantly clear that Scholes is an exceptionally powerful individual with influence across all aspects of the operation and is not averse to a clash to get his own way. Absolute power with no accountability. We entirely deserve everything that has happened to us and the misery yet to unfold. We'll wake up one day. There'll only be 11,000 fans their again but I'm sure we'll wake up eventually. Surely the accountability is to the owners? Not necessarily. Psychopaths infiltrate all sorts of establishments and take control from behind the scenes using methods such as blackmail and torture. It's how most Politicians are controlled.
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Post by malisastokie on Aug 25, 2018 12:12:18 GMT
Bauer was spotted by Bowen. Eddie in his post match interview after the Man U game was very load and clear on that. I am not saying there are not issues at the club but they maybe a fair degree of journalists stretching the truth.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 25, 2018 12:13:36 GMT
Whatever the truth, it's becoming abundantly clear that Scholes is an exceptionally powerful individual with influence across all aspects of the operation and is not averse to a clash to get his own way. Absolute power with no accountability. We entirely deserve everything that has happened to us and the misery yet to unfold. We'll wake up one day. There'll only be 11,000 fans their again but I'm sure we'll wake up eventually. No momo we don’t deserve this
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 25, 2018 12:17:38 GMT
Absolutely. We've deserved everything we've got and the pain yet to come. That Coates boys statement in May is starting to sound more and more like a sick joke with every passing day I think of Scholes as Coates' hatchet man. Its why he keeps his job. They may be his actions, but not always his decisions. Within large businesses there are always these types the shop floor wonder how they keep their jobs as clearly they aren't up to it but they have worked their way close to the senior people and now will do or say whatever those senior people want doing making it easier for them to sit back and seem anonymous or in stokes case oblivious! Or in some case those who've worked their way up have done so by telling the owners exactly what they like to hear and embellishing the truth or constructing fear inducing scenarios and saying they can stop or sort it, it's amazing what some people will do to stay at that top table.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 25, 2018 12:21:43 GMT
Whatever the truth, it's becoming abundantly clear that Scholes is an exceptionally powerful individual with influence across all aspects of the operation and is not averse to a clash to get his own way. Absolute power with no accountability. We entirely deserve everything that has happened to us and the misery yet to unfold. We'll wake up one day. There'll only be 11,000 fans their again but I'm sure we'll wake up eventually. No momo we don’t deserve this We do. We still have people sticking up for nimrod and the telephonist to this day. We've happy clapped ourselves in to this cesspit of failure.
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Post by onefatcopper on Aug 25, 2018 12:27:06 GMT
I think of Scholes as Coates' hatchet man. Its why he keeps his job. They may be his actions, but not always his decisions. Within large businesses there are always these types the shop floor wonder how they keep their jobs as clearly they aren't up to it but they have worked their way close to the senior people and now will do or say whatever those senior people want doing making it easier for them to sit back and seem anonymous or in stokes case oblivious! Or in some case those who've worked their way up have done so by telling the owners exactly what they like to hear and embellishing the truth or constructing fear inducing scenarios and saying they can stop or sort it, it's amazing what some people will do to stay at that top table. Give me a scenario how this could be playing out at Stoke and if so who would be the villain of the piece ? Don’t be afraid to name names,your amoung friends.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 25, 2018 12:35:15 GMT
Is it that simple? We had three excellent years under Hughes while 'the process' was very much in place? Are we saying Scholes had no involvement in contract negotiations before 'the process'? The manager has actually been very well backed this season. This, I very much agree with. so what has changed, what has gone wrong with the process? Hughes couldn't have picked good players then all of a sudden started packing bad one after bad one. Additionally the transfer team couldn't have gone from getting good deals for good players, to getting awful value and bad contract decisions. Is there some dogdyness with agents etc.? or do the gruesome twosome genuinely believe they are so good at what they do they are untouchable? The only thing remaining since our glory days are Scholes and Cartwright. If the mistakes had stopped with Hughes leaving, you can blame him totally but the mistakes are continuing, so who do you blame now? What happened was Nzonzi left and we got into a tailspin trying to replace him that we never recovered from. Every window got us deeper and deeper into the mess.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 25, 2018 12:35:28 GMT
Within large businesses there are always these types the shop floor wonder how they keep their jobs as clearly they aren't up to it but they have worked their way close to the senior people and now will do or say whatever those senior people want doing making it easier for them to sit back and seem anonymous or in stokes case oblivious! Or in some case those who've worked their way up have done so by telling the owners exactly what they like to hear and embellishing the truth or constructing fear inducing scenarios and saying they can stop or sort it, it's amazing what some people will do to stay at that top table. Give me a scenario how this could be playing out at Stoke and if so who would be the villain of the piece ? Don’t be afraid to name names,your amoung friends. Scholes is very very close to Peter he will do whatever Peter wants he may say I disagree but no doubt he does what he asks however he probably thinks he should have even more of the kudos and resents getting the shit end of the stick, but he’s worked himself up to be Peters confident. he won’t get another job as good as this so he gets Cartwright in as HIS flunky to do his dirty work and back him up I’m not sure how John Coates fits in best ask Professor Plum!!! Come on you know how it works use a little imagination it’s written all over the club if you look closely enough
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 12:36:18 GMT
Until they are gone or until Cartwright goes and scholes reverts back to being an accountant the manager doesn't have a chance. Did you see scholes words on leaving Preston? Posted by Paulspencer? He's got his dream job and everything that has gone on at this club over the last 2 years has his grubby mits all over it. Is it that simple? We had three excellent years under Hughes while 'the process' was very much in place? Are we saying Scholes had no involvement in contract negotiations before 'the process'? The manager has actually been very well backed this season. The manager has been backed with the same conviction as mick mills was when he was given 1m to spend in 1989. Back then everything we spent we recouped with the sale of beagrie. This time we've spent what we recouped from sales and have butland waiting in the wings to go if necessary. Oh, and since the process last worked we've had 3 managers. Last time I looked we'd only had 1CEO and 1 technical director.
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Post by nottspotter on Aug 25, 2018 12:36:55 GMT
I think it's a bit like River Dance only different. Evidently 😆
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 25, 2018 12:40:37 GMT
Is it that simple? We had three excellent years under Hughes while 'the process' was very much in place? Are we saying Scholes had no involvement in contract negotiations before 'the process'? The manager has actually been very well backed this season. The manager has been backed with the same conviction as mick mills was when he was given 1m to spend in 1989. Back then everything we spent we recouped with the sale of beagrie. This time we've spent what we recouped from sales and have butland waiting in the wings to go if necessary. Oh, and since the process last worked we've had 3 managers. Last time I looked we'd only had 1CEO and 1 technical director. We’ve spent more than most sides in the league. There are gaps and areas to address, but more than enough for the manager to work with in terms of making us competitive. I don’t know what your point is with the last sentence? I’ve said I think they should have gone as well, but are you saying the managers had no involvement?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 12:52:27 GMT
The manager has been backed with the same conviction as mick mills was when he was given 1m to spend in 1989. Back then everything we spent we recouped with the sale of beagrie. This time we've spent what we recouped from sales and have butland waiting in the wings to go if necessary. Oh, and since the process last worked we've had 3 managers. Last time I looked we'd only had 1CEO and 1 technical director. We’ve spent more than most sides in the league. There are gaps and areas to address, but more than enough for the manager to work with in terms of making us competitive. I don’t know what your point is with the last sentence? I’ve said I think they should have gone as well, but are you saying the managers had no involvement? I'm saying over the years the influence of the comedy duo has clearly increased and as their influence has increased the more we've turned to shit. I'm saying they have far more power and influence than you are prepared to accept.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 25, 2018 12:57:01 GMT
We’ve spent more than most sides in the league. There are gaps and areas to address, but more than enough for the manager to work with in terms of making us competitive. I don’t know what your point is with the last sentence? I’ve said I think they should have gone as well, but are you saying the managers had no involvement? I'm saying over the years the influence of the comedy duo has clearly increased and as their influence has increased the more we've turned to shit. I'm saying they have far more power and influence than you are prepared to accept. In what regard, specifically relating to recruitment?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 13:00:51 GMT
I'm saying over the years the influence of the comedy duo has clearly increased and as their influence has increased the more we've turned to shit. I'm saying they have far more power and influence than you are prepared to accept. In what regard, specifically relating to recruitment? Everything to do with the playing staff be that incoming, outgoings or contract extensions.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 25, 2018 13:10:47 GMT
In what regard, specifically relating to recruitment? Everything to do with the playing staff be that incoming, outgoings or contract extensions. So they’re signing all the players are they?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 25, 2018 13:14:54 GMT
I don’t think it matters when it was written Dave. Did Scholes bring Pennant on at West Ham? Or against Everton when he’d been on the pop the night before? What's that got to do with the price of bacon? The manager has to use his squad whether he signed them or not. We've got players on long extended contracts who we can't or won't get shut of. 3 managers have told us that they aren't responsible or involved in contract negotiations (Hughes, pulis and rowett), we've had players praising previous managers yet at the same time questioning the recruitment process, and now we have a former player saying his new manager didn't make the decision to keep him. Oh...and etebo clearly wasn't a rowett signing and the decision to extend bauer's contract clearly wasn't his either yet he's used both sparingly just as Hughes used pennant sparingly. We also know that Bauer signed without the knowledge of a new manager, that the manager didn't sign badou and that the transfer team, including or excluding Lambert, felt we were ok for strikers in January. If I ever commit murder I hope you are on the jury. Unless the deceased can tell me it was the accused, it wasn't the accused. But the Chairman in Ianuary said we tried very hard to sign a new striker so how do we know the transfer team felt we were okay? In a business with sole owners, no executive will have the power people keep ascribing to the CEO unless the owners totally delegate authority and we have no evidence this is the case
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 13:41:36 GMT
Everything to do with the playing staff be that incoming, outgoings or contract extensions. So they’re signing all the players are they? The evidence is mounting up that the Pizza boys are far too influential in transfer dealings. I'm happy to see it, you don't think there is anything to see. We'll have to agree to differ I'm afraid. See you in league 1
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 25, 2018 13:45:46 GMT
So they’re signing all the players are they? The evidence is mounting up that the Pizza boys are far too influential in transfer dealings. I'm happy to see it, you don't think there is anything to see. We'll have to agree to differ I'm afraid. See you in league 1 I’m happy for some actual evidence to change my mind Dave. Some specifics would be great.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 13:53:07 GMT
The evidence is mounting up that the Pizza boys are far too influential in transfer dealings. I'm happy to see it, you don't think there is anything to see. We'll have to agree to differ I'm afraid. See you in league 1 I’m happy for some actual evidence to change my mind Dave. Some specifics would be great. You refuse to see it bud so what really is the point. Pennant was given a contract when the manager didn't want him (from the player himself). Butland and shea signed without the blessing of the them manager Then manager pleading for the focus to be on HIS targets Bauer signed with no manager in situ Badou signed without the blessing of the manager Staflydiis signed with no input from the manager No striker signed in January because we really tried to sign the only striker in the world that was available at that time - Danny ings Failing to sign Keane, macguire and ending I with the Pizza boys suggestion of Kevin wimmer Bauer signing a new 5 year contract with no input from the manager The manager playing no part in rejecting bids for cameron, shawcross, Allen, badou and butland How much evidence do you want to ignore or overlook as being insignificant? Add to that scholes own comments as to why he left Preston and how he believed his role should work together with what I've been told by numerous contacts I have or had that I trust, then I'm more than comfortable with the evidence I've seen in many quarters
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 14:01:07 GMT
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!
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Post by Tubes on Aug 25, 2018 14:04:34 GMT
A few brief points about how this kind of stuff works, from someone who spent a few years on the inside.
A) the CEO is generally not making any decisions on player acquisitions, other than setting financial and budgetary restrictions. To paint Scholes as the boogy man in the situation is a bit naive... we are where we are through the bad player acquisition of the Hughes era. I know everyone wants someone to blame for the current state of things, but try to separate the business side of the club and the football side. Scholes is far more likely to be dealing with ticket pricing / club operational issues than he is scouting players.
B) generally speaking, and I haven't spoken to anyone at Stoke in a couple of year on this, the recruitment staff (i.e. Cartwright) are tasked with finding players who meet the managers needs. The manager comes out and says "I need a ball winning midfielder" and it's the job of the recruitment team including the scouts to recommend players, and to actually go out and do the work of negotiating contracts etc (there is absolutely no reason the manager should be involved in negotiating contracts, this is a business function of the club)
I spoke to Cartwright a few year ago during the Hughes era, and one of his comments that struck me was that he was very worried about Hughes preference for flair players, and he thought it could eventually damage the spirit of the lockerroom (something which clearly came to pass)
Take that for what you will.
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 25, 2018 14:11:41 GMT
I’m happy for some actual evidence to change my mind Dave. Some specifics would be great. You refuse to see it bud so what really is the point. Pennant was given a contract when the manager didn't want him (from the player himself). Butland and shea signed without the blessing of the them manager Then manager pleading for the focus to be on HIS targets Bauer signed with no manager in situ Badou signed without the blessing of the manager Staflydiis signed with no input from the manager No striker signed in January because we really tried to sign the only striker in the world that was available at that time - Danny ings Failing to sign Keane, macguire and ending I with the Pizza boys suggestion of Kevin wimmer Bauer signing a new 5 year contract with no input from the manager The manager playing no part in rejecting bids for cameron, shawcross, Allen, badou and butland How much evidence do you want to ignore or overlook as being insignificant? Add to that scholes own comments as to why he left Preston and how he believed his role should work together with what I've been told by numerous contacts I have or had that I trust, then I'm more than comfortable with the evidence I've seen in many quarters There's also a few little snippets at the end of the Mama Sidibe autobiography where he assumed Pulis knew he was on his way out because he hadn't spoken to him about a contract but asked if the club had taken care of him. I believe that we released our retained list for that year without a manager in place - Delap, Whitehead and a couple of others were all released.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 25, 2018 14:16:07 GMT
I heard that when Scholes heard people were enjoying the streaming service he said. "Switch it off!"
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 25, 2018 17:10:08 GMT
I think it's a bit like River Dance only different. Evidently 😆 Shirley you mean evidantantly?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 25, 2018 17:11:35 GMT
Gotta give Scholes a 10/10 for the line up today.
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Post by colnepotter on Aug 25, 2018 17:41:52 GMT
A few brief points about how this kind of stuff works, from someone who spent a few years on the inside. A) the CEO is generally not making any decisions on player acquisitions, other than setting financial and budgetary restrictions. To paint Scholes as the boogy man in the situation is a bit naive... we are where we are through the bad player acquisition of the Hughes era. I know everyone wants someone to blame for the current state of things, but try to separate the business side of the club and the football side. Scholes is far more likely to be dealing with ticket pricing / club operational issues than he is scouting players. B) generally speaking, and I haven't spoken to anyone at Stoke in a couple of year on this, the recruitment staff (i.e. Cartwright) are tasked with finding players who meet the managers needs. The manager comes out and says "I need a ball winning midfielder" and it's the job of the recruitment team including the scouts to recommend players, and to actually go out and do the work of negotiating contracts etc (there is absolutely no reason the manager should be involved in negotiating contracts, this is a business function of the club) I spoke to Cartwright a few year ago during the Hughes era, and one of his comments that struck me was that he was very worried about Hughes preference for flair players, and he thought it could eventually damage the spirit of the lockerroom (something which clearly came to pass) Take that for what you will. [ Thanks for that. At last bit of common sense. Sadly a lot of the nutters have pissed off tonight. But one defeat and they'll be back no doubt!
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Post by onefatcopper on Aug 25, 2018 18:04:01 GMT
A few brief points about how this kind of stuff works, from someone who spent a few years on the inside. A) the CEO is generally not making any decisions on player acquisitions, other than setting financial and budgetary restrictions. To paint Scholes as the boogy man in the situation is a bit naive... we are where we are through the bad player acquisition of the Hughes era. I know everyone wants someone to blame for the current state of things, but try to separate the business side of the club and the football side. Scholes is far more likely to be dealing with ticket pricing / club operational issues than he is scouting players. B) generally speaking, and I haven't spoken to anyone at Stoke in a couple of year on this, the recruitment staff (i.e. Cartwright) are tasked with finding players who meet the managers needs. The manager comes out and says "I need a ball winning midfielder" and it's the job of the recruitment team including the scouts to recommend players, and to actually go out and do the work of negotiating contracts etc (there is absolutely no reason the manager should be involved in negotiating contracts, this is a business function of the club) I spoke to Cartwright a few year ago during the Hughes era, and one of his comments that struck me was that he was very worried about Hughes preference for flair players, and he thought it could eventually damage the spirit of the lockerroom (something which clearly came to pass) Take that for what you will. [ Thanks for that. At last bit of common sense. Sadly a lot of the nutters have pissed off tonight. But one defeat and they'll be back no doubt! If Scholes is the financial guru, why have we lost a lot of our long term sponsors/partners with worldwide recognition & appeal only to be replaced by at best sponsors/partners who do not have the same Kudos or financial strength ?
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Post by colnepotter on Aug 25, 2018 18:16:49 GMT
[ Thanks for that. At last bit of common sense. Sadly a lot of the nutters have pissed off tonight. But one defeat and they'll be back no doubt! If Scholes is the financial guru, why have we lost a lot of our long term sponsors/partners with worldwide recognition & appeal only to be replaced by at best sponsors/partners who do not have the same Kudos or financial strength ? Ferfuxache.....another paid up member of the flat earth society
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 25, 2018 18:22:00 GMT
If Scholes is the financial guru, why have we lost a lot of our long term sponsors/partners with worldwide recognition & appeal only to be replaced by at best sponsors/partners who do not have the same Kudos or financial strength ? Ferfuxache.....another paid up member of the flat earth society Where in colne are you colnepotter? I'm in barrowford.
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Post by nottspotter on Aug 25, 2018 18:24:19 GMT
Shirley you mean evidantantly? Evidenentendencely you don’t know what I mean to say. And stop calling me Shirley
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