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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:22:17 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 24, 2018 8:22:17 GMT
He comes out with the same sort of shit about Berahino !, he can't seem to get his head around the simple facts they are both shit with shit attitudes and both are shit expensive signings, there a few on here who seem to agree with him though you really couldn't make their shit up. Arnie was written off about 15 times within the first 24 months of him being here, as was Shaqiri, people wanted rid of Bojan within 2 bad performances. All 3 turned out to be fantastic players. Rinse and repeat for several other players we've signed. You'll forgive me if I'm a bit more reluctant to join the weird Stoke fan cult of hating anyone who isn't 6 foot and doesn't run around like a headless chicken. No you're more of a slag the club/manager off sort of man arent you?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:27:46 GMT
Both of those clubs gave him 6 months. In countries he's just moved to, where he doesn't know the language, and clearly would take time to settle. And honestly, it might be an unpopular opinion but I think he had more good games than bad for us. He's underwhelmed at (arguably) two, both of whom gave him almost no time. Surely for the money we paid he's worth a longer shot, because he's clearly got talent. You're just flat out making excuses for him now. He's a grown up. Other players seem to manage the transition ok. He's underwhelmed at three. Porto, here and Toulouse. Surely you can appreciate there are reasons why he frustrates fans and reasons why he's not in the team? And that he has responsibility for them? He's another one, like Berahino and Bojan, who seems to get better in absentia in some fans' eyes. The reality doesn't match the vision. Just because we paid big fees for Imbula and Saido doesn't mean they're automatically 'worth a go'. They have to earn it. I can't agree he had more good games than bad because he didn't. If he did, he'd still be here contributing to the squad. It was in Hughes' interest for him to succeed as his failure is a sizeable nail in his coffin. The faults in Imbula's game are too critical to make him a viable option. You can't play in his position and not do any defensive work and he sure as shit isn't a number 10. Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:33:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:33:26 GMT
Arnie was written off about 15 times within the first 24 months of him being here, as was Shaqiri, people wanted rid of Bojan within 2 bad performances. All 3 turned out to be fantastic players. Rinse and repeat for several other players we've signed. You'll forgive me if I'm a bit more reluctant to join the weird Stoke fan cult of hating anyone who isn't 6 foot and doesn't run around like a headless chicken. No you're more of a slag the club/manager off sort of man arent you? If I think the manager has done wrong, yes. I'm not saying players are always perfect. But I don't see why they weren't given more of a chance, especially when we've been so shite with the players we've had.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 8:39:43 GMT
You're just flat out making excuses for him now. He's a grown up. Other players seem to manage the transition ok. He's underwhelmed at three. Porto, here and Toulouse. Surely you can appreciate there are reasons why he frustrates fans and reasons why he's not in the team? And that he has responsibility for them? He's another one, like Berahino and Bojan, who seems to get better in absentia in some fans' eyes. The reality doesn't match the vision. Just because we paid big fees for Imbula and Saido doesn't mean they're automatically 'worth a go'. They have to earn it. I can't agree he had more good games than bad because he didn't. If he did, he'd still be here contributing to the squad. It was in Hughes' interest for him to succeed as his failure is a sizeable nail in his coffin. The faults in Imbula's game are too critical to make him a viable option. You can't play in his position and not do any defensive work and he sure as shit isn't a number 10. Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken. Sorry, again that's a wilfully one-eyed view of what actually happened that gives no responsibility whatsoever to the players themselves. Of course it's a challenge to adapt. Imbula has failed now at three clubs to do that. And sorry, work rate is down to him, not anybody else. Nobody can make him run or track back, and decision making can be encouraged to improve but it's ultimately up to him. He isn't a hard worker and his position is one where you 100% have to be in the Premier League. We can't carry a passenger in the engine room. His performances have 'earned' him exactly what he's ended up with. Again, at what point do you give up on him? Bojan wasn't used at number 10 because he wasn't performing in the role. He was anonymous and lightweight. He had his moments here and there and scored a few pens and the goal at West Ham, but he's hardly ever come close to looking like the player he was before his injury even in his better games. The false nine run was as good as he's got post-injury. He didn't even stand out against Rochdale this season. Berahino looks completely shot. When you struggle to even look the part against Bury and Coventry, you know it's not going well. He offers nothing that our current mediocre crop of strikers don't have more of.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:40:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by Kjones9 on Jan 24, 2018 8:40:17 GMT
No you're more of a slag the club/manager off sort of man arent you? If I think the manager has done wrong, yes. I'm not saying players are always perfect. But I don't see why they weren't given more of a chance, especially when we've been so shite with the players we've had. You didn't give the new manager a chance nor the club at that appointment.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:45:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by GrahamHyde on Jan 24, 2018 8:45:12 GMT
Would love him back but isn't going to happen.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:46:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:46:24 GMT
If I think the manager has done wrong, yes. I'm not saying players are always perfect. But I don't see why they weren't given more of a chance, especially when we've been so shite with the players we've had. You didn't give the new manager a chance nor the club at that appointment. Where's that come from? Is it not allowed for me to not think Lambert was the right man? Should I pretend I wanted him all along and he's the bestest manager there is? I'm behind Lambert fully now he's here and want him to prove me wrong. But I'm not going to pretend we've got the best manager we could have got.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 8:54:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:54:28 GMT
Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken. Sorry, again that's a wilfully one-eyed view of what actually happened that gives no responsibility whatsoever to the players themselves. Of course it's a challenge to adapt. Imbula has failed now at three clubs to do that. And sorry, work rate is down to him, not anybody else. Nobody can make him run or track back, and decision making can be encouraged to improve but it's ultimately up to him. He isn't a hard worker and his position is one where you 100% have to be in the Premier League. We can't carry a passenger in the engine room. His performances have 'earned' him exactly what he's ended up with. Again, at what point do you give up on him? Bojan wasn't used at number 10 because he wasn't performing in the role. He was anonymous and lightweight. He had his moments here and there and scored a few pens and the goal at West Ham, but he's hardly ever come close to looking like the player he was before his injury even in his better games. The false nine run was as good as he's got post-injury. He didn't even stand out against Rochdale this season. Berahino looks completely shot. When you struggle to even look the part against Bury and Coventry, you know it's not going well. He offers nothing that our current mediocre crop of strikers don't have more of. Well that's a view of blaming him personally rather than viewing him as a player. As a player, the reward we get if someone gets him working is far more than the risk of trying him out for a few games. If a manager can get him loving football again, as at Marseille (i think it was marseille) then I have no doubt his work rate would improve massively. We're already carrying a passenger in Fletcher, and defensively a passenger in Adam too. When we have a midfield that we're happy with, then give up on him. He was second top scorer that season, behind Arnie, was dropped after two goals in two games and never started more than 2 games in a row since April 2016. The pre-injury thing is bollocks, he was better in that 2015/16 season with Arnie and Shaq next to him. I thought he was decent against Rochdale, but thought his mind was elsewhere, rightly or wrongly, because he knew that for the second time, Hughes was lying about him getting a chance. I disagree that he was anonymous, I thought he was fine in the 4 games he played last season, Leicester especially he was fantastic. He was dropped again the next week. Berahino hasn't played enough football to be judged. Several players struggled against Coventry.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 24, 2018 8:55:18 GMT
You didn't give the new manager a chance nor the club at that appointment. Where's that come from? Is it not allowed for me to not think Lambert was the right man? Should I pretend I wanted him all along and he's the bestest manager there is? I'm behind Lambert fully now he's here and want him to prove me wrong. But I'm not going to pretend we've got the best manager we could have got. No just a bit hypocritical that you're there preaching that players (who have been given a chance and mostly failed) should be given a chance when you were not willing (and very vocal about it) to give our new manager one. And that last paragraph is very noble of you, your award is in the post.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 9:04:23 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 9:04:23 GMT
Sorry, again that's a wilfully one-eyed view of what actually happened that gives no responsibility whatsoever to the players themselves. Of course it's a challenge to adapt. Imbula has failed now at three clubs to do that. And sorry, work rate is down to him, not anybody else. Nobody can make him run or track back, and decision making can be encouraged to improve but it's ultimately up to him. He isn't a hard worker and his position is one where you 100% have to be in the Premier League. We can't carry a passenger in the engine room. His performances have 'earned' him exactly what he's ended up with. Again, at what point do you give up on him? Bojan wasn't used at number 10 because he wasn't performing in the role. He was anonymous and lightweight. He had his moments here and there and scored a few pens and the goal at West Ham, but he's hardly ever come close to looking like the player he was before his injury even in his better games. The false nine run was as good as he's got post-injury. He didn't even stand out against Rochdale this season. Berahino looks completely shot. When you struggle to even look the part against Bury and Coventry, you know it's not going well. He offers nothing that our current mediocre crop of strikers don't have more of. Well that's a view of blaming him personally rather than viewing him as a player. As a player, the reward we get if someone gets him working is far more than the risk of trying him out for a few games. If a manager can get him loving football again, as at Marseille (i think it was marseille) then I have no doubt his work rate would improve massively. We're already carrying a passenger in Fletcher, and defensively a passenger in Adam too. When we have a midfield that we're happy with, then give up on him. He was second top scorer that season, behind Arnie, was dropped after two goals in two games and never started more than 2 games in a row since April 2016. The pre-injury thing is bollocks, he was better in that 2015/16 season with Arnie and Shaq next to him. I thought he was decent against Rochdale, but thought his mind was elsewhere, rightly or wrongly, because he knew that for the second time, Hughes was lying about him getting a chance. I disagree that he was anonymous, I thought he was fine in the 4 games he played last season, Leicester especially he was fantastic. He was dropped again the next week. Berahino hasn't played enough football to be judged. Several players struggled against Coventry. So he carries no responsibility for getting himself motivated? Why can't he get himself working for 60-70k a week? You can't teach someone who won't be taught. He's a grown man and a handsomely remunerated one at that. The pre-injury thing is not bollocks. Compare his performances before that, when he looked one of the best players in the entire league, and tell me how often he's produced performances like that since? Beyond the three false nine games I'm struggling to think of one. You seem happy to judge and wildly exaggerate the few bits of positive stuff Berahino's done, seems only the poor stuff can't be judged.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 24, 2018 9:58:52 GMT
Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken. Sorry, again that's a wilfully one-eyed view of what actually happened that gives no responsibility whatsoever to the players themselves. Of course it's a challenge to adapt. Imbula has failed now at three clubs to do that. And sorry, work rate is down to him, not anybody else. Nobody can make him run or track back, and decision making can be encouraged to improve but it's ultimately up to him. He isn't a hard worker and his position is one where you 100% have to be in the Premier League. We can't carry a passenger in the engine room. His performances have 'earned' him exactly what he's ended up with. Again, at what point do you give up on him? Bojan wasn't used at number 10 because he wasn't performing in the role. He was anonymous and lightweight. He had his moments here and there and scored a few pens and the goal at West Ham, but he's hardly ever come close to looking like the player he was before his injury even in his better games. The false nine run was as good as he's got post-injury. He didn't even stand out against Rochdale this season. Berahino looks completely shot. When you struggle to even look the part against Bury and Coventry, you know it's not going well. He offers nothing that our current mediocre crop of strikers don't have more of. In an ideal world, they would all get a clean sheet review by Lambo.
In the real world, that may or may not happen and that, itself, may depend on the advice he has been given from inside the club.
If it did happen, and given everything else that would inevitably 'hit' a manager as of day 1, I can understand why Lambo didn't appear to want to make it P1.
Of the three, GI seems the most intriguing if nothing else. Sadly, the consensus seems to be that Bodger has lost it post injury. SB always was just a plain and simple bad buy in my opinion (at the time).
But GI is a genuine top tier talent that, for whatever reason, is just not firing.
A lot of what you say can justifiably be thrown at him and will stick but, if I was Lambo, he's the one I'd want a look at because he's that good (or could be).
Not sure if that would entail coaching, bollocking, a sports psychologist or just wiring the fucker to the mains but with an £18m loss or, if it did work, a double your money profit potentially on the line, I'd definitely be trying.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 9:59:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 9:59:29 GMT
Where's that come from? Is it not allowed for me to not think Lambert was the right man? Should I pretend I wanted him all along and he's the bestest manager there is? I'm behind Lambert fully now he's here and want him to prove me wrong. But I'm not going to pretend we've got the best manager we could have got. No just a bit hypocritical that you're there preaching that players (who have been given a chance and mostly failed) should be given a chance when you were not willing (and very vocal about it) to give our new manager one. And that last paragraph is very noble of you, your award is in the post. When have I ever said that I'm not giving Lambert a chance?? ???
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 10:03:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 10:03:42 GMT
Well that's a view of blaming him personally rather than viewing him as a player. As a player, the reward we get if someone gets him working is far more than the risk of trying him out for a few games. If a manager can get him loving football again, as at Marseille (i think it was marseille) then I have no doubt his work rate would improve massively. We're already carrying a passenger in Fletcher, and defensively a passenger in Adam too. When we have a midfield that we're happy with, then give up on him. He was second top scorer that season, behind Arnie, was dropped after two goals in two games and never started more than 2 games in a row since April 2016. The pre-injury thing is bollocks, he was better in that 2015/16 season with Arnie and Shaq next to him. I thought he was decent against Rochdale, but thought his mind was elsewhere, rightly or wrongly, because he knew that for the second time, Hughes was lying about him getting a chance. I disagree that he was anonymous, I thought he was fine in the 4 games he played last season, Leicester especially he was fantastic. He was dropped again the next week. Berahino hasn't played enough football to be judged. Several players struggled against Coventry. So he carries no responsibility for getting himself motivated? Why can't he get himself working for 60-70k a week? You can't teach someone who won't be taught. He's a grown man and a handsomely remunerated one at that. The pre-injury thing is not bollocks. Compare his performances before that, when he looked one of the best players in the entire league, and tell me how often he's produced performances like that since? Beyond the three false nine games I'm struggling to think of one. You seem happy to judge and wildly exaggerate the few bits of positive stuff Berahino's done, seems only the poor stuff can't be judged. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that motivation may come from Lambert, and if it does, he'll be a fantastic player. Again, in 2015/16 he was absolutely crucial in our run of form that had us 5 points of 4th with 7 games to go. He/Arnie/Shaq are the best attacking trio together that i've seen at Stoke. He may not have been as much the main man, but he was exceptional throughout that season. He was poor against Everton and Coventry, yes. As for last season, he didn't look ready or sharp. Again, it's not black or white though, Hughes himself said that we needed to judge him this season when he was fit, then proceeded to ignore him. I see no reason why fans would be annoyed at the thought of them getting a second chance should Lambert decide they're worth it.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 11:24:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Kjones9 on Jan 24, 2018 11:24:33 GMT
No just a bit hypocritical that you're there preaching that players (who have been given a chance and mostly failed) should be given a chance when you were not willing (and very vocal about it) to give our new manager one. And that last paragraph is very noble of you, your award is in the post. When have I ever said that I'm not giving Lambert a chance?? ??? Probably not in those words but you were very disparaging towards him and the club when you were having your toy throwing foot stamping session. But you probably threw a 'hope he proves me wrong' in there so it's alright 🙄
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 11:29:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by larstoke on Jan 24, 2018 11:29:48 GMT
Maybe Lambert can get something out of him. Worth a go
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 11:30:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 11:30:10 GMT
When have I ever said that I'm not giving Lambert a chance?? ??? Probably not in those words but you were very disparaging towards him and the club when you were having your toy throwing foot stamping session. But you probably threw a 'hope he proves me wrong' in there so it's alright 🙄 Are you saying you were happy we went for Paul Lambert? Of course I wasn't disparaging to him, it's not his fault he got hired and I wish him well, I was disparaging to the board for hiring an unambitious appointment and I stand well by it. I also will back Lambert to succeed as long as he is manager. Grow up a bit, you can support the club/manager and still think they've made a poor decision.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 24, 2018 12:10:44 GMT
Probably not in those words but you were very disparaging towards him and the club when you were having your toy throwing foot stamping session. But you probably threw a 'hope he proves me wrong' in there so it's alright 🙄 Are you saying you were happy we went for Paul Lambert? Of course I wasn't disparaging to him, it's not his fault he got hired and I wish him well, I was disparaging to the board for hiring an unambitious appointment and I stand well by it. I also will back Lambert to succeed as long as he is manager. Grow up a bit, you can support the club/manager and still think they've made a poor decision. Me grow up? Ha! Pick your toys up and learn your lesson kid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 12:20:20 GMT
Are you saying you were happy we went for Paul Lambert? Of course I wasn't disparaging to him, it's not his fault he got hired and I wish him well, I was disparaging to the board for hiring an unambitious appointment and I stand well by it. I also will back Lambert to succeed as long as he is manager. Grow up a bit, you can support the club/manager and still think they've made a poor decision. Me grow up? Ha! Pick your toys up and learn your lesson kid. I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/NTFbVzLgg5yT6XplS6rX.gif)
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Post by raythesailor on Jan 24, 2018 12:39:01 GMT
I ceartainly can see nothing wrong with Lambert inviting Imbula and his father/agent to Clayton Wood for a full and frank discussion about his attitude to his employers and how he would feel about coming back.
It doesn’t mean we have to have him.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 12:42:20 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 12:42:20 GMT
He comes out with the same sort of shit about Berahino !, he can't seem to get his head around the simple facts they are both shit with shit attitudes and both are shit expensive signings, there a few on here who seem to agree with him though you really couldn't make their shit up. Arnie was written off about 15 times within the first 24 months of him being here, as was Shaqiri, people wanted rid of Bojan within 2 bad performances. All 3 turned out to be fantastic players. Rinse and repeat for several other players we've signed. You'll forgive me if I'm a bit more reluctant to join the weird Stoke fan cult of hating anyone who isn't 6 foot and doesn't run around like a headless chicken. Arnie was and is a class player, Shaq is a brilliant footballer when fit and can be arsed, Bojan was very good until he got injured, Imbula is shit so is Berahino it's not rocket science is it really shit is shit however you try to cover it up the smell still hangs around these two along with Wimper have stunk the place out.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 12:48:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 12:48:17 GMT
Arnie was written off about 15 times within the first 24 months of him being here, as was Shaqiri, people wanted rid of Bojan within 2 bad performances. All 3 turned out to be fantastic players. Rinse and repeat for several other players we've signed. You'll forgive me if I'm a bit more reluctant to join the weird Stoke fan cult of hating anyone who isn't 6 foot and doesn't run around like a headless chicken. Arnie was and is a class player, Shaq is a brilliant footballer when fit and can be arsed, Bojan was very good until he got injured, Imbula is shit so is Berahino it's not rocket science is it really shit is shit however you try to cover it up the smell still hangs around these two along with Wimper have stunk the place out. Yep. You're right. Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer have never shown any talent whatsoever. The performances of the players on the pitch have stunk the place out, not the ones who barely play. Direct your weird, obsessive anger towards them instead if you're that arsed.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 12:57:22 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 12:57:22 GMT
Sorry, again that's a wilfully one-eyed view of what actually happened that gives no responsibility whatsoever to the players themselves. Of course it's a challenge to adapt. Imbula has failed now at three clubs to do that. And sorry, work rate is down to him, not anybody else. Nobody can make him run or track back, and decision making can be encouraged to improve but it's ultimately up to him. He isn't a hard worker and his position is one where you 100% have to be in the Premier League. We can't carry a passenger in the engine room. His performances have 'earned' him exactly what he's ended up with. Again, at what point do you give up on him? Bojan wasn't used at number 10 because he wasn't performing in the role. He was anonymous and lightweight. He had his moments here and there and scored a few pens and the goal at West Ham, but he's hardly ever come close to looking like the player he was before his injury even in his better games. The false nine run was as good as he's got post-injury. He didn't even stand out against Rochdale this season. Berahino looks completely shot. When you struggle to even look the part against Bury and Coventry, you know it's not going well. He offers nothing that our current mediocre crop of strikers don't have more of. In an ideal world, they would all get a clean sheet review by Lambo.
In the real world, that may or may not happen and that, itself, may depend on the advice he has been given from inside the club.
If it did happen, and given everything else that would inevitably 'hit' a manager as of day 1, I can understand why Lambo didn't appear to want to make it P1.
Of the three, GI seems the most intriguing if nothing else. Sadly, the consensus seems to be that Bodger has lost it post injury. SB always was just a plain and simple bad buy in my opinion (at the time).
But GI is a genuine top tier talent that, for whatever reason, is just not firing.
A lot of what you say can justifiably be thrown at him and will stick but, if I was Lambo, he's the one I'd want a look at because he's that good (or could be).
Not sure if that would entail coaching, bollocking, a sports psychologist or just wiring the fucker to the mains but with an £18m loss or, if it did work, a double your money profit potentially on the line, I'd definitely be trying.
He's got ability, but ability without application counts for jack shit.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
So he carries no responsibility for getting himself motivated? Why can't he get himself working for 60-70k a week? You can't teach someone who won't be taught. He's a grown man and a handsomely remunerated one at that. The pre-injury thing is not bollocks. Compare his performances before that, when he looked one of the best players in the entire league, and tell me how often he's produced performances like that since? Beyond the three false nine games I'm struggling to think of one. You seem happy to judge and wildly exaggerate the few bits of positive stuff Berahino's done, seems only the poor stuff can't be judged. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that motivation may come from Lambert, and if it does, he'll be a fantastic player. Again, in 2015/16 he was absolutely crucial in our run of form that had us 5 points of 4th with 7 games to go. He/Arnie/Shaq are the best attacking trio together that i've seen at Stoke. He may not have been as much the main man, but he was exceptional throughout that season. He was poor against Everton and Coventry, yes. As for last season, he didn't look ready or sharp. Again, it's not black or white though, Hughes himself said that we needed to judge him this season when he was fit, then proceeded to ignore him. I see no reason why fans would be annoyed at the thought of them getting a second chance should Lambert decide they're worth it. The motivation has to come from Imbula. Nobody can make him. He's got to make himself. That's really all there is to it. Bojan was good in the false 9 run but hasn't really done much post-injury beyond that. I see no reason whatsoever why Berahino should get a chance when he hasn't, one decent cameo against Arsenal aside, done anything to warrant one. He doesn't look any fitter or any sharper to me. Smudge used the word 'broken' to describe him in is Sentinel piece and that's exactly how he looks, like a man who has lost it. The player he was at West Brom, quick, skillful, incisive, influential, hasn't made the journey to the Potteries. There is no semblance of that player there, and if it was just a question of fitness, we'd have seen at least flashes.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that motivation may come from Lambert, and if it does, he'll be a fantastic player. Again, in 2015/16 he was absolutely crucial in our run of form that had us 5 points of 4th with 7 games to go. He/Arnie/Shaq are the best attacking trio together that i've seen at Stoke. He may not have been as much the main man, but he was exceptional throughout that season. He was poor against Everton and Coventry, yes. As for last season, he didn't look ready or sharp. Again, it's not black or white though, Hughes himself said that we needed to judge him this season when he was fit, then proceeded to ignore him. I see no reason why fans would be annoyed at the thought of them getting a second chance should Lambert decide they're worth it. The motivation has to come from Imbula. Nobody can make him. He's got to make himself. That's really all there is to it. Bojan was good in the false 9 run but hasn't really done much post-injury beyond that. I see no reason whatsoever why Berahino should get a chance when he hasn't, one decent cameo against Arsenal aside, done anything to warrant one. He doesn't look any fitter or any sharper to me. Smudge used the word 'broken' to describe him in is Sentinel piece and that's exactly how he looks, like a man who has lost it. The player he was at West Brom, quick, skillful, incisive, influential, hasn't made the journey to the Potteries. There is no semblance of that player there, and if it was just a question of fitness, we'd have seen at least flashes. Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 13:11:23 GMT
The motivation has to come from Imbula. Nobody can make him. He's got to make himself. That's really all there is to it. Bojan was good in the false 9 run but hasn't really done much post-injury beyond that. I see no reason whatsoever why Berahino should get a chance when he hasn't, one decent cameo against Arsenal aside, done anything to warrant one. He doesn't look any fitter or any sharper to me. Smudge used the word 'broken' to describe him in is Sentinel piece and that's exactly how he looks, like a man who has lost it. The player he was at West Brom, quick, skillful, incisive, influential, hasn't made the journey to the Potteries. There is no semblance of that player there, and if it was just a question of fitness, we'd have seen at least flashes. Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have. He hasn't 'knuckled' down under four managers at his last three clubs. That should tell you where the problem lies. The onus is on him, above any manager, first and foremost. How many games as a number 10 did Bojan have that season where he looked remotely like the flyer he was pre-injury? We gave him a contract because presumably we hadn't lost hope that he could become that player again. I don't see why Berahino should get any sort of run. He doesn't impress when he's given the chance even against the most modest of opposition (I thought against Southampton he was lively but still rarely in good positions, barring the penalty he won, and missed). He isn't as quick or as strong as Diouf, obviously isn't as good at hold up play as Crouch and even Choupo has looked more of a presence when played centrally.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 13:16:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:16:10 GMT
Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have. He hasn't 'knuckled' down under four managers at his last three clubs. That should tell you where the problem lies. The onus is on him, above any manager, first and foremost. How many games as a number 10 did Bojan have that season where he looked remotely like the flyer he was pre-injury? We gave him a contract because presumably we hadn't lost hope that he could become that player again. I don't see why Berahino should get any sort of run. He doesn't impress when he's given the chance even against the most modest of opposition (I thought against Southampton he was lively but still rarely in good positions, barring the penalty he won, and missed). He isn't as quick or as strong as Diouf, obviously isn't as good at hold up play as Crouch and even Choupo has looked more of a presence when played centrally. Again, there is literally no risk to trying him. There is a huge reward though as he obviously has talent. He did work hard at the start of his time here. Several. The difference being that players around him were good too. We weren't the one man team we were before his injury. Saints away, Swansea away, Swansea at home, Leicester at home, to name a few. He's better at hold up play than Diouf and quicker than Crouch. Choupo has been awful as a striker. If Diouf gets a run, fine, I'm not against that, but people saying Saido is shite when he hasn't had the chance is just weird.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 13:23:57 GMT
Post by realstokebloke on Jan 24, 2018 13:23:57 GMT
In an ideal world, they would all get a clean sheet review by Lambo.
In the real world, that may or may not happen and that, itself, may depend on the advice he has been given from inside the club.
If it did happen, and given everything else that would inevitably 'hit' a manager as of day 1, I can understand why Lambo didn't appear to want to make it P1.
Of the three, GI seems the most intriguing if nothing else. Sadly, the consensus seems to be that Bodger has lost it post injury. SB always was just a plain and simple bad buy in my opinion (at the time).
But GI is a genuine top tier talent that, for whatever reason, is just not firing.
A lot of what you say can justifiably be thrown at him and will stick but, if I was Lambo, he's the one I'd want a look at because he's that good (or could be).
Not sure if that would entail coaching, bollocking, a sports psychologist or just wiring the fucker to the mains but with an £18m loss or, if it did work, a double your money profit potentially on the line, I'd definitely be trying.
He's got ability, but ability without application counts for jack shit. Blimey. Granny & eggs award there.
Hence I'm suggesting that we / Lambo might at least try to find out why he has lost motivation and if we can ever get it back.
And if we think we can, we should employ whatever means necessary to do so, given the stakes and investment.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 13:28:59 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Jan 24, 2018 13:28:59 GMT
Must admit I thought Imbula was very impressive in his first season for us, but what happened during the summer!? Never seemed to be the same player again! Bags of talent without a shadow of a doubt, but I guess he can only work in certain systems on the pitch. Anyway quite strange that his form should dip that low really! ![8-|](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/rY_vRFLA3mqqdMbEG4cF.gif)
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 14:03:37 GMT
Post by kustokie on Jan 24, 2018 14:03:37 GMT
You're just flat out making excuses for him now. He's a grown up. Other players seem to manage the transition ok. He's underwhelmed at three. Porto, here and Toulouse. Surely you can appreciate there are reasons why he frustrates fans and reasons why he's not in the team? And that he has responsibility for them? He's another one, like Berahino and Bojan, who seems to get better in absentia in some fans' eyes. The reality doesn't match the vision. Just because we paid big fees for Imbula and Saido doesn't mean they're automatically 'worth a go'. They have to earn it. I can't agree he had more good games than bad because he didn't. If he did, he'd still be here contributing to the squad. It was in Hughes' interest for him to succeed as his failure is a sizeable nail in his coffin. The faults in Imbula's game are too critical to make him a viable option. You can't play in his position and not do any defensive work and he sure as shit isn't a number 10. Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken. The problem with Imbula is, he has the ability but not the desire and willingness to learn and work hard to go from good to great. He has been a flop at two CL teams, and clearly resented playing for a lower level team. He threws his toys out of the pram when he was pushed to know, culmitting in his disgraceful display against Wolves. He’s a toxic employee and needs to move on. Also, I don’t think he overly smart, and does not understand what he’s doing wrong. Everyone is entitled to a second chance and maybe a third. However, bringing him back would be represent a fourth. Stoke aren’t the first business to have made in an investment in an asset that didn’t work out as planned. We should learn learn from this experience, cut our losses by disposing of the asset and write it off. I hope I’m wrong, but doubt it.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 14:07:57 GMT
Post by kustokie on Jan 24, 2018 14:07:57 GMT
You're just flat out making excuses for him now. He's a grown up. Other players seem to manage the transition ok. He's underwhelmed at three. Porto, here and Toulouse. Surely you can appreciate there are reasons why he frustrates fans and reasons why he's not in the team? And that he has responsibility for them? He's another one, like Berahino and Bojan, who seems to get better in absentia in some fans' eyes. The reality doesn't match the vision. Just because we paid big fees for Imbula and Saido doesn't mean they're automatically 'worth a go'. They have to earn it. I can't agree he had more good games than bad because he didn't. If he did, he'd still be here contributing to the squad. It was in Hughes' interest for him to succeed as his failure is a sizeable nail in his coffin. The faults in Imbula's game are too critical to make him a viable option. You can't play in his position and not do any defensive work and he sure as shit isn't a number 10. Are you saying that going abroad for a young player isn't a challenge? And that it doesn't take some players longer than others to acclimatise? There are definitely reasons, he's got obvious flaws, but at a time when our only midfielder who is even partly a premier league player is Joe Allen, i'm not sure why he's been written off so quickly. Imbula's performances definitely earned more of a go than he got. He played excellent against Watford and Leicester last season and was then barely seen again. Similarly with Bojan, his best season since Barcelona in 2015/16 and he never starts 3 games in a row for us since, lumped out on loan in favour of Joe Allen at number 10. Berahino has started 3 games this season, and looked good in 2, but then instantly dropped. I'm fine with Mame starting over him but Crouch over him was just favouritism. Mark Hughes did many things that were against his interests, The only player who isn't a 'proper ard worker' that he's trusted since 2016 for any length of time is Saido, and after 6 months, when he'd finally got to fitness and looked sharper, he decided to give up on him. He even dropped Shaqiri for last winter in favour of Allen and Walters behind Crouch in a 343, that shows exactly the 'tactical nous' we're dealing with in Mark Hughes. He has huge faults, but they're not in his talent. Work rate can be coached, and his talent is too big to not give him the benefit of the doubt that Lambert might get a tune out of him. Big reward for no more risk than we've already taken. The problem with Imbula is, he has the ability but apparently not the desire or willingness to learn and work hard to go from good to great. He has been a flop at two CL teams, and clearly resented playing for a lower level team. He threw his toys out of the pram when he was pushed to do more, culminating in his disgraceful display against Wolves. He’s a toxic employee and needs to move. Also, I don’t think he overly smart, and does not understand what he’s doing wrong. Either no one has taken him aside and point these things out, or they have and he chosen to ignore the advice. Everyone is entitled to a second chance and maybe a third. However, bringing him back would be represent the fourth. Stoke aren’t the first business to have invested n an asset that didn’t work out as planned. We should learn learn from this experience, cut our losses by disposing of the asset and write it off. I’d love to be proved wrong because we have seen a couple of dazzling displays from Imbula, but they have been few and far between.
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