|
Post by lordb on Oct 24, 2017 10:12:52 GMT
So he has two games before he is forced out. But it won't be that clear cut will it? We won't win both games and we won't lose both games. What if we got one point? Or two points? Or three points? Performances are important too. We could win or lose both games couldn't we? Fuck knows. Watford should steam into us.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 10:13:06 GMT
So he has two games before he is forced out. But it won't be that clear cut will it? We won't win both games and we won't lose both games. What if we got one point? Or two points? Or three points? I honestly think we'll unfortunately lose both games. I just can't see any real spark or inspiration in the team right now. I really, really hope I'm wrong and we get 6 points but I just can't see us getting any.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Oct 24, 2017 10:19:14 GMT
If Hughes is still in charge I can see 7 points in the next 4 games.
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 24, 2017 10:22:22 GMT
If Hughes is still in charge I can see 7 points in the next 4 games. Being honest i can actually see Nil Points in the next 4 games , manager and chairman ( because the coo has gone missing ) saying we have good games coning up totally fails to recognises the point Watford , Palace and Brighton will all see these games as Must win against a very poor stoke team ,that cant defend , , foes under when behind and has no shape .
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Oct 24, 2017 10:31:04 GMT
If Hughes is still in charge I can see 7 points in the next 4 games. Being honest i can actually see Nil Points in the next 4 games , manager and chairman ( because the coo has gone missing ) saying we have good games coning up totally fails to recognises the point Watford , Palace and Brighton will all see these games as Must win against a very poor stoke team ,that cant defend , , foes under when behind and has no shape . I suppose benji you must have a slight conflict of interests, as a supporter you want Stoke to stay up but as a forecaster of doom for so many years relegation would allow you to come on the Oatcake for the next ten years and tell us how right you were.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 13:45:41 GMT
I am a bit torn on this one. Ideally I would like Mark Hughes to stay and turn things around but that is increasingly looking unlikely. If we are going to sack the manager then realistically we need to do so by no later than the end of November. It may take up to 2 weeks to find a replacement and the new manager would need time to assess the squad before the January transfer window. That is of course assuming that funds will be made available for signings. We don't normally do much business in January. Finding the right replacement will be critical. A new manager doesn't guarantee any improvement (remember Bob Bradley). Also some high profile names may be put off by Peter Coates' self sufficiency policy. Mark Hughes has clearly made mistakes with some signings and tactics and in particular he needs to sort out the defence as we look disorganised at the back. Having said that, not all our problems are down to him. We had Lemina all but signed until the board stuffed up the contract negotiations. The failure to then sign Delph or anyone else has left us critically short in midfield and we have little alternative to playing Fletcher and Allen in every game. If Hughes goes then I think 'Head of Recruitment' Cartwright should also consider his position. Cartwright is clearly not up to par and I would be making the decision for him.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 24, 2017 13:55:25 GMT
So he has two games before he is forced out. But it won't be that clear cut will it? We won't win both games and we won't lose both games. What if we got one point? Or two points? Or three points? Performances are important too. We could win or lose both games couldn't we? Fuck knows. Watford should steam into us. And they will. They are the perfect opposition for us to prove we still have the stomach for the fight. I'd pick our grittiest, most reliable players for this one and the most solid formation possible. Time for players to wake up and be at it from the start. No more of the 3 defenders targeting one player and completely missing the real danger. Fucking embarrassing!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 14:11:30 GMT
I must be the only one on here but I fully back Hughes right now. Every team has a off day and we didn't play well enough to get anything on Saturday. We aren't in the middle of the season, it is still early. 16 games in and if we are still not improving, then I would question what is going on, we are a mid table team I don't know what people want. You aren't alone.
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on Oct 24, 2017 15:20:16 GMT
I'd have had more enjoyment kneeling down smelling my own feces in the toilet than watching our football recently
We have got to get results in these next 4, what we would like to call 'winnable games' Unfortunately how we're playing they now have a very good chance of going tits up
If he doesn't get a result in the next 2 games then he is done here, for me
|
|
|
Post by Sfance on Oct 27, 2017 10:44:37 GMT
Surely to goodness he must have mentioned that you can cut through our defense like butter - rancid butter?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 11:45:56 GMT
Personally, i think he'll be gone by Christmas. He's always struggled to motivate players for more than a game or two .... he's having trouble to motivate them for the first 30mins now I certainly think the tide has turned against him
New manager to boost morale before the window re opens And hope the owners don't look for bargain managers too.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 12:01:30 GMT
I must be the only one on here but I fully back Hughes right now. Every team has a off day and we didn't play well enough to get anything on Saturday. We aren't in the middle of the season, it is still early. 16 games in and if we are still not improving, then I would question what is going on, we are a mid table team I don't know what people want. You aren't alone. OK. So let's give him these next 12 games (I haven't checked the fixture list but it's been mentioned that outside of Spurs and Liverpool, the other 10 or so are against middling sides). That should take us quite nicely until what, mid-January? The issue I suppose becomes, the contrast between (relative) success and failure is stark. If we have a shitter across those next 12 games - have we left it too late to make a change? Are all the decent alternative manager options snapped up by then? Will we attract a manager who isn't perhaps going to have the chance to bring in his own transfer targets?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 12:21:43 GMT
I must be the only one on here but I fully back Hughes right now. Every team has a off day and we didn't play well enough to get anything on Saturday. We aren't in the middle of the season, it is still early. 16 games in and if we are still not improving, then I would question what is going on, we are a mid table team I don't know what people want. You aren't alone. I have been saying saying I think Sparky needs to go now but I just cannot dislike him, I still hope he will prove me wrong, I hope Berahino scores and starts playing well, I hope Wimmer is not a total dud. If that happens I could still obviously get behind Hughes I just don't see it, it looks like the players are not giving everything for him to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 12:44:31 GMT
Panic involves action ,(and cost which is our overidding principal ) our definition of well run has nothing to do with what goes on , on the pitch , the chief executive is monitoring the situation if after 37 games we are in the bottom three we will make a decisive move for a manager who was highly rated early in his career but lost his way and has something to prove . They may react sooner than that but they won't go public with it till after the 38th game. That was their modus operandi when Pulis' contract was not renewed. They gave him six months' notice in January and shook hands on it in June. And gone was Pulis. They will know in January - if they do give Hughes notice; they may not if by then he has turned things around - who their manager in spe is. They may sent out a feeler but they won't sign a contract with anyone till the old one has left the job. Such are the workings of men of principle.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 27, 2017 12:53:21 GMT
Panic involves action ,(and cost which is our overidding principal ) our definition of well run has nothing to do with what goes on , on the pitch , the chief executive is monitoring the situation if after 37 games we are in the bottom three we will make a decisive move for a manager who was highly rated early in his career but lost his way and has something to prove . They may react sooner than that but they won't go public with it till after the 38th game. That was their modus operandi when Pulis' contract was not renewed. They gave him six months' notice in January and shook hands on it in June. And gone was Pulis. They will know in January - if they do give Hughes notice; they may not if by then he has turned things around - who their manager in spe is. They may sent out a feeler but they won't sign a contract with anyone till the old one has left the job. Such are the workings of men of principle. The difference is that the tide really started to turn with Pulis towards the end of the season, so it was easier to leave until the summer. If results and performances like Bournemouth proliferate, there's absolutely no way he'll make it that far.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Oct 27, 2017 12:54:24 GMT
I am a bit torn on this one. Ideally I would like Mark Hughes to stay and turn things around but that is increasingly looking unlikely. If we are going to sack the manager then realistically we need to do so by no later than the end of November. It may take up to 2 weeks to find a replacement and the new manager would need time to assess the squad before the January transfer window. That is of course assuming that funds will be made available for signings. We don't normally do much business in January. Finding the right replacement will be critical. A new manager doesn't guarantee any improvement (remember Bob Bradley). Also some high profile names may be put off by Peter Coates' self sufficiency policy. Mark Hughes has clearly made mistakes with some signings and tactics and in particular he needs to sort out the defence as we look disorganised at the back. Having said that, not all our problems are down to him. We had Lemina all but signed until the board stuffed up the contract negotiations. The failure to then sign Delph or anyone else has left us critically short in midfield and we have little alternative to playing Fletcher and Allen in every game. If Hughes goes then I think 'Head of Recruitment' Cartwright should also consider his position. Never mind Bob Bradley which most people thought a strange appointment from the start. The fact is prof most teams that are relegated go down with a new manager; hardly any stick it out all season with a manager and get relegated like Sunderland did with Moyes. In that example however I would suggest Sunderland had lost all credibility as an employer of football managers and no one who is half decent would touch them. You are right to say "the right replacement will be critical" as replacements usually fail. It takes time to sort a football team out and players don't like change just like most people in society. Big Sam (the fans choice) went to Sunderland in October and took them down into the relegation zone. Only beating local rivals Newcastle kept the owners faith in him. He eventually saved Sunderland by one place the next May. Big Sam would struggle to manage the general type of players Hughes has brought in. Changing manager is recipe for relegation as much as it is avoiding relegation. It is damned hard managing a Premier league side and few can do it with any consistent success. Hughes is one of the very few who has been consistently successful. There are managers whose names have been broached on here in the past who are now sacked or struggling near the foot of the Prem like us. Even managers who has spent vast amounts of money like Rogers, Mourinho at Chelsea, van Gaal, Klopp so far at Liverpool fail to meet expectations. There is no one a nailed-on certainty to achieve better than Hughes, so we should no gamble on changing him.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 12:59:39 GMT
Who on here would give him more than the next game? I would give him until Christmas at least - although last season I was ready for him to be let go. It didnt happen, the man stayed, and so I supported our manager again. I don't think he's done anything this season to warrant a sacking, even if Coates were so inclined. Results haven't been good, but they have not been especially bad either. He still has the support of his players, and stories about unrest are non existent. Only one now former player in 4½ years has come out and trashed the manager, and only two important players in the same period has asked for a transfer. Nzonzi's career has improved after leaving, while Arnautovic has become persona non grata among shammers. His transfer policy has had its ups and downs, but you dont sack anyone because of that. If you did Ferguson would never had made it, nor would Wenger, Mou, or Neil Aspin. In other words, we should carry on until things are really bad, and they are a long way from that now.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 27, 2017 12:59:40 GMT
I am a bit torn on this one. Ideally I would like Mark Hughes to stay and turn things around but that is increasingly looking unlikely. If we are going to sack the manager then realistically we need to do so by no later than the end of November. It may take up to 2 weeks to find a replacement and the new manager would need time to assess the squad before the January transfer window. That is of course assuming that funds will be made available for signings. We don't normally do much business in January. Finding the right replacement will be critical. A new manager doesn't guarantee any improvement (remember Bob Bradley). Also some high profile names may be put off by Peter Coates' self sufficiency policy. Mark Hughes has clearly made mistakes with some signings and tactics and in particular he needs to sort out the defence as we look disorganised at the back. Having said that, not all our problems are down to him. We had Lemina all but signed until the board stuffed up the contract negotiations. The failure to then sign Delph or anyone else has left us critically short in midfield and we have little alternative to playing Fletcher and Allen in every game. If Hughes goes then I think 'Head of Recruitment' Cartwright should also consider his position. Never mind Bob Bradley which most people thought a strange appointment from the start. The fact is prof most teams that are relegated go down with a new manager; hardly any stick it out all season with a manager and get relegated like Sunderland did with Moyes. In that example however I would suggest Sunderland had lost all credibility as an employer of football managers and no one who is half decent would touch them. You are right to say "the right replacement will be critical" as replacements usually fail. It takes time to sort a football team out and players don't like change just like most people in society. Big Sam (the fans choice) went to Sunderland in October and took them down into the relegation zone. Only beating local rivals Newcastle kept the owners faith in him. He eventually saved Sunderland by one place the next May. Big Sam would struggle to manage the general type of players Hughes has brought in. Changing manager is recipe for relegation as much as it is avoiding relegation. It is damned hard managing a Premier league side and few can do it with any consistent success. Hughes is one of the very few who has been consistently successful. There are manager whose names have been broached on here in the past who are now sacked or struggling near the foot of the Prem like us. Even manager who has spent vast amounts of money like Rogers, Mourinho at Chelsea, van Gaal, Klopp so far at Liverpool fail to meet expectations. There is no one a nailed-on certainty to achieve better than Hughes, so we should no gamble on changing him. A lot of teams are relegated with a new manager because the old manager was taking them down anyway. In some cases they actually waited too long to make the change. Sunderland were 19th when Allardyce was appointed. And he has experience managing the kind of players Hughes has brought in and would hopefully get a window to bring his own types in as well. Don't like him as a man and would prefer we made an imaginative overseas appointment, but if we're assuming Coates is a buy British man, he's the best option by an embarrassing margin. Every new appointment is a gamble so by that logic nobody would ever change managers until they were, like Sunderland with Moyes, absolutely screwed would they? Sometimes it's right to make a change. Would Southampton have been better off keeping Adkins instead of appointing Pochettino? Should Palace have stuck with Pardew? Should West Brom have stuck with Alan Irvine?
|
|
|
Post by juiceandbits on Oct 27, 2017 13:01:43 GMT
I think the earliest anything could happen is after the Leicester game, with an international break giving us time to maybe do something. Unless we win at Watford, a loss against Leicester and things would get pretty nasty in the stadium, and they might have to get the axe out, as much as they don't want to. If we lose against Watford i'm convinced he'll go into the Leicester game needing a result to save his job. I guess a lot of it will come down to what sort of indication Big Sam has given them behind the scenes. Yeah was gonna literally post this.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 13:08:59 GMT
If we lose against Watford i'm convinced he'll go into the Leicester game needing a result to save his job. I guess a lot of it will come down to what sort of indication Big Sam has given them behind the scenes. Yeah was gonna literally post this. That's probably how it works at the 18 other PL clubs. Only Stoke and Arsenal - strange bedfellows I know - tend to back the manager even after a string of poor results.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Oct 27, 2017 13:12:22 GMT
Yeah was gonna literally post this. That's probably how it works at the 18 other PL clubs. Only Stoke and Arsenal - strange bedfellows I know - tend to back the manager even after a string of poor results. Think it's fairly clear Big Sam doesn't want another club job unless it's one of the big clubs (who won't want him).
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 13:14:00 GMT
As for Allardyce he stated in connection with the Leicester job that he doesn't want to manage clubs anymore but wants the more sedate job of running an international team. Of course he said a couple of years ago that he was now ready to retire, and since then he's managed a few, and mismanaged his dream job too. So don't rule him out if one of the big five comes in for him - don't think we qualify as such !
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 27, 2017 13:21:11 GMT
Yeah was gonna literally post this. That's probably how it works at the 18 other PL clubs. Only Stoke and Arsenal - strange bedfellows I know - tend to back the manager even after a string of poor results. No manager survives the fans turning.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 27, 2017 13:25:31 GMT
That's probably how it works at the 18 other PL clubs. Only Stoke and Arsenal - strange bedfellows I know - tend to back the manager even after a string of poor results. No manager survives the fans turning. It's the last bit of power fans really have.
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Oct 27, 2017 13:52:23 GMT
Being honest i can actually see Nil Points in the next 4 games , manager and chairman ( because the coo has gone missing ) saying we have good games coning up totally fails to recognises the point Watford , Palace and Brighton will all see these games as Must win against a very poor stoke team ,that cant defend , , foes under when behind and has no shape . I suppose benji you must have a slight conflict of interests, as a supporter you want Stoke to stay up but as a forecaster of doom for so many years relegation would allow you to come on the Oatcake for the next ten years and tell us how right you were. He's probably been to more Stoke games than you. Why are you even here? Go and spam the Baggies fans about Pulis.
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Oct 27, 2017 13:58:12 GMT
As for Allardyce he stated in connection with the Leicester job that he doesn't want to manage clubs anymore but wants the more sedate job of running an international team. Of course he said a couple of years ago that he was now ready to retire, and since then he's managed a few, and mismanaged his dream job too. So don't rule him out if one of the big five comes in for him - don't think we qualify as such ! Are folk really getting excited about the idea of Big Sam?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 27, 2017 14:27:40 GMT
As for Allardyce he stated in connection with the Leicester job that he doesn't want to manage clubs anymore but wants the more sedate job of running an international team. Of course he said a couple of years ago that he was now ready to retire, and since then he's managed a few, and mismanaged his dream job too. So don't rule him out if one of the big five comes in for him - don't think we qualify as such ! Are folk really getting excited about the idea of Big Sam? Only because the alternatives seem to be Dyche, Moyes or Coleman really.
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Oct 27, 2017 14:35:15 GMT
I've a feeling that if we're handed our arses on a plate by Watford our travelling fans will have a big impact.
Typically louder than the home crowd and significantly more out of pocket after an away trip I'm guessing the owners might hear a level of discontent they appear unaware of.
Equally, however, if MH gets a response and the team deliver on the pitch the supporters will show their backing and it could galvanize us.
Realistically though I'm not too optimistic of anything other than a sound beating.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Oct 27, 2017 14:37:35 GMT
Never mind Bob Bradley which most people thought a strange appointment from the start. The fact is prof most teams that are relegated go down with a new manager; hardly any stick it out all season with a manager and get relegated like Sunderland did with Moyes. In that example however I would suggest Sunderland had lost all credibility as an employer of football managers and no one who is half decent would touch them. You are right to say "the right replacement will be critical" as replacements usually fail. It takes time to sort a football team out and players don't like change just like most people in society. Big Sam (the fans choice) went to Sunderland in October and took them down into the relegation zone. Only beating local rivals Newcastle kept the owners faith in him. He eventually saved Sunderland by one place the next May. Big Sam would struggle to manage the general type of players Hughes has brought in. Changing manager is recipe for relegation as much as it is avoiding relegation. It is damned hard managing a Premier league side and few can do it with any consistent success. Hughes is one of the very few who has been consistently successful. There are manager whose names have been broached on here in the past who are now sacked or struggling near the foot of the Prem like us. Even manager who has spent vast amounts of money like Rogers, Mourinho at Chelsea, van Gaal, Klopp so far at Liverpool fail to meet expectations. There is no one a nailed-on certainty to achieve better than Hughes, so we should no gamble on changing him. A lot of teams are relegated with a new manager because the old manager was taking them down anyway. In some cases they actually waited too long to make the change. Sunderland were 19th when Allardyce was appointed. And he has experience managing the kind of players Hughes has brought in and would hopefully get a window to bring his own types in as well. Don't like him as a man and would prefer we made an imaginative overseas appointment, but if we're assuming Coates is a buy British man, he's the best option by an embarrassing margin. Every new appointment is a gamble so by that logic nobody would ever change managers until they were, like Sunderland with Moyes, absolutely screwed would they? Sometimes it's right to make a change. Would Southampton have been better off keeping Adkins instead of appointing Pochettino? Should Palace have stuck with Pardew? Should West Brom have stuck with Alan Irvine? I stand corrected, but I remember after he took over Sunderland they had a disastrous run and were in a worse position than when he took over at one point. After his first few weeks, here in the north-east, a lot of fans were baying for him to be sacked. Oatcake posters have been anti-Hughes to a large degree since he took over particularly after his first few weeks, I don't think they would give any new manager a fair chance. Some idiots think you simply bring in someone new and results change for the better. My point above is that is not usually, never mind always, the case. You say "the old manager was taking them down anyway"; that may be true in some cases but how do we know? It is pure speculation. I am definitely of the view that Hughes would not take any side to relegation, he is too good for that, and even if you don't agree, he is miles better than Pardew and Irvine. I would love us to find a Pochettino, but what are the chances? You are also right to say "every new appointment is a gamble", but I would not gamble on anyone being better than Hughes, based on his record as a manager. The "people's choice" is Allardyce, but I don't think he as good as some people seem to think and certainly a class below Hughes. What would it take for me to change my mind? I would call for him to go, if he lost the dressing room. IMO there is no evidence of that. The players support him and respect him and want to succeed with him. We should give them all our support.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Oct 27, 2017 14:47:19 GMT
I suppose benji you must have a slight conflict of interests, as a supporter you want Stoke to stay up but as a forecaster of doom for so many years relegation would allow you to come on the Oatcake for the next ten years and tell us how right you were. He's probably been to more Stoke games than you. Why are you even here? Go and spam the Baggies fans about Pulis. I can see you used the word probably Mr Void, so I've tried to work out just how many Stoke games I've been too and my guess is around 35O. With respect though don't think I'm going to start feeling obligated to answer any more of your silly questions or remarks.
|
|