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Post by salopstick on Jan 8, 2024 11:06:22 GMT
and its the departing MP's mrs
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Post by salopstick on Jan 8, 2024 11:08:56 GMT
Reform really are UKIP v2 aren't they. While not being right wing myself, I was excited by the prospect of another right wing party which could potentially deliver for those that way inclined without being knee deep in corruption. They've challenged the tories on where they've failed for their supporters and seemed to be a good opposition even promising to stand a candidate in every constituency just a few weeks ago. Just like UKIP though they appear to be a tory enabling party which are only interested in challenging sears the torys can't win and staying away from tight seats to allow the corrupt torys more chance of success. Funny considering all the chat from Sunak trying to imply Lib Dem/Labour are a coalition over the summer. This is the tory parry which went into a coalition with Lib Dem, did a deal with the DUP to get a majority and have had UKIP bow over for them at every ask for the last decade. UKIP have won one seat at a GE and 2 at a by election in their 30 year history - absolutely pathetic. Reform seem to now be much the same. If you have right wing views in this country it seems the only option is to be represented is if it comes with a large dollop of corruption to the highest bidding tory donors too. The more I think about it the more I think Reform/UKIP aren't proper parties with any political aspirations at all. Feels more like a set of fake parties under the thumb of the conservatives to split votes where they feel its beneficial. Without electoral reform, some form of proportional representation, any other party other than the big two will be on the periphery. The Greens for example will never have a real voice. The futile ( minor, insignificant) political struggle is within the big two parties...."how far to the " left" or "right" are we( perceived to be)?" . Unfortunately Gawa, in my opinion, even after the next election we are destined for the status quo, same old, same old....no real change, very few getting what they really want. so you might as well give labour a chance. you will feel better for a change then after a few years feel fucked give the tories another chance rinse and repeat
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Post by Veritas on Jan 8, 2024 11:09:06 GMT
and its the departing MP's mrs They couldn't have picked a worse candidate to replace the disgraced MP, the Tories seem to have completely lost touch with reality.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 8, 2024 12:08:45 GMT
and its the departing MP's mrs They couldn't have picked a worse candidate to replace the disgraced MP, the Tories seem to have completely lost touch with reality. Is it true that Bone said if it wasn't his partner he would stand as an Independent? Seems quite in character for him.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 8, 2024 13:15:11 GMT
and its the departing MP's mrs They couldn't have picked a worse candidate to replace the disgraced MP, the Tories seem to have completely lost touch with reality. Hardly a new phenomenon When her husband Charlie Elphike MP was convicted of sexual assault against two female staff members and sentenced to two years in Prison, the Conservative Party selected his wife Natalie unopposed to replace him and she was duly elected MP for Dover at the 2019 GE Of course Natalie isn't responsible for the actions of her husband but she did say after Charlie's conviction he had been punished for being "charming, wealthy, charismatic and successful, attractive, and attracted to, women" and dismissed the claims of his accusers. She was one of five Conservative MPs censured and suspended from Parliament for trying to influence the Judge in Charlie's Sentencing Appeal. So much for the Party of Law and Order
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Post by gawa on Jan 8, 2024 15:20:12 GMT
Reform really are UKIP v2 aren't they. While not being right wing myself, I was excited by the prospect of another right wing party which could potentially deliver for those that way inclined without being knee deep in corruption. They've challenged the tories on where they've failed for their supporters and seemed to be a good opposition even promising to stand a candidate in every constituency just a few weeks ago. Just like UKIP though they appear to be a tory enabling party which are only interested in challenging sears the torys can't win and staying away from tight seats to allow the corrupt torys more chance of success. Funny considering all the chat from Sunak trying to imply Lib Dem/Labour are a coalition over the summer. This is the tory parry which went into a coalition with Lib Dem, did a deal with the DUP to get a majority and have had UKIP bow over for them at every ask for the last decade. UKIP have won one seat at a GE and 2 at a by election in their 30 year history - absolutely pathetic. Reform seem to now be much the same. If you have right wing views in this country it seems the only option is to be represented is if it comes with a large dollop of corruption to the highest bidding tory donors too. The more I think about it the more I think Reform/UKIP aren't proper parties with any political aspirations at all. Feels more like a set of fake parties under the thumb of the conservatives to split votes where they feel its beneficial. Without electoral reform, some form of proportional representation, any other party other than the big two will be on the periphery. The Greens for example will never have a real voice. The futile ( minor, insignificant) political struggle is within the big two parties...."how far to the " left" or "right" are we( perceived to be)?" . Unfortunately Gawa, in my opinion, even after the next election we are destined for the status quo, same old, same old....no real change, very few getting what they really want. I 100% agree with you. I would leave for reform to take some blue seats, lib dem to pick up a few extra seats and green/other left party to steal a few of labour too. The less seats shared between Tory/Labour the better in my opinion as it moves us away from the status quo and puts both parties in a position where they'll depend on others for a majority and to pass through legislation. Reform have a huge opportunity to win some Conservative seats even in traditional Red Wall areas too as they offer a different perspective and also share similar feelings on brexit that some of the people in those areas hold who voted for it. I worry though that like UKIP have done in the past that they'll bow over to the conservatives and only contest seats which don't split the tory vote and keep the status quo. I don't agree with their politics but I think they'd be a breath of fresh air which is needed. Too many politicians these days which don't think for themselves and just vote in blocs following whatever the party leader tells them to do.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 8, 2024 15:25:49 GMT
I bet my bile duct that reform do not win 3 seats (id like to say zero seats but they might get lucky with two )
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Post by Veritas on Jan 8, 2024 15:41:15 GMT
They couldn't have picked a worse candidate to replace the disgraced MP, the Tories seem to have completely lost touch with reality. Is it true that Bone said if it wasn't his partner he would stand as an Independent? Seems quite in character for him. Yes so I understand
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Post by Veritas on Jan 8, 2024 15:42:32 GMT
They couldn't have picked a worse candidate to replace the disgraced MP, the Tories seem to have completely lost touch with reality. Hardly a new phenomenon When her husband Charlie Elphike MP was convicted of sexual assault against two female staff members and sentenced to two years in Prison, the Conservative Party selected his wife Natalie unopposed to replace him and she was duly elected MP for Dover at the 2019 GE Of course Natalie isn't responsible for the actions of her husband but she did say after Charlie's conviction he had been punished for being "charming, wealthy, charismatic and successful, attractive, and attracted to, women" and dismissed the claims of his accusers. She was one of five Conservative MPs censured and suspended from Parliament for trying to influence the Judge in Charlie's Sentencing Appeal. So much for the Party of Law and Order 😡
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 8, 2024 22:59:30 GMT
Right. But when will we actually see these alleged benefits? When will everyone get richer because in real terms, everyone is a lot poorer (not entirely due to brexit, obviously). Wages have increased quickly, but not in real terms when you account for inflation. Immigration is higher than ever and we have lost lots of the net contributing immigrants (from the EU). Name 5 tangible benefits of brexit. I think it is inappropriate to continue debating Brexit on this thread. I have already answered the question of the benefits brought from Brexit on the Brexit thread many times, for example see page 1,552 on 25th June 2023, when I answered at length. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7809404/threadRegarding wages; in my last quarterly review on 23rd September (Brexit page 1,562), I posted in section A2 that at 8.2 % UK average wage growth was the highest in the G7, real wage growth after inflation was 0.3% third highest in the G7 (and inflation has dropped since then). Unemployment is the third lowest in the G7 and lower than for decades since leaving the EU. Redundancies are also the lowest for decades since leaving the EU. On all the above counts, the UK is performing better than the other EU members of the G7 as a consequence of leaving the EU and stopping freedom of movement. I think it is self evident that Brexit has brought these tangible benefits, which amount to greater job security for everyone. Immigration is at record levels because of large numbers of dependants and relatives arriving to live in the UK, including many from Europe joining workers who have decided to settle in the UK. Would you deny them access? Record numbers of students are arriving to study bringing substantial revenue to the country. Would you stop them? Large numbers of workers coming to do vacant jobs that need filling such as in the health service, all requiring work permits. Would you stop the NHS bringing in nurses, farmers bringing in crop harvesters, etc. ? And of course there are a large number of refugees fleeing tyranny. Would you stop them? Our economy has a high number of vacancies that needs filling because it is still growing and jobs need doing. Britain has thrived on immigration for thousands of years and immigrants contribute positively to our society and make us the great country that we are. Everyone of us is an immigrant or descended from an immigrant. There is no issue within immigration, provided it is controlled.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 8, 2024 23:03:53 GMT
Since leaving EU, UK has signed 71 Bilateral Trade Agreements of these 68 were EU rollovers on EXACTLY the same terms Of the 3 Bespoke Trade Agreements the one with Australia was described as a crap deal for UK by the Minister who negotiated it George Eustace as soon as he stepped down as a Minister and was free to speak. The Australian Think Tank The Lowy Institute reached a similar conclusion and congratulated the Australian Negotiators for getting concessions from UK they were unable to get In Trade Agreements with Japan, China, South Korea and US www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/australia-sweeps-table-uk-trade-dealThe New Zealand Trade Agreement is based on the Australian and is equally crap. The Japan Trade Agreement is almost a Rollover except for the addition of a Digital Section and the Agriculture Section only gives UK a quota if EU doesn't use, e.g. none The most important Trade Agreement with EU is considerably worse than previous arrangements The UK also joined CPTPP but as it already had Bilateral Agreements with 9 of the 11 Members the only new Trade Partners are Brunei and Malaysia A Trade Agreement with US, the Big Brexit Prize, is nowhere in sight The much advertised enhanced Trade Agreement with Canada is floundering as Canada has no great appetite to negotiate In fact some of the EU Rollover Agreement contained Sunset Clauses and is now providing Hard Cheese for the Dairy Industry For about the 4th/5th time I'll ask your opinion on whether Sovereignty has been damaged in this agreement where Global Companies can sue the UK Government in Secret Courts if they introduce Legislation which negatively affects their business? The equally discussed Trade Agreement with India has also gone equally quite I am perplexed how you think this level of competence will enhance the Economy Wages are increasing faster for decades because inflation increased faster than for decades All foreigners are not treated equally. It is possible to pay skilled workers (misnomer) 20% less Over 100,000 Social care Workers entered on this route last year alone. The changes announced by forked tongued Cleverly (sic) were immediately rowed back and the majority of changes come into effect in January 2025 I.e. never You saying Government can introduce Legislation to control Business I assume deliberately excluded Sovereignty over Human Rights which UK has ceded to International Organisations I think it is inappropriate to continue debating Brexit this thread. There have been frequent posts back and forth on the merits of the UK's new trade deals on that thread. You have a low opinion of the progress that has been made so far on trade deals, which I have related at length in my reviews on the Brexit thread, covering a lot more agreements that those you refer to above. We were told in The Guardian in 2016 that "leaving EU could put £250bn of UK export trade at risk". However in 2022 UK exports of goods and services were at a record level and the UK moved up from being ranked 6th in the world in 2021 to 5th in the world in 2022. Exports to the Commonwealth increased by 23% in 2022. In the 12 months to last October, exports have increased further. Exports to non EU countries are growing very well, particularly to the US, and a recent report has found that goods trade between the UK and EU does not show a Brexit effect The UK is right to reduce our dependence on the EU and concentrate on building trade with the rest of the world, which is growing much faster than the EU. In contrast to the endless negative forecasts since 2016 in the anti Brexit media of economic recession if the UK left the EU, and despite and apart from the pandemic and inflation/high interest rates due to the war in Ukraine, the UK is still in business and there has been no recession since the pandemic. Recession (2 successive quarters of negative GDP growth) has occurred in the US - first half of 2022, Netherlands - first 3 quarters of 2023, Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden, Austria, Norway, and Ireland - all in second and third quarters of 2023. Germany has avoided a technical recession, but has had 4 out of the last 6 quarters either negative or zero growth.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 9, 2024 4:20:42 GMT
Since leaving EU, UK has signed 71 Bilateral Trade Agreements of these 68 were EU rollovers on EXACTLY the same terms Of the 3 Bespoke Trade Agreements the one with Australia was described as a crap deal for UK by the Minister who negotiated it George Eustace as soon as he stepped down as a Minister and was free to speak. The Australian Think Tank The Lowy Institute reached a similar conclusion and congratulated the Australian Negotiators for getting concessions from UK they were unable to get In Trade Agreements with Japan, China, South Korea and US www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/australia-sweeps-table-uk-trade-dealThe New Zealand Trade Agreement is based on the Australian and is equally crap. The Japan Trade Agreement is almost a Rollover except for the addition of a Digital Section and the Agriculture Section only gives UK a quota if EU doesn't use, e.g. none The most important Trade Agreement with EU is considerably worse than previous arrangements The UK also joined CPTPP but as it already had Bilateral Agreements with 9 of the 11 Members the only new Trade Partners are Brunei and Malaysia A Trade Agreement with US, the Big Brexit Prize, is nowhere in sight The much advertised enhanced Trade Agreement with Canada is floundering as Canada has no great appetite to negotiate In fact some of the EU Rollover Agreement contained Sunset Clauses and is now providing Hard Cheese for the Dairy Industry For about the 4th/5th time I'll ask your opinion on whether Sovereignty has been damaged in this agreement where Global Companies can sue the UK Government in Secret Courts if they introduce Legislation which negatively affects their business? The equally discussed Trade Agreement with India has also gone equally quite I am perplexed how you think this level of competence will enhance the Economy Wages are increasing faster for decades because inflation increased faster than for decades All foreigners are not treated equally. It is possible to pay skilled workers (misnomer) 20% less Over 100,000 Social care Workers entered on this route last year alone. The changes announced by forked tongued Cleverly (sic) were immediately rowed back and the majority of changes come into effect in January 2025 I.e. never You saying Government can introduce Legislation to control Business I assume deliberately excluded Sovereignty over Human Rights which UK has ceded to International Organisations I think it is inappropriate to continue debating Brexit this thread. This Government that brought us the current Brexit, unlike you I don't believe it's a static proposition There have been frequent posts back and forth on the merits of the UK's new trade deals on that thread. Indeed there have and your main claim is that Sovereignty was the most important yet you refuse to engage in the loss of Sovereignty in Canada Trade Agreement You have a low opinion of the progress that has been made so far on trade deals Its not just me who has a low opinion as I quoted the Minister who negotiated the Australian Trade Deal thinks is Crap for UK which I have related at length in my reviews on the Brexit thread, covering a lot more agreements that those you refer to above. There are no other Trade Agreements, what are you talking about We were told in The Guardian in 2016 that "leaving EU could put £250bn of UK export trade at risk". I have no idea which Article your talking about but it's highly irrelevant as you have admitted yourself there were many hyperbolic lies claims made during Brexit debate on both sides However in 2022 UK exports of goods and services were at a record level and the UK moved up from being ranked 6th in the world in 2021 to 5th in the world in 2022. Unfortunately the facts don't support your contention where you only quote one side of the coin
In 2022 UK had a record Trade Deficit Worldwide of £67Bn
In 2022, the value of imports from the EU rose 17% whereas the value of UK exports to the EU dropped by 6%. The trade deficit with the EU reached a record level.
UK and India have been leapfrogging between 5th/6th for some time. At the end of 2022 UK was $0.01 Trillion ahead of India and $0.04 Trillion ahead of France but $1.18 Trillion or 30% smaller than 4th place Germany. In 2023 India has again overtaken UK Exports to the Commonwealth increased by 23% in 2022. In the 12 months to last October, exports have increased further. Chained volume measures
After removing the effect of inflation, total goods imports increased by £53.2 billion (11.5%) in 2022 compared with 2021, growing to a lesser extent compared with 2018. Imports from both EU and non-EU countries rose over the year. The increases in imports in 2022 were relatively modest compared with import growth in value terms, highlighting that much of the growth was because of rising prices.
Total goods exports in 2022 rose by just £9.1 billion (2.9%) compared with 2021, with modest increases in exports to both EU and non-EU countries. However, when comparing with 2018, total goods exports fell by £35.1 billion (9.9%), with lower exports to both EU and non-EU countries. www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/uktradeingoodsyearinreview/2022 Exports to non EU countries are growing very well, particularly to the US, and a recent report has found that goods trade between the UK and EU does not show a Brexit effect The UK is right to reduce our dependence on the EU and concentrate on building trade with the rest of the world, which is growing much faster than the EU. Simply not factual according to the Official ONS figures I have linked above so you're just making stuff upIn contrast to the endless negative forecasts since 2016 in the anti Brexit media of economic recession if the UK left the EU, and despite and apart from the pandemic and inflation/high interest rates due to the war in Ukraine, the UK is still in business and there has been no recession since the pandemic. I'll requote you that a lot of lies were told on both sides of the Brexit debate. Did anyone seriously think that UK was going to go out of business Recession (2 successive quarters of negative GDP growth) I have said to you before that no reputable Economist would use this simplistic measure, it's far more complex than this, but if you insist has occurred in the US - first half of 2022, Netherlands - first 3 quarters of 2023, Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden, Austria, Norway, and Ireland - all in second and third quarters of 2023. Germany has avoided a technical recession, but has had 4 out of the last 6 quarters either negative or zero growth. The UK on your incorrect definition barely avoided a "Technical Recession" in the most recent published figures with 0% in Q2 2023 and -0.1% in Q3 2023 and has had 3 out of the last 6 quarters either negative or zero growth. What's your point?
Within the G7 for 2023 although none are doing spectacular UK is 6th for GDP Growth in 2023www.statista.com/statistics/1370599/g7-country-gdp-growth/
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 9, 2024 8:52:16 GMT
Right. But when will we actually see these alleged benefits? When will everyone get richer because in real terms, everyone is a lot poorer (not entirely due to brexit, obviously). Wages have increased quickly, but not in real terms when you account for inflation. Immigration is higher than ever and we have lost lots of the net contributing immigrants (from the EU). Name 5 tangible benefits of brexit. I think it is inappropriate to continue debating Brexit on this thread. I have already answered the question of the benefits brought from Brexit on the Brexit thread many times, for example see page 1,552 on 25th June 2023, when I answered at length. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7809404/threadRegarding wages; in my last quarterly review on 23rd September (Brexit page 1,562), I posted in section A2 that at 8.2 % UK average wage growth was the highest in the G7, real wage growth after inflation was 0.3% third highest in the G7 (and inflation has dropped since then). Unemployment is the third lowest in the G7 and lower than for decades since leaving the EU. Redundancies are also the lowest for decades since leaving the EU. On all the above counts, the UK is performing better than the other EU members of the G7 as a consequence of leaving the EU and stopping freedom of movement. I think it is self evident that Brexit has brought these tangible benefits, which amount to greater job security for everyone. Immigration is at record levels because of large numbers of dependants and relatives arriving to live in the UK, including many from Europe joining workers who have decided to settle in the UK. Would you deny them access? Record numbers of students are arriving to study bringing substantial revenue to the country. Would you stop them? Large numbers of workers coming to do vacant jobs that need filling such as in the health service, all requiring work permits. Would you stop the NHS bringing in nurses, farmers bringing in crop harvesters, etc. ? And of course there are a large number of refugees fleeing tyranny. Would you stop them? Our economy has a high number of vacancies that needs filling because it is still growing and jobs need doing. Britain has thrived on immigration for thousands of years and immigrants contribute positively to our society and make us the great country that we are. Everyone of us is an immigrant or descended from an immigrant. There is no issue within immigration, provided it is controlled. Oh yes, your infamous “a benefit of brexit is we are not in recession” and “growth is really high” post and, even better, “immigration is now under control” post! Wannabee has obliterated the economic part as complete nonsense on multiple occasions in a more articulate way than I am able to. The main argument to leave the EU was to reduce immigration. That isn’t going well. And so we still are without a single tangible brexit benefit.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 9, 2024 11:51:39 GMT
I think it is inappropriate to continue debating Brexit on this thread. I have already answered the question of the benefits brought from Brexit on the Brexit thread many times, for example see page 1,552 on 25th June 2023, when I answered at length. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7809404/threadRegarding wages; in my last quarterly review on 23rd September (Brexit page 1,562), I posted in section A2 that at 8.2 % UK average wage growth was the highest in the G7, real wage growth after inflation was 0.3% third highest in the G7 (and inflation has dropped since then). Unemployment is the third lowest in the G7 and lower than for decades since leaving the EU. Redundancies are also the lowest for decades since leaving the EU. On all the above counts, the UK is performing better than the other EU members of the G7 as a consequence of leaving the EU and stopping freedom of movement. I think it is self evident that Brexit has brought these tangible benefits, which amount to greater job security for everyone. Immigration is at record levels because of large numbers of dependants and relatives arriving to live in the UK, including many from Europe joining workers who have decided to settle in the UK. Would you deny them access? Record numbers of students are arriving to study bringing substantial revenue to the country. Would you stop them? Large numbers of workers coming to do vacant jobs that need filling such as in the health service, all requiring work permits. Would you stop the NHS bringing in nurses, farmers bringing in crop harvesters, etc. ? And of course there are a large number of refugees fleeing tyranny. Would you stop them? Our economy has a high number of vacancies that needs filling because it is still growing and jobs need doing. Britain has thrived on immigration for thousands of years and immigrants contribute positively to our society and make us the great country that we are. Everyone of us is an immigrant or descended from an immigrant. There is no issue within immigration, provided it is controlled. Oh yes, your infamous “a benefit of brexit is we are not in recession” and “growth is really high” post and, even better, “immigration is now under control” post! Wannabee has obliterated the economic part as complete nonsense on multiple occasions in a more articulate way than I am able to. The main argument to leave the EU was to reduce immigration. That isn’t going well. And so we still are without a single tangible brexit benefit. Just to add a few more points to your post Oggy Oops "The surge in corporate insolvencies for November 2023 announced by The Insolvency Service has left the UK economy on the cusp of an unwanted and deeply unenvious record. It looks increasingly as though there will be a record number of company failures in 2023, eclipsing the previous high of 26,556 at the height of the global financial crisis in 2009" "Across all the nations within the UK, there were 2,601 corporate insolvencies in November, which was 20% up on November 2022 and a remarkable 60% higher than pre-pandemic in November 2019. Looking at the cumulative position for the eleven months to the end of November, there had been 24,460 failures, a rise of 15% on 2022 and 41% for 2019" opusllp.com/blog/is-the-uk-heading-for-record-corporate-insolvencies-in-2023/Employment Rate (most recent available October 2023) was 75.7% : July 2016 74.5% : January 1973 - entry to EEC 73%. It generally hovers around this percentage unless Oil Crisis, Worldwide Recession etc. The number of people employed increases as the Population increases, who knew. www.statista.com/statistics/281992/employment-rate-in-the-united-kingdom/Real term Wages grew 1.4% in 2023 which is very much in line with the last 20 years www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 10, 2024 10:46:59 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 10, 2024 11:10:57 GMT
Starmer should lead with that in PMQs
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 10, 2024 12:32:50 GMT
Starmer should lead with that in PMQs
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 10, 2024 12:51:50 GMT
Luckily it's an election year.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 10, 2024 14:57:20 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 10, 2024 17:50:42 GMT
Haven't we just found out what happens, when we let an organisation marks it's own homework? What he's doing couldn't be more transparent. But. He. Simply. Doesn't. Give. A. Toss.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 10, 2024 17:59:39 GMT
Let’s address the elephant in the room on this thread. WHERE IS BLUERS?!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 10, 2024 18:04:52 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 10, 2024 18:05:36 GMT
Just look at Hunt's face, as Lewis absolutely skewers him, with some cast in stone facts!
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Post by Veritas on Jan 10, 2024 18:31:19 GMT
Just look at Hunt's face, as Lewis absolutely skewers him, with some cast in stone facts! The really bad thing is Hunt does understand the numbers but is quite prepared to tell bare faced lies.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 10, 2024 18:41:39 GMT
Reform really are UKIP v2 aren't they. While not being right wing myself, I was excited by the prospect of another right wing party which could potentially deliver for those that way inclined without being knee deep in corruption. They've challenged the tories on where they've failed for their supporters and seemed to be a good opposition even promising to stand a candidate in every constituency just a few weeks ago. Just like UKIP though they appear to be a tory enabling party which are only interested in challenging sears the torys can't win and staying away from tight seats to allow the corrupt torys more chance of success. Funny considering all the chat from Sunak trying to imply Lib Dem/Labour are a coalition over the summer. This is the tory parry which went into a coalition with Lib Dem, did a deal with the DUP to get a majority and have had UKIP bow over for them at every ask for the last decade. UKIP have won one seat at a GE and 2 at a by election in their 30 year history - absolutely pathetic. Reform seem to now be much the same. If you have right wing views in this country it seems the only option is to be represented is if it comes with a large dollop of corruption to the highest bidding tory donors too. The more I think about it the more I think Reform/UKIP aren't proper parties with any political aspirations at all. Feels more like a set of fake parties under the thumb of the conservatives to split votes where they feel its beneficial. Yes but the quirks of FPTP voting system gave UKIP 1 seat for nearly 4 million votes. Contrast that with SNP 56 seats for just under 1.5 million votes at the 2015 GE. I’m no UKIP voter but that highlights the absurdity of our democratic voting system.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 11, 2024 7:21:50 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Jan 11, 2024 8:55:04 GMT
Reform really are UKIP v2 aren't they. While not being right wing myself, I was excited by the prospect of another right wing party which could potentially deliver for those that way inclined without being knee deep in corruption. They've challenged the tories on where they've failed for their supporters and seemed to be a good opposition even promising to stand a candidate in every constituency just a few weeks ago. Just like UKIP though they appear to be a tory enabling party which are only interested in challenging sears the torys can't win and staying away from tight seats to allow the corrupt torys more chance of success. Funny considering all the chat from Sunak trying to imply Lib Dem/Labour are a coalition over the summer. This is the tory parry which went into a coalition with Lib Dem, did a deal with the DUP to get a majority and have had UKIP bow over for them at every ask for the last decade. UKIP have won one seat at a GE and 2 at a by election in their 30 year history - absolutely pathetic. Reform seem to now be much the same. If you have right wing views in this country it seems the only option is to be represented is if it comes with a large dollop of corruption to the highest bidding tory donors too. The more I think about it the more I think Reform/UKIP aren't proper parties with any political aspirations at all. Feels more like a set of fake parties under the thumb of the conservatives to split votes where they feel its beneficial. Yes but the quirks of FPTP voting system gave UKIP 1 seat for nearly 4 million votes. Contrast that with SNP 56 seats for just under 1.5 million votes at the 2015 GE. I’m no UKIP voter but that highlights the absurdity of our democratic voting system. Reforming the vote is great to split up our two party monopoly Reform the party won’t get anywhere until they become a central party not affiliated to the left or right and with a mix of candidates to prove it
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 12, 2024 16:37:59 GMT
If in doubt nip across to Ukraine for a photo op.
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Post by essexstokey on Jan 12, 2024 22:46:43 GMT
Tory playbook 101 when In trouble start a war or go to a war country and show support even better do Both
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 21:41:06 GMT
We just continue to embarass ourselves on the World stage ...
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