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Post by mrcoke on Dec 24, 2023 13:03:03 GMT
I don't think you would really but here goes: 1. As has already been pointed out most countries saw a huge increase in debt as a result of the pandemic. Then some nations have been affected more or less than others by the energy price inflation as a result of the war in Ukraine; some energy producing countries like North America have actually gained. 2. So how bad is the UK government debt? I leave it for you to judge: www.visualcapitalist.com/government-debt-by-country-advanced-economies/Of the G7 economies only Germany has lower government debt as a % GDP than the UK 3. If Japan has debt of 200% GDP, how important is it? Well that depends on who the debt is owed to. Most debt is owed to financial institutions. If you have a pension it is quite probable it is owed a lot of money by the government. So the nation owes a lot of its debt to itself for future generations to pay back. What matters more to me is balance of trade/Investment, I.e. how much money is leaving the country each year. Functioning with a huge trade deficit means we are gradually getting poorer. The UK trade deficit with Germany has been running at £0.5 billion per week.
oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/gbr/partner/deu4. How bad are the Tories? Very bad. Were the Labour governments better? No . Government debt doubled under the last Labour government. Putting it mildly the UK economy has been a basket case since the Thatcher years. Generally speaking most UK governments incur more debt than their predecessors in recent decades. www.statista.com/statistics/282647/government-debt-uk/5. Why is the British economy so poor, cannot afford proper public services, and in terms of GDP per head slipping down the table over the decades? Why for most of the 20th century did equality improve in the UK until the 1970s? I could post at long length again on that subject, but intead refer you to my post on the Brexit thread about the damage done to the UK economy during membership of the EEC and EU. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7952442/thread1 and 2: I agree with Civil, probably for different reasons that Debt to GDP is misleading A better measure is Debt to GDP Ratio. Debt-to-GDP ratio compares a country’s debt to its annual economic output. When you look at comparative Countries its easy to see why the UK Economy is a mess Government Debt Ratio as % of GDP Croatia 687.99% Greece 237.13% Japan 217.61% United Kingdom 186.48%Singapore 153.80% Spain 135.82% United States 120.37% France 116.55% Belgium 109.22% Iceland 96.87% San Marino 95.12% Austria 94.32% Hungary 86.91% Bahamas 86.19% Slovak Republic 79.25% Australia 70.18% Ireland 65.40% Canada 64.04% New Zealand 50.99% South Korea 49.16% Lithuania 48.91% Sweden 40.66% Estonia 23.67% Switzerland 20.30 www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/debt-to-gdp-ratio3. You use Japan as a comparator, but it's not About 70% of Japan's Debt is owed to Bank of Japan the remainder to Japanese Banks. Japan doesn't borrow on the International Market A comfortable position which Japanese Government can control About 25% of UK Debt is owed to Bank of England. The majority due to Quantitative Easing, a polite way of saying Printing Money, during Covid The remaining 75% is owed to International Banks, Pension Funds and Investors who monitor closely what actions UK Government make and react negatively when they do stupid things as we saw under Truss. A very uncomfortable position which UK Government has no control of 4. I agree with most of that but you omit that Thatcher "sold off the family silver" the proceeds of which went to the Treasury therefore no borrowing requirement. Of course these assets, formerly Public Utilities are now Monopolies generating Billions of Profits for Foreign Countries and Investors Another disastrous Thatcher decision was to Grant Oil Companies Licences to exploit North Sea Oil and Gas. At the same time Norway retained ownership of its Oil and Gas and invested the profits into a Sovereign Fund one of the biggest in the World. Making Norwegians per Capita one if not the wealthiest in the World 5. I didn't bother correcting your previous post but as you have regurgitated it. In 1950 GDP per Capita was about one third higher than the average of the original EEC 6 Having twice been refused permission by De Gaulle in the 1960s to join EEC, UK finally joined in 1973 as "the sick man of Europe. At the time of joining GDP per capita in UK had shrunk from 33% above to 10% below the average of the EEC 6 It has remained in that relative position ever since Thankyou for your response. So in essence you agree with me. I used the same debt parameter used in the original post and the same measure to compare with Japan. You have chosen a different comparison parameter, which shows the UK in an even worse light. I agree with your comment on Thatcher, who I fought hard against as a member of the Liberal Party. Nevertheless the last time we had any respectable economic growth was under her governments, not forgetting she did huge social damage to this country. By the same token the economy fared well under Blair/Brown but at the cost of huge personal borrowing debt by the nation. Labour did nothing to respond to the danger signs of institution failures due to toxic debt in 2007, which Blair later admitted, and consequently the UK was very badly placed to cope with the 2008 financial crisis. Labour then handed the poisoned chalice to the Tories. To summarise we joined the EEC as "the sick man of Europe", but things have gof no better, worse in fact during our time in the EU, and our economy got sicker in the sense we became Europe's "Treasure Island" with not only increased national debt, a massive trade deficit with the EU, and just to add insult to injury a net financial contribution every one of the 47 years we were members. As I have repeatedly posted it will take significant time to undo the damage done to this country by EU membership, whichever party is in power. fullfact.org/europe/is-the-uk-really-the-eus-treasure-island/
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 24, 2023 13:13:43 GMT
I think that it’s really impressive how stupid some people are. Say stupid things with your friends. Act professional at your job. Hardly difficult. It's the second time now though he should be gone
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Post by wannabee on Dec 24, 2023 14:28:51 GMT
1 and 2: I agree with Civil, probably for different reasons that Debt to GDP is misleading A better measure is Debt to GDP Ratio. Debt-to-GDP ratio compares a country’s debt to its annual economic output. When you look at comparative Countries its easy to see why the UK Economy is a mess Government Debt Ratio as % of GDP Croatia 687.99% Greece 237.13% Japan 217.61% United Kingdom 186.48%Singapore 153.80% Spain 135.82% United States 120.37% France 116.55% Belgium 109.22% Iceland 96.87% San Marino 95.12% Austria 94.32% Hungary 86.91% Bahamas 86.19% Slovak Republic 79.25% Australia 70.18% Ireland 65.40% Canada 64.04% New Zealand 50.99% South Korea 49.16% Lithuania 48.91% Sweden 40.66% Estonia 23.67% Switzerland 20.30 www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/debt-to-gdp-ratio3. You use Japan as a comparator, but it's not About 70% of Japan's Debt is owed to Bank of Japan the remainder to Japanese Banks. Japan doesn't borrow on the International Market A comfortable position which Japanese Government can control About 25% of UK Debt is owed to Bank of England. The majority due to Quantitative Easing, a polite way of saying Printing Money, during Covid The remaining 75% is owed to International Banks, Pension Funds and Investors who monitor closely what actions UK Government make and react negatively when they do stupid things as we saw under Truss. A very uncomfortable position which UK Government has no control of 4. I agree with most of that but you omit that Thatcher "sold off the family silver" the proceeds of which went to the Treasury therefore no borrowing requirement. Of course these assets, formerly Public Utilities are now Monopolies generating Billions of Profits for Foreign Countries and Investors Another disastrous Thatcher decision was to Grant Oil Companies Licences to exploit North Sea Oil and Gas. At the same time Norway retained ownership of its Oil and Gas and invested the profits into a Sovereign Fund one of the biggest in the World. Making Norwegians per Capita one if not the wealthiest in the World 5. I didn't bother correcting your previous post but as you have regurgitated it. In 1950 GDP per Capita was about one third higher than the average of the original EEC 6 Having twice been refused permission by De Gaulle in the 1960s to join EEC, UK finally joined in 1973 as "the sick man of Europe. At the time of joining GDP per capita in UK had shrunk from 33% above to 10% below the average of the EEC 6 It has remained in that relative position ever since Thankyou for your response. So in essence you agree with me. I used the same debt parameter used in the original post and the same measure to compare with Japan. You have chosen a different comparison parameter, which shows the UK in an even worse light. I agree with your comment on Thatcher, who I fought hard against as a member of the Liberal Party. Nevertheless the last time we had any respectable economic growth was under her governments, not forgetting she did huge social damage to this country. By the same token the economy fared well under Blair/Brown but at the cost of huge personal borrowing debt by the nation. Labour did nothing to respond to the danger signs of institution failures due to toxic debt in 2007, which Blair later admitted, and consequently the UK was very badly placed to cope with the 2008 financial crisis. Labour then handed the poisoned chalice to the Tories. To summarise we joined the EEC as "the sick man of Europe", but things have gof no better, worse in fact during our time in the EU, and our economy got sicker in the sense we became Europe's "Treasure Island" with not only increased national debt, a massive trade deficit with the EU, and just to add insult to injury a net financial contribution every one of the 47 years we were members. As I have repeatedly posted it will take significant time to undo the damage done to this country by EU membership, whichever party is in power. fullfact.org/europe/is-the-uk-really-the-eus-treasure-island/I don't disagree with much of what you have written here my point of departure was that UK Economy had been on the slide for decades before joining EEC. Since joining that slide has been arrested. Relative to most other Countries it has done no better nor worse I also agree we have been ill served by successive Administrations, this lot seem particularly bad, perhaps it's familiarity. The American phrase "A day late and a Dollar short" springs to mind You have correctly said in the past that Governments don't create Wealth but the conditions to do so. Successive Governments seem to be reactive rather than proactive and quite often with the wrong solution to the wrong problem It doesn't take a genius to work out that UKs biggest problem is poor productivity which can only be addressed by Investment and Upskilling At a period of time when Interest Rates were historically low for a period of 12 years the current Administration embarked on austerity to get out of a Worldwide Recession. There were no specific initiatives to encourage Investment or Upskilling of the Workforce. Industry responded to lack of initiative and uncertainty by recruitment at the lowest cost. This formulae is being repeated albeit from a different source. Since joining EEC UK GDP has grown by a factor of 16. Ireland joined the EEC at the same time as UK and it's GDP has grown by a factor of 70 Essentially the Irish Government created the conditions for Growth. A highly Educated Young Population, a low Tax Regime and incentives for R&D in Ireland so it wasn't just a widget maker. I'm not necessarily saying this model would have worked for UK but each Country has to look at its USP and shape it's Economy around that. To a large extent the UK has done that by focussing on Financial Services and Banking but that model only fulfills the needs of a few and creates division You believe that Brexit will be transformative, I'm not convinced but neither of us can say for certain. My biggest doubt resides with those charged with executing Brexit as I see no particular plan to do anything different than do more of the same with different people Time will tell. Happy Christmas
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Post by gawa on Dec 24, 2023 16:07:06 GMT
Enjoying this @wannabe / mrcoke debate as a spectator. Both raising very good points. Keep er lit.
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Post by gawa on Dec 24, 2023 16:07:20 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 24, 2023 17:59:59 GMT
Thankyou for your response. So in essence you agree with me. I used the same debt parameter used in the original post and the same measure to compare with Japan. You have chosen a different comparison parameter, which shows the UK in an even worse light. I agree with your comment on Thatcher, who I fought hard against as a member of the Liberal Party. Nevertheless the last time we had any respectable economic growth was under her governments, not forgetting she did huge social damage to this country. By the same token the economy fared well under Blair/Brown but at the cost of huge personal borrowing debt by the nation. Labour did nothing to respond to the danger signs of institution failures due to toxic debt in 2007, which Blair later admitted, and consequently the UK was very badly placed to cope with the 2008 financial crisis. Labour then handed the poisoned chalice to the Tories. To summarise we joined the EEC as "the sick man of Europe", but things have gof no better, worse in fact during our time in the EU, and our economy got sicker in the sense we became Europe's "Treasure Island" with not only increased national debt, a massive trade deficit with the EU, and just to add insult to injury a net financial contribution every one of the 47 years we were members. As I have repeatedly posted it will take significant time to undo the damage done to this country by EU membership, whichever party is in power. fullfact.org/europe/is-the-uk-really-the-eus-treasure-island/I don't disagree with much of what you have written here my point of departure was that UK Economy had been on the slide for decades before joining EEC. Since joining that slide has been arrested. Relative to most other Countries it has done no better nor worse I also agree we have been ill served by successive Administrations, this lot seem particularly bad, perhaps it's familiarity. The American phrase "A day late and a Dollar short" springs to mind You have correctly said in the past that Governments don't create Wealth but the conditions to do so. Successive Governments seem to be reactive rather than proactive and quite often with the wrong solution to the wrong problem It doesn't take a genius to work out that UKs biggest problem is poor productivity which can only be addressed by Investment and Upskilling At a period of time when Interest Rates were historically low for a period of 12 years the current Administration embarked on austerity to get out of a Worldwide Recession. There were no specific initiatives to encourage Investment or Upskilling of the Workforce. Industry responded to lack of initiative and uncertainty by recruitment at the lowest cost. This formulae is being repeated albeit from a different source. Since joining EEC UK GDP has grown by a factor of 16. Ireland joined the EEC at the same time as UK and it's GDP has grown by a factor of 70 Essentially the Irish Government created the conditions for Growth. A highly Educated Young Population, a low Tax Regime and incentives for R&D in Ireland so it wasn't just a widget maker. I'm not necessarily saying this model would have worked for UK but each Country has to look at its USP and shape it's Economy around that. To a large extent the UK has done that by focussing on Financial Services and Banking but that model only fulfills the needs of a few and creates division You believe that Brexit will be transformative, I'm not convinced but neither of us can say for certain. My biggest doubt resides with those charged with executing Brexit as I see no particular plan to do anything different than do more of the same with different people Time will tell. Happy Christmas Thank you for your response and Christmas greeting. I pleased you agree with much of what I had written but have to take issue with your statement: "the economy had been on the slide for decades before joining EEC. Since joining that slide has been arrested. Relative to most other Countries it has done no better nor worse" I spelt out my views at length on the Brexit thread, page 1,567. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7952442/threadI pointed out there that from 1955 to 1973 UK GDP per capita grew at 3.68% pa. After joining the EEC from 1973 to 2019, UK GDP per capita grew at 2.1% pa. That is not arresting a slide, it is significantly worse. Even the best performing years from 1992 to 2007 when the economy grew at 2.68% in terms of GDP per capita, it was lower than the period prior to joining the EEC. You correctly point out the UK's poor productivity due to lack of investment in plant and people. The reason is the easy access of cheap labour, originally post WW2 from the Commonwealth and post millennium from Eastern Europe, with many from Southern Europe. The UK capitalist have always looked to the short term return rather than long term investment. Let someone else train people and we will steal their labour by paying a few per cent more. Better to invest in the far east or Eastern Europe where labour and energy is cheap than the UK has long been the case. But then you go and mention Ireland and make my temperature rise. As you say, Ireland joined the EEC at the same time as the UK. From 1973 up to 2018 Ireland was a net recipient of over €40 billion in EU funds and there can be no doubt that Ireland has benefited massively doing the things you describe. The UK on the other hand made a net financial contribution for 47 years equivalent to £1 trillion in today’s value of the £. Good luck to Ireland and others like Spain and Poland that have benefited massively at British tax payers expense, but the party is over and the UK has left the EU and it is up to future UK governments to make the best of it without Brussels. How Brexit will transform the UK is in the hands of the British and Northern Irish people, I do not subscribe to the view that the government is in control of everything. The UK is still a world leading country because of its people, and despite the governments we manage to elect and having been in the EU. Merry Christmas to you also.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 24, 2023 23:10:07 GMT
I don't disagree with much of what you have written here my point of departure was that UK Economy had been on the slide for decades before joining EEC. Since joining that slide has been arrested. Relative to most other Countries it has done no better nor worse I also agree we have been ill served by successive Administrations, this lot seem particularly bad, perhaps it's familiarity. The American phrase "A day late and a Dollar short" springs to mind You have correctly said in the past that Governments don't create Wealth but the conditions to do so. Successive Governments seem to be reactive rather than proactive and quite often with the wrong solution to the wrong problem It doesn't take a genius to work out that UKs biggest problem is poor productivity which can only be addressed by Investment and Upskilling At a period of time when Interest Rates were historically low for a period of 12 years the current Administration embarked on austerity to get out of a Worldwide Recession. There were no specific initiatives to encourage Investment or Upskilling of the Workforce. Industry responded to lack of initiative and uncertainty by recruitment at the lowest cost. This formulae is being repeated albeit from a different source. Since joining EEC UK GDP has grown by a factor of 16. Ireland joined the EEC at the same time as UK and it's GDP has grown by a factor of 70 Essentially the Irish Government created the conditions for Growth. A highly Educated Young Population, a low Tax Regime and incentives for R&D in Ireland so it wasn't just a widget maker. I'm not necessarily saying this model would have worked for UK but each Country has to look at its USP and shape it's Economy around that. To a large extent the UK has done that by focussing on Financial Services and Banking but that model only fulfills the needs of a few and creates division You believe that Brexit will be transformative, I'm not convinced but neither of us can say for certain. My biggest doubt resides with those charged with executing Brexit as I see no particular plan to do anything different than do more of the same with different people Time will tell. Happy Christmas Thank you for your response and Christmas greeting. I pleased you agree with much of what I had written but have to take issue with your statement: "the economy had been on the slide for decades before joining EEC. Since joining that slide has been arrested. Relative to most other Countries it has done no better nor worse" I spelt out my views at length on the Brexit thread, page 1,567. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7952442/threadI pointed out there that from 1955 to 1973 UK GDP per capita grew at 3.68% pa. After joining the EEC from 1973 to 2019, UK GDP per capita grew at 2.1% pa. That is not arresting a slide, it is significantly worse. Even the best performing years from 1992 to 2007 when the economy grew at 2.68% in terms of GDP per capita, it was lower than the period prior to joining the EEC. You correctly point out the UK's poor productivity due to lack of investment in plant and people. The reason is the easy access of cheap labour, originally post WW2 from the Commonwealth and post millennium from Eastern Europe, with many from Southern Europe. The UK capitalist have always looked to the short term return rather than long term investment. Let someone else train people and we will steal their labour by paying a few per cent more. Better to invest in the far east or Eastern Europe where labour and energy is cheap than the UK has long been the case. But then you go and mention Ireland and make my temperature rise. As you say, Ireland joined the EEC at the same time as the UK. From 1973 up to 2018 Ireland was a net recipient of over €40 billion in EU funds and there can be no doubt that Ireland has benefited massively doing the things you describe. The UK on the other hand made a net financial contribution for 47 years equivalent to £1 trillion in today’s value of the £. Good luck to Ireland and others like Spain and Poland that have benefited massively at British tax payers expense, but the party is over and the UK has left the EU and it is up to future UK governments to make the best of it without Brussels. How Brexit will transform the UK is in the hands of the British and Northern Irish people, I do not subscribe to the view that the government is in control of everything. The UK is still a world leading country because of its people, and despite the governments we manage to elect and having been in the EU. Merry Christmas to you also. In the Season that's in it 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'” Acts 20:35 Everything is relative, I'll repeat what I posted before, it's the only statistic that is relevant but one you seem eager to ignore In 1950, UK’s per capita GDP was almost a third larger than the EEC 6 average per capita GDP ; in 1973 on joining EEC it was about 10% below !!!Its irrelevant that UK Economy was doing better/OK in the period before joining the EEC than the period after joining, it was doing considerably worse than EEC 6 before joining EEC and relatively the same as EEC 6 after joining. You're presenting a false equivalence Surely this isn't a difficult equation to grasp Outside EEC UK performed worse than those within EEC. Inside EEC UK performed, as you'd expect, about the same as others. You may be satisfied with the UK Growth in the period 1950 to 1973 and it's certainly better than current but the reality is that the EEC 6 growth in the same period far outperformed the UK Ireland has received €40Bn in Net Contributions Ireland has been a Net Contributor to EU Budget since 2014 In the current EU 7 year budget cycle Ireland will pay on average €3.5Bn per year in Net Contributions so net net it will be in equilibrium soon The point of EU is to raise living and other Standards in lower performing areas which will ultimately benefit the higher performing areas. Its called Leveling Up, a concept UK Government has heard about but has no idea of how to implement
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 25, 2023 8:48:34 GMT
Would love mrcoke opinion on this. I don't think you would really but here goes: 1. As has already been pointed out most countries saw a huge increase in debt as a result of the pandemic. Then some nations have been affected more or less than others by the energy price inflation as a result of the war in Ukraine; some energy producing countries like North America have actually gained. 2. So how bad is the UK government debt? I leave it for you to judge: www.visualcapitalist.com/government-debt-by-country-advanced-economies/Of the G7 economies only Germany has lower government debt as a % GDP than the UK 3. If Japan has debt of 200% GDP, how important is it? Well that depends on who the debt is owed to. Most debt is owed to financial institutions. If you have a pension it is quite probable it is owed a lot of money by the government. So the nation owes a lot of its debt to itself for future generations to pay back. What matters more to me is balance of trade/Investment, I.e. how much money is leaving the country each year. Functioning with a huge trade deficit means we are gradually getting poorer. The UK trade deficit with Germany has been running at £0.5 billion per week.
oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/gbr/partner/deu4. How bad are the Tories? Very bad. Were the Labour governments better? No . Government debt doubled under the last Labour government. Putting it mildly the UK economy has been a basket case since the Thatcher years. Generally speaking most UK governments incur more debt than their predecessors in recent decades. www.statista.com/statistics/282647/government-debt-uk/5. Why is the British economy so poor, cannot afford proper public services, and in terms of GDP per head slipping down the table over the decades? Why for most of the 20th century did equality improve in the UK until the 1970s? I could post at long length again on that subject, but intead refer you to my post on the Brexit thread about the damage done to the UK economy during membership of the EEC and EU. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7952442/threadI used to be concerned about our national debt. Then along came the pandemic & for two years money was falling out of trees like confetti.
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 25, 2023 9:01:32 GMT
Wonder how many tory mps will turn up for 10 min at homeless shelters today for a photo opp
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 11:26:33 GMT
This thread shouldn't be on the second page. Slacking lads
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 28, 2023 11:35:24 GMT
This thread shouldn't be on the second page. Slacking lads It’s been a lovely 48 hours or so
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 28, 2023 13:48:43 GMT
Wonder how many tory mps will turn up for 10 min at homeless shelters today for a photo opp Bit like this bloke except he’s labour so it won’t fit your pathetic Government bashing agenda where even Christmas Day doesn’t get a break. Ffs give it a rest it’s boring, From Politico on Christmas morning…… Jeremy Corbyn, independent MP: “I visit the town hall where our local homeless shelter, Streets Kitchen, hosts a Christmas dinner for people experiencing homelessness. I like talking to people there, listening to their stories and eating mince pies together.”
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 28, 2023 14:11:57 GMT
Wonder how many tory mps will turn up for 10 min at homeless shelters today for a photo opp Bit like this bloke except he’s labour so it won’t fit your pathetic Government bashing agenda where even Christmas Day doesn’t get a break. Ffs give it a rest it’s boring, From Politico on Christmas morning…… Jeremy Corbyn, independent MP: “I visit the town hall where our local homeless shelter, Streets Kitchen, hosts a Christmas dinner for people experiencing homelessness. I like talking to people there, listening to their stories and eating mince pies together.” Except that he does it every year and generally takes a great interest in his constituency ALL YEAR ROUND AND not just at certain times of the year.
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 14:19:08 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas?
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 14:26:20 GMT
Wonder how many tory mps will turn up for 10 min at homeless shelters today for a photo opp Bit like this bloke except he’s labour so it won’t fit your pathetic Government bashing agenda where even Christmas Day doesn’t get a break. Ffs give it a rest it’s boring, From Politico on Christmas morning…… Jeremy Corbyn, independent MP: “I visit the town hall where our local homeless shelter, Streets Kitchen, hosts a Christmas dinner for people experiencing homelessness. I like talking to people there, listening to their stories and eating mince pies together.” Jeremy Corbyn isn't Labour, he's an independant. And when the Grenfell disaster hit he was on the ground the same day meeting residents affected and continued to do so many times in the aftermath as well as regularly speaking up for the victims in Westminster still till this day. Our Prime Minister Theresa May did a private unannounced appearance the day after where she didn't meet a single victim and showed little empathy. They're not the same.
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 28, 2023 14:41:04 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas? This is basically a middle finger to the red wall: Thanks, you've served your purpose, now eff off.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 14:51:15 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas? I personally don’t like the idea of inheritance tax to be honest. Work hard for your family, pay tax on that income and then pay more tax on it at death when giving it to loved ones. If they shored up methods for collecting taxable income on other matters, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to remove this entirely.
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 15:28:47 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas? I personally don’t like the idea of inheritance tax to be honest. Work hard for your family, pay tax on that income and then pay more tax on it at death when giving it to loved ones. If they shored up methods for collecting taxable income on other matters, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to remove this entirely. If you're passing to a spouse it's tax free up to 325k and for children or grand children tax free to 500k. Plenty of loopholes and mechanisms exist to avoid it or lower it too. This is the government though which said there wasn't enough money in the pot to fund free school meals for kids in poverty at a cost of £4.5 million. So it's quite startling that they want to scrap inheritance tax at a cost of £7 billion to the tax payer.
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 15:39:53 GMT
Johnny Mercer is meant to be cabinet minister for veterans.
Said he was going to end homelessness for veterans but instead it's increased by 14% this year.
When criticised by another veteran he criticised them equating their 7 years service to "5 minutes".
Can the torys stoop and lower. Even sticking the knife into our veterans now too while record levels of them are homeless under this government.
His wife must be the highest paid receptionist in the country. An inflation busting 3x salary pay rise in 6 years.
No money for doctors or nurses. But the never ending money pit always their for tory friends, family and donors.
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Post by AlliG on Dec 28, 2023 17:12:34 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas? Is that the 19th or 20th century? I must admit that with JRM I am not sure whether he lives in the 18th or 19th century.
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 28, 2023 17:17:24 GMT
Johnny Mercer is meant to be cabinet minister for veterans. Said he was going to end homelessness for veterans but instead it's increased by 14% this year. When criticised by another veteran he criticised them equating their 7 years service to "5 minutes". Can the torys stoop and lower. Even sticking the knife into our veterans now too while record levels of them are homeless under this government. His wife must be the highest paid receptionist in the country. An inflation busting 3x salary pay rise in 6 years. No money for doctors or nurses. But the never ending money pit always their for tory friends, family and donors. Mercer gets his wife to fight his online battles for him. She's currently losing big time on Twitter to someone she refers to as "Voldemorte". Such dignity.
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 28, 2023 17:25:19 GMT
Wonder how many tory mps will turn up for 10 min at homeless shelters today for a photo opp Bit like this bloke except he’s labour so it won’t fit your pathetic Government bashing agenda where even Christmas Day doesn’t get a break. Ffs give it a rest it’s boring, From Politico on Christmas morning…… Jeremy Corbyn, independent MP: “I visit the town hall where our local homeless shelter, Streets Kitchen, hosts a Christmas dinner for people experiencing homelessness. I like talking to people there, listening to their stories and eating mince pies together.” The point is jeremy does this all year round meeting his constituents having his salary to local courses That's why he's a respected local mp
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 28, 2023 18:25:27 GMT
What an excellent idea. I wonder who will benefit most from this? Any ideas? I personally don’t like the idea of inheritance tax to be honest. Work hard for your family, pay tax on that income and then pay more tax on it at death when giving it to loved ones. If they shored up methods for collecting taxable income on other matters, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to remove this entirely. If you organise your affairs in accordance with the rules, you won’t pay IHT on the first £1M of your estate. So it is a tax for only the very wealthy. It is the exact type of taxation we need. Although I agree tax on income, but more so on capital, should be adjusted and made simpler to make sure the rich pay the greatest percentage of their total wealth to the tax man rather than the poor/middle which is the case at the moment.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 28, 2023 18:41:27 GMT
Bit like this bloke except he’s labour so it won’t fit your pathetic Government bashing agenda where even Christmas Day doesn’t get a break. Ffs give it a rest it’s boring, From Politico on Christmas morning…… Jeremy Corbyn, independent MP: “I visit the town hall where our local homeless shelter, Streets Kitchen, hosts a Christmas dinner for people experiencing homelessness. I like talking to people there, listening to their stories and eating mince pies together.” The point is jeremy does this all year round meeting his constituents having his salary to local courses That's why he's a respected local mp So your bezzy mate Jezza does it and that’s ok but if a Conservative mp pops in to say hello to homeless people on Christmas Day it’s a photo opportunity. What bubbles you chat
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Post by gawa on Dec 28, 2023 18:46:11 GMT
To be fair to Lawrie, Suella Braverman took some time out recently to visit Fareham Fishing.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 28, 2023 18:47:32 GMT
Big Nige in a min, don’t miss it
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 28, 2023 19:28:10 GMT
The point is jeremy does this all year round meeting his constituents having his salary to local courses That's why he's a respected local mp So your bezzy mate Jezza does it and that’s ok but if a Conservative mp pops in to say hello to homeless people on Christmas Day it’s a photo opportunity. What bubbles you chat The point is that Corbyn just gets on with it, day in, day out. Doesn't usually arrange for the media to be there.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 20:00:47 GMT
I personally don’t like the idea of inheritance tax to be honest. Work hard for your family, pay tax on that income and then pay more tax on it at death when giving it to loved ones. If they shored up methods for collecting taxable income on other matters, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to remove this entirely. If you're passing to a spouse it's tax free up to 325k and for children or grand children tax free to 500k. Plenty of loopholes and mechanisms exist to avoid it or lower it too. This is the government though which said there wasn't enough money in the pot to fund free school meals for kids in poverty at a cost of £4.5 million. So it's quite startling that they want to scrap inheritance tax at a cost of £7 billion to the tax payer. Yeah. I think that you should be able to do both. I believe in a graduated tax system. It should just be applied to total, regular income, which it currently isn’t. They’d earn much more money than the token amounts here. Not feeding kids is a) morally wrong and b) financially foolish. Kids growing up without proper nutrition have more problems later in life.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 28, 2023 20:10:43 GMT
They are literally laughing us, they genuinely believe that we're all thick as mince ...
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 28, 2023 20:41:18 GMT
They are literally laughing us, they genuinely believe that we're all thick as mince ... I'm no fan of the Tories but it is true that the likely outturn for 2023 will be down by a third - thanks in part to a returns deal with Albania and to greater co-operation with the French. www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-trackerIn achieving this it does show what meaningful diplomacy an co-operation can achieve and why Rwanda is just posturing
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