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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2023 16:38:47 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2023 18:02:01 GMT
The problem is most jobs are being replaced with automation and robots. If someone told you 40 years ago that mos high Street shops would be gone, they'd be replaced mostly with one company called amazon, the warehouses would use robots to do alot of the manual labour and drones would be used to start to deliver parcels (announced being trialed in uk City this year). Then you'd sort of expect in 40 years that we'd all benefit from these advances. What we have instead though is the owner of said company being the richest man in the world. And every job he replaces with a robot or automation only he benefits from and sees the profit. So a retail industry which once employed loads of people is now replaced and monopolised by one company who sets up businesses across the world and then uses tax dodging tricks to evade paying their taxes. And as a result inequality grows because most of the profits which were shared across multiple businesses employing loads of people are mostly going to one business who replaces people with robots and computers. And who benefits from that? One person. And who enables it? Our governments. The technological advances we've had means there's less need for manual work compared to years gone by. There's less jobs in those sectors. And one person benefits hugely from this and the rest of us just have to accept it and "get a job". There are c. 1 million job vacancies. www.statista.com/statistics/283771/monthly-job-vacancies-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Unemployment and redundancies are running at the lowest level for decades. The government issue well over 40,000 temporary work visas per year for jobs UK citizens don't want to do. This year British workers are enjoying the highest average wage increases in the G7. UK productivity is very poor by international standards due to decades of lack of investment in automation, robotics, etc. The UK is one of the worst in the OECD for productivity because employers could simply hire cheap foreign labour. This has also depressed UK wage increase in the past, but now freedom of movement has stopped employers are having to pay more and invest in modern methods. www.roboticsandautomationmagazine.co.uk/news/investments/a-third-of-uk-businesses-investing-in-automation-due-to-staffing-concerns-hsbc-finds.htmlSorry if I sound like a Tory, but I am a true supporter of the working class and delighted to see increased job security, higher pay, and more investment in businesses. This year for the first time in decades UK manufacturing is actually increasing employment and last year the UK moved up to 8th largest manufacturing country in the world overtaking France. (Italy are 7th) The increase is not in car manufacturing but high tech industries like aircraft, plus food processing which is increasing with less processed food being imported from the EU.
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Post by gawa on Oct 19, 2023 19:03:12 GMT
The problem is most jobs are being replaced with automation and robots. If someone told you 40 years ago that mos high Street shops would be gone, they'd be replaced mostly with one company called amazon, the warehouses would use robots to do alot of the manual labour and drones would be used to start to deliver parcels (announced being trialed in uk City this year). Then you'd sort of expect in 40 years that we'd all benefit from these advances. What we have instead though is the owner of said company being the richest man in the world. And every job he replaces with a robot or automation only he benefits from and sees the profit. So a retail industry which once employed loads of people is now replaced and monopolised by one company who sets up businesses across the world and then uses tax dodging tricks to evade paying their taxes. And as a result inequality grows because most of the profits which were shared across multiple businesses employing loads of people are mostly going to one business who replaces people with robots and computers. And who benefits from that? One person. And who enables it? Our governments. The technological advances we've had means there's less need for manual work compared to years gone by. There's less jobs in those sectors. And one person benefits hugely from this and the rest of us just have to accept it and "get a job". There are c. 1 million job vacancies. www.statista.com/statistics/283771/monthly-job-vacancies-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Unemployment and redundancies are running at the lowest level for decades. The government issue well over 40,000 temporary work visas per year for jobs UK citizens don't want to do. This year British workers are enjoying the highest average wage increases in the G7. UK productivity is very poor by international standards due to decades of lack of investment in automation, robotics, etc. The UK is one of the worst in the OECD for productivity because employers could simply hire cheap foreign labour. This has also depressed UK wage increase in the past, but now freedom of movement has stopped employers are having to pay more and invest in modern methods. www.roboticsandautomationmagazine.co.uk/news/investments/a-third-of-uk-businesses-investing-in-automation-due-to-staffing-concerns-hsbc-finds.htmlSorry if I sound like a Tory, but I am a true supporter of the working class and delighted to see increased job security, higher pay, and more investment in businesses. This year for the first time in decades UK manufacturing is actually increasing employment and last year the UK moved up to 8th largest manufacturing country in the world overtaking France. (Italy are 7th) The increase is not in car manufacturing but high tech industries like aircraft, plus food processing which is increasing with less processed food being imported from the EU. You raise good points and I'm not going to dispute there being a lack of jobs available. But I also think/know alot of jobs are being replaced with automation. And I think this is a trend which is going to keep accelerating at a fast pace. What worries me about it is these big corporations becoming less dependant on workers and how that's going to impact smaller companies from a competition point of view. Due to their scale and reach and control of the market, its becoming impossible for smaller companies on the high street to compete with big corporations. Due to the increase in international corporations it also means there's less loyalty to British staff and like you said outsourcing of work to cheaper economies. (From a brexit pov I agree with some points like this). I think as automation continues to accelerate and corporations continue to increase their share of global wealth that it's going to be working people who feel the brunt. Automation in my opinion should be used to improve our lives and make it easier for everyone. But now it feels very much like we have a few big corporations with loads of power who are winning the automation race and getting far too much power globally. How have we went from a country where women stayed at home and men worked, and people had improving quality of lives with less inequality. To now where people need to work more and more just to keep a roof over their heads and inequality spirals. Automation and technology should be improving our lives. It seems to be significantly improving a small percentage though while the rest of us stafgnate or regress. And our politicians seem to turn a blind eye and allow it. And now it very much feels like we as a country need the corporations more than they need us now. As you can guess. I'm not a huge fan of capitalism or at least late stage capitalism. It just feels like the worlds becoming very greedy.
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Post by tuum on Oct 19, 2023 19:48:36 GMT
There are c. 1 million job vacancies. www.statista.com/statistics/283771/monthly-job-vacancies-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Unemployment and redundancies are running at the lowest level for decades. The government issue well over 40,000 temporary work visas per year for jobs UK citizens don't want to do. This year British workers are enjoying the highest average wage increases in the G7. UK productivity is very poor by international standards due to decades of lack of investment in automation, robotics, etc. The UK is one of the worst in the OECD for productivity because employers could simply hire cheap foreign labour. This has also depressed UK wage increase in the past, but now freedom of movement has stopped employers are having to pay more and invest in modern methods. www.roboticsandautomationmagazine.co.uk/news/investments/a-third-of-uk-businesses-investing-in-automation-due-to-staffing-concerns-hsbc-finds.htmlSorry if I sound like a Tory, but I am a true supporter of the working class and delighted to see increased job security, higher pay, and more investment in businesses. This year for the first time in decades UK manufacturing is actually increasing employment and last year the UK moved up to 8th largest manufacturing country in the world overtaking France. (Italy are 7th) The increase is not in car manufacturing but high tech industries like aircraft, plus food processing which is increasing with less processed food being imported from the EU. You raise good points and I'm not going to dispute there being a lack of jobs available. But I also think/know alot of jobs are being replaced with automation. And I think this is a trend which is going to keep accelerating at a fast pace. What worries me about it is these big corporations becoming less dependant on workers and how that's going to impact smaller companies from a competition point of view. Due to their scale and reach and control of the market, its becoming impossible for smaller companies on the high street to compete with big corporations. Due to the increase in international corporations it also means there's less loyalty to British staff and like you said outsourcing of work to cheaper economies. (From a brexit pov I agree with some points like this). I think as automation continues to accelerate and corporations continue to increase their share of global wealth that it's going to be working people who feel the brunt. Automation in my opinion should be used to improve our lives and make it easier for everyone. But now it feels very much like we have a few big corporations with loads of power who are winning the automation race and getting far too much power globally. How have we went from a country where women stayed at home and men worked, and people had improving quality of lives with less inequality. To now where people need to work more and more just to keep a roof over their heads and inequality spirals. Automation and technology should be improving our lives. It seems to be significantly improving a small percentage though while the rest of us stafgnate or regress. And our politicians seem to turn a blind eye and allow it. And now it very much feels like we as a country need the corporations more than they need us now. As you can guess. I'm not a huge fan of capitalism or at least late stage capitalism. It just feels like the worlds becoming very greedy. Have a look at the gap between the chief executive salary in 1970 and their average worker v the 2020 equivalent. The UK used to be near the Japanese and European model but we now seem to have adopted the American model of every man for himself (having said that I believe some Euro counties are showing a similar trend now). As a Civil Engineer I know that the Tarmac (Carillion) fiasco was not a one off. My mate is CEO (not owner) of a modest office supplies company and he earns 400k** plus while his workers average salary is about the same as it was 10 years ago. A divisional manager for a US oil company earns a basic 500k with bonuses equal to the same... probably 5 positions from the top. The CEO gets paid 30MM+ a year. 15 years ago the CEO got 8MM a year. Why is the current CEO so good? He delivered value to the shareholders. Nothing to do with the fact that oil went from $40 a barrel to $120 a barrel. Something over which he had no control. Having said that I think he is ok.... just not worth 30mm a year. An English guy I know is on the board of a few companies. When he resigns, he recommends a mate. In turn, he gets invited to join another board as a non-exec director. He is an ok guy but very open about how corrupt the system is. The only requisite to succeed as far as I can tell is to get to CEO status of any mid-size company. After that, networking takes over. The same happens at my level but the rewards are a fraction of those the CEO's enjoy. The world is less about ability and more about networking and self-promotion. The genie is out the box. Not sure how you get it back in again. I blame Thatcher. I could go on but I think I need to leave something in the tank to write to the Letters section of Private Eye.😉 ** all numbers quoted are ball-park only (except the oil company CEO whose salary is publically available).
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2023 20:36:22 GMT
Holy crap.....
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 19, 2023 21:14:38 GMT
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Post by lordb on Oct 19, 2023 21:45:52 GMT
You raise good points and I'm not going to dispute there being a lack of jobs available. But I also think/know alot of jobs are being replaced with automation. And I think this is a trend which is going to keep accelerating at a fast pace. What worries me about it is these big corporations becoming less dependant on workers and how that's going to impact smaller companies from a competition point of view. Due to their scale and reach and control of the market, its becoming impossible for smaller companies on the high street to compete with big corporations. Due to the increase in international corporations it also means there's less loyalty to British staff and like you said outsourcing of work to cheaper economies. (From a brexit pov I agree with some points like this). I think as automation continues to accelerate and corporations continue to increase their share of global wealth that it's going to be working people who feel the brunt. Automation in my opinion should be used to improve our lives and make it easier for everyone. But now it feels very much like we have a few big corporations with loads of power who are winning the automation race and getting far too much power globally. How have we went from a country where women stayed at home and men worked, and people had improving quality of lives with less inequality. To now where people need to work more and more just to keep a roof over their heads and inequality spirals. Automation and technology should be improving our lives. It seems to be significantly improving a small percentage though while the rest of us stafgnate or regress. And our politicians seem to turn a blind eye and allow it. And now it very much feels like we as a country need the corporations more than they need us now. As you can guess. I'm not a huge fan of capitalism or at least late stage capitalism. It just feels like the worlds becoming very greedy. Have a look at the gap between the chief executive salary in 1970 and their average worker v the 2020 equivalent. The UK used to be near the Japanese and European model but we now seem to have adopted the American model of every man for himself (having said that I believe some Euro counties are showing a similar trend now). As a Civil Engineer I know that the Tarmac (Carillion) fiasco was not a one off. My mate is CEO (not owner) of a modest office supplies company and he earns 400k** plus while his workers average salary is about the same as it was 10 years ago. A divisional manager for a US oil company earns a basic 500k with bonuses equal to the same... probably 5 positions from the top. The CEO gets paid 30MM+ a year. 15 years ago the CEO got 8MM a year. Why is the current CEO so good? He delivered value to the shareholders. Nothing to do with the fact that oil went from $40 a barrel to $120 a barrel. Something over which he had no control. Having said that I think he is ok.... just not worth 30mm a year. An English guy I know is on the board of a few companies. When he resigns, he recommends a mate. In turn, he gets invited to join another board as a non-exec director. He is an ok guy but very open about how corrupt the system is. The only requisite to succeed as far as I can tell is to get to CEO status of any mid-size company. After that, networking takes over. The same happens at my level but the rewards are a fraction of those the CEO's enjoy. The world is less about ability and more about networking and self-promotion. The genie is out the box. Not sure how you get it back in again. I blame Thatcher. I could go on but I think I need to leave something in the tank to write to the Letters section of Private Eye.😉 ** all numbers quoted are ball-park only (except the oil company CEO whose salary is publically available). I the 1970's the UK was one of the most equal societies in the world That all changed with Thatcher, by the end of the 80's we were one of the most inequal The gaps between rich and poor, between the South East of England and everywhere else have remained unchecked ever since Eventually, assuming no significant attempts to redress these gaps the pressure of these gaps can only end with whole swathes of society of regions and nations turning away from the accepted notion that London knows best If you apply pressure eventually it breaks
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2023 22:32:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2023 22:41:20 GMT
There are c. 1 million job vacancies. www.statista.com/statistics/283771/monthly-job-vacancies-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Unemployment and redundancies are running at the lowest level for decades. The government issue well over 40,000 temporary work visas per year for jobs UK citizens don't want to do. This year British workers are enjoying the highest average wage increases in the G7. UK productivity is very poor by international standards due to decades of lack of investment in automation, robotics, etc. The UK is one of the worst in the OECD for productivity because employers could simply hire cheap foreign labour. This has also depressed UK wage increase in the past, but now freedom of movement has stopped employers are having to pay more and invest in modern methods. www.roboticsandautomationmagazine.co.uk/news/investments/a-third-of-uk-businesses-investing-in-automation-due-to-staffing-concerns-hsbc-finds.htmlSorry if I sound like a Tory, but I am a true supporter of the working class and delighted to see increased job security, higher pay, and more investment in businesses. This year for the first time in decades UK manufacturing is actually increasing employment and last year the UK moved up to 8th largest manufacturing country in the world overtaking France. (Italy are 7th) The increase is not in car manufacturing but high tech industries like aircraft, plus food processing which is increasing with less processed food being imported from the EU. You raise good points and I'm not going to dispute there being a lack of jobs available. But I also think/know alot of jobs are being replaced with automation. And I think this is a trend which is going to keep accelerating at a fast pace. What worries me about it is these big corporations becoming less dependant on workers and how that's going to impact smaller companies from a competition point of view. Due to their scale and reach and control of the market, its becoming impossible for smaller companies on the high street to compete with big corporations. Due to the increase in international corporations it also means there's less loyalty to British staff and like you said outsourcing of work to cheaper economies. (From a brexit pov I agree with some points like this). I think as automation continues to accelerate and corporations continue to increase their share of global wealth that it's going to be working people who feel the brunt. Automation in my opinion should be used to improve our lives and make it easier for everyone. But now it feels very much like we have a few big corporations with loads of power who are winning the automation race and getting far too much power globally. How have we went from a country where women stayed at home and men worked, and people had improving quality of lives with less inequality. To now where people need to work more and more just to keep a roof over their heads and inequality spirals. Automation and technology should be improving our lives. It seems to be significantly improving a small percentage though while the rest of us stafgnate or regress. And our politicians seem to turn a blind eye and allow it. And now it very much feels like we as a country need the corporations more than they need us now. As you can guess. I'm not a huge fan of capitalism or at least late stage capitalism. It just feels like the worlds becoming very greedy. This problem repeats throughout history. At present, it’s AI and automation. The last generation had computing, go back many, many years and you have things the spinning jenny (for example). Every generation has to compete with a novel change in technology that has them wondering why the skills they’ve worked so hard to build are becoming less valued.
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Post by gawa on Oct 19, 2023 23:19:20 GMT
You raise good points and I'm not going to dispute there being a lack of jobs available. But I also think/know alot of jobs are being replaced with automation. And I think this is a trend which is going to keep accelerating at a fast pace. What worries me about it is these big corporations becoming less dependant on workers and how that's going to impact smaller companies from a competition point of view. Due to their scale and reach and control of the market, its becoming impossible for smaller companies on the high street to compete with big corporations. Due to the increase in international corporations it also means there's less loyalty to British staff and like you said outsourcing of work to cheaper economies. (From a brexit pov I agree with some points like this). I think as automation continues to accelerate and corporations continue to increase their share of global wealth that it's going to be working people who feel the brunt. Automation in my opinion should be used to improve our lives and make it easier for everyone. But now it feels very much like we have a few big corporations with loads of power who are winning the automation race and getting far too much power globally. How have we went from a country where women stayed at home and men worked, and people had improving quality of lives with less inequality. To now where people need to work more and more just to keep a roof over their heads and inequality spirals. Automation and technology should be improving our lives. It seems to be significantly improving a small percentage though while the rest of us stafgnate or regress. And our politicians seem to turn a blind eye and allow it. And now it very much feels like we as a country need the corporations more than they need us now. As you can guess. I'm not a huge fan of capitalism or at least late stage capitalism. It just feels like the worlds becoming very greedy. This problem repeats throughout history. At present, it’s AI and automation. The last generation had computing, go back many, many years and you have things the spinning jenny (for example). Every generation has to compete with a novel change in technology that has them wondering why the skills they’ve worked so hard to build are becoming less valued. It's not so much that I think they're less valued or unskilled. I just don't think the cost savings are passed on to the consumers from technology advances. Too long to try to explain at this hour for me.
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 20, 2023 2:28:48 GMT
Thankyou Tamworth yhankyou Staffordshire 24.9 % sqing
Thankyou east beds 1st time for 100 years 20 % swing
Get the tories out vote anti tory
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Post by tuum on Oct 20, 2023 4:18:53 GMT
Thankyou Tamworth yhankyou Staffordshire 24.9 % sqing Thankyou east beds 1st time for 100 years 20 % swing Get the tories out vote anti tory Hold your horses! It's great that Labour won but from the BBC report it said this was denitely an anti-conservative vote but there was no resounding enthusiasm for Labour either. If I was in the Labour party I would celebrate the win but do not take it for granted that people are genuinely aligned with Labour's policies. They need to listen very carefully to these conservatives to make sure they can retain their vote come the GE. My opinion at the moment is that the quality of our politicians and their parties is not great and that Labour is the least bad option. That is not a ringing endorsement of Labour. They still have a lot of work to do.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 4:42:26 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 20, 2023 5:29:16 GMT
Show me where I’ve said that those deserving of benefits through sickness, mental health or that have paid into the pot through national insurance that are out of work but actively looking for a new job aren’t deserving of benefits. It’s people like them that should be getting benefits. The story you highlight is tragic. I appreciate it’s the Mail and not the Guardian but this is an interesting piece and is focused on the people I’m talking about. It focuses on how easy it is to play the system and gives those genuinly on benefits a bad reputation. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3185928/amp/Undercover-reporter-films-benefits-fraudsters-boasting-cheating-TV-investigation.html
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Post by henry on Oct 20, 2023 5:49:03 GMT
1st deflection of the day 👍
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 20, 2023 6:11:12 GMT
1st deflection of the day 👍 I think the word that’s frequently been used is whatsaboutary. .
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Post by knype on Oct 20, 2023 6:15:18 GMT
1st deflection of the day 👍 I think the word that’s frequently been used is whatsaboutary. . Spot on, spending hours posting twitter links of known Lefty's is pointless
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 6:33:34 GMT
1st deflection of the day 👍 Not at all. It's relevant to the conversation.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 6:34:04 GMT
I think the word that’s frequently been used is whatsaboutary. . Spot on, spending hours posting twitter links of known Lefty's is pointless Yawn....jog on Tory boy.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 6:35:51 GMT
Show me where I’ve said that those deserving of benefits through sickness, mental health or that have paid into the pot through national insurance that are out of work but actively looking for a new job aren’t deserving of benefits. It’s people like them that should be getting benefits. The story you highlight is tragic. I appreciate it’s the Mail and not the Guardian but this is an interesting piece and is focused on the people I’m talking about. It focuses on how easy it is to play the system and gives those genuinly on benefits a bad reputation. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3185928/amp/Undercover-reporter-films-benefits-fraudsters-boasting-cheating-TV-investigation.htmlAgain, I'm afraid I disagree with you. It's almost impossible to "game the system" anymore and you know this. Those caught doing it deserve everything they get.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 6:47:01 GMT
Classy. NOT.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 20, 2023 6:58:43 GMT
Show me where I’ve said that those deserving of benefits through sickness, mental health or that have paid into the pot through national insurance that are out of work but actively looking for a new job aren’t deserving of benefits. It’s people like them that should be getting benefits. The story you highlight is tragic. I appreciate it’s the Mail and not the Guardian but this is an interesting piece and is focused on the people I’m talking about. It focuses on how easy it is to play the system and gives those genuinly on benefits a bad reputation. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3185928/amp/Undercover-reporter-films-benefits-fraudsters-boasting-cheating-TV-investigation.htmlGiven that less than half of the people that visit that site actually trust the information on there it baffles me why people keep referencing it 🤷🏻
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 20, 2023 7:15:33 GMT
The people of Tamworth will regret that, don't they know about ULEZ?
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Post by knype on Oct 20, 2023 7:26:55 GMT
Spot on, spending hours posting twitter links of known Lefty's is pointless Yawn....jog on Tory boy. Never, ever voted Tory, never will, will never vote Labour again either!
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 20, 2023 7:27:14 GMT
Repeat the swing in mid beds across the country and the tories end up with 20 seats!! What a disastrous result for the tories.
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 20, 2023 7:31:10 GMT
The people of Tamworth will regret that, don't they know about ULEZ? Which was forced on the mayor as part of tfl bailout by the government admitted hes now running with it on envi6grounds but when figures for pollution are rising and people are getting I'll what else do you do Good to see the Tory doing the chicken ring there will be a hold coop of them soon
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 7:52:11 GMT
Never, ever voted Tory, never will, will never vote Labour again either! Astonishing!!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 7:57:20 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 7:58:28 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2023 8:13:37 GMT
Criminal.
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