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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2023 8:50:24 GMT
So because of lost revenue it’s ok for workshy scroungers to get a free ride. People who’ve worked 50 years basically get the same state income as lazy arsed non workers. Talk me through this "free ride" you claim this tiny minority of people are getting. The ones who live a comfortable life without ever clocking on. The workshy pensioners who get the same as the ones who slogged their guts out. The ones who don’t have to sell their homes when they go into care.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 9:02:46 GMT
Talk me through this "free ride" you claim this tiny minority of people are getting. The ones who live a comfortable life without ever clocking on. The workshy pensioners who get the same as the ones who slogged their guts out. The ones who don’t have to sell their homes when they go into care. As I said to Cobs, you're getting angry at the wrong people mate. It's a drop in the Ocean compared to the real fraud that's going on and again, I never hear you speak of this.
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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2023 9:08:02 GMT
The ones who live a comfortable life without ever clocking on. The workshy pensioners who get the same as the ones who slogged their guts out. The ones who don’t have to sell their homes when they go into care. As I said to Cobs, you're getting angry at the wrong people mate. It's a drop in the Ocean compared to the real fraud that's going on and again, I never hear you speak of this. You didn’t answer my question.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2023 9:08:12 GMT
Talk me through this "free ride" you claim this tiny minority of people are getting. The ones who live a comfortable life without ever clocking on. The workshy pensioners who get the same as the ones who slogged their guts out. The ones who don’t have to sell their homes when they go into care. You are describing many MPs and members of the House of Lords and other so called “elites” like the Royal Family and members of the aristocracy. In fact, I bet your description covers more rich people than poor people in this country. Apart from they get much more as pensioners than those who slogged their guts out.
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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2023 9:11:56 GMT
The ones who live a comfortable life without ever clocking on. The workshy pensioners who get the same as the ones who slogged their guts out. The ones who don’t have to sell their homes when they go into care. You are describing many MPs and members of the House of Lords and other so called “elites” like the Royal Family and members of the aristocracy. In fact, I bet your description covers more rich people than poor people in this country. So it’s ok then to abuse the system just because some rich people find ways to avoid paying tax ?
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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2023 9:14:16 GMT
Should we all jack in work and see what happens?
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Post by gawa on Oct 18, 2023 9:16:59 GMT
Should we all jack in work and see what happens? Yes fucking please. Willing to give it a go like.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2023 9:21:53 GMT
You are describing many MPs and members of the House of Lords and other so called “elites” like the Royal Family and members of the aristocracy. In fact, I bet your description covers more rich people than poor people in this country. So it’s ok then to abuse the system just because some rich people find ways to avoid paying tax ? No. It isn’t ok for those few people to abuse the system. But a far bigger problem is the rich tax avoidance. Also, take someone who may have worked a little, cash in hand, claimed benefits, could have worked more, perhaps did a stint in prison - when they retire, should they be left to die homeless in the street? Should they be given a home? Should they have food to eat? What would you do with them? It costs less to society to house them and give them a miserly sum to live off than to abandon them. There has to be some balance. The problem with our society is that money equals an easy life and plenty of opportunities you don’t have to work for. The poorer you are, the harder you have to work for everything. In order to make society more equal, we must reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest to create more of a level playing field. Equal opportunities so the best can prosper regardless of upbringing and background. That can only happen by taxing the seriously wealthy properly. Even taxing them as much as I am taxed would be a start. Then we can improve public services and education and opportunities and actually level up opportunities regardless as to whether you are a working class lad from stoke on trent or born into the aristocracy and heading to Eton. If people are given opportunities they generally won’t choose to do nothing with their life and scrounge off the state. Because they can see a better life for themselves. It is only when that better life looks impossible that people give up and do nothing. So you can tackle both issues in one go. Tax the rich and make their life a tiny bit harder, and use the money to provide opportunities for the poor to massively improve their chances for a better life.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 9:26:41 GMT
This is the contempt they hold us in.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 9:27:41 GMT
As I said to Cobs, you're getting angry at the wrong people mate. It's a drop in the Ocean compared to the real fraud that's going on and again, I never hear you speak of this. You didn’t answer my question. I did, you're misguided mate.
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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2023 9:28:25 GMT
So it’s ok then to abuse the system just because some rich people find ways to avoid paying tax ? No. It isn’t ok for those few people to abuse the system. But a far bigger problem is the rich tax avoidance. Also, take someone who may have worked a little, cash in hand, claimed benefits, could have worked more, perhaps did a stint in prison - when they retire, should they be left to die homeless in the street? Should they be given a home? Should they have food to eat? What would you do with them? It costs less to society to house them and give them a miserly sum to live off than to abandon them. There has to be some balance. The problem with our society is that money equals an easy life and plenty of opportunities you don’t have to work for. The poorer you are, the harder you have to work for everything. In order to make society more equal, we must reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest to create more of a level playing field. Equal opportunities so the best can prosper regardless of upbringing and background. That can only happen by taxing the seriously wealthy properly. Even taxing them as much as I am taxed would be a start. Then we can improve public services and education and opportunities and actually level up opportunities regardless as to whether you are a working class lad from stoke on trent or born into the aristocracy and heading to Eton. If people are given opportunities they generally won’t choose to do nothing with their life and scrounge off the state. Because they can see a better life for themselves. It is only when that better life looks impossible that people give up and do nothing. So you can tackle both issues in one go. Tax the rich and make their life a tiny bit harder, and use the money to provide opportunities for the poor to massively improve their chances for a better life. State pension should be pro rata your NI contributions. The harder you work the more you should get.
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Post by Veritas on Oct 18, 2023 9:39:35 GMT
No. It isn’t ok for those few people to abuse the system. But a far bigger problem is the rich tax avoidance. Also, take someone who may have worked a little, cash in hand, claimed benefits, could have worked more, perhaps did a stint in prison - when they retire, should they be left to die homeless in the street? Should they be given a home? Should they have food to eat? What would you do with them? It costs less to society to house them and give them a miserly sum to live off than to abandon them. There has to be some balance. The problem with our society is that money equals an easy life and plenty of opportunities you don’t have to work for. The poorer you are, the harder you have to work for everything. In order to make society more equal, we must reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest to create more of a level playing field. Equal opportunities so the best can prosper regardless of upbringing and background. That can only happen by taxing the seriously wealthy properly. Even taxing them as much as I am taxed would be a start. Then we can improve public services and education and opportunities and actually level up opportunities regardless as to whether you are a working class lad from stoke on trent or born into the aristocracy and heading to Eton. If people are given opportunities they generally won’t choose to do nothing with their life and scrounge off the state. Because they can see a better life for themselves. It is only when that better life looks impossible that people give up and do nothing. So you can tackle both issues in one go. Tax the rich and make their life a tiny bit harder, and use the money to provide opportunities for the poor to massively improve their chances for a better life. State pension should be pro rata your NI contributions. The harder you work the more you should get. One flaw with that is the harder you work doesn't necessarily translate into the more you earn and therefore the more NI you contribute.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 10:53:18 GMT
Benefits paid to people who could be working. Clamping down will raise probably about the same amount of revenue as closing a loophole or two for the super rich. And clamping down on benefits will cost a great deal more to implement and enforce. Is it all about the money though? Shouldn’t it also be about getting people who can work to work? Good luck with that. I used the doll for about 3 months once while I was in-between University and my PhD. All you have to do is ‘show’ that you are ‘actively searching’ for a job. You write a note saying that you went on site x and applied for at least 3 jobs (I think). It’s not hard to do that in a day when you’re not actually working. In the end, the process was very helpful. They funded me a cheap suit and paid for the petrol that I used to get from Stoke to Exeter and back (barely). I got that PhD and my life changed. However, it was quite apparent how easy it would be to abuse that system.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 11:00:45 GMT
This is the contempt they hold us in. Do reporters ever actually argue back on this statement? It’s repeated often and it’s so basic.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 11:10:23 GMT
This is the contempt they hold us in. Do reporters ever actually argue back on this statement? It’s repeated often and it’s so basic. It seems they don't.
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Post by knype on Oct 18, 2023 11:26:40 GMT
State pension should be pro rata your NI contributions. The harder you work the more you should get. One flaw with that is the harder you work doesn't necessarily translate into the more you earn and therefore the more NI you contribute. I think he meant against those that don't pay naff all in and get their pension
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 12:38:58 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 18, 2023 14:09:15 GMT
He's a bit thick this guy then. Its not the end of the year yet but he's already saying he failed. Must have an agenda...
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 18, 2023 17:27:39 GMT
Wonder how the tories sleep ar nightmare probably in a 4 poster bed with a mattress stuffed with ppe cash and backhanders 😁😁
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 18, 2023 19:13:20 GMT
Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (11-12 Oct)
Con: 24 (no change from 4-5 Oct) Lab: 47% (+2) Lib Dem: 9% (-2) Reform UK: 8% (=) Green: 6% (-1) SNP: 4% (=)
OS.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2023 20:33:33 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 19, 2023 2:16:26 GMT
The inimitable
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2023 4:35:29 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 19, 2023 6:38:40 GMT
Is it all about the money though? Shouldn’t it also be about getting people who can work to work? Yes. Absolutely. But that is a lower priority for me than, for example, recovering billions in fraud from covid, or ensuring rich people pay as much tax than not rich people. My average tax rate was higher than Rishi Sunak’s in the 21/22 tax year. That is plainly unfair and shows that the system is completely wrong. Fair enough and that’s clearly not right. I liken it to being similar to paying 1200 pounds for an item that you never receive or being charged way over the top by a business that does at least supply the product They’re both wrong and your being screwed in both cases but at least with one your getting some work done. The other you’re paying literally for nothing.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 19, 2023 6:58:22 GMT
Let's get angry about Sky - Mobile phones too many kids...blah blah blah. Demonising these people is abhorrent. FFS the real problem is sitting in Whitehall. Very true - it's just classic deflection yet again. We are a 1st world nation - our citizens SHOULD be able to access Sky / have mobile phones / get their fucking nails done and hair cut!!! I accept completely that a minority of our population has their priorities wrong, and there are cases where people need to take personal responsibility, but it is the government who has created the abject poverty that we are seeing, the number of kids sleeping on floors, the rise of foodbanks, the rise in employed people being unable to afford to pay bills above and beyond the basics for survival. It is our government that has created this situation, whilst privately profiteering for themselves and their mates, they have screwed the 'have nots' into the ground and made our living standards the worst they have been for decades. A 1st world country... So what happens if those working think “sod that I’ll have some of what they’re having.” down tools and choose to live off benefits. What would get done? The country would grind to a halt especially when not choosing to work becomes a generational thing that’s passed down. As I said previously it’s not all about the money it’s about encouraging people to work and develop a work ethic. If that doesn’t happen we’ll get more people not wanting to work and us having to pick up the tab. We shouldn’t just dismiss those who can work that choose to live off benefits as insignificant or an over reaction just because the money involved isn’t as high as that being lost through tax evasion. That’s certainly not right but at least Sunak works (and this isnt me saying he’s a great guy). Just because it’s not important to some because they’d rather target the rich because they hate the tory party or people of wealth (I’m certainly not one). I’ve just always been bought up with the attitude that you work hard and that you pay your way in life. Obvioisly that’s wrong in some people’s eyes and they think it’s ok for people who cant be bothered to get similar financial reward.
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Post by adri2008 on Oct 19, 2023 7:23:48 GMT
Labour is almost certainly going to stroll into power but I'm not expecting a great deal of difference. Similar policies with a different management team isn't, it presented with some kinder words. The promise little strategy is good politically (don't scare the horses) but the end product is going to be very disappointing I suspect and does nothing to really rectify any of the problems that the country has. Lots of tinkering around the edges i.e. managed decline is ahead.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2023 7:29:10 GMT
Very true - it's just classic deflection yet again. We are a 1st world nation - our citizens SHOULD be able to access Sky / have mobile phones / get their fucking nails done and hair cut!!! I accept completely that a minority of our population has their priorities wrong, and there are cases where people need to take personal responsibility, but it is the government who has created the abject poverty that we are seeing, the number of kids sleeping on floors, the rise of foodbanks, the rise in employed people being unable to afford to pay bills above and beyond the basics for survival. It is our government that has created this situation, whilst privately profiteering for themselves and their mates, they have screwed the 'have nots' into the ground and made our living standards the worst they have been for decades. A 1st world country... So what happens if those working think “sod that I’ll have some of what they’re having.” down tools and choose to live off benefits. What would get done? The country would grind to a halt especially when not choosing to work becomes a generational thing that’s passed down. As I said previously it’s not all about the money it’s about encouraging people to work and develop a work ethic. If that doesn’t happen we’ll get more people not wanting to work and us having to pick up the tab. We shouldn’t just dismiss those who can work that choose to live off benefits as insignificant or an over reaction just because the money involved isn’t as high as that being lost through tax evasion. That’s certainly not right but at least Sunak works (and this isnt me saying he’s a great guy). Just because it’s not important to some because they’d rather target the rich because they hate the tory party or people of wealth (I’m certainly not one). I’ve just always been bought up with the attitude that you work hard and that you pay your way in life. Obvioisly that’s wrong in some people’s eyes and they think it’s ok for people who cant be bothered to get similar financial reward. The simple answer is you can't just down tools and sign on. And it's been like that for years. Again, you're turning your anger on the wrong people.
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Post by henry on Oct 19, 2023 7:31:15 GMT
Very true - it's just classic deflection yet again. We are a 1st world nation - our citizens SHOULD be able to access Sky / have mobile phones / get their fucking nails done and hair cut!!! I accept completely that a minority of our population has their priorities wrong, and there are cases where people need to take personal responsibility, but it is the government who has created the abject poverty that we are seeing, the number of kids sleeping on floors, the rise of foodbanks, the rise in employed people being unable to afford to pay bills above and beyond the basics for survival. It is our government that has created this situation, whilst privately profiteering for themselves and their mates, they have screwed the 'have nots' into the ground and made our living standards the worst they have been for decades. A 1st world country... So what happens if those working think “sod that I’ll have some of what they’re having.” down tools and choose to live off benefits. What would get done? The country would grind to a halt especially when not choosing to work becomes a generational thing that’s passed down. As I said previously it’s not all about the money it’s about encouraging people to work and develop a work ethic. If that doesn’t happen we’ll get more people not wanting to work and us having to pick up the tab. We shouldn’t just dismiss those who can work that choose to live off benefits as insignificant or an over reaction just because the money involved isn’t as high as that being lost through tax evasion. That’s certainly not right but at least Sunak works (and this isnt me saying he’s a great guy). Just because it’s not important to some because they’d rather target the rich because they hate the tory party or people of wealth (I’m certainly not one). I’ve just always been bought up with the attitude that you work hard and that you pay your way in life. Obvioisly that’s wrong in some people’s eyes and they think it’s ok for people who cant be bothered to get similar financial reward. Spot on Cobs
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Post by henry on Oct 19, 2023 7:35:55 GMT
So it’s ok then to abuse the system just because some rich people find ways to avoid paying tax ? No. It isn’t ok for those few people to abuse the system. But a far bigger problem is the rich tax avoidance. Also, take someone who may have worked a little, cash in hand, claimed benefits, could have worked more, perhaps did a stint in prison - when they retire, should they be left to die homeless in the street? Should they be given a home? Should they have food to eat? What would you do with them? It costs less to society to house them and give them a miserly sum to live off than to abandon them. There has to be some balance. The problem with our society is that money equals an easy life and plenty of opportunities you don’t have to work for. The poorer you are, the harder you have to work for everything. In order to make society more equal, we must reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest to create more of a level playing field. Equal opportunities so the best can prosper regardless of upbringing and background. That can only happen by taxing the seriously wealthy properly. Even taxing them as much as I am taxed would be a start. Then we can improve public services and education and opportunities and actually level up opportunities regardless as to whether you are a working class lad from stoke on trent or born into the aristocracy and heading to Eton. If people are given opportunities they generally won’t choose to do nothing with their life and scrounge off the state. Because they can see a better life for themselves. It is only when that better life looks impossible that people give up and do nothing. So you can tackle both issues in one go. Tax the rich and make their life a tiny bit harder, and use the money to provide opportunities for the poor to massively improve their chances for a better life. Tax avoidance is not illegal. Chances are most people on this thread do it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2023 7:37:11 GMT
So what happens if those working think “sod that I’ll have some of what they’re having.” down tools and choose to live off benefits. What would get done? The country would grind to a halt especially when not choosing to work becomes a generational thing that’s passed down. As I said previously it’s not all about the money it’s about encouraging people to work and develop a work ethic. If that doesn’t happen we’ll get more people not wanting to work and us having to pick up the tab. We shouldn’t just dismiss those who can work that choose to live off benefits as insignificant or an over reaction just because the money involved isn’t as high as that being lost through tax evasion. That’s certainly not right but at least Sunak works (and this isnt me saying he’s a great guy). Just because it’s not important to some because they’d rather target the rich because they hate the tory party or people of wealth (I’m certainly not one). I’ve just always been bought up with the attitude that you work hard and that you pay your way in life. Obvioisly that’s wrong in some people’s eyes and they think it’s ok for people who cant be bothered to get similar financial reward. Spot on Cobs There are people that have worked hard all their lives, lose a job and find themselves on the streets. Is that fair to not ask for and get help?
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