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Post by mrcoke on Oct 13, 2023 17:52:14 GMT
This is not in the least surprising or all that bad. 1. The fact that the UK has grown our renewable energy production from wind and solar, and virtually eliminated coal, and achieved an energy surplus at times is to be commended. Would people prefer we continued our massive dependence on imported energy? 2. The fact there are times when the generation exceeds usage is understandable as the nation's usage does not match when the wind blows or the sun shines is an unavoidable fact. 3. We do not have the energy transmission and storage resources in place to move power around the country from where it is generated to where it is used when generation is at a maximum. Hopefully it will improve (if has to!) but it will take decades. There's a pylon coming near you! 4. The UK was in the (fortunate) position of being able to sell surplus electricity as France , which usually has a surplus and export, but had a deficit due to many of their nuclear power stations out of service for maintenance. 5. The surplus power will have been sold at wholesale price, covering the marginal cost of production. UK consumers pay the retail price which covers all the costs of production including gas/coal/wood etc., depreciation, employment, maintenance, and of course profits to the retailer, producer, distributer, etc. There has been an agreement made with the Netherlands to export wind power from the North Sea into Europe's grid. The sale price will be much lower than UK consumers' price. 6. An exceptional reason for excess energy may be the government probably committed to buy liquid gas from elsewhere in the world to ensure supplies because of the war in Ukraine. Sunak is right to give the go ahead for more investment in oil and gas in the North Sea to increase self sufficiency which will inevitably result in surplus energy at times which will be sold for whatever the customer is prepared to pay. This week's events in the Middle East show how vulnerable the UK is to dependace on oil and liquid gas from that part of the world. If one of the Arab nations weighs in in support of the Palestinians and attacks Israel we could have all out war. Remember Sadam Hussain? You do realise it's going to take at least 6 years for the new fields to come on stream? And will be sold on the open market? Tell me where is the benefit to the UK? Jobs are created from day one with engineering, legal agreements, orders placed, financing, etc. Progress payments will go to companies during the years of design, procurement, construction, commissioning, etc The financial benefits run into £billions with thousands of jobs. www.gov.uk/government/news/government-backs-new-oil-and-gas-to-safeguard-uk-and-grow-the-economyThere is also strategic benefits in being less dependant on other countries for energy. Look at the mess Germany is in having been so dependant on Russia.
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Post by 828492 on Oct 13, 2023 21:29:43 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 13, 2023 22:15:29 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 14, 2023 6:38:56 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 14, 2023 7:08:43 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. Terrifying isn't it. And the same non process is deciding international affairs like Israel and Ukraine. Be afraid....very afraid....
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 14, 2023 9:06:35 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 14, 2023 9:35:23 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. I have been saying much the same for years on this thread. maybe not as lucidly. I have no political allegiance. None of them can be trusted. I left the old Liberal Party in the 80s because of all the lies and deceit trying to get people's votes, and they were amateurs compared with the Tories and Labour! He says the politicians have no power, which is correct in one sense, see below, but on the other hand they do perceive they have power which corrupts them, and they can do immense damage, e.g. Truss. There was a referendum of Brexit, called by Cameron to decide the issue "once and for all", but what happened when the establishment did not get the result they wanted and expected. They spent years trying to undermine it and procrastinating over what to do and failing to agree between themselves. (And some people want PR LOL) As for power as I've posted the following before on the Starmer thread: There seems to be a perception that government is like driving a car, with the government the driver, the car the economy, the route the economic/social plan, which the driver can change at will. Would that it was so simple! A better analogy is that government is like being in charge of a ship on a stormy sea. You might have a chosen destination but you are in the lap of the gods whether you get there. You certainly can't stop, get out and fix what's wrong, you have to keep going and make the best of it. How good the ship is depends on us, the people, particularly the leaders in our society, not a bunch of loud mouths in Westminster. Fortunately I think we are blessed with being one of the most talented and hard working group of multicultural nations in the world. This country is a great country because of the people, including the immigrants - and everyone of our ancestors was an immigrant- despite the politicians. You'll gather from the above I am against PR, because that is a system which lets the politicians carve up jobs and policies between them. I am against EU membership because that hands law making over to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels (under the sway of big business) who run rings round the politicians. It is vital to retain one MP per constituency, so that at least one day per 5 years, the people actually decide who represents them, who is in charge, and can get rid of an MP or a government. That power is effectively transferred to the HoC in the sense that if an MP thinks he is danger of losing his seat, he will assist in the process of removing the current PM or changing party policy.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 14, 2023 10:38:31 GMT
Jobs are created from day one with engineering, legal agreements, orders placed, financing, etc. Progress payments will go to companies during the years of design, procurement, construction, commissioning, etc The financial benefits run into £billions with thousands of jobs. www.gov.uk/government/news/government-backs-new-oil-and-gas-to-safeguard-uk-and-grow-the-economyThere is also strategic benefits in being less dependant on other countries for energy. Look at the mess Germany is in having been so dependant on Russia. I have no intention of critiquing this or your previous post in detail, a lot of which I find subjective or incorrect because it would just involve endless Circular Discussion Just for the sake of clarity could you answer two questions 1. In what way will granting North Sea Oil and Gas Licences be of Strategic Benefit to UK who have no control over the destination or price of said Oil and Gas? 2. If Europe is in such an Energy mess and I agree the Ukraine War has presented some challenges. Why according to House of Commons has UK suffered practically the highest Oil and Gas Prices out of all of Europe in 2022 and now in 2023 are seeing much slower price reductions? This is a puzzler as after reading your first post one would be left with the impression that UK was pursuing a perfect Energy Policy In the second half of 2022 UK domestic gas prices were above those in most of the EU, while UK electricity prices were higher than all but one EU country. UK consumer prices for gas and electricity increased at a much faster rate than the EU average in both the first and second half of 2022. Price falls in the UK in 2023 have, so far, been smaller than in most of the rest of Europe. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9491/#:~:text=In%20the%20second%20half%20of,and%20second%20half%20of%202022.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 10:52:19 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. I have been saying much the same for years on this thread. maybe not as lucidly. I have no political allegiance. None of them can be trusted. I left the old Liberal Party in the 80s because of all the lies and deceit trying to get people's votes, and they were amateurs compared with the Tories and Labour! He says the politicians have no power, which is correct in one sense, see below, but on the other hand they do perceive they have power which corrupts them, and they can do immense damage, e.g. Truss. There was a referendum of Brexit, called by Cameron to decide the issue "once and for all", but what happened when the establishment did not get the result they wanted and expected. They spent years trying to undermine it and procrastinating over what to do and failing to agree between themselves. (And some people want PR LOL) As for power as I've posted the following before on the Starmer thread: There seems to be a perception that government is like driving a car, with the government the driver, the car the economy, the route the economic/social plan, which the driver can change at will. Would that it was so simple! A better analogy is that government is like being in charge of a ship on a stormy sea. You might have a chosen destination but you are in the lap of the gods whether you get there. You certainly can't stop, get out and fix what's wrong, you have to keep going and make the best of it. How good the ship is depends on us, the people, particularly the leaders in our society, not a bunch of loud mouths in Westminster. Fortunately I think we are blessed with being one of the most talented and hard working group of multicultural nations in the world. This country is a great country because of the people, including the immigrants - and everyone of our ancestors was an immigrant- despite the politicians. You'll gather from the above I am against PR, because that is a system which lets the politicians carve up jobs and policies between them. I am against EU membership because that hands law making over to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels (under the sway of big business) who run rings round the politicians. It is vital to retain one MP per constituency, so that at least one day per 5 years, the people actually decide who represents them, who is in charge, and can get rid of an MP or a government. That power is effectively transferred to the HoC in the sense that if an MP thinks he is danger of losing his seat, he will assist in the process of removing the current PM or changing party policy. In your ship analogy, you’d still want someone at the helm that can navigate stormy waters. In a storm, there are plenty of waves to die on. A good helmsman has a better chance of getting you out than a bad one. There’s probably a nice way to pull that back to the politician. If politicians have no power, how could Liz Truss do so much damage? Answer, she wouldn’t have been able to. If I stood out on the street and went through her ravings, the economy wouldn’t splinter. That’s not having power.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 14, 2023 11:21:26 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. Forgot to say as well. Rory was a guy I could have voted for. I was hoping when he put his hat in the ring a few years back in yet another tory leadership contest that he'd come through but alas they wouldn't have it. A genuine and honest man in my view. And they used his honesty to stab him between the shoulder blades. And sadly that did for him 😔
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Post by stokeson on Oct 14, 2023 11:33:43 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. Forgot to say as well. Rory was a guy I could have voted for. I was hoping when he put his hat in the ring a few years back in yet another tory leadership contest that he'd come through but alas they wouldn't have it. A genuine and honest man in my view. And they used his honesty to stab him between the shoulder blades. And sadly that did for him 😔 As a solid "lefty" i could never vote for him but always seen him as a really honest guy. Tried to get a ticket to see him talk with Campbell but it was sold out. It would be interesting to know his thoughts on Israel right now.............
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 14, 2023 11:43:11 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. I have been saying much the same for years on this thread. maybe not as lucidly. I have no political allegiance. None of them can be trusted. I left the old Liberal Party in the 80s because of all the lies and deceit trying to get people's votes, and they were amateurs compared with the Tories and Labour! He says the politicians have no power, which is correct in one sense, see below, but on the other hand they do perceive they have power which corrupts them, and they can do immense damage, e.g. Truss. There was a referendum of Brexit, called by Cameron to decide the issue "once and for all", but what happened when the establishment did not get the result they wanted and expected. They spent years trying to undermine it and procrastinating over what to do and failing to agree between themselves. (And some people want PR LOL) As for power as I've posted the following before on the Starmer thread: There seems to be a perception that government is like driving a car, with the government the driver, the car the economy, the route the economic/social plan, which the driver can change at will. Would that it was so simple! A better analogy is that government is like being in charge of a ship on a stormy sea. You might have a chosen destination but you are in the lap of the gods whether you get there. You certainly can't stop, get out and fix what's wrong, you have to keep going and make the best of it. How good the ship is depends on us, the people, particularly the leaders in our society, not a bunch of loud mouths in Westminster. Fortunately I think we are blessed with being one of the most talented and hard working group of multicultural nations in the world. This country is a great country because of the people, including the immigrants - and everyone of our ancestors was an immigrant- despite the politicians. You'll gather from the above I am against PR, because that is a system which lets the politicians carve up jobs and policies between them. I am against EU membership because that hands law making over to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels (under the sway of big business) who run rings round the politicians. It is vital to retain one MP per constituency, so that at least one day per 5 years, the people actually decide who represents them, who is in charge, and can get rid of an MP or a government. That power is effectively transferred to the HoC in the sense that if an MP thinks he is danger of losing his seat, he will assist in the process of removing the current PM or changing party policy. I've stated on here many, many times my belief that democracy is the illusion of free will. I don't see or hear anything that changes my mind about that, and I don't understand the dick measuring contests on here over party politics when you just change from one bunch of charlatans to another. Except for the red & blue badges that is.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 14, 2023 11:46:03 GMT
I have been saying much the same for years on this thread. maybe not as lucidly. I have no political allegiance. None of them can be trusted. I left the old Liberal Party in the 80s because of all the lies and deceit trying to get people's votes, and they were amateurs compared with the Tories and Labour! He says the politicians have no power, which is correct in one sense, see below, but on the other hand they do perceive they have power which corrupts them, and they can do immense damage, e.g. Truss. There was a referendum of Brexit, called by Cameron to decide the issue "once and for all", but what happened when the establishment did not get the result they wanted and expected. They spent years trying to undermine it and procrastinating over what to do and failing to agree between themselves. (And some people want PR LOL) As for power as I've posted the following before on the Starmer thread: There seems to be a perception that government is like driving a car, with the government the driver, the car the economy, the route the economic/social plan, which the driver can change at will. Would that it was so simple! A better analogy is that government is like being in charge of a ship on a stormy sea. You might have a chosen destination but you are in the lap of the gods whether you get there. You certainly can't stop, get out and fix what's wrong, you have to keep going and make the best of it. How good the ship is depends on us, the people, particularly the leaders in our society, not a bunch of loud mouths in Westminster. Fortunately I think we are blessed with being one of the most talented and hard working group of multicultural nations in the world. This country is a great country because of the people, including the immigrants - and everyone of our ancestors was an immigrant- despite the politicians. You'll gather from the above I am against PR, because that is a system which lets the politicians carve up jobs and policies between them. I am against EU membership because that hands law making over to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels (under the sway of big business) who run rings round the politicians. It is vital to retain one MP per constituency, so that at least one day per 5 years, the people actually decide who represents them, who is in charge, and can get rid of an MP or a government. That power is effectively transferred to the HoC in the sense that if an MP thinks he is danger of losing his seat, he will assist in the process of removing the current PM or changing party policy. In your ship analogy, you’d still want someone at the helm that can navigate stormy waters. In a storm, there are plenty of waves to die on. A good helmsman has a better chance of getting you out than a bad one. There’s probably a nice way to pull that back to the politician. If politicians have no power, how could Liz Truss do so much damage? Answer, she wouldn’t have been able to. If I stood out on the street and went through her ravings, the economy wouldn’t splinter. That’s not having power. I don't wish to get into a semantics, but I think there is a lot of difference between power and influence. Power suggests actual control of events and even that is finite as Putin has discovered. As McMillan alluded to, politicians are impacted by "events" over which they have little control. The difference between you and Truss is, she had a lot more influence on how events unfolded, mostly negative, due to her position, but, like you in the street, really she did not have any power to control them. I like your analogy a good helmsman, but that also suggests someone appropriate to the conditions. A good pilot in one harbour, knowing local conditions, could be a poor pilot in a different harbour. A bit like managing football teams.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 14, 2023 11:47:41 GMT
In your ship analogy, you’d still want someone at the helm that can navigate stormy waters. In a storm, there are plenty of waves to die on. A good helmsman has a better chance of getting you out than a bad one. There’s probably a nice way to pull that back to the politician. If politicians have no power, how could Liz Truss do so much damage? Answer, she wouldn’t have been able to. If I stood out on the street and went through her ravings, the economy wouldn’t splinter. That’s not having power. I don't wish to get into a semantics, but I think there is a lot of difference between power and influence. Power suggests actual control of events and even that is finite as Putin has discovered. As McMillan alluded to, politicians are impacted by "events" over which they have little control. The difference between you and Truss is, she had a lot more influence on how events unfolded, mostly negative, due to her position, but, like you in the street, really she did not have any power to control them. I like your analogy a good helmsman, but that also suggests someone appropriate to the conditions. A good pilot in one harbour, knowing local conditions, could be a poor pilot in a different harbour. A bit like managing football teams. We've suffered some poor fucking pilots then, no wonder it feels like the ship is sinking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 12:50:19 GMT
In your ship analogy, you’d still want someone at the helm that can navigate stormy waters. In a storm, there are plenty of waves to die on. A good helmsman has a better chance of getting you out than a bad one. There’s probably a nice way to pull that back to the politician. If politicians have no power, how could Liz Truss do so much damage? Answer, she wouldn’t have been able to. If I stood out on the street and went through her ravings, the economy wouldn’t splinter. That’s not having power. I don't wish to get into a semantics, but I think there is a lot of difference between power and influence. Power suggests actual control of events and even that is finite as Putin has discovered. As McMillan alluded to, politicians are impacted by "events" over which they have little control. The difference between you and Truss is, she had a lot more influence on how events unfolded, mostly negative, due to her position, but, like you in the street, really she did not have any power to control them. I like your analogy a good helmsman, but that also suggests someone appropriate to the conditions. A good pilot in one harbour, knowing local conditions, could be a poor pilot in a different harbour. A bit like managing football teams. That’s reasonable. But I think having power and having ultimate power are two very different things. Truss had the influence and power to make real changes. She just didn’t have the foresight (or desire) to understand where those changes would end up. So, while I agree with yourself and the video that they don’t have as much power as it’s convenient to portray in the media etc, I disagree with the finality of your statement that “the politicians have no power”. I thought that the video was quite in line with what I feel about politics, in general. I think that politics needs to be brought into a modern era. Should legislation be voted on if the MP hasn’t read it? Probably not, no. It’s obviously impossible for an MP to be in their constituency and in Parliament at all times. So, either restructure Parliament to restrict legislation votes to certain days, allow for delegates to vote on your behalf or use the internet.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2023 15:14:37 GMT
Talking of power, the Telegraph today carries an illuminating exchange between Cabinet officials at the height of the Johnson fiasco government. It'd be funny if it wasn't for the fact that this was at the height of Covid...why anyone might ever again consider this dickhead as suitable for any role in public life is beyond me...
Simon Case:"I'm not sure I can cope with today. I might just go home!"
Lee Cain:"What the fuck are we talking about now? Whatever Carrie cares about I guess".
Dominic Cummings:"This is all Carrie.
Simon Case:"I was always told that Dom was the secret PM. How wrong they are. I look forward to telling select committee tomorrow 'oh, fuck, no, don't worry about Dom, the real person in charge is Carrie'".
Lee Cain:"Also, she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about either. Jesus".
Simon Case:" This govt doesn't have the credibility to be imposing stuff within days of deciding not to. We look like a terrible, tragic joke".
Indeed. It would be 'The Thick of It' funny if it didn't actually matter so much.
Absolute clown, Boris Johnson.
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Post by stokeson on Oct 14, 2023 15:21:55 GMT
Princess Nut Nut...................................
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 15, 2023 22:02:52 GMT
Any EEB politics thread. Eventually.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 16, 2023 7:17:28 GMT
Jesus wept....
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Post by werrington on Oct 16, 2023 8:01:49 GMT
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Oct 16, 2023 9:42:32 GMT
She has to be just flat out trolling now.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 16, 2023 10:41:03 GMT
I do hope a recall occurs.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 16, 2023 13:48:48 GMT
An explanation of any government we suffer, nevermind a Tory led government. I have been saying much the same for years on this thread. maybe not as lucidly. I have no political allegiance. None of them can be trusted. I left the old Liberal Party in the 80s because of all the lies and deceit trying to get people's votes, and they were amateurs compared with the Tories and Labour! He says the politicians have no power, which is correct in one sense, see below, but on the other hand they do perceive they have power which corrupts them, and they can do immense damage, e.g. Truss. There was a referendum of Brexit, called by Cameron to decide the issue "once and for all", but what happened when the establishment did not get the result they wanted and expected. They spent years trying to undermine it and procrastinating over what to do and failing to agree between themselves. (And some people want PR LOL) As for power as I've posted the following before on the Starmer thread: There seems to be a perception that government is like driving a car, with the government the driver, the car the economy, the route the economic/social plan, which the driver can change at will. Would that it was so simple! A better analogy is that government is like being in charge of a ship on a stormy sea. You might have a chosen destination but you are in the lap of the gods whether you get there. You certainly can't stop, get out and fix what's wrong, you have to keep going and make the best of it. How good the ship is depends on us, the people, particularly the leaders in our society, not a bunch of loud mouths in Westminster. Fortunately I think we are blessed with being one of the most talented and hard working group of multicultural nations in the world. This country is a great country because of the people, including the immigrants - and everyone of our ancestors was an immigrant- despite the politicians. You'll gather from the above I am against PR, because that is a system which lets the politicians carve up jobs and policies between them. I am against EU membership because that hands law making over to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels (under the sway of big business) who run rings round the politicians. It is vital to retain one MP per constituency, so that at least one day per 5 years, the people actually decide who represents them, who is in charge, and can get rid of an MP or a government. That power is effectively transferred to the HoC in the sense that if an MP thinks he is danger of losing his seat, he will assist in the process of removing the current PM or changing party policy. Your argument against PR doesn't make any sense. Under PR it is very unlikely one party would have overall control and Parliament would represent t broader cross section of opinion - it would force Parliament into actually discussing things and arriving at an acceptable decision. Under FPTP power just switches from either the Tories or Labour and the current faction currently in charge of the party in power carves up the jobs and makes the policies. Your argument against the EU doesn't make much sense either. You start off agreeing that Parliament has little effective power which is true - the free market has an enormous amount of power that isn't under the direct control of government. That's as true of the UK Parliament as of the EU. While we were in the EU we voted for members of the European Parliament which gave us some influence over EU policy. As the EU is still our biggest trading partner we still have to comply with EU legislation but now we have no say in it. Leaving the EU has not increased the effective sovereignty of the people of the UK. We have an unelected Head of State, an unelected second house, the most centralised government in europe and a voting system that puts power into the hands of tiny number of people at the head of one of two political parties, effectively disenfranchising millions of people in the process. When it comes to sovereignty the EU is a complete red herring. Democracy in the EU could certainly be improved but the biggest issue is our own system of government - the citizens of other countries in the EU have way more effective sovereignty because their national systems of government are way more representative, egalitarian and democratic than our own. It has to start by taking sovereignty out of the hands of an unelected monarch and giving it to the people of this country - Parliament should be responsible for enacting the sovereignty of the people, not the sovereignty of a monarch. While we are subjects we have no sovereignty of our own and that hasn't changed since leaving the EU.
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Post by gawa on Oct 16, 2023 14:26:35 GMT
Mrcoke most certainly has a political allegiance. Maybe not one he admits to but there is certainly an unconscious bias in what he posts and he regularly holds the conservatives to different standards that he holds other parties too.
If there was no political allegiance then I'd expect to hear more criticism of the current government but all we hear is stuff from Labour in the 00s or brexit.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 16, 2023 15:29:00 GMT
Never seen anyone use those words on this thread! Your boxing match analogy for any EEB politics thread would work much better if one corner was "this government really is shit, isn't it" and the other was "they're all the same, you know".
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 16, 2023 15:33:02 GMT
Mrcoke most certainly has a political allegiance. Maybe not one he admits to but there is certainly an unconscious bias in what he posts and he regularly holds the conservatives to different standards that he holds other parties too. If there was no political allegiance then I'd expect to hear more criticism of the current government but all we hear is stuff from Labour in the 00s or brexit. Indeed. You do have to question the judgement of someone who voted for Brexit and Boris Johnson and supported the massive white elephant HS2 through thick and thin. There's two out of three palpably and demonstrably on the wrong side of history already and I'd wager it'll be the hat-trick with Brexit too.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 16, 2023 15:50:30 GMT
Never seen anyone use those words on this thread! Your boxing match analogy for any EEB politics thread would work much better if one corner was "this government really is shit, isn't it" and the other was "they're all the same, you know". I realise it was a little high brow but you got the gist.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 16, 2023 16:07:58 GMT
It goes to show you just how weak Sunak actually is. He should be suspending her from the Party for a little stunt like this but he simply doesn't have the power to do so.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 16, 2023 16:51:56 GMT
Mrcoke most certainly has a political allegiance. Maybe not one he admits to but there is certainly an unconscious bias in what he posts and he regularly holds the conservatives to different standards that he holds other parties too. If there was no political allegiance then I'd expect to hear more criticism of the current government but all we hear is stuff from Labour in the 00s or brexit. Where I get confused is that supposedly the great thing about Brexit is sovereignty and that we can vote out the rule makers at elections, but then apparently there's no point voting for any of the alternative UK parties as they are all as bad as each other. So no point in Brexit then
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Post by wannabee on Oct 16, 2023 18:45:49 GMT
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