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Post by knype on Oct 12, 2023 15:49:19 GMT
Ahh the old trope used by the Britain First and other far right racist dickheads. More slurs of racist being cast at members by the usual suspect |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 15:50:52 GMT
Multiple people have so far disagreed with you. Two independent sources have been quoted which back up the majority view. You have been invited to show evidence to the contrary and to support your position and you haven’t been able to produce any. You are not very good at debating. |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 12, 2023 15:52:03 GMT
oops when an ex tory minister says shes voting labour you know you in deap rubble link |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 15:53:19 GMT
Multiple people have so far disagreed with you. Two independent sources have been quoted which back up the majority view. You have been invited to show evidence to the contrary and to support your position and you haven’t been able to produce any. You are not very good at debating. You come across as some one that enjoys debating on a 'mass scale'   No noone has disagreed with me about hospital waiting times being made worse by migrants apart from Spencer and he's wrong. |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 12, 2023 15:58:20 GMT
Nobody is saying that the pandemic didn't make it worse but the fact that the Tories had slashed NHS funding to such an extent was the primary contributory factor to the increase in waiting lists. Waiting lists doubled from 2.5m in 2010 to almost 5m in 2019 pre pandemic. They're now at almost 8m so no doubt covid has had an effect but the trajectory they were on would have taken them to between 6 and 7m anyway. If people want to blame the pandemic alone that's up to them - but the numbers don't support it. you could argue that the pandemic actually bought the waiting lists down by the most vunerable being killed by it and therefore this shows an even bigger rise in waiting lists |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 15:59:36 GMT
Multiple people have so far disagreed with you. Two independent sources have been quoted which back up the majority view. You have been invited to show evidence to the contrary and to support your position and you haven’t been able to produce any. You are not very good at debating. You come across as some one that enjoys debating on a 'mass scale' No noone has disagreed with me about hospital waiting times being made worse by migrants apart from Spencer and he's wrong. I have and I do. Do you know many hospitals that operate without migrant workers? They on average contribute more to society than us brits. It makes sense. Many come to work without family and retire back where they came from. It is the young, old and sick that cost the tax payer. Brits are likely to be born here, be an expense (child) then work, then be expensive again as an old person and die here. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 16:04:02 GMT
You come across as some one that enjoys debating on a 'mass scale' No noone has disagreed with me about hospital waiting times being made worse by migrants apart from Spencer and he's wrong. I have and I do. Do you know many hospitals that operate without migrant workers? They on average contribute more to society than us brits. It makes sense. Many come to work without family and retire back where they came from. It is the young, old and sick that cost the tax payer. Brits are likely to be born here, be an expense (child) then work, then be expensive again as an old person and die here. You are wrong as well then. That wasn't the question though, the question was do more people in a society (migrants) contribute to longer waiting times. The answer to that question is yes. More people in a que = longer que. It's not difficult mate. |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 12, 2023 16:04:34 GMT
Ahh the old trope used by the Britain First and other far right racist dickheads. Better than anti British Labour dickheads name calling started early lose the argument even worse shown to be a rasist artical and start slinging mud typical tory tactic i can see why an ex minister is voting labour with the far right racists prevelent in the tories |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 16:09:56 GMT
I have and I do. Do you know many hospitals that operate without migrant workers? They on average contribute more to society than us brits. It makes sense. Many come to work without family and retire back where they came from. It is the young, old and sick that cost the tax payer. Brits are likely to be born here, be an expense (child) then work, then be expensive again as an old person and die here. You are wrong as well then. That wasn't the question though, the question was do more people in a society (migrants) contribute to longer waiting times. The answer to that question is yes. More people in a que = longer que. It's not difficult mate. So by that logic, the most populous countries have the longest waiting lists, right? Number of available appointments has nothing to do with it? Amount of funding of healthcare per citizen has nothing to do with waiting times? |
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Post by knype on Oct 12, 2023 16:14:42 GMT
Waiting lists doubled from 2.5m in 2010 to almost 5m in 2019 pre pandemic. They're now at almost 8m so no doubt covid has had an effect but the trajectory they were on would have taken them to between 6 and 7m anyway. If people want to blame the pandemic alone that's up to them - but the numbers don't support it. you could argue that the pandemic actually bought the waiting lists down by the most vunerable being killed by it and therefore this shows an even bigger rise in waiting lists Typical hardcore left |
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Post by knype on Oct 12, 2023 16:15:08 GMT
Better than anti British Labour dickheads name calling started early lose the argument even worse shown to be a rasist artical and start slinging mud typical tory tactic i can see why an ex minister is voting labour with the far right racists prevelent in the tories Look who started the name calling...AGAIN |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 16:24:51 GMT
Better than anti British Labour dickheads name calling started early lose the argument even worse shown to be a rasist artical and start slinging mud typical tory tactic i can see why an ex minister is voting labour with the far right racists prevelent in the tories I agree mate, thats why he named called. He's got nothing else. No one is more racist than you Labourites mate. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 16:25:35 GMT
name calling started early lose the argument even worse shown to be a rasist artical and start slinging mud typical tory tactic i can see why an ex minister is voting labour with the far right racists prevelent in the tories Look who started the name calling...AGAIN Too dense to notice I think mate. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 12, 2023 16:32:19 GMT
You come across as some one that enjoys debating on a 'mass scale' No noone has disagreed with me about hospital waiting times being made worse by migrants apart from Spencer and he's wrong. I have and I do. Do you know many hospitals that operate without migrant workers? They on average contribute more to society than us brits. It makes sense. Many come to work without family and retire back where they came from. It is the young, old and sick that cost the tax payer. Brits are likely to be born here, be an expense (child) then work, then be expensive again as an old person and die here. Maybe we should get rid of all the "natives" in that case 😆 |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 17:06:43 GMT
I have and I do. Do you know many hospitals that operate without migrant workers? They on average contribute more to society than us brits. It makes sense. Many come to work without family and retire back where they came from. It is the young, old and sick that cost the tax payer. Brits are likely to be born here, be an expense (child) then work, then be expensive again as an old person and die here. Maybe we should get rid of all the "natives" in that case 😆 It makes sense for the right to aim their anger at the Brits more than migrants that’s for sure but I doubt they would go as far as what you are saying because fundamentally the opposition to migrants for many comes from a deep seated fear and racism. In each and every study it shows EEA migrants are the best, then non-EEA migrants, then Brits: migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/#It makes leaving the EU an even bigger mistake. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 12, 2023 17:19:11 GMT
Not long till Big Nige live from the GB News pub with Talking Pints. Be interesting to hear his views on the Israel/ Hamas conflict.
Don’t miss it!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 12, 2023 17:21:33 GMT
You are wrong as well then. That wasn't the question though, the question was do more people in a society (migrants) contribute to longer waiting times. The answer to that question is yes. More people in a que = longer que. It's not difficult mate. So by that logic, the most populous countries have the longest waiting lists, right? Number of available appointments has nothing to do with it? Amount of funding of healthcare per citizen has nothing to do with waiting times? I think you’ll find more people, particularly migrants are contributing to larger waiting lists. Not the only reason of course but certainly a factor. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 17:25:43 GMT
You are wrong as well then. That wasn't the question though, the question was do more people in a society (migrants) contribute to longer waiting times. The answer to that question is yes. More people in a que = longer que. It's not difficult mate. So by that logic, the most populous countries have the longest waiting lists, right? Number of available appointments has nothing to do with it? Amount of funding of healthcare per citizen has nothing to do with waiting times? No. Bigger countries with bigger populations have bigger health infrastructure. 20 people queuing up for an ice cream at the ice cream van is going to take longer than if ten people were queuing for an ice at the same ice cream van. You've got to be trolling mate surely or are you genuinely like this ? |
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Post by henry on Oct 12, 2023 17:27:06 GMT
If thats the case then benefits should be slashed to get the UK's workshy out working. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 17:42:56 GMT
So by that logic, the most populous countries have the longest waiting lists, right? Number of available appointments has nothing to do with it? Amount of funding of healthcare per citizen has nothing to do with waiting times? I think you’ll find more people, particularly migrants are contributing to larger waiting lists. Not the only reason of course but certainly a factor. Obviously. But there are bigger factors such as number of appointments and funding. My point is that the evidence shows that migrants contribute more than brits in terms of tax. More people doesn’t mean longer waiting lists if those people are helping run the service, and the nhs collapses entirely without migrants. So on balance, migrants are good for the nhs. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 17:44:49 GMT
If thats the case then benefits should be slashed to get the UK's workshy out working. What if they can’t work? What if they are already working two jobs? Hardly work-shy. Most people classed as poor have a job. But underemployment is a massive issue with the huge increase in zero hours contracts. Cutting benefits doesn’t help disabled people or carers of disabled or chronically ill people. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 12, 2023 17:44:52 GMT
I think you’ll find more people, particularly migrants are contributing to larger waiting lists. Not the only reason of course but certainly a factor. Obviously. But there are bigger factors such as number of appointments and funding. My point is that the evidence shows that migrants contribute more than brits in terms of tax. More people doesn’t mean longer waiting lists if those people are helping run the service, and the nhs collapses entirely without migrants. So on balance, migrants are good for the nhs. Don’t get me started on the NHS, it’s a joke which needs a complete overhaul from the very top. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 17:45:58 GMT
So by that logic, the most populous countries have the longest waiting lists, right? Number of available appointments has nothing to do with it? Amount of funding of healthcare per citizen has nothing to do with waiting times? No. Bigger countries with bigger populations have bigger health infrastructure. 20 people queuing up for an ice cream at the ice cream van is going to take longer than if ten people were queuing for an ice at the same ice cream van. You've got to be trolling mate surely or are you genuinely like this ? Thank you for admitting you were wrong |
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Post by henry on Oct 12, 2023 17:48:08 GMT
If thats the case then benefits should be slashed to get the UK's workshy out working. What if they can’t work? What if they are already working two jobs? Hardly work-shy. Most people classed as poor have a job. But underemployment is a massive issue with the huge increase in zero hours contracts. Cutting benefits doesn’t help disabled people or carers of disabled or chronically ill people. Compare like for like then, migrant workforce V UK workforce. its a bollocks article, probably why no one dared to put their name against it. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 17:51:10 GMT
If thats the case then benefits should be slashed to get the UK's workshy out working. It isn't the case mate. Figures and statistics can and are easily manipulated to find the 'results' that those collecting the data want them to show. Oggy posted a link fron the economist because he thinks that by doing so he's proving a point, he THINKS he's be clever but he's not proving a point and he's not clever. The economist is a self proclaimed 'socially liberal' newspaper which means they are leftys. I wouldn't expect the economist to print anything that goes against their ONE WORLD ideology. If you want real facts and real data the best thing to do is to get your information from a mix of different sources and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle but most of all follow your own logic and reasoning. Edit. But yea I agree benefits of the workshy should be cut to get them back working 100%. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 17:53:03 GMT
Obviously. But there are bigger factors such as number of appointments and funding. My point is that the evidence shows that migrants contribute more than brits in terms of tax. More people doesn’t mean longer waiting lists if those people are helping run the service, and the nhs collapses entirely without migrants. So on balance, migrants are good for the nhs. Don’t get me started on the NHS, it’s a joke which needs a complete overhaul from the very top. 70k per year for an 'equality and diversity officer' job. Talk about wasting money. 🙄 |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 12, 2023 17:54:06 GMT
If thats the case then benefits should be slashed to get the UK's workshy out working. What if they can’t work? What if they are already working two jobs? Hardly work-shy. Most people classed as poor have a job. But underemployment is a massive issue with the huge increase in zero hours contracts. Cutting benefits doesn’t help disabled people or carers of disabled or chronically ill people. Youth, start reading what people actually write ffs. He clearly said work shy. Those that can't work obviously don't fit into that category. 🤡 |
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Post by knype on Oct 12, 2023 17:54:15 GMT
I think you’ll find more people, particularly migrants are contributing to larger waiting lists. Not the only reason of course but certainly a factor. Obviously. But there are bigger factors such as number of appointments and funding. My point is that the evidence shows that migrants contribute more than brits in terms of tax. More people doesn’t mean longer waiting lists if those people are helping run the service, and the nhs collapses entirely without migrants. So on balance, migrants are good for the nhs. How does that work when they're in the hotels and not working ? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 18:02:47 GMT
What if they can’t work? What if they are already working two jobs? Hardly work-shy. Most people classed as poor have a job. But underemployment is a massive issue with the huge increase in zero hours contracts. Cutting benefits doesn’t help disabled people or carers of disabled or chronically ill people. Compare like for like then, migrant workforce V UK workforce. its a bollocks article, probably why no one dared to put their name against it. Which of the three articles are bollocks? The Economist, Full fact or the metastudy which refers to various other studies which all show the same results regardless of how you spin the numbers. They compare all migrants with all Brits so do compare like for like. The evidence is overwhelming. I know it is hard to be told that everything you are fed about immigrants in the Mail and Express is rubbish, but it is. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 12, 2023 18:03:56 GMT
Obviously. But there are bigger factors such as number of appointments and funding. My point is that the evidence shows that migrants contribute more than brits in terms of tax. More people doesn’t mean longer waiting lists if those people are helping run the service, and the nhs collapses entirely without migrants. So on balance, migrants are good for the nhs. How does that work when they're in the hotels and not working ? They are all factored into the figures. I agree they shouldn’t be in hotels and should be able to work when their claim is being processed. Their claims should also be processed quickly. But the Home Secretary is at fault for those issues, not me. |
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