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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 11:46:28 GMT
I don't think anyone is saying they want to take what's yours without permission, unless you have specific examples of such and/or can point to where that is party policy. Completely agree about the principal of equality and justice and fairness. Even you must surely agree that ethnic minorities, homosexuals and all kinds of other minority groups have been excluded from those principles for decades, centuries probably. Presumably, you now think that things have gone too far to provide those people with the equality of treatment that they'd been denied previously. However, you'd be foolish to think so. As a straight, white, English male in 21st century Britain (extend that to the world, in reality) you have very little to fear about how you choose to live your life in complete freedom from prejudice, persecution and maltreatment. You might not think so, listening to the likes of Trump, Laurence Fox, or reading the Daily Mail or Express. But that's their entire agenda: to wind up people like you into feel persecuted. The reality is that we straight, white English males continue to be very much in the group that has traditionally been favoured in all aspects of life in this country and most of the developed world. No I disagree mate and it's that arrogance that gets people's backs up. For a poor deprived working class white lad from a rough council estate who is told he can't be proud of his ethnicity because that's racist ....but then he sees minorities being encouraged to celebrate theirs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that is told don't bother applying for the police or the RAF or certain other jobs because he's the wrong colour but then sees the 'quotas' encouraging minorities to apply for the same jobs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that sees initiatives and celebratory events for minorities but none for him and his kind, eventually that can and does, lead to resentment and in turn racism. People aren't born racist, an unfair society makes them so. I don't care about gay rights in other counties I'm fully aware that gays get chucked off buildings in Saudi Arabia but I don't live in Saudia Arabia so its nothing to do with me. In the UK today (im not talking about the 50s any more, them days are long gone), gays and minorities have the same (if not more) rights than everyone else and rightly so. So now they have the same rights and opportunities (if not more so) than everyone else, why do they have to keep pushing for more and more and more. Its not equality that they are seeking anymore , it's privileges and special treatment, and that poor deprived working class white lad from a council estate can see that, and he can see the injustice and unfairness of it all. How do you expect him to react. Minorities have race cards and all sorts of other things that they can pull to get them what they want, whereas the poor, deprived, working class white lad doesn't have such privileges. The irony of it all is most gays, and most minorities aren't anything like how I described. Most just want to crack on with their lives and think it's as pathetic as I do. It's organisations like Stonewall and the Labour Party that constantly push the agenda, thus creating more division in the process, which leads me to the conclusion they know exactly what they're doing and division is exactly what they want. Nobody is telling you that you are racist for being proud of your ethnicity. But you are being critical of people who are saying everyone should be able to proud of their ethnicity. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 11:52:15 GMT
No I disagree mate and it's that arrogance that gets people's backs up. For a poor deprived working class white lad from a rough council estate who is told he can't be proud of his ethnicity because that's racist ....but then he sees minorities being encouraged to celebrate theirs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that is told don't bother applying for the police or the RAF or certain other jobs because he's the wrong colour but then sees the 'quotas' encouraging minorities to apply for the same jobs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that sees initiatives and celebratory events for minorities but none for him and his kind, eventually that can and does, lead to resentment and in turn racism. People aren't born racist, an unfair society makes them so. I don't care about gay rights in other counties I'm fully aware that gays get chucked off buildings in Saudi Arabia but I don't live in Saudia Arabia so its nothing to do with me. In the UK today (im not talking about the 50s any more, them days are long gone), gays and minorities have the same (if not more) rights than everyone else and rightly so. So now they have the same rights and opportunities (if not more so) than everyone else, why do they have to keep pushing for more and more and more. Its not equality that they are seeking anymore , it's privileges and special treatment, and that poor deprived working class white lad from a council estate can see that, and he can see the injustice and unfairness of it all. How do you expect him to react. Minorities have race cards and all sorts of other things that they can pull to get them what they want, whereas the poor, deprived, working class white lad doesn't have such privileges. The irony of it all is most gays, and most minorities aren't anything like how I described. Most just want to crack on with their lives and think it's as pathetic as I do. It's organisations like Stonewall and the Labour Party that constantly push the agenda, thus creating more division in the process, which leads me to the conclusion they know exactly what they're doing and division is exactly what they want. Nobody is telling you that you are racist for being proud of your ethnicity. But you are being critical of people who are saying everyone should be able to proud of their ethnicity. They do mate. People say it white English people all the time. I'm not being critical of people who aren't proud of their ethnicity. I don't care who is or isn't proud of anything. It's the double standards . |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 11:55:40 GMT
Nobody is telling you that you are racist for being proud of your ethnicity. But you are being critical of people who are saying everyone should be able to proud of their ethnicity. They do mate. People say it white English people all the time. I'm not being critical of people who aren't proud of their ethnicity. I don't care who is or isn't proud of anything. It's the double standards . I am sure some people do. But starmer and the Labour Party don’t. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 12:01:31 GMT
They do mate. People say it white English people all the time. I'm not being critical of people who aren't proud of their ethnicity. I don't care who is or isn't proud of anything. It's the double standards . I am sure some people do. But starmer and the Labour Party don’t. We'll have to agree to disagree about Starmer and the Labour Party on that one then mate. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 12:06:44 GMT
No I disagree mate and it's that arrogance that gets people's backs up. For a poor deprived working class white lad from a rough council estate who is told he can't be proud of his ethnicity because that's racist ....but then he sees minorities being encouraged to celebrate theirs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that is told don't bother applying for the police or the RAF or certain other jobs because he's the wrong colour but then sees the 'quotas' encouraging minorities to apply for the same jobs. For a poor deprived working class white lad that sees initiatives and celebratory events for minorities but none for him and his kind, eventually that can and does, lead to resentment and in turn racism. People aren't born racist, an unfair society makes them so. I don't care about gay rights in other counties I'm fully aware that gays get chucked off buildings in Saudi Arabia but I don't live in Saudia Arabia so its nothing to do with me. In the UK today (im not talking about the 50s any more, them days are long gone), gays and minorities have the same (if not more) rights than everyone else and rightly so. So now they have the same rights and opportunities (if not more so) than everyone else, why do they have to keep pushing for more and more and more. Its not equality that they are seeking anymore , it's privileges and special treatment, and that poor deprived working class white lad from a council estate can see that, and he can see the injustice and unfairness of it all. How do you expect him to react. Minorities have race cards and all sorts of other things that they can pull to get them what they want, whereas the poor, deprived, working class white lad doesn't have such privileges. The irony of it all is most gays, and most minorities aren't anything like how I described. Most just want to crack on with their lives and think it's as pathetic as I do. It's organisations like Stonewall and the Labour Party that constantly push the agenda, thus creating more division in the process, which leads me to the conclusion they know exactly what they're doing and division is exactly what they want. This is interesting but are blacks (for example) actually provided with more rights and opportunity than whites? Despite performing equally well at school (in blinded exams where ethnicity isnt really a factor) UK blacks earn 9.2% less, on average. Black women are 3.7x more likely to die in childbirth in the UK than white women. Similarly, black infants are more likely to be stillborn or have extended perinatal deaths. In 2022, 91.9% of police officers were white (versus 81.7% in the general population). 9.6% of regular reserves are non-white (any other ethnic minority). Only 3.5% of the RAF was self-identified as an ethnic minority in the RAF at that time. For both jobs you mention, there is an enrichment of whites. For the RAF, only about 18.5% of all officers are female. So, it looks like there is a lot of room for white males in these jobs. Yes in a lot of circumstances blacks are afforded more opportunities and privileges than whites. The earning thing. - I don't believe it. The child birth thing. - That's more religious than racial, some religions such as Islam, practised by many sub saharan blacks in the UK provide obstacles and barriers for midwives when it comes to treating them, barriers and issues not caused by the nhs or midwives themselves but the patients. RAF - police thing. Doesn't matter what race a copper or a pilot is. It should be the best man or woman for the job. Preventing whites from having said jobs in favour of minorities is racist however you want to spin it. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 12:13:39 GMT
I am sure some people do. But starmer and the Labour Party don’t. We'll have to agree to disagree about Starmer and the Labour Party on that one then mate. Absolutely nothing about culture wars in Rayner’s speech to the labour conference. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 12:24:07 GMT
We'll have to agree to disagree about Starmer and the Labour Party on that one then mate. Absolutely nothing about culture wars in Rayner’s speech to the labour conference. I wouldn't expect there to be. I did say why in a previous post. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 8, 2023 12:32:14 GMT
Does this Principal extend to all members of Society or just Straight, White, Men? All mate, thats the point. I agree with you but poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity but the impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems but rather how to feed and heat their families
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves. This is classic divide and conquer tactics.
You conflate BLM UK and US that are two very different organisations with very different aims. BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space. The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 12:35:37 GMT
All mate, thats the point. I agree with you but poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity but the impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems but rather how to feed and heat their families
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves. This is classic divide and conquer tactics.
You conflate BLM UK and US that are two very different organisations with very different aims. BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space. The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know
Off the pub have a game of darts with me lad I'll reply properly when I get in. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 12:39:07 GMT
This is interesting but are blacks (for example) actually provided with more rights and opportunity than whites? Despite performing equally well at school (in blinded exams where ethnicity isnt really a factor) UK blacks earn 9.2% less, on average. Black women are 3.7x more likely to die in childbirth in the UK than white women. Similarly, black infants are more likely to be stillborn or have extended perinatal deaths. In 2022, 91.9% of police officers were white (versus 81.7% in the general population). 9.6% of regular reserves are non-white (any other ethnic minority). Only 3.5% of the RAF was self-identified as an ethnic minority in the RAF at that time. For both jobs you mention, there is an enrichment of whites. For the RAF, only about 18.5% of all officers are female. So, it looks like there is a lot of room for white males in these jobs. Yes in a lot of circumstances blacks are afforded more opportunities and privileges than whites. The earning thing. - I don't believe it. The child birth thing. - That's more religious than racial, some religions such as Islam, practised by many sub saharan blacks in the UK provide obstacles and barriers for midwives when it comes to treating them, barriers and issues not caused by the nhs or midwives themselves but the patients. RAF - police thing. Doesn't matter what race a copper or a pilot is. It should be the best man or woman for the job. Preventing whites from having said jobs in favour of minorities is racist however you want to spin it. Actually, the driving factors were sepsis, thrombosis and blood clots. That’s poor clinical management in and immediately after labour. Personalized preventive medicine is important and failure to consider the effects of additional risk factors is an NHS issue. It’s possible that some black Muslims do interfere with standard clinical practice. Just as some white Witnesses might as well. Neither group would make up enough of an impact to alter the effect size so much. Do you think that the large enrichment of whites in both job types you had brought up is due to “the best man or woman for the job”? Is there a reason why whites would be such better applicants, on average, that they are enriched in these job roles? Again, these are roles that you have said can’t be filled by whites but that are almost entirely made up by them. For me, a police officer should be both able to enforce the law by responding to crimes and reduce crime by engaging with the community. There has been so many studies to show that people engage more with people who have things in common with them. As such, I’d assume that an ethnically diverse police force would be very beneficial to community prevention efforts. Ideally, they’d also provide a strong role model for children and teens, which may keep them out of trouble. People generally pick role models who look like them. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 13:31:39 GMT
All mate, thats the point. I agree with you but poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity but the impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems but rather how to feed and heat their families
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves. This is classic divide and conquer tactics.
You conflate BLM UK and US that are two very different organisations with very different aims. BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space. The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know
Poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues - I agree, it's the left that caused the culture wars though with all their cuckery and white straight bashing.
Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity - Agreed
Impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible - Agreed. But them things don't only impact minorities, whites are burdened with that as well.
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems - Agreed. They won't be in the forefront of their minds, its not in the forefront of my mind either but I do find it pathetic and I believe it comes with an even sicker agenda.
But rather how to feed and heat their families - Agreed
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence. - I don't agree, and it's certainly not an indulgence.
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves - They are though, its not false.
This is classic divide and conquer tactics - Agreed, they know exactly what they're doing. Winding natives up by giving migrants hand out and benefits. I've said before I don't blame the migrants, I blame the fellow natives that let it happen.
You conflate BLM UK and US - I don't , im fully aware of the difference.
They are two very different organisations with very different aims. - I wouldn't say very different but i agree there certainly are differences. BLM UK are basically a pound land version of something that they wanted to copycat because they think it makes them look 'right on' ✊🏻 when in reality they're just white middle class studenty types who think they speak for the black 'community' ( there isn't even such a thing)
BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space - They arent. BLM uk are race baiters. They are another group designed to divide and conquer. Blaming whitey for all their ills isnt having open discussion, its pointing the finger. You said further up about people not having the time to worry about trans issues etc when they have families to feed and bills to pay, that works with colonialism as well. Most working people don't have time to worry about something that happened 200 years before they were even born and by pointing out some aspects of Britains unsavory past but ignoring their own and not providing context, just makes them come across and 2 faced hypocrites which is exactly what they are.
The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated - It's not. They don't care about racism, they enjoy stoking racism, they want whites to feel guilt. Any group that doesn’t acknowledge that racism cuts both ways is racist.
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. - I don't care about the USA mate it's nothing to do with me.
A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know - Never heard of them but if they are anything like BLM or other groups that only speak out for one ethnicity id say its safe to assume that they are anti white race grifters as well. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 13:39:42 GMT
Yes in a lot of circumstances blacks are afforded more opportunities and privileges than whites. The earning thing. - I don't believe it. The child birth thing. - That's more religious than racial, some religions such as Islam, practised by many sub saharan blacks in the UK provide obstacles and barriers for midwives when it comes to treating them, barriers and issues not caused by the nhs or midwives themselves but the patients. RAF - police thing. Doesn't matter what race a copper or a pilot is. It should be the best man or woman for the job. Preventing whites from having said jobs in favour of minorities is racist however you want to spin it. Actually, the driving factors were sepsis, thrombosis and blood clots. That’s poor clinical management in and immediately after labour. Personalized preventive medicine is important and failure to consider the effects of additional risk factors is an NHS issue. It’s possible that some black Muslims do interfere with standard clinical practice. Just as some white Witnesses might as well. Neither group would make up enough of an impact to alter the effect size so much. Do you think that the large enrichment of whites in both job types you had brought up is due to “the best man or woman for the job”? Is there a reason why whites would be such better applicants, on average, that they are enriched in these job roles? Again, these are roles that you have said can’t be filled by whites but that are almost entirely made up by them. For me, a police officer should be both able to enforce the law by responding to crimes and reduce crime by engaging with the community. There has been so many studies to show that people engage more with people who have things in common with them. As such, I’d assume that an ethnically diverse police force would be very beneficial to community prevention efforts. Ideally, they’d also provide a strong role model for children and teens, which may keep them out of trouble. People generally pick role models who look like them. When you start a reply with 'actually' it just makes you come across as pompous mate but for the sake of debate I'll ignore it . It's not just thrombosis and sepsis and blood clots. I wrote a dissertation on this very subject. Cultural attitudes, normally found amongst Muslims and cultural factors are the biggest reason for this , its not because the midwives are racist. Not everything is because of whitey being racist. RAF, Police - The reason there will be more whites is because believe it or not we are ....or once were a majority white country. I'd imagine most members of the Nigerian police and military are black for the same reason, ie Nigeria is a predominantly black country. Culture comes into it again as well. Alot of minorities don't feel any loyalty to Britain which means they are less likely to want to join an organisation who's job it is to defend it. Same goes for the police . In many black communities especially in places like London they think being a 'gangsta innit' is 'cool'. What type of 'gangsta' would want to join the 'feds'. Again its cultural, its not right to blame everything on racism. That being said it should be the best man or woman for the job every time without exception even if that means one group is over represented. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 14:03:52 GMT
Absolutely nothing about culture wars in Rayner’s speech to the labour conference. I wouldn't expect there to be. I did say why in a previous post. So did I. It is a tory obsession. Labour seem to be focusingn of what actually matters: nhs, cost of living crisis, housing, education |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 14:53:15 GMT
I wouldn't expect there to be. I did say why in a previous post. So did I. It is a tory obsession. Labour seem to be focusingn of what actually matters: nhs, cost of living crisis, housing, education They do focus on it, but then when its obvious they are loosing it they play thick and blame the tories. The nhs, cost of living , housing and education is impacted by the culture wars , I'm sure I said that further up though so at the risk of going round in circles and repeating ourselves like we did before I'll leave it at that unless there is something further to add? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 15:05:33 GMT
So did I. It is a tory obsession. Labour seem to be focusingn of what actually matters: nhs, cost of living crisis, housing, education They do focus on it, but then when its obvious they are loosing it they play thick and blame the tories. The nhs, cost of living , housing and education is impacted by the culture wars , I'm sure I said that further up though so at the risk of going round in circles and repeating ourselves like we did before I'll leave it at that unless there is something further to add? How does the definition of a woman impact housing or the cost of living crisi? |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 15:10:11 GMT
They do focus on it, but then when its obvious they are loosing it they play thick and blame the tories. The nhs, cost of living , housing and education is impacted by the culture wars , I'm sure I said that further up though so at the risk of going round in circles and repeating ourselves like we did before I'll leave it at that unless there is something further to add? How does the definition of a woman impact housing or the cost of living crisi? It doesn't. But it impacts education which in turn impacts the general mental state and cohesion of society in general. The culture wars aren't only about the definition of a women though, they're about perceived racism, immigration, and whole list of other things that can and do have a knock on effect. A society's mental and emotional well being is as important as anything else. No point being given a flat if you can't afford to pay the rent because you can't hold down a job due to severe mental health issues. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 15:28:31 GMT
How does the definition of a woman impact housing or the cost of living crisi? It doesn't. But it impacts education which in turn impacts the general mental state and cohesion of society in general. The culture wars aren't only about the definition of a women though, they're about perceived racism, immigration, and whole list of other things that can and do have a knock on effect. A society's mental and emotional well being is as important as anything else. No point being given a flat if you can't afford to pay the rent because you can't hold down a job due to severe mental health issues. It has absolutely no material impact on education. Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) so what we are really talking about is small boats. That is a culture war. Immigration as a whole isn’t. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives. Obviously a competent home office would mean we would be spending so much money housing asylum seekers, and they would be able to work and pay tax and afford their own housing whilst their claims are pending, and it would mean we could focus more money on important issues. Perceived racism (which someone from an ethnic minority may call racism) doesn’t materially impact you as a white person. It isn’t really for you to be able to say with any authority about how non-white people are treated, because you haven’t ever experienced it. The length of time for an ambulance to come to the aid of a loved one, or to get a cancer scan, or to see a GP, or the ability to be able to buy food for your kids, to buy a house, to afford your rent, or to heat your home: these are the issues that impact the vast majority of us. That is what Labour are talking about. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 15:49:13 GMT
It doesn't. But it impacts education which in turn impacts the general mental state and cohesion of society in general. The culture wars aren't only about the definition of a women though, they're about perceived racism, immigration, and whole list of other things that can and do have a knock on effect. A society's mental and emotional well being is as important as anything else. No point being given a flat if you can't afford to pay the rent because you can't hold down a job due to severe mental health issues. It has absolutely no material impact on education. Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) so what we are really talking about is small boats. That is a culture war. Immigration as a whole isn’t. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives. Obviously a competent home office would mean we would be spending so much money housing asylum seekers, and they would be able to work and pay tax and afford their own housing whilst their claims are pending, and it would mean we could focus more money on important issues. Perceived racism (which someone from an ethnic minority may call racism) doesn’t materially impact you as a white person. It isn’t really for you to be able to say with any authority about how non-white people are treated, because you haven’t ever experienced it. The length of time for an ambulance to come to the aid of a loved one, or to get a cancer scan, or to see a GP, or the ability to be able to buy food for your kids, to buy a house, to afford your rent, or to heat your home: these are the issues that impact the vast majority of us. That is what Labour are talking about.
It has absolutely no material impact on education
It definitely does.
Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) It does
what we are really talking about is small boats
I’m talking about small boats AND the ‘legal’ kind.
Immigration as a whole isn’t. (Culture war) It is. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives.
They do, but regardless its the principle of the matter. They shouldn’t be allowed to take what’s not theirs. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2023 16:09:59 GMT
It has absolutely no material impact on education. Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) so what we are really talking about is small boats. That is a culture war. Immigration as a whole isn’t. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives. Obviously a competent home office would mean we would be spending so much money housing asylum seekers, and they would be able to work and pay tax and afford their own housing whilst their claims are pending, and it would mean we could focus more money on important issues. Perceived racism (which someone from an ethnic minority may call racism) doesn’t materially impact you as a white person. It isn’t really for you to be able to say with any authority about how non-white people are treated, because you haven’t ever experienced it. The length of time for an ambulance to come to the aid of a loved one, or to get a cancer scan, or to see a GP, or the ability to be able to buy food for your kids, to buy a house, to afford your rent, or to heat your home: these are the issues that impact the vast majority of us. That is what Labour are talking about.
It has absolutely no material impact on education
It definitely does.
Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) It does
what we are really talking about is small boats
I’m talking about small boats AND the ‘legal’ kind.
Immigration as a whole isn’t. (Culture war) It is. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives.
They do, but regardless its the principle of the matter. They shouldn’t be allowed to take what’s not theirs. Please explain how those issues materially impact us? Focus on materiality. A short part of one or two lessons over the course of a 11 or 13 year education so children understand that some people change gender is not material. Small boats don’t impact us at all unless you live next door to where asylum seekers are housed, but that is statistically extremely unlikely as there are so few. If the home office processed claims or let them work then that would deal with it. Immigration as a whole isn’t a culture war in my opinion. It is a big issue for every nation because many nations (ours included) have a shortage or workers and need a large immigrant work force. I wouldn’t class it as a culture war. I don’t think there are different cultural groups wanting different things. I accept that immigration levels do impact our lives in a variety of different ways. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 16:17:00 GMT
It has absolutely no material impact on education
It definitely does.
Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) It does
what we are really talking about is small boats
I’m talking about small boats AND the ‘legal’ kind.
Immigration as a whole isn’t. (Culture war) It is. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives.
They do, but regardless its the principle of the matter. They shouldn’t be allowed to take what’s not theirs. Please explain how those issues materially impact us? Focus on materiality. A short part of one or two lessons over the course of a 11 or 13 year education so children understand that some people change gender is not material. Small boats don’t impact us at all unless you live next door to where asylum seekers are housed, but that is statistically extremely unlikely as there are so few. If the home office processed claims or let them work then that would deal with it. Immigration as a whole isn’t a culture war in my opinion. It is a big issue for every nation because many nations (ours included) have a shortage or workers and need a large immigrant work force. I wouldn’t class it as a culture war. I don’t think there are different cultural groups wanting different things. I accept that immigration levels do impact our lives in a variety of different ways. It's a culture issue because the left make it one mate. Busy atm I'll reply properly later. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 16:31:25 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 8, 2023 16:34:19 GMT
I agree with you but poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity but the impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems but rather how to feed and heat their families
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves. This is classic divide and conquer tactics.
You conflate BLM UK and US that are two very different organisations with very different aims. BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space. The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know
Poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues - I agree, it's the left that caused the culture wars though with all their cuckery and white straight bashing.
Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity - Agreed
Impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible - Agreed. But them things don't only impact minorities, whites are burdened with that as well.
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems - Agreed. They won't be in the forefront of their minds, its not in the forefront of my mind either but I do find it pathetic and I believe it comes with an even sicker agenda.
But rather how to feed and heat their families - Agreed
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence. - I don't agree, and it's certainly not an indulgence.
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves - They are though, its not false.
This is classic divide and conquer tactics - Agreed, they know exactly what they're doing. Winding natives up by giving migrants hand out and benefits. I've said before I don't blame the migrants, I blame the fellow natives that let it happen.
You conflate BLM UK and US - I don't , im fully aware of the difference.
They are two very different organisations with very different aims. - I wouldn't say very different but i agree there certainly are differences. BLM UK are basically a pound land version of something that they wanted to copycat because they think it makes them look 'right on' ✊🏻 when in reality they're just white middle class studenty types who think they speak for the black 'community' ( there isn't even such a thing)
BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space - They arent. BLM uk are race baiters. They are another group designed to divide and conquer. Blaming whitey for all their ills isnt having open discussion, its pointing the finger. You said further up about people not having the time to worry about trans issues etc when they have families to feed and bills to pay, that works with colonialism as well. Most working people don't have time to worry about something that happened 200 years before they were even born and by pointing out some aspects of Britains unsavory past but ignoring their own and not providing context, just makes them come across and 2 faced hypocrites which is exactly what they are.
The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated - It's not. They don't care about racism, they enjoy stoking racism, they want whites to feel guilt. Any group that doesn’t acknowledge that racism cuts both ways is racist.
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. - I don't care about the USA mate it's nothing to do with me.
A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know - Never heard of them but if they are anything like BLM or other groups that only speak out for one ethnicity id say its safe to assume that they are anti white race grifters as well. Hope you enjoyed your Darts There is no effort to push what you describe as the White Privilege Narrative either from MSM or any Political Party Left, Right or Centre and please don't use Diane Abbott who is a member of no Party and no-one takes seriously on any issue I specifically said that Poverty is not based on ethnicity but efforts are made to divide that Socio Economic cohort Even if you are correct, which I don't accept, why would it be of major importance to 99.5% of Society how 0.5% identify? You say you know the difference between BLM UK and US but you chide Starmer for metaphorically "taking the knee" which is a movement to show solidarity to stamp out Racism which you acknowledge exists but I disagree with your reasons as to what causes it. You then contradict yourself by again conflating BLM UK as Pound Shop copycat version when it is no such thing. Of course there are Black Communities you are posting on a Stoke City Community Colonisation may have started 500 years ago but it left a lasting legacy and many of those Countries didn't achieve independence until the 1950/60/70s and now many 1st or 2nd generation of those former Colonised reside in the same space. There is a desire for the proper telling of that history which has never happened There is no requirement for modern day Brits to feel guilty but understanding may help harmony. British people may rightly feel resentment towards Germany or Japan as a Country but not individual Germans or Japanese but they have had the benefit of a proper telling of History Why would UFFC be Anti White and not just Anti Racist Policing when several Government sponsored Reports say exactly this They call for accountability and a change of practice |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 16:36:13 GMT
Poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues - I agree, it's the left that caused the culture wars though with all their cuckery and white straight bashing.
Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity - Agreed
Impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible - Agreed. But them things don't only impact minorities, whites are burdened with that as well.
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems - Agreed. They won't be in the forefront of their minds, its not in the forefront of my mind either but I do find it pathetic and I believe it comes with an even sicker agenda.
But rather how to feed and heat their families - Agreed
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence. - I don't agree, and it's certainly not an indulgence.
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves - They are though, its not false.
This is classic divide and conquer tactics - Agreed, they know exactly what they're doing. Winding natives up by giving migrants hand out and benefits. I've said before I don't blame the migrants, I blame the fellow natives that let it happen.
You conflate BLM UK and US - I don't , im fully aware of the difference.
They are two very different organisations with very different aims. - I wouldn't say very different but i agree there certainly are differences. BLM UK are basically a pound land version of something that they wanted to copycat because they think it makes them look 'right on' ✊🏻 when in reality they're just white middle class studenty types who think they speak for the black 'community' ( there isn't even such a thing)
BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space - They arent. BLM uk are race baiters. They are another group designed to divide and conquer. Blaming whitey for all their ills isnt having open discussion, its pointing the finger. You said further up about people not having the time to worry about trans issues etc when they have families to feed and bills to pay, that works with colonialism as well. Most working people don't have time to worry about something that happened 200 years before they were even born and by pointing out some aspects of Britains unsavory past but ignoring their own and not providing context, just makes them come across and 2 faced hypocrites which is exactly what they are.
The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated - It's not. They don't care about racism, they enjoy stoking racism, they want whites to feel guilt. Any group that doesn’t acknowledge that racism cuts both ways is racist.
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. - I don't care about the USA mate it's nothing to do with me.
A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know - Never heard of them but if they are anything like BLM or other groups that only speak out for one ethnicity id say its safe to assume that they are anti white race grifters as well. Hope you enjoyed your Darts There is no effort to push what you describe as the White Privilege Narrative either from MSM or any Political Party Left, Right or Centre and please don't use Diane Abbott who is a member of no Party and no-one takes seriously on any issue I specifically said that Poverty is not based on ethnicity but efforts are made to divide that Socio Economic cohort Even if you are correct, which I don't accept, why would it be of major importance to 99.5% of Society how 0.5% identify? You say you know the difference between BLM UK and US but you chide Starmer for metaphorically "taking the knee" which is a movement to show solidarity to stamp out Racism which you acknowledge exists but I disagree with your reasons as to what causes it. You then contradict yourself by again conflating BLM UK as Pound Shop copycat version when it is no such thing. Of course there are Black Communities you are posting on a Stoke City Community Colonisation may have started 500 years ago but it left a lasting legacy and many of those Countries didn't achieve independence until the 1950/60/70s and now many 1st or 2nd generation of those former Colonised reside in the same space. There is a desire for the proper telling of that history which has never happened There is no requirement for modern day Brits to feel guilty but understanding may help harmony. British people may rightly feel resentment towards Germany or Japan as a Country but not individual Germans or Japanese but they have had the benefit of a proper telling of History Why would UFFC be Anti White and not just Anti Racist Policing when several Government sponsored Reports say exactly this They call for accountability and a change of practice Last minute change of plans mate. I haven't read your post but I will do later and reply. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 17:05:28 GMT
UK 'Conservatives' Stealth Tax to Take Tens of Billions More From Families
October 7, 2023
The stealth tax raid on working people by Britain’s nominally Conservative government is to take even more money than initially thought, as inflation continues to force higher taxes through a process known as fiscal drag.
The UK government is set to take an extra £40 billion a year in taxes on jobs by 2028 with a stealth tax rise that will see more workers and families dragged into higher tax brackets through frozen thresholds and soaring inflation.
This quiet raid on the nation’s finances amounts to the largest increase of taxes on income “in at least half a century”, so says the Resolution Foundation, who have calculated the amount the government is due to benefit by not fixing the tax system is outpacing earlier estimates.
This cash grab will be achieved without the government having to deal with a bad news cycle as is typical when announcing a visible tax rise. Instead, taxes will soar automatically by having arbitrary income tax bands and not adjusting them, as a just state would, as incomes rise with inflation.
The impact of this, which has been going on for decades but has reached “totally unprecedented” levels under the present Conservative administration, is best seen in the upper tax bracket, which was first created decades ago to punish the super-wealthy. Today, a failure to adjust the threshold as inflation soars has seen upper-working and middle-class occupations like teachers, nurses, and police officers dragged into the punishment band.
As late as 2003 not a single nurse in the UK paid tax in the top band, but a decade later tens of thousands did, and now hundreds of thousands do. Nurses are not meaningfully any wealthier in 2023 than 20 years ago, but they are taxed more.
By 2028, it is thought a fifth of all taxpayers will be paying the 40 per cent higher tax rate once meant only for the very wealthy.
It is believed the government may attempt to curry favour with voters before the next general election, which is expected to come in the late winter of 2024. Any feeling of relief from that is purely illusory, the Resolution Foundation warns: the amount of extra money taken from working people through the stealth tax rises is so considerable, that any cut would “pale in comparison”.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 17:26:08 GMT
Poverty is the biggest scourge in Society no matter what ethnicity not Culture War issues - I agree, it's the left that caused the culture wars though with all their cuckery and white straight bashing.
Education is the best long term solution to provide increased opportunity - Agreed
Impediments to achieving that like hunger, lack of heating, family functionality, poorer health general and mental outcomes must be tackled alongside to make it possible - Agreed. But them things don't only impact minorities, whites are burdened with that as well.
I doubt the majority of people in this socio economic background have the definition of 0.5% of Society at the forefront of their problems - Agreed. They won't be in the forefront of their minds, its not in the forefront of my mind either but I do find it pathetic and I believe it comes with an even sicker agenda.
But rather how to feed and heat their families - Agreed
It is only people in a higher socio economic group have time for this indulgence. - I don't agree, and it's certainly not an indulgence.
They do have concerns when they are falsely told that hordes of immigrants are invading the Country and being given supports much higher than themselves - They are though, its not false.
This is classic divide and conquer tactics - Agreed, they know exactly what they're doing. Winding natives up by giving migrants hand out and benefits. I've said before I don't blame the migrants, I blame the fellow natives that let it happen.
You conflate BLM UK and US - I don't , im fully aware of the difference.
They are two very different organisations with very different aims. - I wouldn't say very different but i agree there certainly are differences. BLM UK are basically a pound land version of something that they wanted to copycat because they think it makes them look 'right on' ✊🏻 when in reality they're just white middle class studenty types who think they speak for the black 'community' ( there isn't even such a thing)
BLM UK is primarily about having an open conversation about Britain's Colonial History and former people who were Colonised attitude to it who now inhabit a shared space - They arent. BLM uk are race baiters. They are another group designed to divide and conquer. Blaming whitey for all their ills isnt having open discussion, its pointing the finger. You said further up about people not having the time to worry about trans issues etc when they have families to feed and bills to pay, that works with colonialism as well. Most working people don't have time to worry about something that happened 200 years before they were even born and by pointing out some aspects of Britains unsavory past but ignoring their own and not providing context, just makes them come across and 2 faced hypocrites which is exactly what they are.
The overarching aim being through better understanding casual racism is eliminated - It's not. They don't care about racism, they enjoy stoking racism, they want whites to feel guilt. Any group that doesn’t acknowledge that racism cuts both ways is racist.
BLM US is very much about how US Police engage with the Black Community and the frequent negative outcomes. - I don't care about the USA mate it's nothing to do with me.
A UK equivalent organisation is United Friends and Families Campaign UFFC. I doubt many have heard of them as there not very active as far as I know - Never heard of them but if they are anything like BLM or other groups that only speak out for one ethnicity id say its safe to assume that they are anti white race grifters as well. Hope you enjoyed your Darts There is no effort to push what you describe as the White Privilege Narrative either from MSM or any Political Party Left, Right or Centre and please don't use Diane Abbott who is a member of no Party and no-one takes seriously on any issue I specifically said that Poverty is not based on ethnicity but efforts are made to divide that Socio Economic cohort Even if you are correct, which I don't accept, why would it be of major importance to 99.5% of Society how 0.5% identify? You say you know the difference between BLM UK and US but you chide Starmer for metaphorically "taking the knee" which is a movement to show solidarity to stamp out Racism which you acknowledge exists but I disagree with your reasons as to what causes it. You then contradict yourself by again conflating BLM UK as Pound Shop copycat version when it is no such thing. Of course there are Black Communities you are posting on a Stoke City Community Colonisation may have started 500 years ago but it left a lasting legacy and many of those Countries didn't achieve independence until the 1950/60/70s and now many 1st or 2nd generation of those former Colonised reside in the same space. There is a desire for the proper telling of that history which has never happened There is no requirement for modern day Brits to feel guilty but understanding may help harmony. British people may rightly feel resentment towards Germany or Japan as a Country but not individual Germans or Japanese but they have had the benefit of a proper telling of History Why would UFFC be Anti White and not just Anti Racist Policing when several Government sponsored Reports say exactly this They call for accountability and a change of practice
There is no effort to push what you describe as the White Privilege Narrative either from MSM or any Political Party Left, Right or Centre – There clearly is mate
and please don't use Diane Abbott who is a member of no Party – She was Labour and her anti white rhetoric is reflective of the general view of the Labour party.
And no-one takes seriously (Abbot) on any issue –Labour did, no one else does though
I specifically said that Poverty is not based on ethnicity but efforts are made to divide that Socio Economic cohort – I agreed with you
Even if you are correct – I am.
which I don't accept – It doesn’t matter.
why would it be of major importance to 99.5% of Society how 0.5% identify? – It doesn’t, I never said it did, what matters is how everyone else is expected to play along and told that if they don’t they are being hateful. It matters when its being taught in schools in an attempt to indoctrinate other peoples kids.
You say you know the difference between BLM UK and US – I do
but you chide Starmer for metaphorically "taking the knee" – He did though
which is a movement to show solidarity to stamp out Racism – its not, its a movement to point the finger at whitey and blame us for their ills.
which you acknowledge exists – It does exist but it also exists towards whites, it cuts both ways.
but I disagree with your reasons as to what causes it – I respect your right to disagree, it doesn’t change my opinion though.
You then contradict yourself – I don’t
again conflating BLM UK as Pound Shop copycat version when it is no such thing – That’s exactly what it is
Of course there are Black Communities you are posting on a Stoke City Community – What has posting on the oatcake got to do with black communities. I never said black communities don’t exist. I said ‘the black community' doesn’t exist which it doesn’t. They don’t all think alike or have the same cultures or beliefs. Its racist to assume other wise. Colonisation may have started 500 years ago but it left a lasting legacy and many of those Countries didn't achieve independence until the 1950/60/70s and now many 1st or 2nd generation of those former Colonised reside in the same space. – Correct
There is a desire for the proper telling of that history which has never happened – It has. By proper what you mean is rewriting history from an anti British angle to make minorities feel better about themselves and give them a disingenuous way to play the victim. There is no requirement for modern day Brits to feel guilty – Correct, i definitely dont feel guilty. Im proud of the British empire and the role my ancestors played in it.
but understanding may help harmony – It’s not understanding that BLM want, its a desire for Brits to feel ashamed and to feel like we owe them something. British people may rightly feel resentment towards Germany or Japan as a Country but not individual Germans or Japanese but they have had the benefit of a proper telling of History – I’m British I don’t feel resentment towards German or Japan, that would be pathetic. Why would UFFC be Anti White and not just Anti Racist – Antifa, BLM, and other similar so called ‘Anti racist’ organisations are anti white. It seems to be a common theme so i think its safe to assume that UFFC are probably the same but i could be wrong , I’ve never heard of them and have no desire to research who they are
Policing when several Government sponsored Reports say exactly this They call for accountability and a change of practice – I couldn’t care less what the government say mate. When did the government last care about truth or the British people? |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 17:51:28 GMT
It doesn't. But it impacts education which in turn impacts the general mental state and cohesion of society in general. The culture wars aren't only about the definition of a women though, they're about perceived racism, immigration, and whole list of other things that can and do have a knock on effect. A society's mental and emotional well being is as important as anything else. No point being given a flat if you can't afford to pay the rent because you can't hold down a job due to severe mental health issues. It has absolutely no material impact on education. Illegal immigration (which doesn’t really exist) so what we are really talking about is small boats. That is a culture war. Immigration as a whole isn’t. Small boats don’t materially impact the vast majority of our lives. Obviously a competent home office would mean we would be spending so much money housing asylum seekers, and they would be able to work and pay tax and afford their own housing whilst their claims are pending, and it would mean we could focus more money on important issues. Perceived racism (which someone from an ethnic minority may call racism) doesn’t materially impact you as a white person. It isn’t really for you to be able to say with any authority about how non-white people are treated, because you haven’t ever experienced it. The length of time for an ambulance to come to the aid of a loved one, or to get a cancer scan, or to see a GP, or the ability to be able to buy food for your kids, to buy a house, to afford your rent, or to heat your home: these are the issues that impact the vast majority of us. That is what Labour are talking about. - It doesn't matter what they call it. What matters is is it actual racism, perceived racism, or the race card being pulled out.
It isn’t really for you to be able to say with any authority about how non-white people are treated - I don't need permission to have an opinion and my opinion is as relevant as anyone elses. Just because im white that doesnt mean my opinion is worth less and just because someone is brown that doesn't mean their opinion is worth more.
because you haven’t ever experienced it - How do you know what I have or haven't experienced. Racism cuts both ways. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 8, 2023 18:01:15 GMT
It’s absolutely right that Big Nige has distanced himself from rejoining the Conservative Party despite the Victorian Pencil laying out the metaphorical red carpet for him on GB News.
He’s right, the Conservatives do not stand with his values and you could put a fag paper between the tories and labour on policy.
The tories are certain to lose the next election. It’s at that point Nige may just have a rethink and lead that party to a landslide at the next one😉
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 18:18:58 GMT
It’s absolutely right that Big Nige has distanced himself from rejoining the Conservative Party despite the Victorian Pencil laying out the metaphorical red carpet for him on GB News. He’s right, the Conservatives do not stand with his values and you could put a fag paper between the tories and labour on policy. The tories are certain to lose the next election. It’s at that point Nige may just have a rethink and lead that party to a landslide at the next one😉 He should make the conservative party conservative again instead of another version of the Labour party but in blue, I'm sure that's something we can all get behind because at the moment what we have is lefty wokeys in red and what might as well be lefty wokeys in blue. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 8, 2023 18:25:04 GMT
It’s absolutely right that Big Nige has distanced himself from rejoining the Conservative Party despite the Victorian Pencil laying out the metaphorical red carpet for him on GB News. He’s right, the Conservatives do not stand with his values and you could put a fag paper between the tories and labour on policy. The tories are certain to lose the next election. It’s at that point Nige may just have a rethink and lead that party to a landslide at the next one😉 He should make the conservative party conservative again instead of another version of the Labour party but in blue, I'm sure that's something we can all get behind because at the moment what we have is lefty wokeys in red and what might as well be lefty wokeys in blue. After the general election of course |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 8, 2023 18:29:22 GMT
He should make the conservative party conservative again instead of another version of the Labour party but in blue, I'm sure that's something we can all get behind because at the moment what we have is lefty wokeys in red and what might as well be lefty wokeys in blue. After the general election of course Ye, no point doing it now. |
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