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Post by Foster on Oct 5, 2023 18:34:18 GMT
I completely agree with the second paragraph particularly. It seems to me that the consensus is that the voting system that only ever produces 2 possible outcomes is the problem. Almost no other places on earth have the outdated first past the post system. Until then, it is about the lesser of 2 evils. Labour members want proportional representation. Tory members obviously don’t as it kills their party. Therefore I think Labour are more likely to bring it in, especially if they have to rely on another party for power. PR encourages more parties to work together. If means we can vote for who we want rather than voting tactically to stop who we don’t want. It is the best way to get people engaging more in politics and feeling like their vote actually matters. To coin a phrase, it is the single best way to take back control of our country from millionaire corrupt politicians and empower people. For PR, vote green or lib dem (or possibly reform). PR has potentially given the Slovakian people a putin supporting apologist on the strength of polling 23% All hail democracy in action If it’s all right with you I’ll stick with the system where you can actually vote for the individual person to represent you What's your point? They vote how they want. I can't see anything fairer than PR. Unless you have a better alternative? |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Oct 5, 2023 18:39:00 GMT
Fine. But keep an open mind until manifestos. Then spoil your ballot if you wish. What we really need is the 2 main parties agreeing to place certain matters of great importance into a cross party arena. Whereby they committ to a joint plan for items like education, healthcare and the planning system. Instead of messing with these crucial items every election cycle just to protect their voter base. All that results is chaos with changes of direction constantly happening. You can't ever sort anything with all that going on. This. This. This. Many of the problems that this country currently have are entrenched issues that need long-term solutions. However, neither of the main parties have much interest in long-term solutions because: a) It is not a vote winner. Short term success generates immediate votes. b) They simply might not be in power long enough to see a long-term plan through. I think that there is definitely room for cross party agreement on specific issues so that we can develop and deliver long term plans. There must be SOME concensus on key issues? However, politics is so tribal that it will never happen. Instead we will just keep spinning around in this cycle of short-termism. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 5, 2023 19:03:11 GMT
I don’t actually think brexit has caused more immigration here. But the lie from the leave campaign was it would help us control our borders. The opposite is seemingly the case. I see immigration as generally good or neutral. The negative is our government’s failure to improve public services, or in the instance we are talking about, increase numbers of housing available which causes the problems. Do you disagree with my suggestions as to how to help with the housing demand? The housing developer lobby has funded the tories for years so the tories have never wanted to address the supply issue. Thank you for your clarification on immigration. We do have controls on legal immigration. Illegal immigration is another matter. Since leaving the EU and establishing stricter border controls , the illegal immigrants are coming in by dinghy rather than in the back of lorries. Who knows how many there were before Brexit? We were told that there were 3.5 million EU nationals disenfranchised by not being allowed to vote in the referendum. Since Brexit nearly 6 million former EU nationals have applied for citizenship and when they get it, their relatives are coming. I am in favour of immigration not neutral. We need immigrants to fill empty jobs and do essential work UK citizens don't want to do. The NHS has always been highly dependant on immigrant workers. I'm against freedom of movement and EU citizens coming in and displacing UK citizens from jobs they want to do. Germany is taking action to increase immigration due to over a million shortage of workers. I'm not sure about social housing. I have council housing near where I live and the repair/maintenance vans are always there! I wonder who is paying. Extravagant jobs like replacing all the roof tiles because they are covered in moss go on. If a future Labour government want to start building council houses that's democracy. Currently virtually all housing developments include affordable housing as a precondition of planning consent. That reduces the profits of developers who then recover their profit by charging far more for the better housing than it costs to build. Building could be faster if the planning approval process could be speeded up but we have to allow the the NIMBYs have their say. There are also stringent rules and conditions set by the Environment Agency. We are storing up a lot of potential problems in the future by building housing estates on flood plain. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7747/The number of houses being built has been rising since the 2008, apart from the pandemic period. It would be faster if there were more builders as well, the country is short of skilled craftsmen. So we need more immigrants! The aging UK native population is growing so we need more immigrants to help generate wealth and provide services. We also need more automation etc. In the past employers have not bothered to invest to improve productivity because it was easier to hire cheap labour. Now labour is more expensive and in short supply we can expect investment to boost productivity. www.forbes.com/sites/serenitygibbons/2023/02/02/2023-business-predictions-as-ai-and-automation-rise-in-popularity/The only way to get more housing currently is to let developers make big profits so they build more. Taking control with social housing by government would starve building worker resources even more than they already are. Mr Coke, you have changed my mine. Brexit has caused a jump in immigration as you rightly point out that EU nationals who want to live here or want to option for the future are securing their status while they can. A bit like Brits looking for Irish uncles for EU passports. We need more more homes, more laws to ensure multiple homeowners are letting and are being taxed on wealth, and much stricter rules to discourage air bnb etc which has ruined Cornwall and other nice places in the country. That would help the housing shortage. None of that seems to be on Sunak’s agenda. Not sure about Starmer. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 5, 2023 23:02:24 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 6, 2023 10:40:11 GMT
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 10:56:35 GMT
Thr Irish have had enough as well. Nice to see a nationalistic movement emerging in the emerald Isle.
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Post by Gawa on Oct 6, 2023 11:59:31 GMT
Thr Irish have had enough as well. Nice to see a nationalistic movement emerging in the emerald Isle. I prefer this take Culture and tradition is important in Ireland. If you can't speak the language then you clearly don't care about the culture. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 12:50:07 GMT
Thr Irish have had enough as well. Nice to see a nationalistic movement emerging in the emerald Isle. I prefer this take Culture and tradition is important in Ireland. If you can't speak the language then you clearly don't care about the culture. You posted that before mate. Before he gives it portions about Irish culture he should definitely learn to speak Irish I agree. That's not the point though, you can speak Irish and hate Ireland and someone can not speak Irish and love Ireland. I don't speak old Anglo Saxon but I'm still an English patriot. Seems a lot of Irish are fighting back now due to what's been happening to the UK for years has finally started to infest Eire. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 12:59:34 GMT
Thr Irish have had enough as well. Nice to see a nationalistic movement emerging in the emerald Isle. I prefer this take Culture and tradition is important in Ireland. If you can't speak the language then you clearly don't care about the culture. The guy will probably never learn Irish. He apparently cares so much about his country but not one bit about its National identity. Imagine this happening in Italy, Spain, France etc. Learning the language of the country he loves was apparently too much of an inconvenience for him. Odd that he is happy to learn the language of the historic oppressor of a Ireland. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 6, 2023 14:35:49 GMT
I prefer this take Culture and tradition is important in Ireland. If you can't speak the language then you clearly don't care about the culture. You posted that before mate. Before he gives it portions about Irish culture he should definitely learn to speak Irish I agree. That's not the point though, you can speak Irish and hate Ireland and someone can not speak Irish and love Ireland. I don't speak old Anglo Saxon but I'm still an English patriot. Seems a lot of Irish are fighting back now due to what's been happening to the UK for years has finally started to infest Eire. I did indeed but thought I'd get more likes here 😁 But at the same time I struggle to sympathise with someone who has lived here their whole life and not bothered to learn the language when those campaigning for the refugees actually try to integrate and learn about our culture. We have a youtuber called Black Paddy who's a black lad originally from Nigeria who's lived here for 14 years and he's brilliant and so funny too. The problems with housing run deeper than immigrants and refugees. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 15:14:51 GMT
You posted that before mate. Before he gives it portions about Irish culture he should definitely learn to speak Irish I agree. That's not the point though, you can speak Irish and hate Ireland and someone can not speak Irish and love Ireland. I don't speak old Anglo Saxon but I'm still an English patriot. Seems a lot of Irish are fighting back now due to what's been happening to the UK for years has finally started to infest Eire. I did indeed but thought I'd get more likes here 😁 But at the same time I struggle to sympathise with someone who has lived here their whole life and not bothered to learn the language when those campaigning for the refugees actually try to integrate and learn about our culture. We have a youtuber called Black Paddy who's a black lad originally from Nigeria who's lived here for 14 years and he's brilliant and so funny too. The problems with housing run deeper than immigrants and refugees. It was just one person mate it won't be reflective across the board 😂. Never heard of black paddy tbh but I'll check him out. I'm sure it does mate but migrants and refugees also contribute to the housing problems and what ordinary people don't like seeing is preferential treatment being given to immigrants or refugees and understandably so and anyone that can't understand or see that isn't a full bag of shopping. |
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Post by Davef on Oct 6, 2023 15:25:19 GMT
Varadker needs to get his own house in order before he criticises our slum. |
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 6, 2023 15:50:27 GMT
Varadker needs to get his own house in order before he criticises our slum. Apart from that he is just plain wrong. The UK is the second most influential countries in the world in repeated surveys by different organisations. ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-ranked-second-most-powerful-country-in-soft-power/UK higher education is the best in the world with Oxford consistently #1, and Cambridge now in the top 5. A quarter of all world leaders were educated in the UK. London is the world capital. www.worldsbestcities.com/rankings/worlds-best-cities/#:~:text=London,for%20the%20ninth%20straight%20year.&text=London%20still%20reigns%20over%20all,COVID%20lockdowns%20and%20economic%20devastation. Since leaving the EU , the UK's world influence has increased with loads of new trade/investment/cooperation agreements with scores of countries in addition to all the ones rolled over from EU membership.. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 16:10:41 GMT
Varadker needs to get his own house in order before he criticises our slum. Apart from that he is just plain wrong. The UK is the second most influential countries in the world in repeated surveys by different organisations. ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-ranked-second-most-powerful-country-in-soft-power/UK higher education is the best in the world with Oxford consistently #1, and Cambridge now in the top 5. A quarter of all world leaders were educated in the UK. London is the world capital. www.worldsbestcities.com/rankings/worlds-best-cities/#:~:text=London,for%20the%20ninth%20straight%20year.&text=London%20still%20reigns%20over%20all,COVID%20lockdowns%20and%20economic%20devastation. Since leaving the EU , the UK's world influence has increased with loads of new trade/investment/cooperation agreements with scores of countries in addition to all the ones rolled over from EU membership.. Regarding leaving the EU, give it another few years till we really see the true benefits. We can see them now, but with time they'll be immense. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 16:20:34 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 6, 2023 16:34:36 GMT
Apart from that he is just plain wrong. The UK is the second most influential countries in the world in repeated surveys by different organisations. ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-ranked-second-most-powerful-country-in-soft-power/UK higher education is the best in the world with Oxford consistently #1, and Cambridge now in the top 5. A quarter of all world leaders were educated in the UK. London is the world capital. www.worldsbestcities.com/rankings/worlds-best-cities/#:~:text=London,for%20the%20ninth%20straight%20year.&text=London%20still%20reigns%20over%20all,COVID%20lockdowns%20and%20economic%20devastation. Since leaving the EU , the UK's world influence has increased with loads of new trade/investment/cooperation agreements with scores of countries in addition to all the ones rolled over from EU membership.. Regarding leaving the EU, give it another few years till we really see the true benefits. We can see them now, but with time they'll be immense. Increasingly few people think that: www.whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?removedI suspect the opposite is likely to be the reality. It will take time, yes, but after, say, 15 years it will be much easier to establish what worked and what didn't and to make an assessment based on numerous years' worth of data, instead of less than three years currently. That said, very few people currently are saying it's been a success so far, with notable absentees on that front including Nigel Farage himself, who described it as "a failure", and almost all of the strident pro-Brexit voices struggling to find anything worth shouting from the rooftops. If those successes existed, I'm sure we'd be hearing about them regularly! |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 6, 2023 16:47:54 GMT
Just to revisit this, I notice that 74% of people think the Guardian website is accurate, compared with only 47% who think the Daily Mail is accurate. Vast difference 🤷🏻 |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 6, 2023 16:52:57 GMT
Just to revisit this, I notice that 74% of people think the Guardian website is accurate, compared with only 47% who think the Daily Mail is accurate. Vast difference 🤷🏻 Were you asked? I wasn’t and I’d be surprised anyone else on here was. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 6, 2023 16:55:36 GMT
Just to revisit this, I notice that 74% of people think the Guardian website is accurate, compared with only 47% who think the Daily Mail is accurate. Vast difference 🤷🏻 Were you asked? I wasn’t and I’d be surprised anyone else on here was. Don't think they ask everyone, Badge, that's not how polls work  |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 6, 2023 16:55:41 GMT
Just to revisit this, I notice that 74% of people think the Guardian website is accurate, compared with only 47% who think the Daily Mail is accurate. Vast difference 🤷🏻 Were you asked? I wasn’t and I’d be surprised anyone else on here was. As straw men go badge, it's not one of your better ones 😉 |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 6, 2023 16:57:54 GMT
Were you asked? I wasn’t and I’d be surprised anyone else on here was. Don't think they ask everyone, Badge, that's not how polls work It’s a load of old bollocks then, thanks for confirming 😉 |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 6, 2023 16:58:26 GMT
Were you asked? I wasn’t and I’d be surprised anyone else on here was. As straw men go badge, it's not one of your better ones 😉 If at first you don’t succeed etc….. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 17:14:07 GMT
Regarding leaving the EU, give it another few years till we really see the true benefits. We can see them now, but with time they'll be immense. Increasingly few people think that: www.whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?removedI suspect the opposite is likely to be the reality. It will take time, yes, but after, say, 15 years it will be much easier to establish what worked and what didn't and to make an assessment based on numerous years' worth of data, instead of less than three years currently. That said, very few people currently are saying it's been a success so far, with notable absentees on that front including Nigel Farage himself, who described it as "a failure", and almost all of the strident pro-Brexit voices struggling to find anything worth shouting from the rooftops. If those successes existed, I'm sure we'd be hearing about them regularly! I don't believe or trust 'whatukthinks' mate and if I did (which I don't) I'd say they are wrong . We can see the benefits of Brexit and as time goes by we'll see them more clearly. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 6, 2023 17:17:10 GMT
Increasingly few people think that: www.whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?removedI suspect the opposite is likely to be the reality. It will take time, yes, but after, say, 15 years it will be much easier to establish what worked and what didn't and to make an assessment based on numerous years' worth of data, instead of less than three years currently. That said, very few people currently are saying it's been a success so far, with notable absentees on that front including Nigel Farage himself, who described it as "a failure", and almost all of the strident pro-Brexit voices struggling to find anything worth shouting from the rooftops. If those successes existed, I'm sure we'd be hearing about them regularly! We can see the benefits of Brexit Which ones are you thinking of mate? |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 17:19:21 GMT
We can see the benefits of Brexit Which ones are you thinking of mate? All the ones that Mr Coke has mentioned mate. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 6, 2023 17:20:55 GMT
Which ones are you thinking of mate? All the ones that Mr Coke has mentioned mate. To save me having to go through his posting history, what are the top 5 ones that stand out for you? |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 17:21:40 GMT
All the ones that Mr Coke has mentioned mate. To save me having to go through his posting history, what are the top 5 ones that stand out for you? To save me from going through them mate, go through them yourself. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 6, 2023 17:23:45 GMT
To save me having to go through his posting history, what are the top 5 ones that stand out for you? To save me from going through them mate, go through them yourself. Why do you need to go through them, don't you know what they are? |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 6, 2023 17:25:23 GMT
To save me from going through them mate, go through them yourself. Why do you need to go through them, don't you know what they are?  slight pause while he re-reads MrCoke's post... |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 6, 2023 17:27:40 GMT
To save me from going through them mate, go through them yourself. Why do you need to go through them, don't you know what they are? You quoted me though mate, you engaged with me and asked me a question so surely it's your job to go through mrcokes posts. I know you know what they are and I know you just want me to say it but I don't play lefty games. |
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slight pause while he re-reads MrCoke's post...
