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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 2, 2020 15:23:35 GMT
I don't think so Partick on either score. Abolition of the House of Lords was in the 2015 UKIP manifesto....or at least played a part on the campaign. Irrespective of your view of Farage, those who seem to ssy that they are in favour of Abolition as a policy are in agreement with him. Its easy to call anyone a twat , but not very useful. I agree - I have a visceral dislike of the man. Not unrelated to that appalling infamous Breaking Point poster he stood in front off. That, imo, was shameful. And thoroughly meriting my description of him as a twat. As to UKIP’s 2015 manifesto, that was in response to him not getting what he thought was UKIP’s fair share of peers prior to that date. So a distinct whiff of sour grapes back in 2015. The poster may have been a mistake.......but his message about immigration and the pressure on the infrastructure is, in my opinion, valid....seems like it is one of thise issues that we don't see ( like the EU) and therefore don't talk about. Like it or not the poster got pekple talking , illegal immigrantion has been going on at least since 2000( obviously much longer) As we speak I am in Kent and just listening to a local , telling me that the coastguard pick up ( and store) many abandoned dinghies weekly... a constant flow....perhaps the poster was necessary. It's easy to try to get the man..On the policy..I happen to believe that Farage believes what he says about the H of L and , when the facts of the cost and its lack of democracy, many people agree with him....but , again a bit like the EU, one of those things that " we" just live with but should be concerned about.....in the context of this little sub- debate, Farage is the one holding the government to account.....and , in my opinion, many people ARE concerned about the level of illegal immigration, asylum seeking and the impact upon the country...and I think it is the issue that is more likely in the medium term to turn the public away from the Tories than...the attack on Cummings, the handling of the virus and the portrayal of Boris as a bufoon.....just like Farage has affected the fortunes of the Tories mire than Labour have in the last six years. His policies are more in line with the public irrespective of whether you think him a twat.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2020 15:29:26 GMT
I agree - I have a visceral dislike of the man. Not unrelated to that appalling infamous Breaking Point poster he stood in front off. That, imo, was shameful. And thoroughly meriting my description of him as a twat. As to UKIP’s 2015 manifesto, that was in response to him not getting what he thought was UKIP’s fair share of peers prior to that date. So a distinct whiff of sour grapes back in 2015. The poster may have been a mistake.......but his message about immigration and the pressure on the infrastructure is, in my opinion, valid....seems like it is one of thise issues that we don't see ( like the EU) and therefore don't talk about. Like it or not the poster got pekple talking , illegal immigrantion has been going on at least since 2000( obviously much longer) As we speak I am in Kent and just listening to a local , telling me that the coastguard pick up ( and store) many abandoned dinghies weekly... a constant flow....perhaps the poster was necessary. It's easy to try to get the man..On the policy..I happen to believe that Farage believes what he says about the H of L and , when the facts of the cost and its lack of democracy, many people agree with him....but , again a bit like the EU, one of those things that " we" just live with but should be concerned about.....in the context of this little sub- debate, Farage is the one holding the government to account.....and , in my opinion, many people ARE concerned about the level of illegal immigration, asylum seeking and the impact upon the country...and I think it is the issue that is more likely in the medium term to turn the public away from the Tories than...the attack on Cummings, the handling of the virus and the portrayal of Boris as a bufoon.....just like Farage has affected the fortunes of the Tories mire than Labour have in the last six years. His policies are more in line with the public irrespective of whether you think him a twat. We’ll have to agree to disagree about Mr Farage. That’s cool! As to immigration, there is no doubt there are some problems in some places. But... not everywhere. Farage deliberately constructed a narrative that exaggerated and distorted the scale and nature of the “problem”. That poster epitomised the message he wanted to get out. It wasn’t a mistake. It was horrible though.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 2, 2020 15:58:40 GMT
The poster may have been a mistake.......but his message about immigration and the pressure on the infrastructure is, in my opinion, valid....seems like it is one of thise issues that we don't see ( like the EU) and therefore don't talk about. Like it or not the poster got pekple talking , illegal immigrantion has been going on at least since 2000( obviously much longer) As we speak I am in Kent and just listening to a local , telling me that the coastguard pick up ( and store) many abandoned dinghies weekly... a constant flow....perhaps the poster was necessary. It's easy to try to get the man..On the policy..I happen to believe that Farage believes what he says about the H of L and , when the facts of the cost and its lack of democracy, many people agree with him....but , again a bit like the EU, one of those things that " we" just live with but should be concerned about.....in the context of this little sub- debate, Farage is the one holding the government to account.....and , in my opinion, many people ARE concerned about the level of illegal immigration, asylum seeking and the impact upon the country...and I think it is the issue that is more likely in the medium term to turn the public away from the Tories than...the attack on Cummings, the handling of the virus and the portrayal of Boris as a bufoon.....just like Farage has affected the fortunes of the Tories mire than Labour have in the last six years. His policies are more in line with the public irrespective of whether you think him a twat. We’ll have to agree to disagree about Mr Farage. That’s cool! As to immigration, there is no doubt there are some problems in some places. But... not everywhere. Farage deliberately constructed a narrative that exaggerated and distorted the scale and nature of the “problem”. That poster epitomised the message he wanted to get out. It wasn’t a mistake. It was horrible though. Illegal immigration is simply wrong. We don't know the full implications across the whole country as yet. People are concerned about it. On reflection, Farage made a decision about the poster....as it is similar to one used by the Nazis I think it was wrong.....but he used it to illustrate a point...perhaps he achieved that. Unfortunately, if "we" voted based upon the character ( and some of the actions/ hypocrisy...eg the current sexual allegations of the Tory party) of some of the members any/ most political parties we should/ would never vote . In my opinion, as some one who , and whose family, have been under tremendous scrutiny, and nedia abuse , Farage can hold his head high alongside any politician.
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 2, 2020 17:45:08 GMT
Conservative MP not suspended after arrest on suspicion of rape link
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 2, 2020 17:56:08 GMT
Conservative MP not suspended after arrest on suspicion of rape linkAre you for real If the mp is not named by the police how can they remove the whip without his name becoming public The time to remove the whip is if and when he is actually charged by the police Which I suggest will be done immediately he's charged
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 2, 2020 18:31:50 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 2, 2020 18:48:54 GMT
Conservative MP not suspended after arrest on suspicion of rape linkAre you for real If the mp is not named by the police how can they remove the whip without his name becoming public The time to remove the whip is if and when he is actually charged by the police Which I suggest will be done immediately he's charged thats easy they can say the whip has been removed confirm that to the opposition of the mp but not release the name or that he is sitting as an independent
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Post by Gods on Aug 2, 2020 22:16:08 GMT
Conservative MP not suspended after arrest on suspicion of rape linkAre you for real If the mp is not named by the police how can they remove the whip without his name becoming public The time to remove the whip is if and when he is actually charged by the police Which I suggest will be done immediately he's charged I think the MP has not been named since if he or she is named the identity of the young female complainant will effectively be known. It can't be massively hard to work out. Former Minister, in 50's, now on back benches, arrested in East London, must be the shortest of short lists.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 3, 2020 6:45:00 GMT
Seems like one 50 something, shit spouting, foaming at the mouth Brexiteer and former Tory minister is trending on Twitter.....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 3, 2020 6:57:02 GMT
Are you for real If the mp is not named by the police how can they remove the whip without his name becoming public The time to remove the whip is if and when he is actually charged by the police Which I suggest will be done immediately he's charged I think the MP has not been named since if he or she is named the identity of the young female complainant will effectively be known. It can't be massively hard to work out. Former Minister, in 50's, now on back benches, arrested in East London, must be the shortest of short lists. I agree about protecting the anonymity of the victim but there are some questionable double standards at work here. If this person was a teacher, their regulatory code would suspend them: "If a teacher has been bailed without charge it may be assumed that there is a reasonable suspicion that they have been involved in the commission of an offence, although the evidential threshold is lower than that required by the CPS for criminal charges to be brought. Although not an exhaustive list, when balanced with the other necessary considerations, the following is likely to indicate that the imposition of an IPO [suspension] is necessary in the public interest: • information that the teacher is under investigation by the police, or has been charged, in connection with a serious offence, particularly of a sexual nature and/or involving children" It goes on, but that's the relevant part of where this Tory MP currently is. Yet another example of different rules for them....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 3, 2020 7:04:15 GMT
Seems like one 50 something, shit spouting, foaming at the mouth Brexiteer and former Tory minister is trending on Twitter..... I'm not going to get involved in speculation and nor should anyone else. What is interesting is how little time some of the folk who've spent page after page demonising the McCanns with undisguised glee have spent speculating wildly on this story. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they've learnt a lesson!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 3, 2020 7:09:04 GMT
I think the MP has not been named since if he or she is named the identity of the young female complainant will effectively be known. It can't be massively hard to work out. Former Minister, in 50's, now on back benches, arrested in East London, must be the shortest of short lists. I agree about protecting the anonymity of the victim but there are some questionable double standards at work here. If this person was a teacher, their regulatory code would suspend them: "If a teacher has been bailed without charge it may be assumed that there is a reasonable suspicion that they have been involved in the commission of an offence, although the evidential threshold is lower than that required by the CPS for criminal charges to be brought. Although not an exhaustive list, when balanced with the other necessary considerations, the following is likely to indicate that the imposition of an IPO [suspension] is necessary in the public interest: • information that the teacher is under investigation by the police, or has been charged, in connection with a serious offence, particularly of a sexual nature and/or involving children" It goes on, but that's the relevant part of where this Tory MP currently is. Yet another example of different rules for them.... A Tory MP had the whip removed from him two weeks ago for the temerity to be fairly elected as Head of the Security and Intelligence Committee and outflanking Jonhnson and Cummings yet they can't suspend the whip from this character. Tells you all you need to know about this scummy party.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 3, 2020 7:17:40 GMT
Seems like one 50 something, shit spouting, foaming at the mouth Brexiteer and former Tory minister is trending on Twitter..... Have a look at the pinned image at the top of his parody twitter account, Sheiky!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 3, 2020 7:22:11 GMT
Seems like one 50 something, shit spouting, foaming at the mouth Brexiteer and former Tory minister is trending on Twitter..... Have a look at the pinned image at the top of his parody twitter account, Sheiky! 😃
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 4, 2020 12:25:30 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 4, 2020 16:32:59 GMT
Reading a number of Oatcake threads today critical of our leaders , Trump, and other world leaders concealing Covid 19 facts, etc. , the thought struck me that at least we can remove our leaders. May was forced out before her time despite "winning " a GE, whereas try as they may the yanks can't get rid of Trump. The French are stuck with their President for 7 years, whereas the longest BJ can last is 5 years at most and it is possible to remove him by a HoC no confidence vote. The Russians, Chinese, Saudis, and many others are stuck with their leaders as long they want to stay there, including the EU bureaucrats. What's more they pick their successors.
If popular opinion turns against BJ, and there is a strong chance of the Tories losing the next GE, you can bet the party will get rid of him before the election, and install a more popular politician who has a "clean record".
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 5, 2020 0:10:30 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 5, 2020 7:49:25 GMT
If popular opinion turns against BJ, and there is a strong chance of the Tories losing the next GE, you can bet the party will get rid of him before the election, and install a more popular politician who has a "clean record". I suspect you're right, and the Bluffer has already started pissing a lot of his political capital up the wall. But you do have to take into account that he's subject to different 'rules' when compared to most politicians - having a record of privilege, lying, acting unlawfully, philandering, being sacked for lying, conviction-less opportunism and, to date, general incompetence doesn't seem to have damaged his standing (yet) as far as the electorate is concerned. But that says a great deal about the electorate and how far you can get with the press blowing smoke up your arse on a daily basis. Interesting, however, that even the normally reliably supine Daily Mail and Telegraph have questioned his ability in recent months. The Express is still blindingly loyal. With familiarity may come contempt over the next few years of his premiership - all that bluff and bluster may start to wear thin as the months and years pass by, especially once the impacts of Brexit play out for ordinary people. But my gut feeling is that he's like the UK's version of Ronald Reagan, someone with the gift of being able to get away with a lot more than most politicians simply because enough voters see him as a bit of a character and that's as far as their interest goes - but as I say that's an indictment of the electorate, more than anything.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 5, 2020 8:15:15 GMT
If popular opinion turns against BJ, and there is a strong chance of the Tories losing the next GE, you can bet the party will get rid of him before the election, and install a more popular politician who has a "clean record". I suspect you're right, and the Bluffer has already started pissing a lot of his political capital up the wall. But you do have to take into account that he's subject to different 'rules' when compared to most politicians - having a record of privilege, lying, acting unlawfully, philandering, being sacked for lying, conviction-less opportunism and, to date, general incompetence doesn't seem to have damaged his standing (yet) as far as the electorate is concerned. But that says a great deal about the electorate and how far you can get with the press blowing smoke up your arse on a daily basis. Interesting, however, that even the normally reliably supine Daily Mail and Telegraph have questioned his ability in recent months. The Express is still blindingly loyal. With familiarity may come contempt over the next few years of his premiership - all that bluff and bluster may start to wear thin as the months and years pass by, especially once the impacts of Brexit play out for ordinary people. But my gut feeling is that he's like the UK's version of Ronald Reagan, someone with the gift of being able to get away with a lot more than most politicians simply because enough voters see him as a bit of a character and that's as far as their interest goes - but as I say that's an indictment of the electorate, more than anything. It may be that the populace is already starting to get its act together with regard to Johnson and his chums. #threepointfive% (and variations thereof) has been trending on Twitter over the past few days - the number referring to the fraction of the population which would need to take to the streetsto challenge the government. in Britain this would be about 2.5 million people. Then again, Twitter trends tend to disappear as quickly as they appear. 🤔 Where the 3.5% figure comes from.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 5, 2020 8:53:43 GMT
If popular opinion turns against BJ, and there is a strong chance of the Tories losing the next GE, you can bet the party will get rid of him before the election, and install a more popular politician who has a "clean record". I suspect you're right, and the Bluffer has already started pissing a lot of his political capital up the wall. But you do have to take into account that he's subject to different 'rules' when compared to most politicians - having a record of privilege, lying, acting unlawfully, philandering, being sacked for lying, conviction-less opportunism and, to date, general incompetence doesn't seem to have damaged his standing (yet) as far as the electorate is concerned. But that says a great deal about the electorate and how far you can get with the press blowing smoke up your arse on a daily basis. Interesting, however, that even the normally reliably supine Daily Mail and Telegraph have questioned his ability in recent months. The Express is still blindingly loyal. With familiarity may come contempt over the next few years of his premiership - all that bluff and bluster may start to wear thin as the months and years pass by, especially once the impacts of Brexit play out for ordinary people. But my gut feeling is that he's like the UK's version of Ronald Reagan, someone with the gift of being able to get away with a lot more than most politicians simply because enough voters see him as a bit of a character and that's as far as their interest goes - but as I say that's an indictment of the electorate, more than anything. The only similarity between BJ and Reagan in my view is that both were voted in with a large vote/majority. After that similarity ends. Everything BJ touches seems to become a mess, whereas Reagan was a very successful president, who academics have given a top quartile rating compared with other presidents. The only president to get such a high rating since Eisenhower. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_StatesReagan's sustained popularity was in part due to getting shot! Thereby getting sympathy support. (Maybe BJ should consider that?!) I remember him for his economic success. He held strong views on taxation and proved that by cutting taxes it leads to boosting the economy and more tax revenue, less tax evasion and avoidance, thereby actually boosting the budget. BJ will achieve his goal of going down in history as the PM who lead the country out of Europe, just like Heath is remembered as the PM who lead us in. But like Heath everything else about his tenure will be remembered as pretty disastrous.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 5, 2020 9:12:36 GMT
I suspect you're right, and the Bluffer has already started pissing a lot of his political capital up the wall. But you do have to take into account that he's subject to different 'rules' when compared to most politicians - having a record of privilege, lying, acting unlawfully, philandering, being sacked for lying, conviction-less opportunism and, to date, general incompetence doesn't seem to have damaged his standing (yet) as far as the electorate is concerned. But that says a great deal about the electorate and how far you can get with the press blowing smoke up your arse on a daily basis. Interesting, however, that even the normally reliably supine Daily Mail and Telegraph have questioned his ability in recent months. The Express is still blindingly loyal. With familiarity may come contempt over the next few years of his premiership - all that bluff and bluster may start to wear thin as the months and years pass by, especially once the impacts of Brexit play out for ordinary people. But my gut feeling is that he's like the UK's version of Ronald Reagan, someone with the gift of being able to get away with a lot more than most politicians simply because enough voters see him as a bit of a character and that's as far as their interest goes - but as I say that's an indictment of the electorate, more than anything. The only similarity between BJ and Reagan in my view is that both were voted in with a large vote/majority. After that similarity ends. Everything BJ touches seems to become a mess, whereas Reagan was a very successful president, who academics have given a top quartile rating compared with other presidents. The only president to get such a high rating since Eisenhower. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_StatesReagan's sustained popularity was in part due to getting shot! Thereby getting sympathy support. (Maybe BJ should consider that?!) I remember him for his economic success. He held strong views on taxation and proved that by cutting taxes it leads to boosting the economy and more tax revenue, less tax evasion and avoidance, thereby actually boosting the budget. BJ will achieve his goal of going down in history as the PM who lead the country out of Europe, just like Heath is remembered as the PM who lead us in. But like Heath everything else about his tenure will be remembered as pretty disastrous. That's always assuming the exit from europe is deemed a success. I voted remain but I can accept there are arguements for leaving providing it s managed carefully and competently. I'm not sure this lot could competently manage jam making competition without building a venue we don't need, not ordering enough jam jars, giving an uncontested £50m contract to Serco to judge it, rigging the vote and still managing to find someone won it who they didn't want who they then chuck out of the WI in a fit of pique. I'm therefore have little confidence our departure will be anything other than another BJ shitshow.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 5, 2020 9:49:24 GMT
The only similarity between BJ and Reagan in my view is that both were voted in with a large vote/majority. After that similarity ends. Everything BJ touches seems to become a mess, whereas Reagan was a very successful president, who academics have given a top quartile rating compared with other presidents. The only president to get such a high rating since Eisenhower. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_StatesReagan's sustained popularity was in part due to getting shot! Thereby getting sympathy support. (Maybe BJ should consider that?!) I remember him for his economic success. He held strong views on taxation and proved that by cutting taxes it leads to boosting the economy and more tax revenue, less tax evasion and avoidance, thereby actually boosting the budget. BJ will achieve his goal of going down in history as the PM who lead the country out of Europe, just like Heath is remembered as the PM who lead us in. But like Heath everything else about his tenure will be remembered as pretty disastrous. That's always assuming the exit from europe is deemed a success. I voted remain but I can accept there are arguements for leaving providing it s managed carefully and competently. I'm not sure this lot could competently manage jam making competition without building a venue we don't need, not ordering enough jam jars, giving an uncontested £50m contract to Serco to judge it, rigging the vote and still managing to find someone won it who they didn't want who they then chuck out of the WI in a fit of pique. I'm therefore have little confidence our departure will be anything other than another BJ shitshow. Some of us already consider leaving a success. Like most countries in the world, we are now free to make our own laws, and not be trapped into ever closer union, funding a corrupt organization, and having a massive trade deficit, watching our industries go into decline, while the continental countries protect theirs by flouting EU laws. As for the economy, which is what I suspect you are referring to, that is what we chose to make of it as a nation. Again, just like most countries in the world. I expect it will take a generation to take the full benefits of being free to trade with the RoW without EU restrictions. It will be a long haul, but, as the EU themselves have stated, 95% of future world growth will be outside of the EU, which where we are best placed. It will be all the more difficult because the EU will try their best to inhibit us and try and exert control, but I have faith in the talents* of our nation. (Johnson will be a distant memory when the fruits of leaving the EU are harvested in full.) *Talents which I believe are enriched by immigration, something I disagree with Farage on. I actually have huge admiration for those who leave their homeland, give up their wealth, if any, any get in a rubber dinghy to cross the Channel and start a new life. Just as immigration built the most successful economy the world has ever seen.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 5, 2020 10:20:00 GMT
That's always assuming the exit from europe is deemed a success. I voted remain but I can accept there are arguements for leaving providing it s managed carefully and competently. I'm not sure this lot could competently manage jam making competition without building a venue we don't need, not ordering enough jam jars, giving an uncontested £50m contract to Serco to judge it, rigging the vote and still managing to find someone won it who they didn't want who they then chuck out of the WI in a fit of pique. I'm therefore have little confidence our departure will be anything other than another BJ shitshow. Some of us already consider leaving a success. Like most countries in the world, we are now free to make our own laws, and not be trapped into ever closer union, funding a corrupt organization, and having a massive trade deficit, watching our industries go into decline, while the continental countries protect theirs by flouting EU laws. As for the economy, which is what I suspect you are referring to, that is what we chose to make of it as a nation. Again, just like most countries in the world. I expect it will take a generation to take the full benefits of being free to trade with the RoW without EU restrictions. It will be a long haul, but, as the EU themselves have stated, 95% of future world growth will be outside of the EU, which where we are best placed. It will be all the more difficult because the EU will try their best to inhibit us and try and exert control, but I have faith in the talents* of our nation. (Johnson will be a distant memory when the fruits of leaving the EU are harvested in full.) *Talents which I believe are enriched by immigration, something I disagree with Farage on. I actually have huge admiration for those who leave their homeland, give up their wealth, if any, any get in a rubber dinghy to cross the Channel and start a new life. Just as immigration built the most successful economy the world has ever seen. I would agree with most of that Mr Coke. I've said previously that I do not blame those wanting to get into the country for doing so. As you say in many cases they are desperate and for all I know good people simply hoping for a better life, Im sure most are.....BUT What is wrong is the way that they have been coming into the country for many years. In my opinion , we cannot have a system that says that anyone can come in, as long as they can make their own way. For me it puts their lives at risk , encourages criminal traffickers, escalates a never ending situation, encouraging others ,making it worse...and we do not really know the medium/ long term intention of those coming in. I'm all for controlled immigration....but for me one major issue is the implications ( consideration should be given to that)on the ( current) indigenous culture, and pressure on the infrastructure. Compared to say France, I think that we are overcrowded and are currently facing enough issues.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 5, 2020 10:41:42 GMT
That's always assuming the exit from europe is deemed a success. I voted remain but I can accept there are arguements for leaving providing it s managed carefully and competently. I'm not sure this lot could competently manage jam making competition without building a venue we don't need, not ordering enough jam jars, giving an uncontested £50m contract to Serco to judge it, rigging the vote and still managing to find someone won it who they didn't want who they then chuck out of the WI in a fit of pique. I'm therefore have little confidence our departure will be anything other than another BJ shitshow. Some of us already consider leaving a success. Like most countries in the world, we are now free to make our own laws, and not be trapped into ever closer union, funding a corrupt organization, and having a massive trade deficit, watching our industries go into decline, while the continental countries protect theirs by flouting EU laws. As for the economy, which is what I suspect you are referring to, that is what we chose to make of it as a nation. Again, just like most countries in the world. I expect it will take a generation to take the full benefits of being free to trade with the RoW without EU restrictions. It will be a long haul, but, as the EU themselves have stated, 95% of future world growth will be outside of the EU, which where we are best placed. It will be all the more difficult because the EU will try their best to inhibit us and try and exert control, but I have faith in the talents* of our nation. (Johnson will be a distant memory when the fruits of leaving the EU are harvested in full.) *Talents which I believe are enriched by immigration, something I disagree with Farage on. I actually have huge admiration for those who leave their homeland, give up their wealth, if any, any get in a rubber dinghy to cross the Channel and start a new life. Just as immigration built the most successful economy the world has ever seen. I'm not getting into (yet) another debate on the merits or demerits of Brexit. No-one on here's going to change their mind. My point related to this governments ability to execute anything competently - and I'm still waiting for evidence that they can. It could be a long wait. I would take you up on one point though - before we accuse anyone else of corruption we should be taking a long hard look at ourselves. Overseas donors, uncompetitive contract awards and the honours system - particularly peerages - are all corrupt practices. You can also take a look at the finances of the sainted Farage's Brexit party and ask 'where's the money gone'?
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 5, 2020 11:04:49 GMT
Some of us already consider leaving a success. Like most countries in the world, we are now free to make our own laws, and not be trapped into ever closer union, funding a corrupt organization, and having a massive trade deficit, watching our industries go into decline, while the continental countries protect theirs by flouting EU laws. As for the economy, which is what I suspect you are referring to, that is what we chose to make of it as a nation. Again, just like most countries in the world. I expect it will take a generation to take the full benefits of being free to trade with the RoW without EU restrictions. It will be a long haul, but, as the EU themselves have stated, 95% of future world growth will be outside of the EU, which where we are best placed. It will be all the more difficult because the EU will try their best to inhibit us and try and exert control, but I have faith in the talents* of our nation. (Johnson will be a distant memory when the fruits of leaving the EU are harvested in full.) *Talents which I believe are enriched by immigration, something I disagree with Farage on. I actually have huge admiration for those who leave their homeland, give up their wealth, if any, any get in a rubber dinghy to cross the Channel and start a new life. Just as immigration built the most successful economy the world has ever seen. I would agree with most of that Mr Coke. I've said previously that I do not blame those wanting to get into the country for doing so. As you say in many cases they are desperate and for all I know good people simply hoping for a better life, Im sure most are.....BUT What is wrong is the way that they have been coming into the country for many years. In my opinion , we cannot have a system that says that anyone can come in, as long as they can make their own way. For me it puts their lives at risk , encourages criminal traffickers, escalates a never ending situation, encouraging others ,making it worse...and we do not really know the medium/ long term intention of those coming in. I'm all for controlled immigration....but for me one major issue is the implications ( consideration should be given to that)on the ( current) indigenous culture, and pressure on the infrastructure. Compared to say France, I think that we are overcrowded and are currently facing enough issues. I too don't condone illegal immigration, I just admire the boat people's bravery and determination. I feel uneasy on the Isle of Wight ferry! The numbers are a tiny trickle compared with legal immigration. I know that doesn't make it right. I agree the country is overcrowded in some parts, which is one of the reasons we chose to retire to rural North Yorkshire, which may be the largest county but only has one motorway with people dashing North and South along it, and only stopping at service stations. Where would we be without immigration? Pre-pandemic we had record employment, and the lowest unemployment for 40 years due to the economy, which is what funds the infra-structure. Two thirds of immigrants come to this country with a job offer, presumably their new employer needs them. IMO immigration feeds the virtuous circle, of more demand, more investment, more jobs, etc. Culture, like the English language, is bound to change and evolve. We would not want to go back to Tudor religious intolerance, or Victorian times. It's just uncomfortable for oldies like me to see a society that I am no longer familiar with.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 5, 2020 14:16:56 GMT
I would agree with most of that Mr Coke. I've said previously that I do not blame those wanting to get into the country for doing so. As you say in many cases they are desperate and for all I know good people simply hoping for a better life, Im sure most are.....BUT What is wrong is the way that they have been coming into the country for many years. In my opinion , we cannot have a system that says that anyone can come in, as long as they can make their own way. For me it puts their lives at risk , encourages criminal traffickers, escalates a never ending situation, encouraging others ,making it worse...and we do not really know the medium/ long term intention of those coming in. I'm all for controlled immigration....but for me one major issue is the implications ( consideration should be given to that)on the ( current) indigenous culture, and pressure on the infrastructure. Compared to say France, I think that we are overcrowded and are currently facing enough issues. I too don't condone illegal immigration, I just admire the boat people's bravery and determination. I feel uneasy on the Isle of Wight ferry! The numbers are a tiny trickle compared with legal immigration. I know that doesn't make it right. I agree the country is overcrowded in some parts, which is one of the reasons we chose to retire to rural North Yorkshire, which may be the largest county but only has one motorway with people dashing North and South along it, and only stopping at service stations. Where would we be without immigration? Pre-pandemic we had record employment, and the lowest unemployment for 40 years due to the economy, which is what funds the infra-structure. Two thirds of immigrants come to this country with a job offer, presumably their new employer needs them. IMO immigration feeds the virtuous circle, of more demand, more investment, more jobs, etc. Culture, like the English language, is bound to change and evolve. We would not want to go back to Tudor religious intolerance, or Victorian times. It's just uncomfortable for oldies like me to see a society that I am no longer familiar with. I agree that culture changes, but perhaps we can play a part in shaping it. The nu.bers may be a tiny trickle, but we really don't know....and if we just allow it to continue then when dies it become a problem. I am in Kent as we speak and listening to some locals many abandoned dinghies are found and stored by the RNLI...and there are other routes in. Unless we take a ton, letting it happen encourages more. As I say I'm not against immigration per se, but we do need yo know and control what is going on. For me population growth is a major issue, both global and UK. I believe that the UK population has grown from 11m in 1800 to 66m now. It has also coincided with the industrial revolution, carbon consumption and global warming ( as of courseI know you know)... I just think we should protect our culture and safety as far as possible, in as many ways as possible. And I don't blame immigrants for all our problems, far from it.
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 5, 2020 16:24:51 GMT
Spitting Image puppet unveiled ahead of relaunch think there being kind
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 5, 2020 19:55:15 GMT
Spitting Image puppet unveiled ahead of relaunch think there being kind This is unquestionably the first useful thing you’ve ever posted. Welcome back Spitting Image!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 5, 2020 22:09:21 GMT
And one of The Prime Minister
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 5, 2020 23:31:26 GMT
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