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Post by thevoid on Apr 12, 2023 9:23:13 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? I'm sure the majority of decent trans folk are decent people. Of course, they aren't to be confused by the extreme trans lobby, many of whom probably aren't even trans themselves but are affiliated to radical left wing groups such as Antifa.
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Post by lordb on Apr 12, 2023 9:41:39 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? I'm sure the majority of decent trans folk are decent people. Of course, they aren't to be confused by the extreme trans lobby, many of whom probably aren't even trans themselves but are affiliated to radical left wing groups such as Antifa. In England? Really?
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Post by yeswilko on Apr 12, 2023 9:53:42 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? There's a female to male trans member of bar staff at a pub I go to that I've spoken to quite a bit (he's suffered terribly with depression and anxiety). To be honest at first I wasn't sure if they were lesbian or trans which can be slightly awkward in knowing whether to call them mate or whatever when you dont know their name. Not much of a problem in Stoke if you just call everyone duck though!
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Post by Billy the kid on Apr 12, 2023 9:56:03 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? I'm sure the majority of decent trans folk are decent people. Of course, they aren't to be confused by the extreme trans lobby, many of whom probably aren't even trans themselves but are affiliated to radical left wing groups such as Antifa. My adult child is, and on the whole they are happy now that they have coenzyme out to myself, but won't come out out public because they are disgusted with the behaviour of the extreme in your face types.
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Post by prettything on Apr 12, 2023 10:00:45 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? There's a female to male trans member of bar staff at a pub I go to that I've spoken to quite a bit (he's suffered terribly with depression and anxiety). To be honest at first I wasn't sure if they were lesbian or trans which can be slightly awkward in knowing whether to call them mate or whatever when you dont know their name. Not much of a problem in Stoke if you just call everyone duck though! Depression and anxiety is a common theme. Transgender people have a way above average suicide rate compared to the rest of the population. It comes mostly from the lack of society’s acceptance and their place within it. That’s why it doesn’t help when ignorant knob heads either make fun, call out the tiny militant minority, or have strong views on an issue they can’t possibly empathise or know anything about. Reminds me very much of how society treated homosexuality years ago.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 12, 2023 10:08:07 GMT
With respect Gawa you need to do a bit more research on the subject and when you have maybe you could educate your Aunty and your Disabled neighbour. The Golliwogg "Character" first appeared in a Book by Florence Kate Upton. The Golliwog Character in the Book was a grotesque caricature. Latterly from the 1940s as more Immigrants came to UK it was foreshortened to Wog and used as a Racist Slur indiscriminately against anyone who wasn't white Eventually Robinson's dropped the caricature from its Jam advertising under intense pressure Infamously during a recording of the One Show in 2009 Carol Thatcher exploded a series of Wog related tirades against the French Tennis Player Jo Wilfried Tsonga for some inexplicable reason The show was never aired nor did Carol ever appear again You might also want to reflect on your own decision to "Blackface" It's origins date back almost 200 years and to the "Minstrel Shows" where White Actors would don tattered clothing to mimic enslaved Africans on Southern Plantations and parody them as lazy, ignorent, criminal, cowardly and hypersexual. It was intended and was funny to White Audiences but it wasn't then nor now funny to Black people. One of the most successful Actors of the time was a chap called Thomas Dartmouth Rice who ran a travelling Minstrel Show with his character "Jim Crow". Jim Crow Laws were laws enacted in the Southern States to enforce Racial Segregation and is in itself a Pejorative Term for a Black American. The Jim Crow Laws weren't repealed until the 1960s To their eternal shame the BBC ran a very successful, among white people, Prime Time "Variety Show" on Sunday Nights called The Black and White Minstrels for 20 years between 1958/1978 It is credited with reinforcing Racial Prejudice and Stereotyping in UK I personally don't accept the theory it was of its time. There was clear intent to reduce Black people to ridicule and portray as sub human The black face wasn't exactly my idea mate. It was the boys brigade which asked me to do it lol because back then, particularly in less diverse Northern Ireland, it wasn't known to be this super offensive thing. Sure how many TV sketches had it too. As well as the other way round in movies like white chicks too. Again not something I'd do today but back then we didn't know better and it wasn't done to laugh or mock black people. It was just like if we did a Queen thing and someone dressed as Freddie Mercury. Also it was just a bit of fake tan.. Not sure if that makes it better or worse lol. But like I said, we didn't know better and it's not something I'd do today. And again with the golliwogs I understand the issues today and that it may offend some which is why I'd never buy one.. Well along with the fact I don't play with dolls haha. But I think it's stuff like this which cane sometimes drive people the wrong direction and make divides. And I'm not saying shops should start selling golliwogs. I just mean that I think most kids when they received them didn't know better and it was just a doll to them. I've probably slightly dug myself in a hole here. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everything which is intereperted by some as racist is intended to be racist and alot of it is just from ignorance and not knowing better. I wouldn't personally do those things today but I'm not going to judge people as racist based on being gifted a golliwog 50 years ago or for doing black face in the 90s. Because for many they didn't know it was racist (or at least in my instance I was unaware). I was quite conscious (due to your age and location) that you would not have been aware of how deeply offensive what these symbols represented. I accept to many due to ignorence not understood but to a large cohort a representation of Racism If you had lived in England inthe 60s/70s/80s/90s you could not have failed to understand the Raicial Tensions being deliberately stirred for a wider agenda It didn't necessarily begin with Powells "Rivers of Blood" speech in 1968 but it gave voice and organisation to a latent Racism which became a Movement. Powell was not merely a Racist but a populist neoliberal and although he was outwardly shunned by fellow Conservative Politicians his ideas were adopted in one form or another by Thatcher through to Farage and the Brexit Gang to today's inheritors Braverman and Patel. I wonder what he would think of that. Much of his thinking was early anti workery and indeed anti worker of today This Article traces the History and weaves how it has shaped and continues to shape today's Society www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/enoch-powell-racism-neoliberalism-right-wing-populism-rivers-of-bloodThis brilliant Article by David Olusoga perfectly humanises why Golliwogs and Minstrels were far from benign and innocent from a Black perspective growing up in that period To thousands of younger black and mixed-race Britons who, thankfully, cannot remember those decades, the racism of the 1970s and 1980s and the insecurities it bred in the minds of black people are difficult to imagine or relate to. But they are powerful memories for my generation. I was eight years old when the BBC finally cancelled The Black and White Minstrel Show. I have memories of my mother rushing across our living room to change television channels (in the days before remote controls) to avoid her mixed-race children being confronted by grotesque caricatures of themselves on prime-time television. I was 17 when the last of the touring blackface minstrel shows finally disappeared, having clung on for a decade performing in fading ballrooms on the decaying piers of Britain’s seaside towns. I grew up in a Britain in which there were pictures of golliwogs on jam jars and golliwog dolls alongside the teddy bears in the toy shop windows. One of the worst moments of my unhappy schooling was when, during the run-up to a 1970s Christmas, we were allowed to bring in our favourite toys. The girl who innocently brought her golliwog doll into our classroom plunged me into a day of humiliation and pain that I still find painful to recall, decades later. When, in recent years, I have been assured that such dolls, and the words “golliwog” and “wog”, are in fact harmless and that opposition to them is a symptom of rampant political correctness, I recall another incident. It is difficult to regard a word as benign when it has been scrawled on to a note, wrapped around a brick and thrown through one’s living-room window in the dead of night, as happened to my family when I was 14. That scribbled note reiterated the demand that me and my siblings be sent “back”. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/30/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-britain-today
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 12, 2023 10:19:19 GMT
I wouldn't disagree, although given the amount of times the whole woke/trans nonsense is crowbarred into certain people's posts for little or no reason on various threads not just this one, you do have to wonder about their fixation on something so relatively trivial to their lives! It seems a rather unimportant and largely population-unaffecting distraction away from the stuff that actually will affect most people's lives, but I guess it's all about individuals' priorities and what matters to them! Seems to me (having read the last few pages), that it's a small group of usual suspects playing the part of the oatcake police and belittling others just because they deem a topic to be of little importance to them. It's quite simple really, if you don't find it of interest then don't reply to it, debate it, or repeatedly keep bringing it up. There are indeed more important things to discuss than fixating on one poster mentioning trans issues 3 pages back. I agree. Or perhaps those folk who wish to can dedicate a thread to all things trans/woke in the same way that the Covid thread exists, and then fill their boots to their hearts' contents. In much the same way that the Clown World thread serves a purpose in providing an outlet for those who want to trawl through sites on the internet and social media to get annoyed by, before posting it again on the Oatcake. A couple of examples of threads which most people seem to quite sensibly ignore. Although, to be fair, given that this thread is about how shit the current government is, it's also pertinent to discuss their tactics in pushing this area of woke/trans nonsense as a convenient means of distraction away from stuff that will actually impact on people's lives!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 12, 2023 10:25:04 GMT
Interesting responses thank you! I have to just for info really. It's good to see some positivity about it and that people can actually see the deep complexity around it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 12, 2023 10:29:52 GMT
The black face wasn't exactly my idea mate. It was the boys brigade which asked me to do it lol because back then, particularly in less diverse Northern Ireland, it wasn't known to be this super offensive thing. Sure how many TV sketches had it too. As well as the other way round in movies like white chicks too. Again not something I'd do today but back then we didn't know better and it wasn't done to laugh or mock black people. It was just like if we did a Queen thing and someone dressed as Freddie Mercury. Also it was just a bit of fake tan.. Not sure if that makes it better or worse lol. But like I said, we didn't know better and it's not something I'd do today. And again with the golliwogs I understand the issues today and that it may offend some which is why I'd never buy one.. Well along with the fact I don't play with dolls haha. But I think it's stuff like this which cane sometimes drive people the wrong direction and make divides. And I'm not saying shops should start selling golliwogs. I just mean that I think most kids when they received them didn't know better and it was just a doll to them. I've probably slightly dug myself in a hole here. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everything which is intereperted by some as racist is intended to be racist and alot of it is just from ignorance and not knowing better. I wouldn't personally do those things today but I'm not going to judge people as racist based on being gifted a golliwog 50 years ago or for doing black face in the 90s. Because for many they didn't know it was racist (or at least in my instance I was unaware). I was quite conscious (due to your age and location) that you would not have been aware of how deeply offensive what these symbols represented. I accept to many due to ignorence not understood but to a large cohort a representation of Racism If you had lived in England inthe 60s/70s/80s/90s you could not have failed to understand the Raicial Tensions being deliberately stirred for a wider agenda It didn't necessarily begin with Powells "Rivers of Blood" speech in 1968 but it gave voice and organisation to a latent Racism which became a Movement. Powell was not merely a Racist but a populist neoliberal and although he was outwardly shunned by fellow Conservative Politicians his ideas were adopted in one form or another by Thatcher through to Farage and the Brexit Gang to today's inheritors Braverman and Patel. I wonder what he would think of that. Much of his thinking was early anti workery and indeed anti worker of today This Article traces the History and weaves how it has shaped and continues to shape today's Society www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/enoch-powell-racism-neoliberalism-right-wing-populism-rivers-of-bloodThis brilliant Article by David Olusoga perfectly humanises why Golliwogs and Minstrels were far from benign and innocent from a Black perspective growing up in that period To thousands of younger black and mixed-race Britons who, thankfully, cannot remember those decades, the racism of the 1970s and 1980s and the insecurities it bred in the minds of black people are difficult to imagine or relate to. But they are powerful memories for my generation. I was eight years old when the BBC finally cancelled The Black and White Minstrel Show. I have memories of my mother rushing across our living room to change television channels (in the days before remote controls) to avoid her mixed-race children being confronted by grotesque caricatures of themselves on prime-time television. I was 17 when the last of the touring blackface minstrel shows finally disappeared, having clung on for a decade performing in fading ballrooms on the decaying piers of Britain’s seaside towns. I grew up in a Britain in which there were pictures of golliwogs on jam jars and golliwog dolls alongside the teddy bears in the toy shop windows. One of the worst moments of my unhappy schooling was when, during the run-up to a 1970s Christmas, we were allowed to bring in our favourite toys. The girl who innocently brought her golliwog doll into our classroom plunged me into a day of humiliation and pain that I still find painful to recall, decades later. When, in recent years, I have been assured that such dolls, and the words “golliwog” and “wog”, are in fact harmless and that opposition to them is a symptom of rampant political correctness, I recall another incident. It is difficult to regard a word as benign when it has been scrawled on to a note, wrapped around a brick and thrown through one’s living-room window in the dead of night, as happened to my family when I was 14. That scribbled note reiterated the demand that me and my siblings be sent “back”. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/30/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-britain-todayI wonder how many of those people 'agitating' for more respect and fairness for black people in the 60s and 70s were subjected/would be subject today to the same level of condemnation and disapproval as we're seeing about certain other issues currently? I suspect a rather large number, which will no doubt go unacknowledged or denied. Different times then, see.
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Post by questionable on Apr 12, 2023 10:39:14 GMT
I absolutely hate this government and counting the days for the GE so once and for all we’ll rid ourselves of these blood sucking parasites.
Yes I understand everything has gone up in price but somethings are an absolute piss take, for example I’ve just renewed my car tax, reminder letter says £530 but if by magic it’s now £580....
Small change in comparison to the millions they’ve filtered to their mates companies but Joe Public yet again hit directly in their pockets.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Apr 12, 2023 10:59:49 GMT
Interesting responses thank you! I have to just for info really. It's good to see some positivity about it and that people can actually see the deep complexity around it. I suppose I should have added more. He’s pre-op, but very much looks like a man with hairy arms and facial hair. Being trans isn’t something he hides from, but also not something he’s desperate to shout about in a look at me kind of way. He just gets on with life like the rest of us. As far as I know he hasn’t encountered anyone with a problem with him being trans but it probably helps that he’s a very likeable person. I very much agree with others on here who ask why folk worry about things that don’t affect them in the slightest, such as someone’s gender, skin colour, hair colour, or preference of red or brown on a bacon sandwich. However, there are plenty of the men to women trans folk who are desperate for attention, with simulated pregnancies and similar nonsense, who don’t help.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 11:02:25 GMT
I absolutely hate this government and counting the days for the GE so once and for all we’ll rid ourselves of these blood sucking parasites. Yes I understand everything has gone up in price but somethings are an absolute piss take, for example I’ve just renewed my car tax, reminder letter says £530 but if by magic it’s now £580.... Small change in comparison to the millions they’ve filtered to their mates companies but Joe Public yet again hit directly in their pockets. Can you not call and challenge that?
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Post by questionable on Apr 12, 2023 11:06:42 GMT
I absolutely hate this government and counting the days for the GE so once and for all we’ll rid ourselves of these blood sucking parasites. Yes I understand everything has gone up in price but somethings are an absolute piss take, for example I’ve just renewed my car tax, reminder letter says £530 but if by magic it’s now £580.... Small change in comparison to the millions they’ve filtered to their mates companies but Joe Public yet again hit directly in their pockets. Can you not call and challenge that? It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category.
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Post by gawa on Apr 12, 2023 11:23:43 GMT
Can you not call and challenge that? It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category. My car costs less than your tax did this year and I bought it 6 years ago. Would love to have a nicer car but these past 3 years I've just been scrimping to get a house deposit together. And now we have record house prices and interest rates higher than they've been for years Can't complain too much though as property is much cheaper over here compared to England especially the south. Can get a 3 bedroom detached house with a garage for 180k and a semi for about 140k with a garage.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 12, 2023 11:29:36 GMT
Can you not call and challenge that? It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category. As much as I agree with you about the nature of this government, I can't help but think that if you're driving around in a car worth over £40k, you've not got that much to worry about
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 12, 2023 11:34:29 GMT
Interesting responses thank you! I have to just for info really. It's good to see some positivity about it and that people can actually see the deep complexity around it. I suppose I should have added more. He’s pre-op, but very much looks like a man with hairy arms and facial hair. Being trans isn’t something he hides from, but also not something he’s desperate to shout about in a look at me kind of way. He just gets on with life like the rest of us. As far as I know he hasn’t encountered anyone with a problem with him being trans but it probably helps that he’s a very likeable person. I very much agree with others on here who ask why folk worry about things that don’t affect them in the slightest, such as someone’s gender, skin colour, hair colour, or preference of red or brown on a bacon sandwich. However, there are plenty of the men to women trans folk who are desperate for attention, with simulated pregnancies and similar nonsense, who don’t help. Yeah some of the stuff you see is mad but then you've got to think it's the minority and not (on the whole) what's actually going on. But if that's the only trans person you seen then people will buy into that image. It's why I asked really. I've worked/work with 5 trans people and the way this debate is framed pretty much couldn't be further from how they are.
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Post by questionable on Apr 12, 2023 12:14:00 GMT
It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category. As much as I agree with you about the nature of this government, I can't help but think that if you're driving around in a car worth over £40k, you've not got that much to worry about Car prices have rocketed add the VAT/Import Tax and whatever stealth tax this government deems appropriate and 40k doesn’t get you much, plus I’d say most new cars are on PCP deals as mine is. It’s the principle of the matter that this corrupt government can just make shit up to steal money from us
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 12:18:36 GMT
Can you not call and challenge that? It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category. But have you actually called to challenge it? People give in over the phone all the time as they don’t want the hassle. My wife and I are beginning IVF, a part of that is an initial genetic testing screen. My wife’s cost $250 mine was charged at $700. They initially tried to talk crap about costs. Eventually, they brought it down to less than my wife’s.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 12, 2023 12:29:08 GMT
It’s the same every year, taxed the wife’s car also this morning letter says £165 when actually it’s £180. Robbing bastards 😡 Additional payments for cars worth £40,000 or more If you’re lucky enough to own a car that’s got a list price of £40,000 or more, you’ll find that your car is subject to an additional tax for the 5 years that follow the initial emissions-based payment. At the moment, this means there’s an additional £325 to pay if your car falls into this price category. But have you actually called to challenge it? People give in over the phone all the time as they don’t want the hassle. My wife and I are beginning IVF, a part of that is an initial genetic testing screen. My wife’s cost $250 mine was charged at $700. They initially tried to talk crap about costs. Eventually, they brought it down to less than my wife’s. Presumably that's private health providers you're talking about? Try haggling with the UK government on VED
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 12:46:31 GMT
But have you actually called to challenge it? People give in over the phone all the time as they don’t want the hassle. My wife and I are beginning IVF, a part of that is an initial genetic testing screen. My wife’s cost $250 mine was charged at $700. They initially tried to talk crap about costs. Eventually, they brought it down to less than my wife’s. Presumably that's private health providers you're talking about? Try haggling with the UK government on VED How often do people actually call up and see? Especially if their letter says something completely different to their bill? Being defeatist never gets you anywhere. Private companies don’t exactly like the idea of losing money either.
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Post by pipegatepotter on Apr 12, 2023 14:46:35 GMT
Presumably that's private health providers you're talking about? Try haggling with the UK government on VED How often do people actually call up and see? Especially if their letter says something completely different to their bill? Being defeatist never gets you anywhere. Private companies don’t exactly like the idea of losing money either. Did you receive your renewal letter before the budget? Has that been the reason why it’s increased? Don’t know if it did go up in the budget, just saying. Edit: just had a look and it was increased by 10.1% which looks about right according to your figures.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 12, 2023 14:53:17 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 12, 2023 15:38:51 GMT
Following on from the blackface/golliwog discussion earlier, this is 2023 folks ...
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 12, 2023 16:25:03 GMT
Why do things always have to be so black and white? Just because you might might have certain thoughts on transgender it doesn’t mean you’ll have the same thoughts about what is completely different like the RNLI who do a great job. That’s just plain silly. It’s like saying because you like footy you automatically like tennis. The problem with some people is they think you have to be one thing or another never somewhere in between. I think you put your point across very well though. You mean: The problem with gender is that some people think you have to be one thing or another never somewhere in between. Why do things always have to be so black and white? As I said I have no problem with transgender. If you look at my posts you can see that. What I do have an issue with is it being exploited in respect to - Sport (is it right that pre op m to f compete with females). - Using female changing rooms exclusively for women. Is it right in your opinion? - Too much information too soon for the very young. Let it happen naturally without outside influence. - Males changing gender to play the system eg prison. Thoughts? I’ve met 4 transgender people and had lengthy chats with them all. One was particularly inspiring and is currently doing great at Uni (f to m). He didn’t grow up amongst all the recent activism but went on a great journey to be what he is today. He’s a great lad who isn’t in to all the activism and just wants to be accepted which he is because of who he is as an individual.
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 12, 2023 17:22:40 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? I probably know more about the trans issue than most and it makes me angry to read some of the outright bias/ignorance of some comments from some of the posters on here. My eldest grandchild describes 'herself' (I'll skip the pronoun complexities to make it easier for some to understand) as Queer/Non-binary/Trans, and that's because one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they can can only see things in big boxes rather than understanding the complexities of the subject where, mostly, those stereotyped boxes are rubbish. She was born female and came out when she was 14. That caused some major problems. Her dad now almost accepts her but that side of the family completely rejected her once they found out. Fortunately, my side of the family accepted her completely and she's happy as Larry now, especially since both her paternal grandparents have now died. Sometimes, because she stays with me on her visits from her home in South Wales, we chat for ages about the complexities of gender dysfunction. I end up with my mind spinning trying to understand those complexities, especially with confusing sexuality with gender identity. That's because she's an extremely intelligent person (at 24 she has a Masters in her chosen path in life) and I'm just an old fashioned dummy. She was described in the South Wales Echo as one of five young people to watch out for in the future. So back to what she is. She's quite happy with her genitals but is currently awaiting breast surgery so she can become whatever she wants to be depending on how she feels on any particular day. (I did say it was complex.) She's happy in a dress or in an all-male outfit but tends towards the male side rather than the female one. She has loads of friends that range from broad minded straight people to cis gender and right up to out and out trans ones. She's now in a happy place and that brings great comfort to those who love her most - her family. But one thing she is uncomfortable about is using public gender-named identity toilets, which depends on how she dresses. So let's deal with that issue. She's intelligent enough to know it isn't going to happen overnight but just like it took decades to cater for disabled people, so it will be in the future for those like her. We already have them. For obvious reasons we have them on aircraft and many gigs etc. use them. I reckon in time it won't be an issue but for those who shout loudest, they expect them to happen overnight. That's where the woke issue comes in. They're just a tiny minority of those asking for change NOW! But, just as racism is becoming a cultural weapon to stereotype most non-whites as being at the forefront of sex crimes against under-age children, so too is the complete exaggeration of women's rights by the Damned Tories and the extreme right-wing press (and to a degree, Labour under Starmer too). Hopefully, most of society will win the battle and common sense will prevail and gender neutral toilets will become the norm. OS.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 12, 2023 17:33:05 GMT
Intrigued to know if people have actually met and chatted to some trans folk in the real life? I probably know more about the trans issue than most and it makes me angry to read some of the outright bias/ignorance of some comments from some of the posters on here. My eldest grandchild describes 'herself' (I'll skip the pronoun complexities to make it easier for some to understand) as Queer/Non-binary/Trans, and that's because one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they can can only see things in big boxes rather than understanding the complexities of the subject where, mostly, those stereotyped boxes are rubbish. She was born female and came out when she was 14. That caused some major problems. Her dad now almost accepts her but that side of the family completely rejected her once they found out. Fortunately, my side of the family accepted her completely and she's happy as Larry now, especially since both her paternal grandparents have now died. Sometimes, because she stays with me on her visits from her home in South Wales, we chat for ages about the complexities of gender dysfunction. I end up with my mind spinning trying to understand those complexities, especially with confusing sexually with gender identity. That's because she's an extremely intelligent person (at 24 she has a Masters in her chosen path in life) and I'm just an old fashioned dummy. She was described in the South Wales Echo as one of five young people to watch out for in the future. So back to what she is. She's quite happy with her genitals but is currently awaiting breast surgery so she can become whatever she wants to be depending on how she feels on any particular day. (I did say it was complex.) She's happy in a dress or in an all-male outfit but tends towards the male side rather than the female one. She has loads of friends that range from broad minded straight people to cis gender and right up to out and out trans ones. She's now in a happy place and that brings great comfort to those who love her most - her family. But one thing she is uncomfortable about is using public gender-named identity toilets, which depends on how she dresses. So let's deal with that issue. She's intelligent enough to know it isn't going to happen overnight but just like it took decades to cater for disabled people, so it will be in the future for those like her. We already have them. For obvious reasons we have them on aircraft and many gigs etc. use them. I reckon in time it won't be an issue but for those who shout loudest, they expect them to happen overnight. That's where the woke issue comes in. They're just a tiny minority of those asking for change NOW! But, just as racism is becoming a cultural weapon to stereotype most non-whites as being at the forefront of sex crimes against under-age children, so too is the complete exaggeration of women's rights by the Damned Tories and the extreme right-wing press (and to a degree, Labour under Starmer too). Hopefully, most of society will win the battle and common sense will prevail. OS. That's an excellent post Mick. I do wonder if this topic needs it's own dedicated thread?
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 12, 2023 17:40:35 GMT
I probably know more about the trans issue than most and it makes me angry to read some of the outright bias/ignorance of some comments from some of the posters on here. My eldest grandchild describes 'herself' (I'll skip the pronoun complexities to make it easier for some to understand) as Queer/Non-binary/Trans, and that's because one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they can can only see things in big boxes rather than understanding the complexities of the subject where, mostly, those stereotyped boxes are rubbish. She was born female and came out when she was 14. That caused some major problems. Her dad now almost accepts her but that side of the family completely rejected her once they found out. Fortunately, my side of the family accepted her completely and she's happy as Larry now, especially since both her paternal grandparents have now died. Sometimes, because she stays with me on her visits from her home in South Wales, we chat for ages about the complexities of gender dysfunction. I end up with my mind spinning trying to understand those complexities, especially with confusing sexually with gender identity. That's because she's an extremely intelligent person (at 24 she has a Masters in her chosen path in life) and I'm just an old fashioned dummy. She was described in the South Wales Echo as one of five young people to watch out for in the future. So back to what she is. She's quite happy with her genitals but is currently awaiting breast surgery so she can become whatever she wants to be depending on how she feels on any particular day. (I did say it was complex.) She's happy in a dress or in an all-male outfit but tends towards the male side rather than the female one. She has loads of friends that range from broad minded straight people to cis gender and right up to out and out trans ones. She's now in a happy place and that brings great comfort to those who love her most - her family. But one thing she is uncomfortable about is using public gender-named identity toilets, which depends on how she dresses. So let's deal with that issue. She's intelligent enough to know it isn't going to happen overnight but just like it took decades to cater for disabled people, so it will be in the future for those like her. We already have them. For obvious reasons we have them on aircraft and many gigs etc. use them. I reckon in time it won't be an issue but for those who shout loudest, they expect them to happen overnight. That's where the woke issue comes in. They're just a tiny minority of those asking for change NOW! But, just as racism is becoming a cultural weapon to stereotype most non-whites as being at the forefront of sex crimes against under-age children, so too is the complete exaggeration of women's rights by the Damned Tories and the extreme right-wing press (and to a degree, Labour under Starmer too). Hopefully, most of society will win the battle and common sense will prevail. OS. That's an excellent post Mick. I do wonder if this topic needs it's own dedicated thread?Maybe there should but I doubt I'll be joining in on it Paul. There are some battles you can't win with some people and at my age I don't need to be fighting battles. I've said all I needed to say and posters can take it or leave it. M.
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Post by lordb on Apr 12, 2023 17:43:32 GMT
Following on from the blackface/golliwog discussion earlier, this is 2023 folks ... Where do you start?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 12, 2023 17:46:29 GMT
Following on from the blackface/golliwog discussion earlier, this is 2023 folks ... Where do you start? At the beginning is usually a good place😉 Sorry Lord I’m in a cantankerous mood👀
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 12, 2023 17:51:57 GMT
Following on from the blackface/golliwog discussion earlier, this is 2023 folks ... I’d like to think he’s kicked out asap.
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