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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 11, 2023 10:29:46 GMT
The Tories absolutely should fight the election on subjects such as the trans debate/protection of women because they are hugely important topics that Labour won't go near. They should absolutely take on the culture wars. But they should also focus and more importantly start DELIVERING on other critical areas that voters want to see improvement on, such as the economy, public sector improvements, illegal immigration, lower taxation and education. Trials for those who voted in favour of lockdowns and absurd, comical mandates would be great as well but will settle for all of the above. š The "Conservatives" shouldn't be limiting themselves to quick, easy, vote winning slogans - They need to start delivering. Sunak has shown some signs he's willing to take on some of the difficult subjects but then again, he doesn't have any choice - If he doesn't, then he's out in 18 months and he'll know that. One thing they can guarantee - Starmer won't go near the difficult debates. When did the trans issue become so important to you? Have you been a big advocate of protecting womenās safe spaces all your life or is it just the latest issue for you to be outraged by?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2023 11:09:15 GMT
In general, I donāt see any difference in standing between where we are now and where we were in say 2001. Putin has thrown a war into Europe for the first time in a very long time, but then again, has he? Eastern Europe has been in and out of wars for decades. I donāt think that someone will risk war with the US because there is an 80 year old sitting there. The US wouldnāt have done anything differently under Trump, or under De Santisā¦.actually under the latter, they may just take Eastern Europe with some happy clapping from the prat. Overall, āculture warsā have existed all my life. Theyāve always looked to target the same things. When I was a kid, it was just gays rather than trans. Russia isnāt going to war because of trans rights. And to add to that, I think the reality of āculture warsā is seen more now than ever because itās the most connected society has ever been (and most disconnected when it comes to closer bonds). Things that may just have annoyed someone 30 years ago can become a real issue for them now as they talk to people who disagree with them regularly. Fair enough. I do agree re social media. It makes everything feel a lot more polarised and the vast majority of shit on there is eternally negative (see previous hundreds of pages on this thread). There are some good things happening in the world, but as ever, fear and anger sells a lot better. Agreed. Not just the people, but the algorithms that keep people engaged. Having your data sold by every site you enter so that you just get kept staring through one angle of a lens. Also, the 24/7 news cycle. Both just further separate people out. If you donāt agree with one thing and itās on a particular channel 24/7, you are going to distance yourself from that product and the people that do care for it (I think anyways). This does a better job of detailing the divisiveness: sites.bu.edu/pardeeatlas/back2school/how-the-american-media-landscape-is-polarizing-the-country/R.e negativity, it always strikes me that traditional news broadcasts always used to end on a quick, positive story. This lightened the mood at the end of an hour of contemplation. 24/7 news also doesnāt do that.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 11, 2023 12:01:04 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 12:15:37 GMT
The Tories absolutely should fight the election on subjects such as the trans debate/protection of women because they are hugely important topics that Labour won't go near. They should absolutely take on the culture wars. But they should also focus and more importantly start DELIVERING on other critical areas that voters want to see improvement on, such as the economy, public sector improvements, illegal immigration, lower taxation and education. Trials for those who voted in favour of lockdowns and absurd, comical mandates would be great as well but will settle for all of the above. š The "Conservatives" shouldn't be limiting themselves to quick, easy, vote winning slogans - They need to start delivering. Sunak has shown some signs he's willing to take on some of the difficult subjects but then again, he doesn't have any choice - If he doesn't, then he's out in 18 months and he'll know that. One thing they can guarantee - Starmer won't go near the difficult debates. When did the trans issue become so important to you? Have you been a big advocate of protecting womenās safe spaces all your life or is it just the latest issue for you to be outraged by? What an idiotic question - Then again, nothing from you comes as a surprise anymore. When has the safety of women not been a concern for the majority of civilised Brits?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 12:16:10 GMT
Fair enough. I do agree re social media. It makes everything feel a lot more polarised and the vast majority of shit on there is eternally negative (see previous hundreds of pages on this thread). There are some good things happening in the world, but as ever, fear and anger sells a lot better. Agreed. Not just the people, but the algorithms that keep people engaged. Having your data sold by every site you enter so that you just get kept staring through one angle of a lens. Also, the 24/7 news cycle. Both just further separate people out. If you donāt agree with one thing and itās on a particular channel 24/7, you are going to distance yourself from that product and the people that do care for it (I think anyways). This does a better job of detailing the divisiveness: sites.bu.edu/pardeeatlas/back2school/how-the-american-media-landscape-is-polarizing-the-country/R.e negativity, it always strikes me that traditional news broadcasts always used to end on a quick, positive story. This lightened the mood at the end of an hour of contemplation. 24/7 news also doesnāt do that. Indeed.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 11, 2023 12:41:20 GMT
When did the trans issue become so important to you? Have you been a big advocate of protecting womenās safe spaces all your life or is it just the latest issue for you to be outraged by? What an idiotic question - Then again, nothing from you comes as a surprise anymore. When has the safety of women not been a concern for the majority of civilised Brits? What's idiotic about it? The Equalities Act and most of the issues associated with it have been around since 2010, yet all of a sudden it's an issue of huge concern to you and others. So what's changed, I guess I'm just wondering if there is a bandgwagon you won't jump on?
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 11, 2023 13:21:49 GMT
Come the next election the Tories are going to fail on everything and that's why they've now targeted a cultural war to appeal to the LCD of society who still live in the last century. They're never going to deal with the hundreds of thousands of those immigrants who are already here and apart from the Albanians, who should have been deported immediately, rather than them filling military camps and hotels and brain dead schemes like sending some to Rwanda, they should be given an amnesty and put to work to fill the hundreds of thousands of vacancies we have for workers, especially in the service sector. They would then be paying taxes at the same time as getting us out of a hole regarding a shortage of workers helping farmers stop the waste of food left rotting in the fields and restaurants/food outlets closing down simply because they can't get the staff to cope with demand. The overwhelming majority of them will have a case to stay here so by giving them an amnesty, it will kill a number of birds in one fell swoop. It's just common sense except to those who have not recognised that we're now a very multi-cultural society. I was in hospital recently and pretty much half the wonderful staff there were non-British. The NHS would collapse if it wasn't for them and many more are needed to help get it going again. I would add one thing to that... they should not be used to lower the wages of ordinary people.
I'm one of the few who can go back to a time when we were all pretty much white and British but I wouldn't swap the those times for the richness of multiculturalism we have now. Even our nogger is so much better with the superb players who ply their trade here now, and if I want to go out for a meal then I have a choice of dozens of menus from all parts of the world to choose from. It's wonderful. Yes, I know there are some bad apples amongst the non-British born immigrants, but there were plenty of those about when I was a youngster. As an example, many of the hauliers in this city prospered during and after the war out of the dodgy dealings they made on the black market during the war. It's no different than what's happened recently. Tens of billions have been robbed from society from the worst viral infection for 100 years. And most of those billions have gone to white and British scum.
Starmer should keep his mouth shut and let the Tories hang themselves on their own petard rather than trying to fight a culture war. Most of the general public have seen enough damage by the Tories to put false culturalism negativity before reality. It's why most people have taken the side of those out on strike before the government bullshit they espouse.
OS.
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 11, 2023 13:28:15 GMT
What an idiotic question - Then again, nothing from you comes as a surprise anymore. When has the safety of women not been a concern for the majority of civilised Brits? What's idiotic about it?Ā The Equalities Act and most of the issues associated with it have been around since 2010, yet all of a sudden it's an issue of huge concern to you and others.Ā So what's changed, I guess I'm just wondering if there is a bandgwagon you won't jump on?Ā Ā I do think thats a little unfair on Rossi this is a very recent issue for discussion that simply wasnāt around 10 years ago. Itās only over the last year or 2 that therāve been issues around sport in particular but also around the use of female toilets and prisons. I have no issues with people who are genuinly transgender but it feels like itās open to abuse at the moment from those looking for opportunity.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 11, 2023 13:50:37 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 11, 2023 13:52:43 GMT
Enough of the trans āissueā distraction rubbish. What about the biggest and most damaging and dangerous strike in our history which is currently happening? When do we all predict the government will cave and sit down and negotiate this time? Why wonāt it just fast forward to negotiations now, rather than causing lots of unnecessary deaths and suffering? The government has handled the strikes in all sectors so badly and is demonstrating with the junior doctors that it hasnāt learnt a thing.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 11, 2023 14:06:55 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 11, 2023 14:17:37 GMT
What's idiotic about it? The Equalities Act and most of the issues associated with it have been around since 2010, yet all of a sudden it's an issue of huge concern to you and others. So what's changed, I guess I'm just wondering if there is a bandgwagon you won't jump on? I do think thats a little unfair on Rossi this is a very recent issue for discussion that simply wasnāt around 10 years ago. Itās only over the last year or 2 that therāve been issues around sport in particular but also around the use of female toilets and prisons. I have no issues with people who are genuinly transgender but it feels like itās open to abuse at the moment from those looking for opportunity. And why has the issue only just come to light in the last 2 years? Transgender women (transgender men are rarely mentioned in any of these debates of course) have been using women's toilets regularly for years and years. And all of a sudden the genital inspectors are out in force trying to create a huge drama over a relatively small issue in the grand scheme of things. Take an issue, blow it out of all proportion and strike fear amongst ordinary people, it's barmy......
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 11, 2023 15:24:42 GMT
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 11, 2023 15:28:37 GMT
I do think thats a little unfair on Rossi this is a very recent issue for discussion that simply wasnāt around 10 years ago. Itās only over the last year or 2 that therāve been issues around sport in particular but also around the use of female toilets and prisons. I have no issues with people who are genuinly transgender but it feels like itās open to abuse at the moment from those looking for opportunity. And why has the issue only just come to light in the last 2 years?Ā Transgender women (transgender men are rarely mentioned in any of these debates of course) have been using women's toilets regularly for years and years.Ā And all of a sudden the genital inspectors are out in force trying to create a huge drama over a relatively small issue in the grand scheme of things.Ā Take an issue, blow it out of all proportion and strike fear amongst ordinary people, it's barmy...... Because of characters like this abusing the system and the activists attacking females. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.kentonline.co.uk/news/national/amp/transgender-woman-will-serve-sentence-in-male-prison-after-stabbing-partner-84714/Iād be very interested to know when he began to identify as female. Iāve met 2-3 transgender young people both m to f and f to m and theyāre very genuine in what they want and have started hormone treatment at the age of 18. Good people knowing they were born in the wrong body. Huge difference between them and those activists or chancers abusing the transgender name to take advantage whether by being held in a female prison or gaining a gold in athletics.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 11, 2023 15:36:21 GMT
And why has the issue only just come to light in the last 2 years? Transgender women (transgender men are rarely mentioned in any of these debates of course) have been using women's toilets regularly for years and years. And all of a sudden the genital inspectors are out in force trying to create a huge drama over a relatively small issue in the grand scheme of things. Take an issue, blow it out of all proportion and strike fear amongst ordinary people, it's barmy...... Because of characters like this abusing the system and the activists attacking females. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.kentonline.co.uk/news/national/amp/transgender-woman-will-serve-sentence-in-male-prison-after-stabbing-partner-84714/Iād be very interested to know when he began to identify as female. Iāve met 2-3 transgender young people both m to f and f to m and theyāre very genuine in what they want and have started hormone treatment at the age of 18. Good people knowing they were born in the wrong body. Huge difference between them and those activists or chancers abusing the transgender name to take advantage whether by being held in a female prison or gaining a gold in athletics. Anyone can show individual anecdotal evidence though. A wrong 'un is a wrong 'un, a sexual predator is a sexual predator irrespective of whether they're trans or otherwise. The issue in the grand scheme of things is tiny compared to the amount of coverage it gets........................
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Post by wannabee on Apr 11, 2023 15:55:18 GMT
Raab treats everyone with contempt, why would the High Court be any different
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 11, 2023 16:13:43 GMT
Anyone can show individual anecdotal evidence though.Ā A wrong 'un is a wrong 'un, a sexual predator is a sexual predator irrespective of whether they're trans or otherwise.Ā Ā The issue in the grand scheme of things is tiny compared to the amount of coverage it gets........................ Iām not so sure. I guess time will tell. What I would say though is that in Schools thereās a huge increase in people identifying as trans / non binary (I speak from experience). A friend had a whole class of year 8s identifying as gender neutral in his school. Someone else (not a friend) that I met said that 90 percent of the trans / gender neutral people heād met had underlying mental health issues. Itās a very complex issue. As I said I donāt have an issue with trans people if theyāre genuine but itās a fine line between being a need linked to mental health and wanting to be just different to what the person was before. For me for young people we should be accepting of all genders but the gender should never be forced on the very young. Let them make their own mind up naturally and without encouragement.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 17:00:09 GMT
What's idiotic about it?Ā The Equalities Act and most of the issues associated with it have been around since 2010, yet all of a sudden it's an issue of huge concern to you and others.Ā So what's changed, I guess I'm just wondering if there is a bandgwagon you won't jump on?Ā Ā I do think thats a little unfair on Rossi this is a very recent issue for discussion that simply wasnāt around 10 years ago. Itās only over the last year or 2 that therāve been issues around sport in particular but also around the use of female toilets and prisons. I have no issues with people who are genuinly transgender but it feels like itās open to abuse at the moment from those looking for opportunity. Careful mate, you are running the risk of teaching Prestwich a thing or two about the safety of women, the dangers of sections of the trans movement and dare I say it, applying reason and common sense to one of his inevitably (and often disturbingly so) dumb questions.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 11, 2023 17:08:08 GMT
Anyone can show individual anecdotal evidence though.Ā A wrong 'un is a wrong 'un, a sexual predator is a sexual predator irrespective of whether they're trans or otherwise.Ā Ā The issue in the grand scheme of things is tiny compared to the amount of coverage it gets........................ Iām not so sure. I guess time will tell. What I would say though is that in Schools thereās a huge increase in people identifying as trans / non binary (I speak from experience). A friend had a whole class of year 8s identifying as gender neutral in his school. Someone else (not a friend) that I met said that 90 percent of the trans / gender neutral people heād met had underlying mental health issues. Itās a very complex issue. As I said I donāt have an issue with trans people if theyāre genuine but itās a fine line between being a need linked to mental health and wanting to be just different to what the person was before. For me for young people we should be accepting of all genders but the gender should never be forced on the very young. Let them make their own mind up naturally and without encouragement. Would you say it's now 'fashionable' to identify as non-binary?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 17:14:47 GMT
Iām not so sure. I guess time will tell. What I would say though is that in Schools thereās a huge increase in people identifying as trans / non binary (I speak from experience). A friend had a whole class of year 8s identifying as gender neutral in his school. Someone else (not a friend) that I met said that 90 percent of the trans / gender neutral people heād met had underlying mental health issues. Itās a very complex issue. As I said I donāt have an issue with trans people if theyāre genuine but itās a fine line between being a need linked to mental health and wanting to be just different to what the person was before. For me for young people we should be accepting of all genders but the gender should never be forced on the very young. Let them make their own mind up naturally and without encouragement. Would you say it's now 'fashionable' to identify as non-binary? Absolutely. Certain men or women change their tune more times than a dodgy record player on their gender. It'd be funny if it wasn't so utterly creepy and so incredibly dangerous and insulting to actual women. Watching the woke set get themselves tangled up in their own self made anti feminism hypocrisy and pissing off the communities they profess to support is mildly entertaining, if nothing else.
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Post by yeswilko on Apr 11, 2023 17:17:56 GMT
Would you say it's now 'fashionable' to identify as non-binary? Absolutely. Certain men or women change their tune more times than a dodgy record player on their gender. It'd be funny if it wasn't so utterly creepy and so incredibly dangerous and insulting to actual women. How many people are you talking about here?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 17:23:23 GMT
Absolutely. Certain men or women change their tune more times than a dodgy record player on their gender. It'd be funny if it wasn't so utterly creepy and so incredibly dangerous and insulting to actual women. How many people are you talking about here? I'll just go and count them on Instagram and come back to you later. The one that was eye wateringly bizarre recently was an article I saw on world renowned wokie Demi Lovato. She changed from being a women to non binary to something else to then claiming "I'm so fluid now". What does that even mean šš I take back some of my earlier post on fighting elections on culture wars. It would be a travesty if Conservatives didn't campaign on waging full scale war on woke. It needs to happen. āŗļø
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Post by yeswilko on Apr 11, 2023 17:40:54 GMT
How many people are you talking about here? I'll just go and count them on Instagram and come back to you later. The one that was eye wateringly bizarre recently was an article I saw on world renowned wokie Demi Lovato. She changed from being a women to non binary to something else to then claiming "I'm so fluid now". What does that even mean šš I take back some of my earlier post on fighting elections on culture wars. It would be a travesty if Conservatives didn't campaign on waging full scale war on woke. It needs to happen. āŗļø If it is such an important matter you must have an idea of numbers surely?.. It seems you must have an incredibly comfortable life if this is the stuff that bothers you the most. Are you sure you're not just being trolled loads on twitter?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 11, 2023 17:47:54 GMT
Anyone can show individual anecdotal evidence though. A wrong 'un is a wrong 'un, a sexual predator is a sexual predator irrespective of whether they're trans or otherwise. The issue in the grand scheme of things is tiny compared to the amount of coverage it gets........................ But certain people respond very well to having an out-group to demonise, encouraged to do so by certain sections of the Press, and the more unhinged members of the government, like 30p Lee etc. Sadly, 'twas ever thus and, until people stop to ask themselves why they're so energised about something that will have zero impact on well over 99% of people's lives, while not being anywhere near as motivated to complain about the NHS, education standards, social care, environmental issues etc etc, the nastier side of this government and its client Press will continue to take advantage of these people's lack of critical thinking.
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 11, 2023 18:13:28 GMT
Anyone can show individual anecdotal evidence though.Ā A wrong 'un is a wrong 'un, a sexual predator is a sexual predator irrespective of whether they're trans or otherwise.Ā Ā The issue in the grand scheme of things is tiny compared to the amount of coverage it gets........................ But certain people respond very well to having an out-group to demonise, encouraged to do so by certain sections of the Press, and the more unhinged members of the government, like 30p Lee etc. Sadly, 'twas ever thus and, until people stop to ask themselves why they're so energised about something that will have zero impact on well over 99% of people's lives, while not being anywhere near as motivated to complain about the NHS, education standards, social care, environmental issues etc etc, the nastier side of this government and its client Press will continue to take advantage of these people's lack of critical thinking. 1) Why does every thought we have need to be lead by politics? Canāt it be just a talking point about a specific subject. We talk about all sorts of subjects that arenāt politically lead. Footy, mental health etc. Canāt it just be an individual opinion? 2) Other groups get demonised based on individuals and pushed by the press. Police being a good example. Iām sure thereās plenty pointing the finger around ācertain peopleā that would be the first to put the boot in on other groups in society. Another good example would be the royal family. They have next to no impact on most of us individually. Everyoneās guilty of it.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 18:23:06 GMT
I'll just go and count them on Instagram and come back to you later. The one that was eye wateringly bizarre recently was an article I saw on world renowned wokie Demi Lovato. She changed from being a women to non binary to something else to then claiming "I'm so fluid now". What does that even mean šš I take back some of my earlier post on fighting elections on culture wars. It would be a travesty if Conservatives didn't campaign on waging full scale war on woke. It needs to happen. āŗļø If it is such an important matter you must have an idea of numbers surely?.. It seems you must have an incredibly comfortable life if this is the stuff that bothers you the most. Are you sure you're not just being trolled loads on twitter? That'd be great if I was on twitter. Do you still have issues with people who work in supermarkets?
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Post by wannabee on Apr 11, 2023 18:25:26 GMT
How many people are you talking about here? I'll just go and count them on Instagram and come back to you later. The one that was eye wateringly bizarre recently was an article I saw on world renowned wokie Demi Lovato. She changed from being a women to non binary to something else to then claiming "I'm so fluid now". What does that even mean šš I take back some of my earlier post on fighting elections on culture wars. It would be a travesty if Conservatives didn't campaign on waging full scale war on woke. It needs to happen. āŗļø Does this mean you are fluid or perhaps even binary in your opinions?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 11, 2023 18:42:32 GMT
But certain people respond very well to having an out-group to demonise, encouraged to do so by certain sections of the Press, and the more unhinged members of the government, like 30p Lee etc. Sadly, 'twas ever thus and, until people stop to ask themselves why they're so energised about something that will have zero impact on well over 99% of people's lives, while not being anywhere near as motivated to complain about the NHS, education standards, social care, environmental issues etc etc, the nastier side of this government and its client Press will continue to take advantage of these people's lack of critical thinking. 1) Why does every thought we have need to be lead by politics? Canāt it be just a talking point about a specific subject. We talk about all sorts of subjects that arenāt politically lead. Footy, mental health etc. Canāt it just be an individual opinion? 2) Other groups get demonised based on individuals and pushed by the press. Police being a good example. Iām sure thereās plenty pointing the finger around ācertain peopleā that would be the first to put the boot in on other groups in society. Another good example would be the royal family. They have next to no impact on most of us individually. Everyoneās guilty of it. Party politics is everything with these guys Cobz. They live for it. Well, anti anything that is an inch right of centre left politics. A quick guide to being a die hard member of the (white) privileged Liberal left. - Anyone who questions the logic of lockdowns = far right anti vaxxer. - Anyone who claims women are born adult human females with vaginas = anti trans fascist. - Anyone who voted for Brexit = white racist. - Anyone who raises any kind of debate around climate change and questions whether the world is actually ending = apocalypse denying flat earther. And a fascist. - Anyone who thinks earning money and having a decent job is good = capitalist scum (he/she says while relentlessly hashtagging and capturing their latest soy Latte on insta on their Ā£1200 iPhone while living in a 500k apartment bought by mum and dad in Islington). - Anyone who thinks protecting one's borders from illegal immigrants is sensible = Nazi. - Anyone who thinks the NHS and our public services in general are inefficient, shouldn't be striking, are underperforming and in need of reform = how dare you! - Anyone who thinks de-colonising the curriculum and unconscious bias training of children (and adults) is a load of bollocks = old, white racist.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 11, 2023 18:43:05 GMT
I do think thats a little unfair on Rossi this is a very recent issue for discussion that simply wasnāt around 10 years ago. Itās only over the last year or 2 that therāve been issues around sport in particular but also around the use of female toilets and prisons. I have no issues with people who are genuinly transgender but it feels like itās open to abuse at the moment from those looking for opportunity. Careful mate, you are running the risk of teaching Prestwich a thing or two about the safety of women, the dangers of sections of the trans movement and dare I say it, applying reason and common sense to one of his inevitably (and often disturbingly so) dumb questions. Yep because those small percentage of rogue men posing as transwomen are the real danger to women, not the tens of thousands of violent/misogynistic pricks that live amongst us. Keep shouting at the clouds..........
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Post by yeswilko on Apr 11, 2023 18:44:14 GMT
If it is such an important matter you must have an idea of numbers surely?.. It seems you must have an incredibly comfortable life if this is the stuff that bothers you the most. Are you sure you're not just being trolled loads on twitter? That'd be great if I was on twitter. Do you still have issues with people who work in supermarkets? Never have had, now back to you talking bollocks.. how many people are you talking about changing genders all the time?
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