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Post by yeswilko on Mar 29, 2023 21:15:08 GMT
Braverman: Sorry but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules. AS: But how else could I have got here, there isn't any other alternative? Braverman: That maybe so but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules. What has Ben Wallace said about it? As a former soldier and defence secretary I imagine he won't be too happy. Every person that understands what's going on here is disgusted. Only those that don't understand or choose to look away remain.
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Post by knype on Mar 30, 2023 5:22:09 GMT
I don't listen to any BBC radio stations tbf and listen less to any yougov or other similar polls? So what evidence did you base your "it's been shite for a lot longer than that" assertion on? Experiences that me and my family have had over the years
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Post by knype on Mar 30, 2023 5:23:33 GMT
It's been shite for a lot more than that! Mate this simply isn't true. Under the last Labour government, government spending above inflation on the NHS was higher than at any time since it began and in 2010, public satisfaction levels with the NHS were higher than at any time since it began. Just because spending was higher it doesnt mean it was run any better or there weren't bed shortages every year? Or treatment's getting cancelled etc etc
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Post by henry on Mar 30, 2023 5:39:24 GMT
Mate this simply isn't true. Under the last Labour government, government spending above inflation on the NHS was higher than at any time since it began and in 2010, public satisfaction levels with the NHS were higher than at any time since it began. Just because spending was higher it doesnt mean it was run any better or there weren't bed shortages every year? Or treatment's getting cancelled etc etc Yep. Looking at that graph it’s no comfort to me that the NHS was swimming in cash when it completely failed to diagnose and treat my dads cancer, instead of just being sent home with a course of antibiotics.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 30, 2023 5:44:29 GMT
Mate this simply isn't true. Under the last Labour government, government spending above inflation on the NHS was higher than at any time since it began and in 2010, public satisfaction levels with the NHS were higher than at any time since it began. Just because spending was higher it doesnt mean it was run any better or there weren't bed shortages every year? Or treatment's getting cancelled etc etc Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better
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Post by elystokie on Mar 30, 2023 6:43:20 GMT
So what evidence did you base your "it's been shite for a lot longer than that" assertion on? Experiences that me and my family have had over the years Well that's me convinced. Personal anecdotes trump empirical data and public surveys every time. Oh, hold on a minute, no they don't, that's just bollocks.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 30, 2023 6:55:49 GMT
Experiences that me and my family have had over the years Well that's me convinced. Personal anecdotes trump empirical data and public surveys every time. Oh, hold on a minute, no they don't, that's just bollocks. It is quite revealing just how often individual personal experiences are used as judgments for the entire system, whatever that system may be, thus ignoring independently gathered data and evidence. But even that's not consistent. None of the woke bollocks affects anyone in any material way. Similarly, nor does the small boats stuff. Yet, the absence of any direct personal negative experience on these issues is apparently not relevant...
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 30, 2023 7:37:39 GMT
Well that's me convinced. Personal anecdotes trump empirical data and public surveys every time. Oh, hold on a minute, no they don't, that's just bollocks. It is quite revealing just how often individual personal experiences are used as judgments for the entire system, whatever that system may be, thus ignoring independently gathered data and evidence. But even that's not consistent. None of the woke bollocks affects anyone in any material way. Similarly, nor does the small boats stuff. Yet, the absence of any direct personal negative experience on these issues is apparently not relevant... There has to be a "postcode lottery" when it comes to treatment on the NHS. Here under Plymouth NHS Trust over the last 14 years I’ve had 2 hip replacements and been treated for duodenal cancer which included timely surgery and chemotherapy. I’m still under surveillance and will have 2 more CT scans before I’m discharged. My Mrs is Type 1 diabetic and has been looked after exemplary over nearly 50 years and has always been given the latest in technology to help her to live more easily with the disease. My daughter suffered a horrific leg break after falling from a horse 8 years ago and had her knee rebuilt by Peninsular NHS Trust in Cornwall. Don’t get me wrong I’m not judging the whole NHS system by my own experiences but you can see why people might do so without looking at "the bigger picture".
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Post by elystokie on Mar 30, 2023 7:54:11 GMT
It is quite revealing just how often individual personal experiences are used as judgments for the entire system, whatever that system may be, thus ignoring independently gathered data and evidence. But even that's not consistent. None of the woke bollocks affects anyone in any material way. Similarly, nor does the small boats stuff. Yet, the absence of any direct personal negative experience on these issues is apparently not relevant... There has to be a "postcode lottery" when it comes to treatment on the NHS. Here under Plymouth NHS Trust over the last 14 years I’ve had 2 hip replacements and been treated for duodenal cancer which included timely surgery and chemotherapy. I’m still under surveillance and will have 2 more CT scans before I’m discharged. My Mrs is Type 1 diabetic and has been looked after exemplary over nearly 50 years and has always been given the latest in technology to help her to live more easily with the disease. My daughter suffered a horrific leg break after falling from a horse 8 years ago and had her knee rebuilt by Peninsular NHS Trust in Cornwall. Don’t get me wrong I’m not judging the whole NHS system by my own experiences but you can see why people might do so without looking at "the bigger picture". My own experiences recently haven't been bad at all once I've been able to get to see or speak to the Doctor, I booked a phone appointment recently for 3 weeks time with the musculoskeletal clinic and getting an x-ray was very easy. On the flip side I've found it a bit of a nightmare to get to see a Doctor, on the new Patch system thing all the appointments had gone in less than 12 minutes! None of this entitles me to make sweeping statements regarding the efficiency or otherwise of the NHS when faced with a public survey that clearly indicates deterioration under this government.
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Post by werrington on Mar 30, 2023 8:00:16 GMT
We can’t afford the public sector pay rises apparently
Keep voting for them you fools
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 30, 2023 8:17:20 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. Personally, I think the rich should foot the bill. Why is it fair that I pay a much higher proportion of my income to the tax man than Rishi Sunak does, when he is immeasurably wealthier than I am!? At least make the rich pay as much tax as I have to proportionally, and then see what more is needed. I've always felt a flat rate of tax is the way forward - keep (or raise) the tax free personal allowance and then just charge everyone the same percent on all income whether it's PAYE, dividends, capital gains or whatever. It's way more complicated than it needs to be.
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Post by knype on Mar 30, 2023 8:32:47 GMT
Just because spending was higher it doesnt mean it was run any better or there weren't bed shortages every year? Or treatment's getting cancelled etc etc Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 30, 2023 8:38:52 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2023 8:54:49 GMT
Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars! So you're claiming that the thousands of people who were surveyed in 2010, who gave the NHS it's highest ever approval rating, they were all liars? And the thousands of people who have been surveyed recently, who have given the NHS it's lowest ever approval rating, are they all liars too? In fact, are all people who answer NHS surveys, simply habitual liars?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 30, 2023 8:56:39 GMT
Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars! And yet all the evidence confirms that the NHS was better under Labour. Odd that you can't see or admit that.
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Post by werrington on Mar 30, 2023 8:58:01 GMT
Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars! It’s like that because of the money stripped from it mate ….and you’ve played right into their hands Around ( roughly ) £750m has been stripped from the nhs in the last 10 years so when they say they’ve given it £70m it still leaves a shortfall of ….well do the maths Many of the services within the nhs are private companies so yeah it is a cash cow ….for them Beds in the community have been slashed with these wards shut in this city alone Bradwell 2 wards Longton cottage 2 wards Cheadle 2 wards Leek Moorlands 2 wards 8 wards at roughly 30 people on each ward so roughly 240 beds IN THIS CITY ALONE where patients who aren’t ready for home are blocking Royal Stoke acute beds they don’t need See past the media/government narrative Knype and scrape the surface I know because I work it
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 30, 2023 8:58:30 GMT
Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars! So don’t see any difference in having to wait three times as long for treatment under the tories compared with under Labour? You don’t think that is a sign that labour run it better?
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Post by Davef on Mar 30, 2023 9:07:54 GMT
We can’t afford the public sector pay rises apparently Keep voting for them you fools Double it... archive.ph/2STg1#
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 30, 2023 9:12:16 GMT
Surely people having to wait for shorter periods of time for treatment is direct evidence that it was run better? And, not surprisingly, there seems to be a direct link between spending and treatment times. Having directly experienced it "being shite" you must have some thoughts on why and what needed to happen to make it better Cancelled appointments on the day, lost x-rays, physiotherapy where they print something off for you to work on at home....just a few things that narked me. The whole system needs looking at, its a cash cow, the more money you pump into it, the more they will want and need, I am not defending the tories, in fact they are useless with regards to the NHS but those that say it's run better under Labour are liars! The only party that can really reform the NHS is Labour as they are trusted on the issue. The key to the whole thing is adequate social care so you don't have masses of elderly people stuck in limbo i.e. well enough to be out of hospital but not to be alone at home. As usual, nobody wants to really grasp this nettle as it means people paying more money. I thought that Theresa May's 'dementia tax' proposals were a step in the right direction and at least an attempt to manage the problem but of course, much gnashing of teeth ensued.
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Post by werrington on Mar 30, 2023 10:07:29 GMT
Some mainstream media ( apart from the BBC of course ) are starting to turn
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Post by henry on Mar 30, 2023 10:08:05 GMT
What would those that are refused asylum do after being processed? Surely they wouldn’t be tempted to cross the channel in a small boat would they.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2023 10:34:16 GMT
What would those that are refused asylum do after being processed? Surely they wouldn’t be tempted to cross the channel in a small boat would they. Considering that currently, 70% of those who do seek asylum, ARE granted asylum, it would instantly mean that the numbers coming across in small boats would be slashed immediately. Ergo, meaning that the millions spent housing 'illegals' by the tax payer in hotels would be slashed immediately. It would also mean that everybody who lands on British soil in a small boat WOULD be illegal and therefore they wouldn't be able to hide amongst the overwhelming majority of legitimate of asylum seekers. Once you are left totally exposed like that, with nowhere to hide, the boats would soon stop. As an analogy, pick pocketers don't target people on virtually empty streets because it becomes immediately obvious who the perpetrators are. Thing is, the government don't WANT to stop the small boats, they've deliberately allowed the processing back log to build up, so they can give us all somebody to hate and direct our anger on, instead of us pouring onto the streets in protest at the fuck-up they've made of running the country.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 30, 2023 10:35:13 GMT
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Post by gawa on Mar 30, 2023 10:41:08 GMT
She should be sacked and made an example of. Same goes for the others who knowingly broke rules.
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Post by henry on Mar 30, 2023 10:48:32 GMT
What would those that are refused asylum do after being processed? Surely they wouldn’t be tempted to cross the channel in a small boat would they. Considering that currently, 70% of those who do seek asylum, ARE granted asylum, it would instantly mean that the numbers coming across in small boats would be slashed immediately. Ergo, meaning that the millions spent housing 'illegals' by the tax payer in hotels would be slashed immediately. It would also mean that everybody who lands on British soil in a small boat WOULD be illegal and therefore they wouldn't be able to hide amongst the overwhelming majority of legitimate of asylum seekers. Once you are left totally exposed like that, with nowhere to hide, the boats would soon stop. As an analogy, pick pocketers don't target people on virtually empty streets because it becomes immediately obvious who the perpetrators are. Thing is, the government don't WANT to stop the small boats, they've deliberately allowed the processing back log to build up, so they can give us all somebody to hate and direct our anger on, instead of us pouring onto the streets in protest at the fuck-up they've made of running the country. I think it’s naive to suggest the illegal immigrants would stop crossing the channel. People don’t need to direct their anger to stop protests on the streets, as a country we don’t really protest at day to day issues.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 30, 2023 11:17:33 GMT
She should be sacked and made an example of. Same goes for the others who knowingly broke rules. I think she should be promoted to PM. Didn’t he get fined for breaching the rules?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 30, 2023 11:19:05 GMT
What would those that are refused asylum do after being processed? Surely they wouldn’t be tempted to cross the channel in a small boat would they. They might. But we could legally send them to Rwanda if we provide a safe and legal route as an alternative and they choose not to/fail to meet the requirements for it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 30, 2023 11:20:28 GMT
Considering that currently, 70% of those who do seek asylum, ARE granted asylum, it would instantly mean that the numbers coming across in small boats would be slashed immediately. Ergo, meaning that the millions spent housing 'illegals' by the tax payer in hotels would be slashed immediately. It would also mean that everybody who lands on British soil in a small boat WOULD be illegal and therefore they wouldn't be able to hide amongst the overwhelming majority of legitimate of asylum seekers. Once you are left totally exposed like that, with nowhere to hide, the boats would soon stop. As an analogy, pick pocketers don't target people on virtually empty streets because it becomes immediately obvious who the perpetrators are. Thing is, the government don't WANT to stop the small boats, they've deliberately allowed the processing back log to build up, so they can give us all somebody to hate and direct our anger on, instead of us pouring onto the streets in protest at the fuck-up they've made of running the country. I think it’s naive to suggest the illegal immigrants would stop crossing the channel. People don’t need to direct their anger to stop protests on the streets, as a country we don’t really protest at day to day issues. A few hundred, maybe a thousand a year compared with tens of thousands. Surely that is better than nothing?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2023 11:47:42 GMT
Considering that currently, 70% of those who do seek asylum, ARE granted asylum, it would instantly mean that the numbers coming across in small boats would be slashed immediately. Ergo, meaning that the millions spent housing 'illegals' by the tax payer in hotels would be slashed immediately. It would also mean that everybody who lands on British soil in a small boat WOULD be illegal and therefore they wouldn't be able to hide amongst the overwhelming majority of legitimate of asylum seekers. Once you are left totally exposed like that, with nowhere to hide, the boats would soon stop. As an analogy, pick pocketers don't target people on virtually empty streets because it becomes immediately obvious who the perpetrators are. Thing is, the government don't WANT to stop the small boats, they've deliberately allowed the processing back log to build up, so they can give us all somebody to hate and direct our anger on, instead of us pouring onto the streets in protest at the fuck-up they've made of running the country. I think it’s naive to suggest the illegal immigrants would stop crossing the channel. People don’t need to direct their anger to stop protests on the streets, as a country we don’t really protest at day to day issues. But you accept that the numbers coming on boats would drop massively? EDIT: Apologies, I replied before seeing that Oggy had already made the same point. EDIT 2: I've just seen this for the first time, she makes exactly the same point.
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Post by gawa on Mar 30, 2023 12:02:59 GMT
She should be sacked and made an example of. Same goes for the others who knowingly broke rules. I think she should be promoted to PM. Didn’t he get fined for breaching the rules? Should have been sacked with the rest of them. Especially as he and his political party developed and implemented the guidelines.
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