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Post by elystokie on Mar 29, 2023 11:00:25 GMT
Just been on Radio Stoke news, probably covered in that article, 70% were satisfied with the service in 2010 but only 29% are now. I don't listen to any BBC radio stations tbf and listen less to any yougov or other similar polls? So what evidence did you base your "it's been shite for a lot longer than that" assertion on?
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 29, 2023 11:09:51 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer.
The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 29, 2023 11:09:57 GMT
Way beyond my remit, what will Labour do to fix it? I'd imagine they'll be less devoted to targeting it for continuous cuts, which would be a start... And you would hope there'd be a bit more competition for contracts that might just get awarded on merit as opposed to the qualifying factor of being the mate or relative of a tory MP.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2023 11:16:41 GMT
I'm not sure what will be more shocking for Express readers, the realisation (unlikely!) that 13 years of the people they vote for has effectively ruined the health service or the absence of migrants from the front page. Hopefully, normal service will be resumed for them tomorrow. It's been shite for a lot more than that! Mate this simply isn't true. Under the last Labour government, government spending above inflation on the NHS was higher than at any time since it began and in 2010, public satisfaction levels with the NHS were higher than at any time since it began.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 29, 2023 11:17:27 GMT
Just been on Radio Stoke news, probably covered in that article, 70% were satisfied with the service in 2010 but only 29% are now. I don't listen to any BBC radio stations tbf and listen less to any yougov or other similar polls? You don't bother with polls where lots of people are asked about their experience of the NHS, but we are supposed to go along with one single pronouncement from your perspective . All the key performance indicators show that under the Tories NHS performance has been deteroriating (including before covid). Here we have a poll which suggests that people's experiences reflect that declining performance , but you carry on in denial if you like.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 11:26:28 GMT
What would you do to make the NHS better? What do you think the Tory government should do to make the NHS better? Way beyond my remit, what will Labour do to fix it? You said it's been shite way before the Tories came to power, yet in 2010 it had a 70% satisfaction rating. So unless it was just a knee jerk reaction to some criticism of the failings of this government, what was it about it specifically that made you say it's been shite for ages?
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 11:32:01 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. Why should the wealthy not be paying more tax? People earning 100k pay a high percentage of their income as tax than Sunak did with his millions. And yet the chancellor came out in a living crisis and has introduced a new tax evasion loophole through pensions to once again allow the rich to avoid tax. I'd recommend looking into the amount of corporation tax Amazon, owned by one of the world's richest men, has been paying in the UK. The solution isn't necessarily making the rich pay more. It's stopping them from avoiding tax through an array of loopholes which this government allows.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 11:42:25 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. You mean like they do in comparable northern European countries where they also have better public services and happier people. By complete contrast with the US. Weird, isn't it
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 11:45:30 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. Why should the wealthy not be paying more tax? People earning 100k pay a high percentage of their income as tax than Sunak did with his millions. And yet the chancellor came out in a living crisis and has introduced a new tax evasion loophole through taxes to once again allow the rich to avoid tax. I'd recommend looking into the amount of corporation tax Amazon, owned by one of the world's richest men, has been paying in the UK. The solution isn't necessarily making the rich pay more. It's stopping them from avoiding tax through an array of loopholes which this government allows. This makes for interesting reading: www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-need-earn-live-comfortably-where/#:~:text=The%20average%20wage%20that%20was,National%20Statistics%20(ONS)%20figures. assuming it's accessible and not behind a pay wall. Roughly £40k to £50k a year to live 'comfortably'. There are a lot of people by that assessment who could quite comfortably contribute a bit more to making the country a better place for everyone.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 11:46:31 GMT
Also for what it's worth I would happily pay more tax for functioning public services. But closing loopholes for the wealthy is a bigger priority first.
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 29, 2023 13:24:05 GMT
Rishi not declaring something yet again? It's almost like he has form for this with not declaring his US green card, his family links with Infosys (benefitting from IR35 and and still operating in Russia), nor his wife's grab of bounce back loans before folding the companies that had them, not paying them back ... hmmmm
he's a snake
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Post by phileetin on Mar 29, 2023 13:49:58 GMT
had mri scan last week , i've got ct scan tomorrow. consultant rang yesterday and said i shouldn't have had mri scan somebody else has got same name . it appears to me that nhs is just inefficient and wasteful.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 14:21:24 GMT
had mri scan last week , i've got ct scan tomorrow. consultant rang yesterday and said i shouldn't have had mri scan somebody else has got same name . it appears to me that nhs is just inefficient and wasteful. I think it's very much a post code lottery tbh as well mate. Some people have great GPs where you can get through easily and they take you seriously. Others have GPs which take an hour to get through to and dismiss you with antibiotics instead. Hope the scans went well.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 29, 2023 15:18:31 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 29, 2023 15:34:17 GMT
Go on Yvette!
Jenrick has to be one of the most irritating MP's out there. Just got that fat, posh boy arrogance that make your blood boil.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 29, 2023 15:36:24 GMT
It's like some of the pedantic conversations that go on here at times.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 15:44:06 GMT
Shamelessly nicked from Paul's post above. This should be on every billboard in the country come election time. Cut out all the deflectionary shite about boats, trans stuff, woke bollocks, but they're all the same etc etc. If you ever need to know what is the difference between the two main parties and just what each thinks of ordinary people, remind yourself of this.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 15:51:19 GMT
Go on Yvette! Jenrick has to be one of the most irritating MP's out there. Just got that fat, posh boy arrogance that make your blood boil. It is quite a strange response, after listening to Cooper reel off a number of items that Labour would have done, including amendments that got voted down, to then say that Labour has no plan...just bizarre.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2023 16:08:06 GMT
Go on Yvette! Jenrick has to be one of the most irritating MP's out there. Just got that fat, posh boy arrogance that make your blood boil.
This is the legacy of the Johnson/Cummings Brexit campaign.
The present government doesn't believe that running a country means that you have to put in the hard yards and come with actual policies in order to do so.
Just like they did in the Brexit campaign, they believe, that so long as they can come up with three word slogans and front page headlines, it doesn't matter that there isn't actually any substance to those headlines, they can literally say whatever they jolly well like and get away with it.
The big difference between running a country and running a Brexit campaign, is that the here and now actually does matter.
With Brexit, it was all about something that was going to happen in the future, so they could literally get away with saying any old shit because they weren't going to be held to account for those commitments. They seem to believe that because that approach 'worked' with the public for Brexit, they can then get away with doing the same, when it comes to running the country.
They can't.
The Dominic Cummings 'focus group' method of governance, where you spend more time working out ways to gaslight the public, rather than spending time on working out actual policies, is destroying this country and the people 'running' it have become lazy and unprincipled (Johnson taught them well).
Cooper has just spent several minutes there detailing an actual plan to deal with the crisis and Jenrick thinks it's perfectly acceptable to stand up and (rather than debate the proposals) flippantly suggest, that "it's clear that Labour haven't got a plan" because he knows that that soundbite will probably make the News at Ten and anything beyond that (like dealing with the actual issue) is totally irrelevant.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 16:09:20 GMT
Go on Yvette! Jenrick has to be one of the most irritating MP's out there. Just got that fat, posh boy arrogance that make your blood boil. Have to say it wasn't my proudest wank but my god that woman has a way with words.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 16:19:11 GMT
Quite liked this one from Rayner today at PMQ's too
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 29, 2023 16:35:02 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. Personally, I think the rich should foot the bill. Why is it fair that I pay a much higher proportion of my income to the tax man than Rishi Sunak does, when he is immeasurably wealthier than I am!? At least make the rich pay as much tax as I have to proportionally, and then see what more is needed.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 16:47:31 GMT
And just a side note. While I am a fan of some of the speech Yvette has made in recent weeks.
Let's not forget she is very much part of the Labour right and also has blood on her hands too.
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Post by henry on Mar 29, 2023 16:56:00 GMT
Everyone needs to pay a bit more tax if we want the NHS to function as it should. It's no use grumbling about UK taxation being highest it's been since the 1950s when you have the average person living more than a decade longer. The Conservatives will of course say that improved efficiency is the key, whilst Labour will expect the 'rich' to foot the bill. Neither is sufficient in reality. I already pay enough fucking tax, thanks but no thanks.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 17:24:44 GMT
Go on Yvette! Jenrick has to be one of the most irritating MP's out there. Just got that fat, posh boy arrogance that make your blood boil.
This is the legacy of the Johnson/Cummings Brexit campaign.
The present government doesn't believe that running a country means that you have to put in the hard yards and come with actual policies in order to do so.
Just like they did in the Brexit campaign, they believe, that so long as they can come up with three word slogans and front page headlines, it doesn't matter that there isn't actually any substance to those headlines, they can literally say whatever they jolly well like and get away with it.
The big difference between running a country and running a Brexit campaign, is that the here and now actually does matter.
With Brexit, it was all about something that was going to happen in the future, so they could literally get away with saying any old shit because they weren't going to be held to account for those commitments. They seem to believe that because that approach 'worked' with the public for Brexit, they can then get away with doing the same, when it comes to running the country.
They can't.
The Dominic Cummings 'focus group' method of governance, where you spend more time working out ways to gaslight the public, rather than spending time on working out actual policies, is destroying this country and the people 'running' it have become lazy and unprincipled (Johnson taught them well).
Cooper has just spent several minutes there detailing an actual plan to deal with the crisis and Jenrick thinks it's perfectly acceptable to stand up and (rather than debate the proposals) flippantly suggest, that "it's clear that Labour haven't got a plan" because he knows that that soundbite will probably make the News at Ten and anything beyond that (like dealing with the actual issue) is totally irrelevant.
To be honest though, Paul, there are quite a few million people who'll quite happily swallow all this stuff, the three word slogans, the lack of any details thereafter, the same approach over and over because it works, sadly. The govt knows that there are plenty of people, the majority in fact, who don't have any interest in or awareness of politics or the news, we have several on here for example, and that's why the government adopts this superficial soundbite approach as that kind of depth is as far as these people will ever go in thinking about it.
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Post by henry on Mar 29, 2023 17:33:47 GMT
This is the legacy of the Johnson/Cummings Brexit campaign. The present government doesn't believe that running a country means that you have to put in the hard yards and come with actual policies in order to do so. Just like they did in the Brexit campaign, they believe, that so long as they can come up with three word slogans and front page headlines, it doesn't matter that there isn't actually any substance to those headlines, they can literally say whatever they jolly well like and get away with it. The big difference between running a country and running a Brexit campaign, is that the here and now actually does matter. With Brexit, it was all about something that was going to happen in the future, so they could literally get away with saying any old shit because they weren't going to be held to account for those commitments. They seem to believe that because that approach 'worked' with the public for Brexit, they can then get away with doing the same, when it comes to running the country. They can't. The Dominic Cummings 'focus group' method of governance, where you spend more time working out ways to gaslight the public, rather than spending time on working out actual policies, is destroying this country and the people 'running' it have become lazy and unprincipled (Johnson taught them well).
Cooper has just spent several minutes there detailing an actual plan to deal with the crisis and Jenrick thinks it's perfectly acceptable to stand up and (rather than debate the proposals) flippantly suggest, that "it's clear that Labour haven't got a plan" because he knows that that soundbite will probably make the News at Ten and anything beyond that (like dealing with the actual issue) is totally irrelevant.
To be honest though, Paul, there are quite a few million people who'll quite happily swallow all this stuff, the three word slogans, the lack of any details thereafter, the same approach over and over because it works, sadly. The govt knows that there are plenty of people, the majority in fact, who don't have any interest in or awareness of politics or the news, we have several on here for example, and that's why the government adopts this superficial soundbite approach as that kind of depth is as far as these people will ever go in thinking about it. Like.... Education, Education, Education.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2023 17:52:13 GMT
This is the legacy of the Johnson/Cummings Brexit campaign.
The present government doesn't believe that running a country means that you have to put in the hard yards and come with actual policies in order to do so.
Just like they did in the Brexit campaign, they believe, that so long as they can come up with three word slogans and front page headlines, it doesn't matter that there isn't actually any substance to those headlines, they can literally say whatever they jolly well like and get away with it.
The big difference between running a country and running a Brexit campaign, is that the here and now actually does matter.
With Brexit, it was all about something that was going to happen in the future, so they could literally get away with saying any old shit because they weren't going to be held to account for those commitments. They seem to believe that because that approach 'worked' with the public for Brexit, they can then get away with doing the same, when it comes to running the country.
They can't.
The Dominic Cummings 'focus group' method of governance, where you spend more time working out ways to gaslight the public, rather than spending time on working out actual policies, is destroying this country and the people 'running' it have become lazy and unprincipled (Johnson taught them well).
Cooper has just spent several minutes there detailing an actual plan to deal with the crisis and Jenrick thinks it's perfectly acceptable to stand up and (rather than debate the proposals) flippantly suggest, that "it's clear that Labour haven't got a plan" because he knows that that soundbite will probably make the News at Ten and anything beyond that (like dealing with the actual issue) is totally irrelevant.
To be honest though, Paul, there are quite a few million people who'll quite happily swallow all this stuff, the three word slogans, the lack of any details thereafter, the same approach over and over because it works, sadly. The govt knows that there are plenty of people, the majority in fact, who don't have any interest in or awareness of politics or the news, we have several on here for example, and that's why the government adopts this superficial soundbite approach as that kind of depth is as far as these people will ever go in thinking about it.
Quite possibly but the point I was trying to make, is that the present incumbents, believe that this alone is enough to run a country. Previous Tory governments wouldn't have done this.
Just taking Braverman as an example ... the Home Office is in a complete and utter mess, she (following the Johnson/Cummings playbook) seems to believe that a whole load of rhetoric and headline grabbing slogans, is all that running the Home Office amounts to. She doesn't seem to realise, that without any actual, genuine policies of substance, the whole thing comes crashing down, which it is currently doing and will continue to do so.
This lot are charlatans playing at being MP's, rather than acting as MP's ... whenever I see footage of previous Tory cabinets on the TV, I cringe when I think of those individuals currently occupying those seats today, Johnson (along with Brexit) purged the party of anybody of political credibility and it has become nothing more than a runaway train wreck of the right.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2023 18:45:34 GMT
Braverman: Sorry but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules.
AS: But how else could I have got here, there isn't any other alternative?
Braverman: That maybe so but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules.
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Post by gawa on Mar 29, 2023 18:51:58 GMT
Braverman: Sorry but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules. AS: But how else could I have got here, there isn't any other alternative? Braverman: That maybe so but you came on a small boat, you're going to Rwanda, thems the rules. What has Ben Wallace said about it? As a former soldier and defence secretary I imagine he won't be too happy.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 29, 2023 19:14:50 GMT
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