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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 10:07:04 GMT
Polls mean jack shit 2 years away from a GE... Indeed they don't, and it's only 18 months since the Tories were way ahead and doing great in the local elections. Since then though it seems that a sizeable portion (but clearly by no means all) of the electorate have finally woken up. Can only see some terrible developments in the war turning it round for them from here. Even the old trick of changing the leader just has people rolling their eyes as they recognise the options offer nothing for them. The best option for the country now is the collapse of the government and an early general election before the Tories complete their smash-and-grab raid, giving the people the opportunity to wipe as many of these appalling wreckers as possible from the political map. What concerns me most now is that the Tories may already be pricing in electoral defeat. Two years is a long time admittedly but are they really going to go through another lengthy leadership election like the one they've just been through, have a new leader put together a new cabinet and for those new ministers to come up with yet more new policies to try to make it look like they've finally hit upon people who know what they're doing? Also, the view in the parliamentary party must be something along the lines of "the last thing we should do is ask those idiots who make up the membership to choose another leader, look who've they've gone with the last few times". Which makes me think we might be stuck with Truss and Kwarteng until the next election. If they are the liability and as useless as they seem and heading for defeat, what might they do over the next two years to fuck things up for the next government? At the point of no return, I can imagine that they won't give a shit about ordinary people and the country as a whole, if they ever did, it'll be more about how can we hand the next government a whole heap of shit to deal with. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 12, 2022 10:10:55 GMT
I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't a Tory lol. They love breaking records. Immigration is another one.  What's your next fictional story from the daily mail to give us all a giggle? Immigration is probably at an all time high, but we don't really know as when we were in the EU millions of EU citizens came to this country and they didn't need visas. Immigration is very high to fill much needed jobs, otherwise they don't get a work visa, unless they are from Ireland, Gibralta, Hong Kong, etc. Immigration is high because the number of students coming to study in the UK is at an all time record. Immigration is high because lots of people are leaving their homeland to join relatives who live in this country. On the question of race and the fact that we are all immigrants if you go back far enough in your ancestry, I was watching a documentary yesterday on the ancient Britons. It was pointed out that the Romans brought many ethnic groups to this country from all over the Roman Empire. The presenter pointed out that Africans and Syrians arrived on our shores before the "English", I.e. Angles and Saxons. Good post Mr Coke, and alot of things which I didn't take into consideration. I wonder if there is a reliable statistic anywhere which includes those from the EU who didn't need visa's to come over. And also includes UK citizens who similarly would have moved the other way to the EU too. We seem to be struggling to get the immigrants to fill much needed jobs nowadays though? And the students which come over tend to return home after receiving their education. So surely the rise in student visas is more damaging as they're not working to help generate the economy, they're using up much needed housing, utilising our already stretched public services and denying spaces on courses which could be utilised by british nationals. At least those coming to work are contributing and filling a void in much needed jobs as you said. We should also remember that when talking about immigration from the EU. Alot of brexiters who love the tories seem to forget which party it was that joined the EU, the tories. Personally I'm yet to see the benefits from leaving, the extra millions for the NHS every week seems to have done nothing/proven it was a complete lie. So I'd still much rather be in the EU but that's another discussion. The last paragraph is interesting. I was thinking about "identification" last night and I feel in the digital era, less and less people identify as a particular nationality. Well they still do, but it's just one of many "identifications". I feel though with the younger generation which have grown up using the internet and conversing with others online that "nationality" is just one of many ways in which they identify themselves. 50 years ago I'd say the average british person would have alot more in common with another british person and thus the national identity. Nowadays I feel being "british" is just a small part of someones identity and that we probably have alot more in common with our international companions than decades gone by. |
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 12, 2022 10:15:16 GMT
Indeed they don't, and it's only 18 months since the Tories were way ahead and doing great in the local elections. Since then though it seems that a sizeable portion (but clearly by no means all) of the electorate have finally woken up. Can only see some terrible developments in the war turning it round for them from here. Even the old trick of changing the leader just has people rolling their eyes as they recognise the options offer nothing for them. The best option for the country now is the collapse of the government and an early general election before the Tories complete their smash-and-grab raid, giving the people the opportunity to wipe as many of these appalling wreckers as possible from the political map. What concerns me most now is that the Tories may already be pricing in electoral defeat. Two years is a long time admittedly but are they really going to go through another lengthy leadership election like the one they've just been through, have a new leader put together a new cabinet and for those new ministers to come up with yet more new policies to try to make it look like they've finally hit upon people who know what they're doing? Also, the view in the parliamentary party must be something along the lines of "the last thing we should do is ask those idiots who make up the membership to choose another leader, look who've they've gone with the last few times". Which makes me think we might be stuck with Truss and Kwarteng until the next election. If they are the liability and as useless as they seem and heading for defeat, what might they do over the next two years to fuck things up for the next government? At the point of no return, I can imagine that they won't give a shit about ordinary people and the country as a whole, if they ever did, it'll be more about how can we hand the next government a whole heap of shit to deal with. No doubt enriching themselves and their sponsors in the process. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 10:16:22 GMT
Indeed they don't, and it's only 18 months since the Tories were way ahead and doing great in the local elections. Since then though it seems that a sizeable portion (but clearly by no means all) of the electorate have finally woken up. Can only see some terrible developments in the war turning it round for them from here. Even the old trick of changing the leader just has people rolling their eyes as they recognise the options offer nothing for them. The best option for the country now is the collapse of the government and an early general election before the Tories complete their smash-and-grab raid, giving the people the opportunity to wipe as many of these appalling wreckers as possible from the political map. What concerns me most now is that the Tories may already be pricing in electoral defeat. Two years is a long time admittedly but are they really going to go through another lengthy leadership election like the one they've just been through, have a new leader put together a new cabinet and for those new ministers to come up with yet more new policies to try to make it look like they've finally hit upon people who know what they're doing? Also, the view in the parliamentary party must be something along the lines of "the last thing we should do is ask those idiots who make up the membership to choose another leader, look who've they've gone with the last few times". Which makes me think we might be stuck with Truss and Kwarteng until the next election. If they are the liability and as useless as they seem and heading for defeat, what might they do over the next two years to fuck things up for the next government? At the point of no return, I can imagine that they won't give a shit about ordinary people and the country as a whole, if they ever did, it'll be more about how can we hand the next government a whole heap of shit to deal with. i didn't think there could be another another tory vote for 12 months? |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 10:22:30 GMT
What concerns me most now is that the Tories may already be pricing in electoral defeat. Two years is a long time admittedly but are they really going to go through another lengthy leadership election like the one they've just been through, have a new leader put together a new cabinet and for those new ministers to come up with yet more new policies to try to make it look like they've finally hit upon people who know what they're doing? Also, the view in the parliamentary party must be something along the lines of "the last thing we should do is ask those idiots who make up the membership to choose another leader, look who've they've gone with the last few times". Which makes me think we might be stuck with Truss and Kwarteng until the next election. If they are the liability and as useless as they seem and heading for defeat, what might they do over the next two years to fuck things up for the next government? At the point of no return, I can imagine that they won't give a shit about ordinary people and the country as a whole, if they ever did, it'll be more about how can we hand the next government a whole heap of shit to deal with. i didn't think there could be another another tory vote for 12 months? The 1922 can change the rules to allow another one. There are 1922 elections due soon, so watch this space! I have to confess to a sneaking admiration for Rees-Mogg, his chutzpah is something to behold. I'll put money on him pissing himself laughing as soon as he's off air/out of shot at the nonsense he's so good at coming out with! www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-63228024 |
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 12, 2022 10:59:24 GMT
Immigration is probably at an all time high, but we don't really know as when we were in the EU millions of EU citizens came to this country and they didn't need visas. Immigration is very high to fill much needed jobs, otherwise they don't get a work visa, unless they are from Ireland, Gibralta, Hong Kong, etc. Immigration is high because the number of students coming to study in the UK is at an all time record. Immigration is high because lots of people are leaving their homeland to join relatives who live in this country. On the question of race and the fact that we are all immigrants if you go back far enough in your ancestry, I was watching a documentary yesterday on the ancient Britons. It was pointed out that the Romans brought many ethnic groups to this country from all over the Roman Empire. The presenter pointed out that Africans and Syrians arrived on our shores before the "English", I.e. Angles and Saxons. Good post Mr Coke, and alot of things which I didn't take into consideration. I wonder if there is a reliable statistic anywhere which includes those from the EU who didn't need visa's to come over. And also includes UK citizens who similarly would have moved the other way to the EU too. We seem to be struggling to get the immigrants to fill much needed jobs nowadays though? And the students which come over tend to return home after receiving their education. So surely the rise in student visas is more damaging as they're not working to help generate the economy, they're using up much needed housing, utilising our already stretched public services and denying spaces on courses which could be utilised by british nationals. At least those coming to work are contributing and filling a void in much needed jobs as you said. We should also remember that when talking about immigration from the EU. Alot of brexiters who love the tories seem to forget which party it was that joined the EU, the tories. Personally I'm yet to see the benefits from leaving, the extra millions for the NHS every week seems to have done nothing/proven it was a complete lie. So I'd still much rather be in the EU but that's another discussion. The last paragraph is interesting. I was thinking about "identification" last night and I feel in the digital era, less and less people identify as a particular nationality. Well they still do, but it's just one of many "identifications". I feel though with the younger generation which have grown up using the internet and conversing with others online that "nationality" is just one of many ways in which they identify themselves. 50 years ago I'd say the average british person would have alot more in common with another british person and thus the national identity. Nowadays I feel being "british" is just a small part of someones identity and that we probably have alot more in common with our international companions than decades gone by. This is a bit old and pre pandemic and Brexit. Students includes nurses, doctors, etc. who come to train. fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-international-students-leave-after-studying-uk/The difficulty of filling vacant jobs is a common post pandemic feature across the whole of the OECD economies. www.oecd.org/employment-outlook/2022/ |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 12:24:34 GMT
I don't think the outcome below is at all likely, but if it did it'd be bye-bye Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Graham Brady, Conor Burns, Iain Duncan Smith, Kwasi Kwarteng, Nadine Dorries, John Redwood, Therese Coffey, Matt Hancock, Sajid Javid, Robert Jenrick, David Davis, Chris Grayling, Esther McVey and Dominic Raab amongst many more. Reason enough for anyone to vote Labour, surely...  www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 13:27:17 GMT
i didn't think there could be another another tory vote for 12 months? The 1922 can change the rules to allow another one. There are 1922 elections due soon, so watch this space! I have to confess to a sneaking admiration for Rees-Mogg, his chutzpah is something to behold. I'll put money on him pissing himself laughing as soon as he's off air/out of shot at the nonsense he's so good at coming out with! www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-63228024so basically, there are no real rules, they can do what they want when they, citing any event as unique, and therefore can change the leader again? the tories, ffs. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 14:24:03 GMT
i understand how James O'Brian can wind people up, but if you watch this short video, in this instance, it does help explain the insanity of Truss And Kwasi's mini budget.
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 12, 2022 14:27:09 GMT
Just a reminder torie is an Irish slang for the conservative party and means thief very apt I think
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 12, 2022 15:25:48 GMT
i understand how James O'Brian can wind people up, but if you watch this short video, in this instance, it does help explain the insanity of Truss And Kwasi's mini budget. I made this exact same point to the missus whilst we were watching PMQ's earlier. I was utterly incredulous, screaming at the TV for Starmer to pull her up on it but it was an opportunity missed, sadly. I cant believe the media (with the exception of O'Brien it would seem) have let it go too. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 12, 2022 16:14:01 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/ |
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Post by Gob Bluth on Oct 12, 2022 16:27:20 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/Is she having a go at her parents? Braverman was born to Christie and Uma Fernandes (née Mootien-Pillay),[5] both of Indian origin,[6][7] who emigrated to Britain in the 1960s from Kenya and Mauritius respectively. Her mother, of Hindu Tamil Mauritian descent, was a nurse and a councillor in Brent.[7] Her father, of Goan ancestry (who formerly was an Indian in Kenya),[8] worked for a housing association.[9] Braverman is the niece of Mahen Kundasamy, former Mauritian High Commissioner to London.[5][10] |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 16:55:35 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/What did she say? "It's my dream to shove over-staying Indians onto a flight to Rwanda". Can see how that might not have gone down too well... |
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Post by thevoid on Oct 12, 2022 16:59:36 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/She's a fucking car crash! |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 16:59:51 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/Is she having a go at her parents? Braverman was born to Christie and Uma Fernandes (née Mootien-Pillay),[5] both of Indian origin,[6][7] who emigrated to Britain in the 1960s from Kenya and Mauritius respectively. Her mother, of Hindu Tamil Mauritian descent, was a nurse and a councillor in Brent.[7] Her father, of Goan ancestry (who formerly was an Indian in Kenya),[8] worked for a housing association.[9] Braverman is the niece of Mahen Kundasamy, former Mauritian High Commissioner to London.[5][10] I don't know what it is about the sons and daughters of immigrants as politicians but they often seem almost pathologically obsessed with being ultra-tough towards subsequent immigrants. Do they think this will somehow endear them more to native Britons and "make-up" for the fact that they're descendants of immigrants themselves? If so, two things. First, it won't. Second, you just look a massive and ungrateful hypocrite. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 12, 2022 17:00:03 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/What did she say? "It's my dream to shove over-staying Indians onto a flight to Rwanda". Can see how that might not have gone down too well... It was her keynote speech at their Conference, I said at the time, that if a white MP had made exactly the same speech they probably would have received some backlash for it. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 12, 2022 17:02:05 GMT
What did she say? "It's my dream to shove over-staying Indians onto a flight to Rwanda". Can see how that might not have gone down too well... It was her keynote speech at their Conference, I said at the time, that if a white MP had made exactly the same speech they probably would have received some backlash for it. You may just have answered my point in the post directly above yours! |
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Post by yeswilko on Oct 12, 2022 17:29:45 GMT
Home Secretary Suella Bravernan’s claim that Indian migrants are the largest group who “overstay” their welcome in the UK could derail Britain’s post-Brexit trade deal with New Delhi. Indian ministers are said to be furious with her remarks as the agreement is reportedly “on the verge of collapse”. A source in Delhi told the Times they were “shocked and disappointed” by the remarks, branding them disrespectful, while a government source said it had set the relationship a “step back”. “There’s still a lot of goodwill but if certain individuals are still embedded in the government it will paralyse the talks”. www.cityam.com/post-brexit-deal-with-india-could-be-derailed-over-bravermans-disrespectful-migrant-comments/Most normal and pleasant folk thought the last home secretary was a vile individual.. this one seems worse. |
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Post by thewonderstuff on Oct 12, 2022 17:42:13 GMT
The 1922 went well
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 12, 2022 18:05:31 GMT
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Post by thewonderstuff on Oct 12, 2022 18:11:15 GMT
Pity these aren't televised! I wonder if letters are still going in regardless of the rules |
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Post by thewonderstuff on Oct 12, 2022 18:17:11 GMT
The Minister for The Workhouse has been out 'reassuring' the markets again. 🙄
Operation undermine the OBR already in place. They are willing to drive off the cliff without even tapping the break it would seem.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 12, 2022 18:17:16 GMT
One of the 1922 needs to come out and be honest about the car crash it has been with Truss and Kwarteng and call for them to leave.
Sometimes it’s better just to cut the losses early on than try and persevere.
Feels a bit like us with Nathan Jones…
… but he even had god on his side…
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 12, 2022 18:19:14 GMT
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 12, 2022 18:37:25 GMT
One of the 1922 needs to come out and be honest about the car crash it has been with Truss and Kwarteng and call for them to leave. Sometimes it’s better just to cut the losses early on than try and persevere. Feels a bit like us with Nathan Jones… … but he even had god on his side… 'Come out and be honest' 😅 More chance of us winning the F.A. Cup. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 12, 2022 18:42:29 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 12, 2022 18:48:56 GMT
The Minister for The Workhouse has been out 'reassuring' the markets again. 🙄 Operation undermine the OBR already in place. They are willing to drive off the cliff without even tapping the break it would seem. So he's essentially saying to the OBR, report what we want you to report or we'll fire you? Who the fuck do they think they are? |
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 12, 2022 19:03:03 GMT
You wonder if even Liz is backing herself at this point?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 19:33:11 GMT
Completely and utterly untenable. General Election is needed and fast.
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