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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 11, 2022 7:47:48 GMT
This thread should be renamed You could always take your ball home... |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 11, 2022 7:54:36 GMT
Corruption still at the heart of government I see |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 11, 2022 8:00:18 GMT
This thread should be renamed What to corrupt government corrupt party 😁😁 Or .. I can never trust the Tories again thread 😁😁😁 .ot I was an idiot to vote Tory they've ripped me off 1st 😁😁😁 |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 11, 2022 8:02:27 GMT
If you want to grow the economy, parents (let’s face it, this impacts mums far more than dads who still do less childcare) need to be able to afford to work. Cheaper childcare which joins up with the end of maternity leave and we will have more equality, and more mums able to work which boosts their careers. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/11/uk-childcare-collapse-mothers-home-costs-brexitWidening paternity leave so it last longer and pays more would also help families, children and general equality. |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 11, 2022 8:04:31 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Oct 11, 2022 8:45:18 GMT
This thread should be renamed You could always take your ball home... 😂 I bet he wishes he could. He'll be gone soon, is he the last one manning the barricades? On holiday, haven't been taking much notice. |
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Post by noustie on Oct 11, 2022 8:57:22 GMT
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Post by knype on Oct 11, 2022 9:10:39 GMT
This thread should be renamed You could always take your ball home... No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 11, 2022 9:24:24 GMT
You could always take your ball home... No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... Their begging bowls are nearly empty... |
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 11, 2022 9:27:10 GMT
Because the right, and their client media, put an awful lot of work into getting ordinary working class people like phileetin to blame other ordinary working class people, along with migrants, asylum seekers, benefits fraudsters etc for all the woes of the country. Alongside that, they work equally hard at making sure ordinary working class people look up to the royals, the landed gentry and the rich and don't question too hard whether things could actually be done more fairly, more equitably. In the end though it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it whether you agree with it or not without getting a hard time. Right or wrongly I think there’s general perceptions of the 2 parties Tories - Give to the rich and take from the poor Labour - Take from the rich and give to the poor and those that don’t work and can. What we need is a party that gives to the hard working whether it’s physical and those that make money for others to benefit. Symplistic i guess. If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 11, 2022 9:29:24 GMT
In the end though it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it whether you agree with it or not without getting a hard time. Right or wrongly I think there’s general perceptions of the 2 parties Tories - Give to the rich and take from the poor Labour - Take from the rich and give to the poor and those that don’t work and can. What we need is a party that gives to the hard working whether it’s physical and those that make money for others to benefit. Symplistic i guess. If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. Good post. I like to think you can be angry with both. |
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Post by noustie on Oct 11, 2022 9:49:30 GMT
In the end though it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it whether you agree with it or not without getting a hard time. Right or wrongly I think there’s general perceptions of the 2 parties Tories - Give to the rich and take from the poor Labour - Take from the rich and give to the poor and those that don’t work and can. What we need is a party that gives to the hard working whether it’s physical and those that make money for others to benefit. Symplistic i guess. If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. An erroneous belief that purely natural ability and graft is all that is required to achieve one and avoid the other? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 10:49:10 GMT
In the end though it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it whether you agree with it or not without getting a hard time. Right or wrongly I think there’s general perceptions of the 2 parties Tories - Give to the rich and take from the poor Labour - Take from the rich and give to the poor and those that don’t work and can. What we need is a party that gives to the hard working whether it’s physical and those that make money for others to benefit. Symplistic i guess. If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. It seems like there’s more than just the odd one getting into high quality jobs from more humble beginnings. It’s much harder to do so in the UK if you are from a poorer background, but that disparity is nothing compared to what I’ve seen in the US. There’s really not that many ways to resolve public spending on services like education and healthcare either, other than ramping up the high tax rates for everyone even further. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 11, 2022 11:52:48 GMT
In the end though it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it whether you agree with it or not without getting a hard time. Right or wrongly I think there’s general perceptions of the 2 parties Tories - Give to the rich and take from the poor Labour - Take from the rich and give to the poor and those that don’t work and can. What we need is a party that gives to the hard working whether it’s physical and those that make money for others to benefit. Symplistic i guess. If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. Because an awful lot of work goes into making sure those at the bottom have someone else to focus on for the country's woes - migrants, the "woke", asylum seekers, the EU, foreigners generally, strikers, Unions, druggies, the trans lobby, the "sinister green agenda" etc etc instead of wondering whether it's right that the wealth that could make a massive difference to poor health outcomes, poor educational outcomes, poor housing etc is sequestered and controlled by a tiny minority who, by virtue of that wealth, are able to effectively isolate themselves from the consequences of poor health and education provision and housing. If there is one thing the right is brilliant at it's deflecting blame onto someone else. Kwarteng even tried to offload some onto the queen recently simply for dying! |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 11, 2022 12:13:25 GMT
No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... Their begging bowls are nearly empty... There now thinking of going back to dickensian times and rebranding the country Oliver 🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 11, 2022 12:16:49 GMT
If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. Because an awful lot of work goes into making sure those at the bottom have someone else to focus on for the country's woes - migrants, the "woke", asylum seekers, the EU, foreigners generally, strikers, Unions, druggies, the trans lobby, the "sinister green agenda" etc etc instead of wondering whether it's right that the wealth that could make a massive difference to poor health outcomes, poor educational outcomes, poor housing etc is sequestered and controlled by a tiny minority who, by virtue of that wealth, are able to effectively isolate themselves from the consequences of poor health and education provision and housing. If there is one thing the right is brilliant at it's deflecting blame onto someone else. Kwarteng even tried to offload some onto the queen recently simply for dying! Any sort of crime committed by those most needy in society is always a good one, get tough (yet again cos the last time wasn't quite tough enough and the next one will be tougher still probably even though the whole thing is counter productive) on crime you just see if that doesn't solve things 👌 |
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 11, 2022 12:20:19 GMT
If one has an opinion and is prepared to air it in a public forum, it’s there to be challenged. If one doesn’t want that opinion to be given a hard time by those with an alternative view, it’s probably best not to post it. While I don’t expect personal abuse, I do welcome rigorous examination of my opinions, and from time to time I’ve even been persuaded to modify them, and to me, that’s the whole point of joining in. I’m not so naïve as to expect that everyone’s going to enter the debate in the same spirit, but I believe most of us are sufficiently grown-up to handle a bit of opposition. As you’ve identified, the Robin Hood vs Robbin’ Bastards characterisation of left vs right is over-simplified, although the events of the last few weeks do seem to have validated that somewhat. An alternative reading would be that Tories believe that whether you’re rich or poor, you deserve it, while Labour believes in equality of outcome whether or not you deserve it. If we lived in a meritocracy, where people’s success correlated to their hard work, talent and the value of their contribution to the community, I’d have more sympathy for the Tory position. The reality is that we don’t, and while there are always a few interlopers who manage to gatecrash the party (and who’re held up as evidence that ‘anyone can do it’), the game is rigged, and the upper echelons are out of reach to the vast majority that didn’t go to the right school. I understand why people get wound up about ‘shirkers’, but I don’t get why they’re not at least as angry about the freeloaders at the top end of society, and seem perfectly happy to support an institution that exists to help as much as possible the people who already have the ability to help themselves. It seems like there’s more than just the odd one getting into high quality jobs from more humble beginnings. It’s much harder to do so in the UK if you are from a poorer background, but that disparity is nothing compared to what I’ve seen in the US. There’s really not that many ways to resolve public spending on services like education and healthcare either, other than ramping up the high tax rates for everyone even further. The FT article is behind a paywall, so unfortunately I can’t see it. I would be interested in the numbers though. I think there were a couple of generations (Boomers & Gen X) when access to education and booming economies liberated a lot of people. If you were ‘made of the right stuff’, you had chances that your parents / grandparents didn’t. Still not to the extent that inherited privilege would bestow, but things did move in the right direction. In the last couple of decades especially, it seems that we pulled-up the ladder behind us. It’s sad (but not at all surprising) that the ‘Land of Opportunity’ tag doesn’t count for much if you’re from the wrong side of the tracks. It baffles me how much we look to the US as a model for our economy / society. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 11, 2022 12:35:59 GMT
Their begging bowls are nearly empty... There now thinking of going back to dickensian times and rebranding the country Oliver 🤣🤣🤣 Where ?  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 11, 2022 12:56:32 GMT
www.ft.com/content/73a5fe76-d65e-11e5-829b-8564e7528e54It seems like there’s more than just the odd one getting into high quality jobs from more humble beginnings. It’s much harder to do so in the UK if you are from a poorer background, but that disparity is nothing compared to what I’ve seen in the US. There’s really not that many ways to resolve public spending on services like education and healthcare either, other than ramping up the high tax rates for everyone even further. The FT article is behind a paywall, so unfortunately I can’t see it. I would be interested in the numbers though. I think there were a couple of generations (Boomers & Gen X) when access to education and booming economies liberated a lot of people. If you were ‘made of the right stuff’, you had chances that your parents / grandparents didn’t. Still not to the extent that inherited privilege would bestow, but things did move in the right direction. In the last couple of decades especially, it seems that we pulled-up the ladder behind us. It’s sad (but not at all surprising) that the ‘Land of Opportunity’ tag doesn’t count for much if you’re from the wrong side of the tracks. It baffles me how much we look to the US as a model for our economy / society. Indeed, wrong way to look imo. Northern European countries do things much better on the whole. Generally, they pay more tax, have generally better public services, have a mixed private/public ownership model and have happier people. Seems pretty obvious to me that, if the government cares about British people's well-being, we should be looking at those countries to see what it is about them that results in their people being more content than ours. Of course, "if the government cares about British people's well-being" is a large if. |
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 11, 2022 16:15:49 GMT
How many Tories does it take to change a light bulb ?
Depends on who's paying for the light bulb and how much there willing to pay for a lordship erm I mean gold and diamond encrusted lightbulb 😁😁😁
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Post by thevoid on Oct 11, 2022 17:29:39 GMT
How many Tories does it take to change a light bulb ? Depends on who's paying for the light bulb and how much there willing to pay for a lordship erm I mean gold and diamond encrusted lightbulb 😁😁😁 I think Micky Flanagan's job is safe |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 11, 2022 17:36:13 GMT
You could always take your ball home... No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... Typical left? This ain't a left v right thing buddy. This is about a corrupt goverment. If it was left v right then the right wing then the Torys would still have over 50% of people intending to vote for them as per the polls in 2020. Pretty sure that number is below 20% now. This is more crystal glasses (who can see through the corruption) v mugs. And at the minute you're the sports direct one lol |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 11, 2022 17:49:55 GMT
People still defending this shit show 😂😂🤦♂️
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Post by yeswilko on Oct 11, 2022 18:12:31 GMT
No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... Their begging bowls are nearly empty... There's plenty of folk that have never dreamed of claiming a penny in their lives that are worried about the situation at the moment...mr out of touch Dutch. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 11, 2022 18:16:50 GMT
How many Tories does it take to change a light bulb ? Depends on who's paying for the light bulb and how much there willing to pay for a lordship erm I mean gold and diamond encrusted lightbulb 😁😁😁 Why would anyone need to change a light bulb when no-one can afford to have them switched on anyway... |
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Post by knype on Oct 11, 2022 18:40:40 GMT
No fun in that. Typical left, mob handed drive every other views than their own away... Typical left? This ain't a left v right thing buddy. This is about a corrupt goverment. If it was left v right then the right wing then the Torys would still have over 50% of people intending to vote for them as per the polls in 2020. Pretty sure that number is below 20% now. This is more crystal glasses (who can see through the corruption) v mugs. And at the minute you're the sports direct one lol Polls mean jack shit 2 years away from a GE... |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 11, 2022 18:41:14 GMT
How many Tories does it take to change a light bulb ? Depends on who's paying for the light bulb and how much there willing to pay for a lordship erm I mean gold and diamond encrusted lightbulb 😁😁😁 I think Micky Flanagan's job is safe Tumbleweed time! Again…….. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 11, 2022 18:59:03 GMT
Typical left? This ain't a left v right thing buddy. This is about a corrupt goverment. If it was left v right then the right wing then the Torys would still have over 50% of people intending to vote for them as per the polls in 2020. Pretty sure that number is below 20% now. This is more crystal glasses (who can see through the corruption) v mugs. And at the minute you're the sports direct one lol Polls mean jack shit 2 years away from a GE... Well that depends if you base you're vote on a parties actions, performance and policies. Or their name. Those who do the former seem to have deferred. Those who do the latter, like yourself, are looking a bit silly defending the indefensible time and time again. Give me 5 reasons why anyone should be voting tory next election. Bet you can't. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 11, 2022 19:01:02 GMT
Won't be long till there's a u-turn on this Rwanda deal. They're gonna be sending their asylum seekers to the UK instead lol.
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Post by knype on Oct 11, 2022 19:24:47 GMT
Polls mean jack shit 2 years away from a GE... Well that depends if you base you're vote on a parties actions, performance and policies. Or their name. Those who do the former seem to have deferred. Those who do the latter, like yourself, are looking a bit silly defending the indefensible time and time again. Give me 5 reasons why anyone should be voting tory next election. Bet you can't. Dear me, show me where I've defended. Why would I want to give you 5 reasons when I don't give a shite about either party currently |
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