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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 9:06:47 GMT
Lockdowns stopped the nhs completely grinding to a halt. They went on too long because they started too late, shorter lockdowns from implementing them earlier would have been the best of a terrible situation until the vaccine got us out of it. The reality is that we had to have lockdowns according to frontline nhs workers, who I believe more than you. You clearly knew nobody who died or who got seriously ill, or you don’t care. It is a selfish point of view. Covid is largely behind us, so you can stop your nonsense conspiracy theories and move on. We spend less per capita on healthcare than the majority of comparable Western European countries. Had we been spending lots more and had a more prepared NHS, perhaps we would have managed ok without lockdowns. But that’s not our country. Anyway, as we know, brexit will create more long term damage to our economy than covid. Covid isn’t the time when insolvency was at record levels. That’s now: www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/07/company-insolvencies-hit-13-year-high-in-england-and-walesOne of my favorite posts ever. Mainly because of how dumb it is. Remainer blames brexit for economic disaster, casually dismissing the fact that government shut society down for 18 months. A shut down that involved locking people in there home, banning businesses from trading and allowing people out once a day for a one hour walk 😂😂 Come on mate, even you can't believe that kind of shit. If you think brexit is more a reason for the global economical catastrophe then you're even more indoctrinated than I thought. P.s this whole "we locked down too late" bollocks is just ill informed garbage with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Even your hard line lockdown fanatical government scientists don't put that line out anymore. Sweden and Florida were and still are just fine without lockdowns. The whole "NHS would have collapsed" line is totally absurd too. Many within the NHS didn't agree with government lockdown policy and in case you weren't aware, it's practically collapsed even with the locking up of a nation. It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 9:24:27 GMT
One of my favorite posts ever. Mainly because of how dumb it is. Remainer blames brexit for economic disaster, casually dismissing the fact that government shut society down for 18 months. A shut down that involved locking people in there home, banning businesses from trading and allowing people out once a day for a one hour walk 😂😂 Come on mate, even you can't believe that kind of shit. If you think brexit is more a reason for the global economical catastrophe then you're even more indoctrinated than I thought. P.s this whole "we locked down too late" bollocks is just ill informed garbage with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Even your hard line lockdown fanatical government scientists don't put that line out anymore. Sweden and Florida were and still are just fine without lockdowns. The whole "NHS would have collapsed" line is totally absurd too. Many within the NHS didn't agree with government lockdown policy and in case you weren't aware, it's practically collapsed even with the locking up of a nation. It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns. That's not true at all, despite what Boris kept saying, we weren't the first nation out of lockdown and doesn't factor in that we were in lockdown while many were not. I was in Dubai for the second lockdown and it was as open as its ever been. Besides, the global economy is in a dreadful state, not just the UK. I'm sure you'd love to blame the grisly state of Sri Lanka's economy on brexit 😊 The NHS became the NCS. A largely non fatal virus with a 99%+ survival rate become the sole focus of our floundering health service. The NHS isn't totally shit because of underfunding. It's totally shit because of rank bad mismanagement, funding the wrong areas (ie hospitals having two CEO's and three diversity offers while having a GP shortage) and a hideous fear within the establishment of going anywhere near reforming it. The deification of this failing health service that no other nation in the world models itself on, is one of the weirdest and most mystifying things in recent British history. Try telling those cancer patients on the waiting list of 10 million that our "covid first" NHS strategy worked. It's a national scandal.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 9:28:57 GMT
Please keep your Covid related nonsense to that thread. There are pages and pages of posters reinforcing their own belief that Covid was some kind of "never-ending, totalitarian, population controlling, dystopian, fascist, fake pandemic" in which every single government and media outlet were complicit. If that's what they want to belief then that's their safe space to do so and the rest of us can just quietly ignore them, with the odd wry chuckle at the madness of it all. Thanks. Translates as: "I know I got it horribly wrong about supporting lockdowns, I'm deeply embarrassed, don't want to talk about it and would much rather wank off over Labour on here" 😆 Nice try, but the Covid thread is really the place for the tinfoil hatters, I'd have thought?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 9:34:13 GMT
Translates as: "I know I got it horribly wrong about supporting lockdowns, I'm deeply embarrassed, don't want to talk about it and would much rather wank off over Labour on here" 😆 Nice try, but the Covid thread is really the place for the tinfoil hatters, I'd have thought? It makes a nice break from HLF's tweets I suppose? Plus, given this government were responsible for the catastrophic covid policy, it's probably reasonable to expect it to pop up on the "government" thread from time to time.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 8, 2022 9:36:00 GMT
Lockdowns stopped the nhs completely grinding to a halt. They went on too long because they started too late, shorter lockdowns from implementing them earlier would have been the best of a terrible situation until the vaccine got us out of it. The reality is that we had to have lockdowns according to frontline nhs workers, who I believe more than you. You clearly knew nobody who died or who got seriously ill, or you don’t care. It is a selfish point of view. Covid is largely behind us, so you can stop your nonsense conspiracy theories and move on. We spend less per capita on healthcare than the majority of comparable Western European countries. Had we been spending lots more and had a more prepared NHS, perhaps we would have managed ok without lockdowns. But that’s not our country. Anyway, as we know, brexit will create more long term damage to our economy than covid. Covid isn’t the time when insolvency was at record levels. That’s now: www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/07/company-insolvencies-hit-13-year-high-in-england-and-walesOne of my favorite posts ever. Mainly because of how dumb it is. Remainer blames brexit for economic disaster, casually dismissing the fact that government shut society down for 18 months. A shut down that involved locking people in there home, banning businesses from trading and allowing people out once a day for a one hour walk 😂😂 Come on mate, even you can't believe that kind of shit. If you think brexit is more a reason for the global economical catastrophe then you're even more indoctrinated than I thought. P.s this whole "we locked down too late" bollocks is just ill informed garbage with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Even your hard line lockdown fanatical government scientists don't put that line out anymore. Sweden and Florida were and still are just fine without lockdowns. The whole "NHS would have collapsed" line is totally absurd too. Many within the NHS didn't agree with government lockdown policy and in case you weren't aware, it's practically collapsed even with the locking up of a nation. Attachments:
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 9:37:02 GMT
It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns. That's not true at all, despite what Boris kept saying, we weren't the first nation out of lockdown and doesn't factor in that we were in lockdown while many were not. I was in Dubai for the second lockdown and it was as open as its ever been. Besides, the global economy is in a dreadful state, not just the UK. I'm sure you'd love to blame the grisly state of Sri Lanka's economy on brexit 😊 The NHS became the NCS. A largely non fatal virus with a 99%+ survival rate become the sole focus of our floundering health service. The NHS isn't totally shit because of underfunding. It's totally shit because of rank bad mismanagement, funding the wrong areas (ie hospitals having two CEO's and three diversity offers while having a GP shortage) and a hideous fear within the establishment of going anywhere near reforming it. The deification of this failing health service that no other nation in the world models itself on, is one of the weirdest and most mystifying things in recent British history. Try telling those cancer patients on the waiting list of 10 million that our "covid first" NHS strategy worked. It's a national scandal. We put less money into healthcare than the rest of advanced European economies and we wonder why it isn’t as good. How do you explain the fact our economy still has not recovered to pre pandemic levels and all comparable advanced economies have (Sri Lanka isn’t one of those)? We were locked down longer than France and Germany. Dubai still has strict covid rules for visitors. Either a negative test or vaccine evidence is required. You don’t need that to go France anymore. So Dubai has restrictions still in place.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 9:37:11 GMT
One of my favorite posts ever. Mainly because of how dumb it is. Remainer blames brexit for economic disaster, casually dismissing the fact that government shut society down for 18 months. A shut down that involved locking people in there home, banning businesses from trading and allowing people out once a day for a one hour walk 😂😂 Come on mate, even you can't believe that kind of shit. If you think brexit is more a reason for the global economical catastrophe then you're even more indoctrinated than I thought. P.s this whole "we locked down too late" bollocks is just ill informed garbage with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Even your hard line lockdown fanatical government scientists don't put that line out anymore. Sweden and Florida were and still are just fine without lockdowns. The whole "NHS would have collapsed" line is totally absurd too. Many within the NHS didn't agree with government lockdown policy and in case you weren't aware, it's practically collapsed even with the locking up of a nation. Good question. The likes of Anders Tegnell and Ron DeSantis saw it.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 8, 2022 9:38:45 GMT
Lockdowns stopped the nhs completely grinding to a halt. They went on too long because they started too late, shorter lockdowns from implementing them earlier would have been the best of a terrible situation until the vaccine got us out of it. The reality is that we had to have lockdowns according to frontline nhs workers, who I believe more than you. You clearly knew nobody who died or who got seriously ill, or you don’t care. It is a selfish point of view. Covid is largely behind us, so you can stop your nonsense conspiracy theories and move on.We spend less per capita on healthcare than the majority of comparable Western European countries. Had we been spending lots more and had a more prepared NHS, perhaps we would have managed ok without lockdowns. But that’s not our country. Anyway, as we know, brexit will create more long term damage to our economy than covid. Covid isn’t the time when insolvency was at record levels. That’s now: www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/07/company-insolvencies-hit-13-year-high-in-england-and-walesWhy should people move on ?. People are dying through lack of seeing GP's for 2 years. Do you not think this is a scandal ? 2020 was the year government became untouchable and unaccountable, Lies were told with a shrug of shoulders. Google "10 years of austerity" It will blow your mind...........
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Post by yeokel on Oct 8, 2022 9:43:01 GMT
One of my favorite posts ever. Mainly because of how dumb it is. Remainer blames brexit for economic disaster, casually dismissing the fact that government shut society down for 18 months. A shut down that involved locking people in there home, banning businesses from trading and allowing people out once a day for a one hour walk 😂😂 Come on mate, even you can't believe that kind of shit. If you think brexit is more a reason for the global economical catastrophe then you're even more indoctrinated than I thought. P.s this whole "we locked down too late" bollocks is just ill informed garbage with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Even your hard line lockdown fanatical government scientists don't put that line out anymore. Sweden and Florida were and still are just fine without lockdowns. The whole "NHS would have collapsed" line is totally absurd too. Many within the NHS didn't agree with government lockdown policy and in case you weren't aware, it's practically collapsed even with the locking up of a nation. It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns. “ The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so.” The NHS is on its knees because it has expanded almost uncontrollably and its remit has become far too wide. This country, and its governments, need to look at it from a different angle. Instead of asking “how much money does the NHS need”, we need to ask “what is the NHS for, and what can we, as a nation, afford to pay for it”.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 9:45:47 GMT
It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns. “ The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so.” The NHS is on its knees because it has expanded almost uncontrollably and its remit has become far too wide. This country, and its governments, need to look at it from a different angle. Instead of asking “how much money does the NHS need”, we need to ask “what is the NHS for, and what can we, as a nation, afford to pay for it”. I agree with your last sentence. I’d be a fan of the French system here. But the French pay more per capita on healthcare every year and their healthcare is preventative rather than ignoring things until you must act as we have here.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 8, 2022 9:52:15 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Oct 8, 2022 10:08:38 GMT
That's not true at all, despite what Boris kept saying, we weren't the first nation out of lockdown and doesn't factor in that we were in lockdown while many were not. I was in Dubai for the second lockdown and it was as open as its ever been. Besides, the global economy is in a dreadful state, not just the UK. I'm sure you'd love to blame the grisly state of Sri Lanka's economy on brexit 😊 The NHS became the NCS. A largely non fatal virus with a 99%+ survival rate become the sole focus of our floundering health service. The NHS isn't totally shit because of underfunding. It's totally shit because of rank bad mismanagement, funding the wrong areas (ie hospitals having two CEO's and three diversity offers while having a GP shortage) and a hideous fear within the establishment of going anywhere near reforming it. The deification of this failing health service that no other nation in the world models itself on, is one of the weirdest and most mystifying things in recent British history. Try telling those cancer patients on the waiting list of 10 million that our "covid first" NHS strategy worked. It's a national scandal. We put less money into healthcare than the rest of advanced European economies and we wonder why it isn’t as good. How do you explain the fact our economy still has not recovered to pre pandemic levels and all comparable advanced economies have (Sri Lanka isn’t one of those)? We were locked down longer than France and Germany. Dubai still has strict covid rules for visitors. Either a negative test or vaccine evidence is required. You don’t need that to go France anymore. So Dubai has restrictions still in place. Thailand has just, on October 1st, relaxed mask wearing in shops and on public transport although staff in most of those places are still wearing them. Needed vaccination evidence to get in the country, might have relaxed that now too, not sure.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 8, 2022 10:19:59 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 8, 2022 10:22:25 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 10:23:34 GMT
Nice try, but the Covid thread is really the place for the tinfoil hatters, I'd have thought? It makes a nice break from HLF's tweets I suppose? Plus, given this government were responsible for the catastrophic covid policy, it's probably reasonable to expect it to pop up on the "government" thread from time to time. I agree, but given that Covid discussions (as demonstrated by the Covid thread) nearly always descend into a position taking debate between people who put up with lockdowns because they could see that it was the way to minimise spread, prevent more people dying than already had and would help to prevent overload in the NHS and, on the other side, those who thought (think?) that it was all some kind of fake, totalitarian, never-ending, population-controlling power grab co-ordinated by all governments and all news media across the world, maybe the Covid thread is the better place for it? We'll just end up with two identical threads!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 10:26:24 GMT
The Mail's response has been vigorous and robust, suspiciously so imo. It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out. They could be in the shit here. I imagine Dacre's peerage can't come soon enough for him...
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 10:31:25 GMT
It is you against front line nhs staff on lockdowns. The reason we haven’t recovered economically to pre pandemic levels when the rest of the wealthy parts of the world has is to a large degree down to brexit. If lockdowns are the cause, why is our economy not outperforming comparable nations? We came out of lockdown first remember. Yet still our economy has performed the worst. The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so. If we spent what other advanced western economies spent on healthcare per capita, it would be in a far better situation. France had covid. So did Germany. Their healthcare systems are not in the same dire position as ours now. But we came out of lockdown sooner than both. Explain that one if the reason our healthcare system is creaking is down to covid lockdowns. “ The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so.” The NHS is on its knees because it has expanded almost uncontrollably and its remit has become far too wide. This country, and its governments, need to look at it from a different angle. Instead of asking “how much money does the NHS need”, we need to ask “what is the NHS for, and what can we, as a nation, afford to pay for it”. The answer to the last bit is easy - lots more. Don't let anyone kid you that the fifth/sixth richest country in the world can't afford to run the NHS properly! It's a question of political will and ideology, that's all. Oh, and asking the richest to contribute more of their wealth to do so. Like I said, political will and ideology. What's it for and does the country want to pay for it properly are good questions.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 10:34:48 GMT
The Mail's response has been vigorous and robust, suspiciously so imo. It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out. They could be in the shit here. I imagine Dacre's peerage can't come soon enough for him... As Levison 2 was binned, it would be great for democracy if the Daily Mail and it’s owners were prohibited from being involved in any media (online, print, tv, radio or otherwise) in this country. Paul Dacre should be in prison, not heading to the Lords. Enemies of the people.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 10:39:49 GMT
It makes a nice break from HLF's tweets I suppose? Plus, given this government were responsible for the catastrophic covid policy, it's probably reasonable to expect it to pop up on the "government" thread from time to time. I agree, but given that Covid discussions (as demonstrated by the Covid thread) nearly always descend into a position taking debate between people who put up with lockdowns because they could see that it was the way to minimise spread, prevent more people dying than already had and would help to prevent overload in the NHS and, on the other side, those who thought (think?) that it was all some kind of fake, totalitarian, never-ending, population-controlling power grab co-ordinated by all governments and all news media across the world, maybe the Covid thread is the better place for it? We'll just end up with two identical threads! It's good comedy. "Staunch remainer can't afford food and bills after government shut down economy for two years. Blames brexit" 😂😂
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 10:49:30 GMT
I agree, but given that Covid discussions (as demonstrated by the Covid thread) nearly always descend into a position taking debate between people who put up with lockdowns because they could see that it was the way to minimise spread, prevent more people dying than already had and would help to prevent overload in the NHS and, on the other side, those who thought (think?) that it was all some kind of fake, totalitarian, never-ending, population-controlling power grab co-ordinated by all governments and all news media across the world, maybe the Covid thread is the better place for it? We'll just end up with two identical threads! It's good comedy. "Staunch remainer can't afford food and bills after government shut down economy for two years. Blames brexit" 😂😂 You might think so. I'll stick to what I said over two years ago on the Covid thread in response to all the never-ending, totalitarian, dystopian, fascist power-grab lot, before largely giving up with it - that in two years hence we will be looking back on Covid, glad that all the restrictions were over and life was returning pretty much to normal. Which, not surprisingly, is how it turned out. Like estrangedsonoffaye, probably the best and most knowledgeable poster on the whole Covid thread, someone who clearly knew his medical onions, I also gave up with all the conspiracy tinfoilers and it'd be sad if this thread was similarly hijacked. Anyone who wants to debate Covid can do so on that thread to their hearts' content.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 8, 2022 10:54:07 GMT
Good question. The likes of Anders Tegnell and Ron DeSantis saw it.
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Post by yeokel on Oct 8, 2022 10:54:53 GMT
“ The nhs is on its knees because we have underfunded it significantly in the last decade or so.” The NHS is on its knees because it has expanded almost uncontrollably and its remit has become far too wide. This country, and its governments, need to look at it from a different angle. Instead of asking “how much money does the NHS need”, we need to ask “what is the NHS for, and what can we, as a nation, afford to pay for it”. The answer to the last bit is easy - lots more. Don't let anyone kid you that the fifth/sixth richest country in the world can't afford to run the NHS properly! It's a question of political will and ideology, that's all. Oh, and asking the richest to contribute more of their wealth to do so. Like I said, political will and ideology. What's it for and does the country want to pay for it properly are good questions. You seem to be the one listening to those who claim we are the “fifth/sixth richest country in the world”. We have a close to three trillion pound national debt. £3,000,000,000,000 We are not a rich country by any means and people should stop kidding themselves that we are.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 11:03:06 GMT
I agree, but given that Covid discussions (as demonstrated by the Covid thread) nearly always descend into a position taking debate between people who put up with lockdowns because they could see that it was the way to minimise spread, prevent more people dying than already had and would help to prevent overload in the NHS and, on the other side, those who thought (think?) that it was all some kind of fake, totalitarian, never-ending, population-controlling power grab co-ordinated by all governments and all news media across the world, maybe the Covid thread is the better place for it? We'll just end up with two identical threads! It's good comedy. "Staunch remainer can't afford food and bills after government shut down economy for two years. Blames brexit" 😂😂 Please explain how covid has led to more red tape and costs for businesses exporting to the EU. Please explain why the government is desperately trying to sign any trade deal they can if free trade is not beneficial for us, and please explain why covid meant we had to rip up every trade deal we were a party to (coincidently) when the brexit transition period ended Please explain how covid impacts immigration law, and has led to crops rotting in fields unpicked. And, for the 3rd time, will you explain why everyone else who is comparable’s economies have recovered from pre oandemoc levels, except for ours? Also, you are blaming the cost of living crisis on covid. It has played a part of course. But energy costs have spiralled more because of the war than any other reason. As our government failed to invest in green energy (which I know you also vehemently oppose) we are stuck with ridiculously high energy costs and we are reliant on oil and gas. You say all parties are the same, but had the green party been running our government for the past decade rather than the tories, we would be laughing at the rest of the world with very low energy costs and barely any inflation compared woth everyone else.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 11:04:37 GMT
It's good comedy. "Staunch remainer can't afford food and bills after government shut down economy for two years. Blames brexit" 😂😂 You might think so. I'll stick to what I said over two years ago on the Covid thread in response to all the never-ending, totalitarian, dystopian, fascist power-grab lot, before largely giving up with it - that in two years hence we will be looking back on Covid, glad that all the restrictions were over and life was returning pretty much to normal. Which, not surprisingly, is how it turned out. Like estrangedsonoffaye, probably the best and most knowledgeable poster on the whole Covid thread, someone who clearly knew his medical onions, I also gave up with all the conspiracy tinfoilers and it'd be sad if this thread was similarly hijacked. Anyone who wants to debate Covid can do so on that thread to their hearts' content. Thanks but I think admin will decide on what is and isn't allowed to be debated 😉 In all seriousness though the hypocrisy is outrageous. As if this thread hasn't already been hijacked 😂 You're more than happy to discuss in depth how shit the current ruling party is (which we all know already) yet when it comes to discussing the most economically damaging, contentious and relevant policy of this government, you don't seem interested. Is it because it makes you feel uncomfortable knowing you supported the lockdown policy? I didn't say you loved it, but you supported it. You also seem happy to bring up Brexit on just about every thread going, can't that remain in the brexit thread? Hypocrisy at its finest 😊
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 8, 2022 11:07:48 GMT
It's good comedy. "Staunch remainer can't afford food and bills after government shut down economy for two years. Blames brexit" 😂😂 Please explain how covid has led to more red tape and costs for businesses exporting to the EU. Please explain why the government is desperately trying to sign any trade deal they can if free trade is not beneficial for us, and please explain why covid meant we had to rip up every trade deal we were a party to (coincidently) when the brexit transition period ended Please explain how covid impacts immigration law, and has led to crops rotting in fields unpicked. And, for the 3rd time, will you explain why everyone else who is comparable’s economies have recovered from pre oandemoc levels, except for ours? Oggy my good man, I love you but give it a rest. We left the EU for godsake 😂 P.s other economies absolutely aren't in a better state than ours. Some are and some aren't. Europe is in as much, if not more chaos than us - Particularly given their dependencies on Russia which will make for an interesting winter ahead.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 11:08:29 GMT
The answer to the last bit is easy - lots more. Don't let anyone kid you that the fifth/sixth richest country in the world can't afford to run the NHS properly! It's a question of political will and ideology, that's all. Oh, and asking the richest to contribute more of their wealth to do so. Like I said, political will and ideology. What's it for and does the country want to pay for it properly are good questions. You seem to be the one listening to those who claim we are the “fifth/sixth richest country in the world”. We have a close to three trillion pound national debt. £3,000,000,000,000 We are not a rich country by any means and people should stop kidding themselves that we are. That's because we are... globalpeoservices.com/top-15-countries-by-gdp-in-2022/Our annual GDP is about £2tn. And then there is individual wealth to account for too. If we wanted to sort out this country's problems we could. When I say "we" I mean everyone, the government, the electorate, everyone. For reasons I can never really fathom, there doesn't seem to be much collective will to do so. Perhaps people just don't believe that it's possible, or that we have the money. We do, it's just that a tiny proportion of people own and control an awful lot of it and don't want to share, and the government and electorate don't seem to want to enact legislation which would re-distribute enough of that wealth to tackle the country's problems. They're not insurmountable, just little or no collective will to deal with them in a meaningful way.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 11:08:29 GMT
You might think so. I'll stick to what I said over two years ago on the Covid thread in response to all the never-ending, totalitarian, dystopian, fascist power-grab lot, before largely giving up with it - that in two years hence we will be looking back on Covid, glad that all the restrictions were over and life was returning pretty much to normal. Which, not surprisingly, is how it turned out. Like estrangedsonoffaye, probably the best and most knowledgeable poster on the whole Covid thread, someone who clearly knew his medical onions, I also gave up with all the conspiracy tinfoilers and it'd be sad if this thread was similarly hijacked. Anyone who wants to debate Covid can do so on that thread to their hearts' content. Thanks but I think admin will decide on what is and isn't allowed to be debated 😉 In all seriousness though the hypocrisy outrageous. As if this thread hasn't already been hijacked 😂 You're more than happy to discuss in depth how shit the current ruling party is (which we all know already) yet when it comes to discussing the most economically damaging, contentious and relevant policy of this government, you don't seem interested. Is it because it makes you feel uncomfortable knowing you supported the lockdown policy? I didn't say you loved it, but you supported it. You also seem happy to bring up Brexit on just about every thread going, can't that remain in the brexit thread? Hypocrisy at its finest 😊 Brexit is the most economically damaging and contentious policy by this government.
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Post by lordb on Oct 8, 2022 11:09:45 GMT
That will go down well she has driven a huge wedge between her supporters and everyone else in the Tory party They will be itching to stick the knife in, going to be pretty nasty when it happens and it won't be long
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 8, 2022 11:12:07 GMT
Please explain how covid has led to more red tape and costs for businesses exporting to the EU. Please explain why the government is desperately trying to sign any trade deal they can if free trade is not beneficial for us, and please explain why covid meant we had to rip up every trade deal we were a party to (coincidently) when the brexit transition period ended Please explain how covid impacts immigration law, and has led to crops rotting in fields unpicked. And, for the 3rd time, will you explain why everyone else who is comparable’s economies have recovered from pre oandemoc levels, except for ours? Oggy my good man, I love you but give it a rest. We left the EU for godsake 😂 P.s other economies absolutely aren't in a better state than ours. Some are and some aren't. Europe is in as much, if not more chaos than us - Particularly given their dependencies on Russia which will make for an interesting winter ahead. You cannot answer any scrutiny of your points of view. Other economies are struggling. Ours more so generally than comparable nations. We still aren’t back to pre pandemic levels and are about to enter recession.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 8, 2022 11:16:57 GMT
You might think so. I'll stick to what I said over two years ago on the Covid thread in response to all the never-ending, totalitarian, dystopian, fascist power-grab lot, before largely giving up with it - that in two years hence we will be looking back on Covid, glad that all the restrictions were over and life was returning pretty much to normal. Which, not surprisingly, is how it turned out. Like estrangedsonoffaye, probably the best and most knowledgeable poster on the whole Covid thread, someone who clearly knew his medical onions, I also gave up with all the conspiracy tinfoilers and it'd be sad if this thread was similarly hijacked. Anyone who wants to debate Covid can do so on that thread to their hearts' content. Thanks but I think admin will decide on what is and isn't allowed to be debated 😉 In all seriousness though the hypocrisy is outrageous. As if this thread hasn't already been hijacked 😂 You're more than happy to discuss in depth how shit the current ruling party is (which we all know already) yet when it comes to discussing the most economically damaging, contentious and relevant policy of this government, you don't seem interested. Is it because it makes you feel uncomfortable knowing you supported the lockdown policy? I didn't say you loved it, but you supported it. You also seem happy to bring up Brexit on just about every thread going, can't that remain in the brexit thread? Hypocrisy at its finest 😊 I'm sure they will! This thread is about how shit the government is so it seems appropriate to discuss stuff they do on here. Anything more specific like Brexit and Covid have, quite understandably, got their own separate threads. I don't see the need for another one on Covid! If I wanted to carry on discussing Covid I'd do so on there. I don't because, as I said, it's largely full of tinfoilers. I'm quite happy with my position on Covid as I stated it over two years ago. I didn't think it was a never-ending, totalitarian, dystopian, fascist power-grab at the time. Seems a pretty accurate prediction as it turned out! If you want to carry on with the hyperbole and over-reaction, that thread would be the best place for it, I'd suggest.
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