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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 7, 2022 8:54:23 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 7, 2022 8:59:08 GMT
I heard a story yesterday of a NHS trust who set on a manager of a ENT department who they recruited from Morrisons, within 3 weeks of starting he went off on long term sick, within the next 4 weeks he was paid off with a full years salary! Yep. Paid sick leave has been horribly exploited by certain NHS workers for years. Some of the stories I hear from friends within the health service never cease to amaze me. A fully paid 12 months for a nurse claiming mental health who then turned up after a couple of months on Instagram in Florida having a great time 😂 Like I say, there are some very good and talented people within the NHS, no one would deny that, but in the same way, they are some very very bad people. If only it did leave you speechless If, as you say, there are good and bad people in all walks of life, which nobody disputes, why focus on the two 'bad' examples to try to make your point? I mean, the answer is obvious, but it's worth pointing out the confirmation bias you're engaging in. Actually, to address a previous post, other countries have copied the NHS, with minor tweaks to sort their own individual needs: www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/why-has-the-nhs-not-been-copied-spoiler-it-has#beveridge-versus-bismarck- and you can, generally, improve things by funding them adequately, see the British Olympic team's improvement since it received lottery funding for example, and the fact that the government was, until recently, acknowledging that the NHS and social care needed additional funds through NI increases. That said, additional funding and reform would seem the best way forward. Other than obvious political lines, I don't see why it has to be one or the other. At some point people will have to realise (you would hope!) that, if you want first class public services, you have to pay for them (we generate less tax revenue than most other comparable European countries, as a percentage of GDP www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-kingdom.pdf). The alternative being probably paying more through medical insurance to profit making organisations. And we've all seen how well that has gone for customers of the railways and energy companies.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 7, 2022 9:15:46 GMT
What a favour it would do the country if it followed the same fate as the News of the World. No surprise whatsoever.
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 7, 2022 9:22:09 GMT
The NHS is utterly broken and isn't replicated (or worshiped) around the world for a reason. As mentioned countless times, it's too big (second largest employer in the world after the Chinese regime) - you simply cannot manage an organisation or business of that size with any degree of efficiency. If we have any real ambition as a nation to have a world class health service, it needs absolutely ripping to shreds and starting again. Of course, touching the NHS is viewed (by a tiny minority of angry cultists and the media) as blasphemy so politicians just won't go near it. The state of our failing health service is summed up perfectly by a pretty well known hospital near me which now has two CEO's (you heard it, not one, but two!) and three diversity officers. It just leaves you speechless. As with all organisations and businesses, there are good people in the NHS and there are totally shit people in the NHS. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Just in terms of the nurse pay debate, aside from the obvious point that they could always find another job if they don't like what they earn, the average nurse salary in the UK is 33k. Anyone earning over 20k, let alone 30k doesn't need to be going to a food bank do they? I also think it's worth pointing out that there are some pretty exceptional perks that nurses and the like get that much of the public doesn't even know about, be it significant discounts on day to day spend, pension schemes, mortgage schemes, incredibly favourable maternity/paternity packages, significant leave (over 30 days per annum) etc. If you aren't happy with your salary or aren't happy with your job, move on and get another job that does give you what you want. Do something about it. Good plan, hopefully all these moaning nurses will leave the NHS to take up better paid and less stressful jobs leaving who exactly to deal with the nations sick??? The root causes of many of the problems the NHS faces are recruitment and retainment. The biggest waste of money in the service at the moment isn't the employment of Diversity Officers or paying too much for paracetamol, it's the inflated rates they're having to pay to agencies to plug the holes.
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Post by henry on Oct 7, 2022 9:26:52 GMT
How much do nurses get paid? That depends on how you define ‘nurse’. All Registered Nurses qualifying over the last 20 or 30 years are graduates. Their role has evolved over that time to become more managerial and it incorporates a lot of stuff previously done by doctors. Less-technical (but not necessarily less important) tasks that were traditionally considered the role of the nurse have become part of the Care Assistant’s job. A newly-qualified Registered Nurse gets £27k, while those at the top of the profession will be up to about £60k. Average is £32k. Band 2s (the ones wiping arses and cleaning up vomit) are on just over £20k. The average £32k seems fair, that lower end pay should be increased, but across the board 10% rise seems unjust.
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Post by Veritas on Oct 7, 2022 9:49:53 GMT
Good plan, hopefully all these moaning nurses will leave the NHS to take up better paid and less stressful jobs leaving who exactly to deal with the nations sick??? The root causes of many of the problems the NHS faces are recruitment and retainment. The biggest waste of money in the service at the moment isn't the employment of Diversity Officers or paying too much for paracetamol, it's the inflated rates they're having to pay to agencies to plug the holes. Exactly, and in fact its retention rather than recruitment that is the main problem. Loads of people want to take up the noble career of nursing but the NHS is so strapped for cash that the reality of nurses working life is so stressful that people leave in greater numbers than we can replace them. Stem the flow of those leaving, by improving pay and conditions, and we would stabilise the situation, save loads of recruitment costs and not have to plunder other countries for their nursing resources.
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 7, 2022 9:54:32 GMT
That depends on how you define ‘nurse’. All Registered Nurses qualifying over the last 20 or 30 years are graduates. Their role has evolved over that time to become more managerial and it incorporates a lot of stuff previously done by doctors. Less-technical (but not necessarily less important) tasks that were traditionally considered the role of the nurse have become part of the Care Assistant’s job. A newly-qualified Registered Nurse gets £27k, while those at the top of the profession will be up to about £60k. Average is £32k. Band 2s (the ones wiping arses and cleaning up vomit) are on just over £20k. The average £32k seems fair, that lower end pay should be increased, but across the board 10% rise seems unjust. I'm not sure how there can be any sense of injustice in a group of essential workers getting a pay rise that's in line with inflation, particularly when that group's pay was held back for so long. But leaving justice aside, you could take the 'market forces' view and conclude that a significant improvement in pay and conditions is necessary to attract the 'brightest and best' and arrest the brain drain.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 7, 2022 10:07:31 GMT
The NHS is utterly broken and isn't replicated (or worshiped) around the world for a reason. As mentioned countless times, it's too big (second largest employer in the world after the Chinese regime) - you simply cannot manage an organisation or business of that size with any degree of efficiency. If we have any real ambition as a nation to have a world class health service, it needs absolutely ripping to shreds and starting again. Of course, touching the NHS is viewed (by a tiny minority of angry cultists and the media) as blasphemy so politicians just won't go near it. The state of our failing health service is summed up perfectly by a pretty well known hospital near me which now has two CEO's (you heard it, not one, but two!) and three diversity officers. It just leaves you speechless. As with all organisations and businesses, there are good people in the NHS and there are totally shit people in the NHS. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Just in terms of the nurse pay debate, aside from the obvious point that they could always find another job if they don't like what they earn, the average nurse salary in the UK is 33k. Anyone earning over 20k, let alone 30k doesn't need to be going to a food bank do they? I also think it's worth pointing out that there are some pretty exceptional perks that nurses and the like get that much of the public doesn't even know about, be it significant discounts on day to day spend, pension schemes, mortgage schemes, incredibly favourable maternity/paternity packages, significant leave (over 30 days per annum) etc. If you aren't happy with your salary or aren't happy with your job, move on and get another job that does give you what you want. Do something about it. Whilst I agree with most of your post, regrettably your last comment is the nub of the issue. 40,000 nurses left the NHS last year whilst 44,000 joined. www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/record-number-of-nurses-leaving-the-nhs-in-england-30-09-2022/But the statistics do not tell the whole picture. Many leavers become agency nurses. The majority of new nurses come from abroad and need training and assessment before they can work. This all needs a massive amount of administration. On salary there used to be SRNs and SENs I've been told there are 16 grades or more of nurses nowadays depending on what exams they have past. Time out for nurses training for the next exam. Nurse Practicioners now cover Doctors duties because doctors are so highly paid they only work 3 or 4 days a week. As a former worker in a nationalised industry the NHS has all the hallmarks of the economics of the mad house to me. When I visit hospital I see admin assistants walking back and forth with thick files and I wonder when computers will get used for data store and transfer in the NHS. Nevertheless the service I personally receive from the NHS is excellent and I always find the people wonderful. Regrettably not so for my brother in law who collapses a few months ago, went into hospital, caught Covid, then contracted sepsis, was clearly dying; his daughter kicked up a huge stink demanding action, they moved him to another ward and he quickly recovered and was discharged. What if his daughter had not been around?
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Post by Gob Bluth on Oct 7, 2022 10:23:03 GMT
The NHS is utterly broken and isn't replicated (or worshiped) around the world for a reason. As mentioned countless times, it's too big (second largest employer in the world after the Chinese regime) - you simply cannot manage an organisation or business of that size with any degree of efficiency. If we have any real ambition as a nation to have a world class health service, it needs absolutely ripping to shreds and starting again. Of course, touching the NHS is viewed (by a tiny minority of angry cultists and the media) as blasphemy so politicians just won't go near it. The state of our failing health service is summed up perfectly by a pretty well known hospital near me which now has two CEO's (you heard it, not one, but two!) and three diversity officers. It just leaves you speechless. As with all organisations and businesses, there are good people in the NHS and there are totally shit people in the NHS. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Just in terms of the nurse pay debate, aside from the obvious point that they could always find another job if they don't like what they earn, the average nurse salary in the UK is 33k. Anyone earning over 20k, let alone 30k doesn't need to be going to a food bank do they? I also think it's worth pointing out that there are some pretty exceptional perks that nurses and the like get that much of the public doesn't even know about, be it significant discounts on day to day spend, pension schemes, mortgage schemes, incredibly favourable maternity/paternity packages, significant leave (over 30 days per annum) etc. If you aren't happy with your salary or aren't happy with your job, move on and get another job that does give you what you want. Do something about it. I'd like to think markets provide good outcomes and while the indicators are there that they should be paid more i.e. many are leaving the other part of the equation isn't happening, which is the wage increase. Especially when we've restricted the labour market in certain areas. It seems an unfair relationship for the government to reduce funding but then set performance metrics the NHS has to meet. Re the 30k and food banks, if it's a single parent living in a city where rents are utterly ridiculous and due to their job they're paying childcare and travel costs I can see how they could be using foodbanks.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 7, 2022 12:04:46 GMT
Good plan, hopefully all these moaning nurses will leave the NHS to take up better paid and less stressful jobs leaving who exactly to deal with the nations sick??? The root causes of many of the problems the NHS faces are recruitment and retainment. The biggest waste of money in the service at the moment isn't the employment of Diversity Officers or paying too much for paracetamol, it's the inflated rates they're having to pay to agencies to plug the holes. You know those agency workers are the exact same nurses in the full time roles don't you? They work agency to top up their salary and the authority uses them to fill the tens of thousands of current vacancies it cant fill at the base salary. It's just glorified overtime. I should know I was married to one for 30 years.
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Post by dexter97 on Oct 7, 2022 12:28:14 GMT
The root causes of many of the problems the NHS faces are recruitment and retainment. The biggest waste of money in the service at the moment isn't the employment of Diversity Officers or paying too much for paracetamol, it's the inflated rates they're having to pay to agencies to plug the holes. You know those agency workers are the exact same nurses in the full time roles don't you? They work agency to top up their salary and the authority uses them to fill the tens of thousands of current vacancies it cant fill at the base salary. It's just glorified overtime. I should know I was married to one for 30 years. My better half has been a nurse for a similar length of time. So yes, I know that many are doing both, but there are plenty of others who've left the NHS and work for the agencies full-time as it's so much more lucrative. Either way, the wards are paying two or three times what they would be if they'd been able to keep hold of their staff.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 7, 2022 14:09:22 GMT
You know those agency workers are the exact same nurses in the full time roles don't you? They work agency to top up their salary and the authority uses them to fill the tens of thousands of current vacancies it cant fill at the base salary. It's just glorified overtime. I should know I was married to one for 30 years. My better half has been a nurse for a similar length of time. So yes, I know that many are doing both, but there are plenty of others who've left the NHS and work for the agencies full-time as it's so much more lucrative. Either way, the wards are paying two or three times what they would be if they'd been able to keep hold of their staff. Or paid the going rate. People don't seem to like market economics when it doesn't suit. The agency couldn't get away with it if the demand side wasn't there eh?
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Post by Gob Bluth on Oct 7, 2022 14:20:21 GMT
I hope she doesn't think the sky really was falling down on Chicken Licken.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2022 14:42:22 GMT
The NHS is utterly broken and isn't replicated (or worshiped) around the world for a reason. As mentioned countless times, it's too big (second largest employer in the world after the Chinese regime) - you simply cannot manage an organisation or business of that size with any degree of efficiency. If we have any real ambition as a nation to have a world class health service, it needs absolutely ripping to shreds and starting again. Of course, touching the NHS is viewed (by a tiny minority of angry cultists and the media) as blasphemy so politicians just won't go near it. The state of our failing health service is summed up perfectly by a pretty well known hospital near me which now has two CEO's (you heard it, not one, but two!) and three diversity officers. It just leaves you speechless. As with all organisations and businesses, there are good people in the NHS and there are totally shit people in the NHS. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Just in terms of the nurse pay debate, aside from the obvious point that they could always find another job if they don't like what they earn, the average nurse salary in the UK is 33k. Anyone earning over 20k, let alone 30k doesn't need to be going to a food bank do they? I also think it's worth pointing out that there are some pretty exceptional perks that nurses and the like get that much of the public doesn't even know about, be it significant discounts on day to day spend, pension schemes, mortgage schemes, incredibly favourable maternity/paternity packages, significant leave (over 30 days per annum) etc. If you aren't happy with your salary or aren't happy with your job, move on and get another job that does give you what you want. Do something about it. I heard a story yesterday of a NHS trust who set on a manager of a ENT department who they recruited from Morrisons, within 3 weeks of starting he went off on long term sick, within the next 4 weeks he was paid off with a full years salary! Heard it where? He'd still be on his probation period surely why would they pay him a year's salary?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 7, 2022 14:46:51 GMT
I heard a story yesterday of a NHS trust who set on a manager of a ENT department who they recruited from Morrisons, within 3 weeks of starting he went off on long term sick, within the next 4 weeks he was paid off with a full years salary! Heard it where? He'd still be on his probation period surely why would they pay him a year's salary? It definitely happened.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2022 14:49:24 GMT
Heard it where? He'd still be on his probation period surely why would they pay him a year's salary? It definitely happened. So whichever idiot agreed to that should be held accountable........
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 7, 2022 14:51:13 GMT
So whichever idiot agreed to that should be held accountable........ I was joking. Apologies for not putting a after my post. I mean, maybe it did really happen and knype will furnish us with the details.
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Post by Davef on Oct 7, 2022 15:13:34 GMT
Daphne Moon's dad thinks this government is an utter shambles, incompetent and !!!!!
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 7, 2022 15:13:51 GMT
Just had an expert on BBC news talking about social care he said the rise in ni would have raised 19 bn per year but only 2.5 had been allocated for social care considering all the rise was supposed to go to social care where was the other 16.5 going
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 7, 2022 15:15:55 GMT
Daphne Moon's dad thinks this government is an utter shambles, incompetent and !!!!! Was he sober and was niels with him or Frazier 😁
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 7, 2022 15:24:03 GMT
Trade minister been suspended for inappropriate behaviour seriouse misconduct earlier this week Connor burns mp and sacked as minister
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Post by chiprockets on Oct 7, 2022 15:30:04 GMT
Trade minister been suspended for inappropriate behaviour seriouse misconduct earlier this week Connor burns mp and sacked as minister I heard from a source close to knypes mate's mother in law it's all bollocks.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 7, 2022 16:04:05 GMT
How many kiddy fiddlers and sexual deviants are there in the Tory party? F*cking hell.
That must be the 4th one now in about 12 months.
Will be an interesting byelection. Bournemouth West, Tory stronghold since its inception in 1950; consistently getting 45-55% of the votes cast in recent elections.
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Post by noustie on Oct 7, 2022 16:37:02 GMT
Kwasi less than impressed Burns had been snorting half his conference stash but Truss apoplectic, not that he was doing it off Braverman's anus, but that he was using a 50 Euro note to do it allegedly screaming in a Butlin's Thatcher impersonator brogue at him 'we're backing the dollar you thick bastard!'
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 7, 2022 16:37:24 GMT
How many kiddy fiddlers and sexual deviants are there in the Tory party? F*cking hell. That must be the 4th one now in about 12 months. Will be an interesting byelection. Bournemouth West, Tory stronghold since its inception in 1950; consistently getting 45-55% of the votes cast in recent elections. He’s only been suspended. So no by-election. I think.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 7, 2022 17:01:16 GMT
I hope she doesn't think the sky really was falling down on Chicken Licken. I have disagreed with many PMs Policies but by God she's certainly the Dumbes Well at least there back to doing what they do best Conor Byrne whipped removed for "inappropriate behaviour " I feel sorry for the young lad this Odious Oik was pursuing
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 7, 2022 18:35:50 GMT
How many kiddy fiddlers and sexual deviants are there in the Tory party? F*cking hell. That must be the 4th one now in about 12 months. Will be an interesting byelection. Bournemouth West, Tory stronghold since its inception in 1950; consistently getting 45-55% of the votes cast in recent elections. He’s only been suspended. So no by-election. I think. Well there has been no byelection in romford even though hes suspended and charged by the police
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 7, 2022 18:45:45 GMT
We have an energy crisis We have an environmental crisis We have 3hr blackouts possible
Jrm wants to run energy saving campaign
What does truss do
Veto campaign And prepares more licenses for extracting fossil fuel
Shes living up to her name as mad lizzy
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Post by gawa on Oct 7, 2022 19:28:58 GMT
This aged well. How much have we given to energy companies this year that we own 0% of?
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Post by gawa on Oct 7, 2022 19:45:25 GMT
Interesting to note the CBIs criticism in the sun of Jeremy's plans. The same CBI who were very supportive of the Torys collapsing the economy 2 weeks ago - www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/cbi-response-to-chancellors-fiscal-statement/And then the same CBI said the U turn was the right thing too. After supporting the changes 10 days earlier - www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/cbi-chief-says-income-tax-u-turn-was-right-thing/Does this non profit organisation really have the best interests of the British public? Seems they're just a non political arm of the Torys. Not surprising though when their president was given a life peerage by the Torys in 2016, The same president who was implicated in a Panama papers leak. Maybe this is why torys call the left wing "woke". Because we're aware of the corruption of the right wing while their supporters are still fast asleep mesmerised by Murdoch.
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