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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 15, 2022 14:11:55 GMT
You are plucking that £5bn number out of thin air. My household must change our way of living to deal with increased costs of energy and food and go without things we would like. And my household is probably in the top 5% of incomes. So if Starmer’s plan would make a big difference to my household, I suspect there are many more who it would be transformative for. It is miles ahead of anything the tories have announced. Actually I didn't £5bn is a guestimate based on the percentage of households who experience fuel poverty. It's almost certainly an overstatement as I didn't factor in the fact that fuel poverty households will pay a much lower fuel bill than non fuel poverty households. So, probably nearer to £1bn than £5bn of the £29bn will be making it's way to people that really need help. Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 14:24:31 GMT
Actually I didn't £5bn is a guestimate based on the percentage of households who experience fuel poverty. It's almost certainly an overstatement as I didn't factor in the fact that fuel poverty households will pay a much lower fuel bill than non fuel poverty households. So, probably nearer to £1bn than £5bn of the £29bn will be making it's way to people that really need help. Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. If my guestimate is correct, and it won't be far off, it's a shameful use of public money. He should have come up with a plan to target help to the people who need it. That would need a lot more gumption than he has shown to date. All he's done is basically raised what te Tories previously committed to. Which I also didn't agree with. But at least £400 for every household is a little bit progressive as a policy. Btw, I'm also not convinced that it will help much with inflation if it provides more cash for lots of folk who are happy to spend money. Which is the valid argument against tax cuts just now.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2022 14:50:23 GMT
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2022 15:01:26 GMT
Actually I didn't £5bn is a guestimate based on the percentage of households who experience fuel poverty. It's almost certainly an overstatement as I didn't factor in the fact that fuel poverty households will pay a much lower fuel bill than non fuel poverty households. So, probably nearer to £1bn than £5bn of the £29bn will be making it's way to people that really need help. Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. “Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month.” Starmer is offering £1000 assistance per month? Where do I sign up for that?
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 15, 2022 15:16:55 GMT
Immediate impact on cost of living fuel crisis re nationalise all energy companies and stop high dividends going to shareholders and away from condumers
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Post by Northy on Aug 15, 2022 15:34:51 GMT
Immediate impact on cost of living fuel crisis re nationalise all energy companies and stop high dividends going to shareholders and away from condumers Just the energy companies, or water and BT as well ? You're probably talking getting up to £200 billion to buy the shares, then what about the pensions, do you know how much each company pays out on those ?
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 15, 2022 15:36:05 GMT
Actually I didn't £5bn is a guestimate based on the percentage of households who experience fuel poverty. It's almost certainly an overstatement as I didn't factor in the fact that fuel poverty households will pay a much lower fuel bill than non fuel poverty households. So, probably nearer to £1bn than £5bn of the £29bn will be making it's way to people that really need help. Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. You may have overestimated the amount of help starmer has offered In your indecent haste to blow bubbles up his arse All his plan has offered is that energy bills won’t go up until April As I have previously said kicking the can down the road
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 15, 2022 15:42:35 GMT
Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. If my guestimate is correct, and it won't be far off, it's a shameful use of public money. He should have come up with a plan to target help to the people who need it. That would need a lot more gumption than he has shown to date. All he's done is basically raised what te Tories previously committed to. Which I also didn't agree with. But at least £400 for every household is a little bit progressive as a policy. Btw, I'm also not convinced that it will help much with inflation if it provides more cash for lots of folk who are happy to spend money. Which is the valid argument against tax cuts just now. So it is a more progressive version of the £400 tory policy then. Current inflation is mainly caused by supply issues. Not lots of people with excess cash. Stopping energy doubling in price will help with inflation short term.
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 15, 2022 15:43:36 GMT
Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. “Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month.” Starmer is offering £1000 assistance per month? Where do I sign up for that? Sorry, clearly an error by me. £1000 per household compared with £400 per household.
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 15, 2022 15:50:47 GMT
Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. You may have overestimated the amount of help starmer has offered In your indecent haste to blow bubbles up his arse All his plan has offered is that energy bills won’t go up until April As I have previously said kicking the can down the road Yes. Kicking the can. But you and nobody else seems to have produced a better way of helping people cover costs this winter. By April, the world may be very different and there is time to develop a strategy to stop investing in fossil fuels and start a nationalised green and nuclear energy company. I have not over estimated what starmer has said. He has said no price cap increase, which reduces prices for all and mitigates inflation, reducing pressing needs for mass pay rises and reduces need for strikes etc. He has said the poorest will still benefit from the extra measures over and above the £400 (£1000 on his plan)which is good. He has said mass investment in insulation to help reduce need for heating in winter. Better than what the tories have come up with. Better than what you have come up with. But you still criticise him and not the tories. Nationalising energy right now would be the most expensive possible time to do it. Regulation on big oil and gas, coupled with a new nationalised green and nuclear energy company is the best way forward to deal with the long term. But that will take many years.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 15, 2022 15:57:05 GMT
Gosh, fancy someone wanting to help ordinary people out in a time of crisis, instead of standing by and going all dewy-eyed at profits...what on earth is Starmer doing?
He'll never get elected with that approach. At least, not once the patriotic non-dom owned Press find out that beer he had was a communist, tax-payer funded, strike-promoting beer...
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2022 16:03:31 GMT
Which is a huge amount more than under the tory policy of £400 a month help rather than £1000 a month. I suspect those experiencing fuel poverty will go up 10 fold this winter under the tory plan. Also, it isn’t just those experiencing fuel poverty that are having their finances squeezed to the limit. Having said all of that, I do think there is more scope to target relief to the poorest more under all plans. But by canceling the energy price cap increase, it also targets inflation and helps slow the increase in other costs, which spiral when inflation grips. You may have overestimated the amount of help starmer has offered In your indecent haste to blow bubbles up his arse All his plan has offered is that energy bills won’t go up until April As I have previously said kicking the can down the road It does not much for inflation either, there is no help for business for which there never has been a price cap, I also thought the poorest got an extra £1200 from the package announced but I can see why oggy is getting excited he thinks he'll get a £1,000.... Needs a longer term solution need to increase supply and storage so we become energy secure and stop relying on windmills and such like.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 16:20:10 GMT
You may have overestimated the amount of help starmer has offered In your indecent haste to blow bubbles up his arse All his plan has offered is that energy bills won’t go up until April As I have previously said kicking the can down the road It does not much for inflation either, there is no help for business for which there never has been a price cap, I also thought the poorest got an extra £1200 from the package announced but I can see why oggy is getting excited he thinks he'll get a £1,000.... Needs a longer term solution need to increase supply and storage so we become energy secure and stop relying on windmills and such like. In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it.
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2022 16:44:33 GMT
It does not much for inflation either, there is no help for business for which there never has been a price cap, I also thought the poorest got an extra £1200 from the package announced but I can see why oggy is getting excited he thinks he'll get a £1,000.... Needs a longer term solution need to increase supply and storage so we become energy secure and stop relying on windmills and such like. In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. After his previous £46 announcement, the deal already announced was £650 for people on benefits, £600 for pensioners and the £400 per household, that will be improved in time but as you say it needs to be targetted to people who really need not to people where it might just affect the holiday they go on, when they change their car.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 16:51:31 GMT
In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. After his previous £46 announcement, the deal already announced was £650 for people on benefits, £600 for pensioners and the £400 per household, that will be improved in time but as you say it needs to be targetted to people who really need not to people where it might just affect the holiday they go on, when they change their car. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a monster raise coming up imminently. The Government has decided to abandon its role of governing in favour of holidays in Greece and an interminable election process. Pathetic.
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2022 17:00:06 GMT
After his previous £46 announcement, the deal already announced was £650 for people on benefits, £600 for pensioners and the £400 per household, that will be improved in time but as you say it needs to be targetted to people who really need not to people where it might just affect the holiday they go on, when they change their car. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a monster raise coming up imminently. The Government has decided to abandon its role of governing in favour of holidays in Greece and an interminable election process. Pathetic. And there will be more help offered in time unlike you to fall for the fluff.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 17:05:14 GMT
In case you hadn’t noticed there is a monster raise coming up imminently. The Government has decided to abandon its role of governing in favour of holidays in Greece and an interminable election process. Pathetic. And there will be more help offered in time unlike you to fall for the fluff. Time is what we don’t have.
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Post by peterpan1 on Aug 15, 2022 17:07:45 GMT
It does not much for inflation either, there is no help for business for which there never has been a price cap, I also thought the poorest got an extra £1200 from the package announced but I can see why oggy is getting excited he thinks he'll get a £1,000.... Needs a longer term solution need to increase supply and storage so we become energy secure and stop relying on windmills and such like. In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. With energy bills set to top 4k per year how can you suggest the vast majority won't need the extra help/cash ?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 17:09:51 GMT
In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. With energy bills set to top 4k per year how can you suggest the vast majority won't need the extra help/cash ? The key word there is “need” not “could do with”.
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 15, 2022 17:20:40 GMT
With energy bills set to top 4k per year how can you suggest the vast majority won't need the extra help/cash ? The key word there is “need” not “could do with”. When all a person/household has left at the end of the month is given to energy companies, this has a massive impact on their future and especially on their mental health. Savings will dwindle away, hope of getting a deposit for a house down the drain, scared shitless of a car breaking down etc. Why the fuck do people have to go through that so that others get this huge windfall? It fucking stinks, we're being ripped off.
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 15, 2022 19:43:33 GMT
Just had a notification email from British gas the 400 is not 400 off straight away its 67 per month is this yet again the electric companies taking the mick banking the 400 then slow drip of money so they can make profits off the interest be interested to hear what your companies are doing
Ps
Torrential rain here
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2022 19:52:18 GMT
Just had a notification email from British gas the 400 is not 400 off straight away its 67 per month is this yet again the electric companies taking the mick banking the 400 then slow drip of money so they can make profits off the interest be interested to hear what your companies are doing Ps Torrential rain here Shell Energy says the money will be drip fed to us (my words, not theirs) but haven’t given a figure. Ps Dry here, but a bit of a nip in the air.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 15, 2022 20:18:19 GMT
It does not much for inflation either, there is no help for business for which there never has been a price cap, I also thought the poorest got an extra £1200 from the package announced but I can see why oggy is getting excited he thinks he'll get a £1,000.... Needs a longer term solution need to increase supply and storage so we become energy secure and stop relying on windmills and such like. In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. Other than re-introducing the universally loathed means testing, what do you propose he does?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 15, 2022 20:24:10 GMT
In case you hadn’t noticed there is a monster raise coming up imminently. The Government has decided to abandon its role of governing in favour of holidays in Greece and an interminable election process. Pathetic. And there will be more help offered in time unlike you to fall for the fluff. Ironic comment, given how pathologically incapable FYD is of seeing any form of criticism of any Tory, ever. So, assuming that he never falls for any of their "fluff", the incessant defence of stuff he clearly knows to be cynically produced bullshit is a bit disturbed, frankly.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2022 21:03:08 GMT
In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. Other than re-introducing the universally loathed means testing, what do you propose he does? I don’t know. Find a way to limit what is paid per household?
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 16, 2022 5:43:22 GMT
After his previous £46 announcement, the deal already announced was £650 for people on benefits, £600 for pensioners and the £400 per household, that will be improved in time but as you say it needs to be targetted to people who really need not to people where it might just affect the holiday they go on, when they change their car. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a monster raise coming up imminently. The Government has decided to abandon its role of governing in favour of holidays in Greece and an interminable election process. Pathetic. Just as a matter of point We’ve been wondering why starmer’s took so long to come up with labours plan was it the complex details in the plan No he fucked off on holiday
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 16, 2022 5:52:46 GMT
In fairness to Starmer, he’s actually come out with something. The Tories are doing fuck all. The issue I have with Starmer’s offering is it is a bad offer. I want to see something that helps people that need help, not something that will see the vast majority of the cash go to people who don’t need it. With energy bills set to top 4k per year how can you suggest the vast majority won't need the extra help/cash ? Correct The cafe owners in the labour heartlands are shitting themselves over the prospect of soy lattes and avocado on sourdough sales dropping off a cliff
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Post by essexstokey on Aug 16, 2022 5:53:22 GMT
Just noticed yet another program that makes fun of the government is cancelled by the Tory mouthpiece the BBC with mock the week being cancelled that's 3 programmes now at least critical of government now axed when will Tory censorship end
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 16, 2022 6:25:05 GMT
With energy bills set to top 4k per year how can you suggest the vast majority won't need the extra help/cash ? Correct The cafe owners in the labour heartlands are shitting themselves over the prospect of soy lattes and avocado on sourdough sales dropping off a cliff Considering you don't work pal, it seems strange to me that you're attacking Starmer with every post instead of Liz Truss who'll have you freezing this winter and not give a toss.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 16, 2022 7:57:45 GMT
Correct The cafe owners in the labour heartlands are shitting themselves over the prospect of soy lattes and avocado on sourdough sales dropping off a cliff Considering you don't work pal, it seems strange to me that you're attacking Starmer with every post instead of Liz Truss who'll have you freezing this winter and not give a toss. He knows his place.
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