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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 27, 2022 18:00:33 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit. British industry has suffered from underinvestment and low productivity for years. "Stark investment choices for a healthier UK economy - Investors' Chronicle" www.investorschronicle.co.uk/news/2021/11/18/stark-investment-choices-for-a-healthier-uk-economy/You can argue until the cows come home the extent to which membership of the EU has had an effect on that - however my view is that it is cultural as it lags even within the EU. Nevertheless Brexit has exposed that starkly and for all the noise about NI, immigration, breaking international law and any other distraction they're mere side issues unless there is a fundamental shift in british business culture we're going to have problems for years to come. And that was always on the cards with or without Brexit as no govt has really got to grips with it for as long as I can remember.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 27, 2022 18:00:40 GMT
It's basic supply and demand, when you shut down the world economy on and off for 2 years, killing demand in certain cases, those businesses affected adjust the supply, now demand is returning but guess what supply is more difficult to upscale so businesses increase the price to sell products to make the most profit. Add in 20 years of following insane green policies along with the impact of fuel and energy costs and its going to be bumpy for a good few months. Are green policies to blame for fuel prices? I think there's a case that the green sources have helped in some way against the sanctions. Also it looks like many countries outside of Europe are ignoring the calls for green energy and are resorting to coal, I'm sure the price of coal has quadrupled which could indicate an increase in demand. Green levies on bills are much higher than VAT, renewables have had massive subsidies / investmemt yet provide a tiny fraction of our needs and are unreliable, nuclear is the cleanest if we had put the money into that we would be better off, germany and france are firing coal power stations back up, there may be some technology in the future to produce green energy like green hydrogen but we have wasted billions and billions on windmills.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jun 27, 2022 18:03:25 GMT
what as the pandemic and the Ukraine war got to do with inflation It's basic supply and demand, when you shut down the world economy on and off for 2 years, killing demand in certain cases, those businesses affected adjust the supply, now demand is returning but guess what supply is more difficult to upscale so businesses increase the price to sell products to make the most profit. Add in 20 years of following insane green policies along with the impact of fuel and energy costs and its going to be bumpy for a good few months. Why are Tory Ministers trying to fool people into believing its wages?
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 18:24:29 GMT
Without a car, you never have a car crash. Blame the car. Tell me, what colour is the sky on planet Stupid. You tell me. Without guns, we don’t have nearly the same amount of gun crime as the USA. Without cars, we would have no car crashes Without brexit, our economy would be far more able to deal with the inflationary problems it is facing On guns… agree On cars… stupid On Brexit. Mibbees aye, mibbes naw. As that New Statesman article said and you misrepresented.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 19:14:38 GMT
Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit. Sorry, Coke, I don’t think we do agree. I was quoting the pro brexit economist from the article. I agree more with the other economists who point to increased costs to businesses because of added brexit red tape, a devalued pound because of brexit and the other inflationary impacts of brexit as some of the causes of our current inflation problems. Brexit has directly led to increased costs and higher inflation. The handling of it has made it even worse. Had we respected the will of the people and left the EU in the least disruptive way (which would have better respected the very slim majority in favour of leave) and joined the EEA, inflation would be much lower and our economy would have been far more robust in responding to the pandemic and the war compared with now. Instead, 6 years on, we are looking to rip up the deal we struck already! I admire your persistence Oggy but your battling the NewSpeak on Brexit who will change the agenda to suit their purpose Being unable to deny that Brexit has been an Economic Shitshow the new narrative is that the reason Brexit hasn't been a success is that the pure implementation has been thwarted by a Woke Whitehall and "defeatist civil servants" They don't explain how despite a Tory Party purged of any remainers and elected with an 80 seat majority could this be possible We are being asked to belive this Government can pass laws to break International Laws but is being hampered in implementing its Brexit Policies This NewSpeak is being Spearheaded by Iain Duncan Smith and the Centre for Brexit Policy www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10930483/amp/Defeatist-officials-thwarting-efforts-cash-opportunities-Brexit-report-finds.htmlThe reality is that since Brexit, whether you agree it's as a result of Brexit or not Sterling has devalued 20%/12% against US$/€ making imports more expensive Conversely this should make exports more attractive which hasn't happened as British Industry has had no confidence to invest to improve productivity Uncertainty is the enemy of Business
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 19:44:48 GMT
I don't know why your complaining You've been calling for State ownership and that's what we've got, just not UK State Ownership
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jun 27, 2022 19:47:28 GMT
Are green policies to blame for fuel prices? I think there's a case that the green sources have helped in some way against the sanctions. Also it looks like many countries outside of Europe are ignoring the calls for green energy and are resorting to coal, I'm sure the price of coal has quadrupled which could indicate an increase in demand. Green levies on bills are much higher than VAT, renewables have had massive subsidies / investmemt yet provide a tiny fraction of our needs and are unreliable, nuclear is the cleanest if we had put the money into that we would be better off, germany and france are firing coal power stations back up, there may be some technology in the future to produce green energy like green hydrogen but we have wasted billions and billions on windmills. I genuinely didn’t know that the wind interest was bad, I thought that despite its inconsistencies it delivered fairly cheap power.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 19:49:15 GMT
I'm sure the US is devastated the Memo was "Leaked" Not.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 21:23:29 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 22:42:12 GMT
Well at least Owen Patterson should be in line for a major "bonus" for his "Consultancy" Role Excellent performance by Randox to turn a £12M loss in previous year to £275M profit in Covid Year 1 (more to come in Year 2) on the back of of £777M Government contracts Nothing to see here say the National Audit Office who found "No evidence " the contracts had been awarded inappropriately The NAO did note there were "gaps in the Audit trail" It went on to say that 60% of contracts £463.5M were awarded without competition (set your own price) under "emergency procurement rules" It found the Department of Health did not "adequately" document key decisions, nor "fully" disclose ministerial* meetings with Randox
* There is a Triumvirate Matt Hancock, "Lord" Bethell and of course Owen Patterson It's very unfortunate for the NAO that unfortunately they found "No evidence " when phones were "lost" "WhatsApp " messages "deleted" meetings "not recorded " Gillian Keegan was put in the impossible position by order of HOC to go and look for the minutes of the conference call between Patterson, Bethell and Randox which of course was never minuted, why would you incriminate yourself Keegan was eventually later forced to come back to to HOC to claim she couldn't find the minutes to howls of derision and claims of "the dog ate my homework" www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59320858.ampIf this were happening in some tinpot third world Banana Republic country we would shake our heads and not be too surprised The only difference its happening here in UK without the benefit of the Tropical Weather
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 22:47:57 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 28, 2022 2:55:55 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up
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Post by knype on Jun 28, 2022 3:49:25 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day...
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 28, 2022 6:27:02 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... One main difference borris wrote the law borris broke the law borris lied over and over again about breaking the law Kier and Angela were campaigning at a phone bank had a meal then continued after and let's not forget they did not make the law and if charged will both resign they have also been cleared once and are only being investigated again because of the Tory press and Tory party trying to distract from boris
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 28, 2022 6:33:18 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... That sound I can hear is you...grasping desperately at straws....
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Post by knype on Jun 28, 2022 6:35:18 GMT
More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... That sound I can hear is you...grasping desperately at straws.... You can't have it both ways boys!
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Post by knype on Jun 28, 2022 6:36:04 GMT
More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... One main difference borris wrote the law borris broke the law borris lied over and over again about breaking the law Kier and Angela were campaigning at a phone bank had a meal then continued after and let's not forget they did not make the law and if charged will both resign they have also been cleared once and are only being investigated again because of the Tory press and Tory party trying to distract from boris Both lied about it, both knew it was wrong, Kier agreed to all the laws raised with covid...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 28, 2022 6:47:28 GMT
That sound I can hear is you...grasping desperately at straws.... You can't have it both ways boys! For starters, the rules had changed when Starmer was out on the road. You really should know this. Secondly, if he is given a penalty notice he will resign. Does that help explain the differences to you? (by the way I'm no fan of Starmer either.)
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 28, 2022 6:56:12 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... Starmer's declaration that he will resign if issued a FPN has killed the story stone dead (until Durham Police finish their investigation). He's laid it out pretty simply - he doesn't believe he's done anything wrong, but if issued a fine he will resign. Compare that to Johnson's denials, evasion, lies and half-truths - all of which dragged the story out far far longer and turned it into a who-dunnit. He's only got himself to blame.
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 28, 2022 7:31:27 GMT
Corruption half truths down right lies breaking the law and ignoring laws over and over again cover ups and fake news just your typical Tory government
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 28, 2022 7:56:50 GMT
You tell me. Without guns, we don’t have nearly the same amount of gun crime as the USA. Without cars, we would have no car crashes Without brexit, our economy would be far more able to deal with the inflationary problems it is facing On guns… agree On cars… stupid On Brexit. Mibbees aye, mibbes naw. As that New Statesman article said and you misrepresented. You don’t understand that the vote to leave led to the years of uncertainty and damage to the economy. You seem to think the brexit vote had nothing to do with the uncertainty since. Your opinion, but not one shared by anybody else, not even FYD i doubt!
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2022 9:18:48 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... Quite extraordinary that you would try and draw a false equivalence between a beer and a curry illegal or not and the potential of the misdirection of Millions if not Billions of Public Funds If that is truly your moral position your compass has not just lost its direction it has completely lost its dial
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 28, 2022 10:42:55 GMT
Well at least Owen Patterson should be in line for a major "bonus" for his "Consultancy" Role Excellent performance by Randox to turn a £12M loss in previous year to £275M profit in Covid Year 1 (more to come in Year 2) on the back of of £777M Government contracts Nothing to see here say the National Audit Office who found "No evidence " the contracts had been awarded inappropriately The NAO did note there were "gaps in the Audit trail" It went on to say that 60% of contracts £463.5M were awarded without competition (set your own price) under "emergency procurement rules" It found the Department of Health did not "adequately" document key decisions, nor "fully" disclose ministerial* meetings with Randox
* There is a Triumvirate Matt Hancock, "Lord" Bethell and of course Owen Patterson It's very unfortunate for the NAO that unfortunately they found "No evidence " when phones were "lost" "WhatsApp " messages "deleted" meetings "not recorded " Gillian Keegan was put in the impossible position by order of HOC to go and look for the minutes of the conference call between Patterson, Bethell and Randox which of course was never minuted, why would you incriminate yourself Keegan was eventually later forced to come back to to HOC to claim she couldn't find the minutes to howls of derision and claims of "the dog ate my homework" www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59320858.ampIf this were happening in some tinpot third world Banana Republic country we would shake our heads and not be too surprised The only difference its happening here in UK without the benefit of the Tropical Weather fullfact.org/health/test-and-trace-37-billion/How shit are the GLP, full fact uncovered the companies that were never secret and were named in the National audit office report over a year ago, it links to on page 33 of its report.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 28, 2022 11:14:21 GMT
Coming very soon. Fascism
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 28, 2022 12:00:19 GMT
She and the rest of the cabinet should be no where near a position of power.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 28, 2022 12:13:49 GMT
She and the rest of the cabinet should be no where near a position of power. I almost hope this simpering idiot gets the gig when Johnson eventually crawls back under the rock he came from just for comedy value.......
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 28, 2022 12:29:53 GMT
Corruption of the highest order if labour had done 1 percent of what this corrupt government has done then it would have been over the press for months we no longer have an independent press just a mouthpiece for the corrupt Tory party were opposition are demonized and government corruption is covered up More absolute tosh, the Starmer and Raynor investigation has been very quiet by the majority of the MSM whereas Boris was a major story day afer day... Not sure that's the case. The Daily Mail ran twelve days of front pages devoted to Starmer and Beergate. The Telegraph and Express reported on it too, not quite so obsessively. Pretty sure it was on the tv news as well. All of which are MSM. The difference is that almost every week, new revelations came out about Johnson, his family and his staff having party after party so it was a long running affair, based on the fact that there were around a dozen or so instances over a long period of time. By contrast, the Starmer/Raynor event was based on one photo of a beer after being on the campaign trail. And, as others have said, the biggest difference of all is that the two Labour figures have said they'll quit if found to have broken the law, whereas the PM and Chancellor clearly don't give a shit about law-breaking while in office.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 28, 2022 12:43:25 GMT
Boris Johnson lied
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Post by toppercorner on Jun 28, 2022 13:12:31 GMT
Today is the day, where noisy protests can now be curtailed by the police.
The right to to demonstrate/protest has been gradually taken away from us.
Another step on the road to an authoritarian state.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2022 13:12:47 GMT
Well at least Owen Patterson should be in line for a major "bonus" for his "Consultancy" Role Excellent performance by Randox to turn a £12M loss in previous year to £275M profit in Covid Year 1 (more to come in Year 2) on the back of of £777M Government contracts Nothing to see here say the National Audit Office who found "No evidence " the contracts had been awarded inappropriately The NAO did note there were "gaps in the Audit trail" It went on to say that 60% of contracts £463.5M were awarded without competition (set your own price) under "emergency procurement rules" It found the Department of Health did not "adequately" document key decisions, nor "fully" disclose ministerial* meetings with Randox
* There is a Triumvirate Matt Hancock, "Lord" Bethell and of course Owen Patterson It's very unfortunate for the NAO that unfortunately they found "No evidence " when phones were "lost" "WhatsApp " messages "deleted" meetings "not recorded " Gillian Keegan was put in the impossible position by order of HOC to go and look for the minutes of the conference call between Patterson, Bethell and Randox which of course was never minuted, why would you incriminate yourself Keegan was eventually later forced to come back to to HOC to claim she couldn't find the minutes to howls of derision and claims of "the dog ate my homework" www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59320858.ampIf this were happening in some tinpot third world Banana Republic country we would shake our heads and not be too surprised The only difference its happening here in UK without the benefit of the Tropical Weather fullfact.org/health/test-and-trace-37-billion/How shit are the GLP, full fact uncovered the companies that were never secret and were named in the National audit office report over a year ago, it links to on page 33 of its report. Are you kidding, lying for the hell of it or living in a parallel universe? For 20 months Government denied there was a secret VIP Lane It was only in October 2020 when emails were leaked to GLP proving the existence of a secret VIP Lane that the Government was forced to admit it 493 Companies were referred via the secret VIP Chanel and it statically it was 10 times more likely to receive a Government Contract via the secret VIP Channel than via conventional means In January 2022 GLP successfully brought an action in the High Court against the Government which upheld that the Government broke theLaw in operating a secret VIP Lane The NAO initial report into Government handling of the Pandemic published in May 2021 is damning However we do now know as revealed by insider Nadine Dorries that it was the Government's failure to have any pre planning which drove the chaos www.nao.org.uk/report/initial-learning-from-the-governments-response-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/Much as you'd like to imply the NAO have far from concluded its investigations of the 394 Contracts it reviewed from the secret VIP Lane Additionally there seems to be strong evidence that the Government misled the NAO in the information it provided insofar as it provide details up to the quantity it was forced to reveal after the fact and hoped the data would fit the facts This has a loooong way to run yet 👀
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